This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom

[hotdogPi]

I just figured out myself that slightly over 60% of current US routes enter the former Confederacy. I did not include West Virginia, as it split off.

[thspfc]

I just figured out myself that slightly over 60% of current US routes enter the former Confederacy. I did not include West Virginia, as it split off.

Give it a week and the L.A. Times is going to see this post and call for the decomissioning of all those US routes.

[webny99]

Mostly unrelated, I was kind of surprised recently to find out that Copenhagen is on an island.

Being a geography nerd, I found that out a long time ago now, but it's one of those things that people might go their entire life without knowing and I wouldn't really blame them. As a point of comparison, there's probably plenty of people in Europe that don't know Montreal is on an island. Then again, there's probably plenty of people in the US that don't know that, either!

[kphoger]

I'm being pedantic. The map is titled "Brazil's northernmost point is closer to every country in the Americas than to Brazil's southernmost point." Greenland isn't a country. It is a territory of Denmark. Denmark is a country in Europe, not a country in the Americas. So the wording on the map is technically correct, the best kind of correct.

And see, I was looking at it this way:  Denmark is a country that exists on two continents.  I was considering Greenland to be just as much a part of Denmark (because it's not its own country) as French Guiana is of France.

[empirestate]

I'm being pedantic. The map is titled "Brazil's northernmost point is closer to every country in the Americas than to Brazil's southernmost point." Greenland isn't a country. It is a territory of Denmark. Denmark is a country in Europe, not a country in the Americas. So the wording on the map is technically correct, the best kind of correct.

We're all being pedantic, that's the whole fun of it. :-)

But if some of the territory of the country of Denmark is in the Americas, then Denmark is a country in the Americas. It certainly wouldn't be the first example of a multi-continental country in the world, nor even in this thread.

There is a good argument to be made that Greenland is not a constituent part of Denmark in the way that French overseas departments are constituent parts of France, or that the constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands are constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, but...

And see, I was looking at it this way:  Denmark is a country that exists on two continents.  I was considering Greenland to be just as much a part of Denmark (because it's not its own country) as French Guiana is of France.

...there is also a good argument to be made (and many have made it) that, constituent or not, Greenland is indeed its own country, albeit one not totally independent of another sovereignty. Again, this certainly wouldn't be the first example of a non-sovereign country in the world–nor even in this thread. So even if Denmark doesn't qualify, Greenland might!

[qguy]

We're all being pedantic, that's the whole fun of it. :-)

This has got to be the comment of the decade. It's the entire forum in a nutshell! 

[kphoger]

there is also a good argument to be made (and many have made it) that, constituent or not, Greenland is indeed its own country, albeit one not totally independent of another sovereignty.

I'm curious to know if you would consider French Guiana to be "its own country".

[Desert Man]

there is also a good argument to be made (and many have made it) that, constituent or not, Greenland is indeed its own country, albeit one not totally independent of another sovereignty.

I believe French Guiana is the last European colony on a continent, it is officially part of the French Republic. They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others. Greenland is an island, not a continent like Australia who are a "continent-nation-state".

I'm curious to know if you would consider French Guiana to be "its own country".

[Scott5114]

They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

[hotdogPi]

They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

That would exclude Brazil.

[Scott5114]

I know, but I wasn't sure if "Latin America" was supposed to include Brazil or not.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I'm guessing the average American hears "Latin America"  and thinks of everything from Mexico down to Cape Horn regardless of political, geographical, or ethnic/language considerations.

[NWI_Irish96]

They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

Latin America includes all romance languages. Quebec is excluded by virtue of being part of a predominantly English-speaking country.

[Max Rockatansky]

They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

Latin America includes all romance languages. Quebec is excluded by virtue of being part of a predominantly English-speaking country.

But Quebec isn't even close to predominantly English speaking.  Both languages are taught in schools but French definitely is emphasized.

[NWI_Irish96]

They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

Latin America includes all romance languages. Quebec is excluded by virtue of being part of a predominantly English-speaking country.

But Quebec isn't even close to predominantly English speaking.  Both languages are taught in schools but French definitely is emphasized.

Right but Latin America is a group of countries and territories, not states or provinces, so as a part of Canada, Quebec is excluded.

[kphoger]

The term 'Latin America' is not universally defined.  It can mean one of several different things.

Ibero-America is probably what most people think of:  the Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking countries south of the USA.  Thus, it excludes small countries like Haiti and Belize and Suriname, but all the big ones are included.

If you want to include countries that were formerly part of the French empire as well (e.g. Haiti) and not make the US southern border part of the definition, then Quebec still falls outside this definition because Canada is a predominantly English-speaking nation.  In the same way, even through Brownsville (TX) is 85% Spanish-speaking, it wouldn't be part of Latin America either, by virtue of its still being in the USA.

For both of the above two definitions, the Caribbean is a bit of a fuzzy part of the map.  Is Cuba part of Latin America?  Well, probably.  But what about, say, Dominica?  Well, ummmm, errrrr, maybe??

[empirestate]

I think that at its most basic, the connotation of the term "Latin America" is really just "those parts of the Americas that are not English-speaking"–and specifically, really, those parts that are not the U.S. or Canada.

I also feel like the term refers implicitly to regions of the Americas that are comparable in geo-political extent to the U.S. and Canada–South America, Central Americas, the Caribbean–and thus, its connotation doesn't get as granular as to include either sub-national parts of those two big countries (so, not states or provinces) or sub-regional parts of the other regions (so, not individual nations in the Caribbean).

And all that because, as stated above, the term isn't really explicitly defined. Its meaning tends to fall apart once you apply it to entities smaller than it's meant to apply to, just as the measurement of a coastline falls apart once you start using a ruler or tape measure to do it. To put it another way, "Latin America" means whatever you have to decide it means, in order to confirm the term to its expected usage. :-)

[SP Cook]

IMHO, "Latin America" means the Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries and territories to the south of the USA.  It does not include Quebec, nor the remnants of the French colonial system in the Caribbean, nor places that speak languages other than Spanish or Portuguese.  Knitpicky trivia about what a romance language is or what-not is nice, but meaningless.   

[kphoger]

I think that at its most basic, the connotation of the term "Latin America" is really just "those parts of the Americas that are not English-speaking"–and specifically, really, those parts that are not the U.S. or Canada.

IMHO, "Latin America" means the Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries and territories to the south of the USA.

Yeah, I'm not sure Guyana and Suriname (location of former British and Dutch colonies, Dutch and English and English Creole widely spoken) are part of Latin America by anyone's definition.

[webny99]

Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.

[kphoger]

Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.

It's because people don't realize how far west the Atlantic coast cuts in.

The tip of the Florida panhandle, for example, is due south of Chicago.

[webny99]

Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.

It's because people don't realize how far west the Atlantic coast cuts in.

All too true. I think of Florida as being due south from here, and perhaps even south-southeast. But no. If I headed due south, I'd venture off into the Atlantic somewhere around Wilmington, NC. I know that, but it will never seem that way in my brain.

[empirestate]

I think that at its most basic, the connotation of the term "Latin America" is really just "those parts of the Americas that are not English-speaking"–and specifically, really, those parts that are not the U.S. or Canada.

IMHO, "Latin America" means the Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries and territories to the south of the USA.

Yeah, I'm not sure Guyana and Suriname (location of former British and Dutch colonies, Dutch and English and English Creole widely spoken) are part of Latin America by anyone's definition.

I am–even in the course of this discussion, I've read some definitions by which they are a part of it. But what's important to my point isn't so much the definition, but rather the connotation of the term. It doesn't seem to be applicable, at least not by intent, on such a small scale that you'd even be called on to decide whether individual countries like the Guianas are included. It describes a large region having certain broad characteristics, and those countries are indisputably physically within that region, even if they may not possess the particular attributes that are characteristic of the region as a whole.

An example of what I mean might be to consider the difference between a "sand beach" and a "rock beach". A sand beach is one composed primarily of sand, even though it might have some rocks on it; and a rock beach unquestionably has more than a few grains of sand. As you move along the coastline, you may well find yourself having clearly left behind one type of beach for the other, but you wouldn't change your description of the area you're standing in just because you found a small pocket of a different material.

[GenExpwy]

Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.

It's because people don't realize how far west the Atlantic coast cuts in.

All too true. I think of Florida as being due south from here, and perhaps even south-southeast. But no. If I headed due south, I'd venture off into the Atlantic somewhere around Wilmington, NC. I know that, but it will never seem that way in my brain.

Some of that is probably due to the projections used by the maps you look at – at the edges, north—south runs diagonally rather than vertically.

[bluecountry]

The western tip of Virginia is further west than Toledo, OH.
Because portions of the Aleutian islands extend west of 180W, Alaska is both the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state in the US.

Or Detroit.