New Jersey

[plain]

Well if you've ever driven through Hoboken, it's so congested that you can hardly get over 20mph on most streets.

THIS.

[Rothman]

Why would you need to drive through Hoboken?  All the main roads avoid it.

Also, why anyone would expect to drive through a small, dense city like that at more than 20 mph is beyond me.

[roadman65]

All the major roads do bypass Hoboken, but I seem to remember you can get to the Lincoln Tunnel from Route 139 through that city. Some use it as an alternate and at one time there was a sign at Jersey Avenue for the Lincoln Tunnel with follow up signs throughout Hoboken telling you what streets to use. Don't remember which I used except for the 14th Street Viaduct, as that does stand out from the rest.

Of course this was over thirty years ago, so traffic volumes might of increased since then, but I'm sure there are some that might use it still to avoid Route 495 through Union City.

However 20 mph is better than slow crawl on 495. So I imagine those folks aren't complaining.

[jeffandnicole]

All the major roads do bypass Hoboken, but I seem to remember you can get to the Lincoln Tunnel from Route 139 through that city. Some use it as an alternate and at one time there was a sign at Jersey Avenue for the Lincoln Tunnel with follow up signs throughout Hoboken telling you what streets to use. Don't remember which I used except for the 14th Street Viaduct, as that does stand out from the rest.

Of course this was over thirty years ago, so traffic volumes might of increased since then, but I'm sure there are some that might use it still to avoid Route 495 through Union City.

However 20 mph is better than slow crawl on 495. So I imagine those folks aren't complaining.

I had a guy in my carpool that used to get off the highway because it was congested.  He said taking all the side roads was faster.  I pointed out that he's generally doing about 25 mph on the highway in a straight path.  On the side roads he's doing about 25 mph, with several left & right turns, and constantly stopped at lights and stop signs.  When he drove, we consistently got home about 15 minutes later.

Yeah, I get it feels like someone is going slow on a congested highway because we're doing 30 or 40 below the limit. But it's still faster on average than a 25 mph roadway going 25 because there's a lot of extra stoppages to deal with.  And chances are, the mileage is actually longer.

[boilerup25]

All the major roads do bypass Hoboken, but I seem to remember you can get to the Lincoln Tunnel from Route 139 through that city. Some use it as an alternate and at one time there was a sign at Jersey Avenue for the Lincoln Tunnel with follow up signs throughout Hoboken telling you what streets to use. Don't remember which I used except for the 14th Street Viaduct, as that does stand out from the rest.

Of course this was over thirty years ago, so traffic volumes might of increased since then, but I'm sure there are some that might use it still to avoid Route 495 through Union City.

However 20 mph is better than slow crawl on 495. So I imagine those folks aren't complaining.

I had a guy in my carpool that used to get off the highway because it was congested.  He said taking all the side roads was faster.  I pointed out that he's generally doing about 25 mph on the highway in a straight path.  On the side roads he's doing about 25 mph, with several left & right turns, and constantly stopped at lights and stop signs.  When he drove, we consistently got home about 15 minutes later.

Yeah, I get it feels like someone is going slow on a congested highway because we're doing 30 or 40 below the limit. But it's still faster on average than a 25 mph roadway going 25 because there's a lot of extra stoppages to deal with.  And chances are, the mileage is actually longer.

I also remember using Hoboken as a cut-through from the NJ portal of the Lincoln Tunnel to access Jersey City when NY 9A to the Holland Tunnel and US 1-9, as well as the NJ 495 helix had major congestion. I recalled using Willow Street, 15th Street, and Madison/Monroe Street in the western half of Hoboken to then link up with Jersey City. While this potentially was slower, this ended up being a matter of perception versus reality because we felt that the Hoboken streets had an okay amount of flow compared to the alternate routes at the time which were congested (NY 9A/Holland Tunnel, NJ 495 to US 1-9). I guess perception won over in my case.

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/U5TTz9Uhap3bAWix7
Bordentown for Route 29 South?

[storm2k]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/U5TTz9Uhap3bAWix7
Bordentown for Route 29 South?

29 to 295 South or to 195 East to 206 South both bring you to Bordentown. Makes sense.

[storm2k]

All the major roads do bypass Hoboken, but I seem to remember you can get to the Lincoln Tunnel from Route 139 through that city. Some use it as an alternate and at one time there was a sign at Jersey Avenue for the Lincoln Tunnel with follow up signs throughout Hoboken telling you what streets to use. Don't remember which I used except for the 14th Street Viaduct, as that does stand out from the rest.

Of course this was over thirty years ago, so traffic volumes might of increased since then, but I'm sure there are some that might use it still to avoid Route 495 through Union City.

However 20 mph is better than slow crawl on 495. So I imagine those folks aren't complaining.

I had a guy in my carpool that used to get off the highway because it was congested.  He said taking all the side roads was faster.  I pointed out that he's generally doing about 25 mph on the highway in a straight path.  On the side roads he's doing about 25 mph, with several left & right turns, and constantly stopped at lights and stop signs.  When he drove, we consistently got home about 15 minutes later.

Yeah, I get it feels like someone is going slow on a congested highway because we're doing 30 or 40 below the limit. But it's still faster on average than a 25 mph roadway going 25 because there's a lot of extra stoppages to deal with.  And chances are, the mileage is actually longer.

I cut through Hoboken to get to the Skyway on my way to 78 to avoid the tolls on the Turnpike. No other reason for me.

[ctnaes]

Why when getting off the Delaware Memorial Bridge, the NY control city is listed under Interstate 295 & the NJTP? After all the work to complete Interstate 95 as a direct route from Philly to NY, the suggestion is still to bypass I95 and opt for 295/NJTP if traveling to NY.

[Alps]

Why when getting off the Delaware Memorial Bridge, the NY control city is listed under Interstate 295 & the NJTP? After all the work to complete Interstate 95 as a direct route from Philly to NY, the suggestion is still to bypass I95 and opt for 295/NJTP if traveling to NY.

If you're going to NY, then follow those signs. No reason to go through Philly unless you have a destination on that side.

[jeffandnicole]

Why when getting off the Delaware Memorial Bridge, the NY control city is listed under Interstate 295 & the NJTP? After all the work to complete Interstate 95 as a direct route from Philly to NY, the suggestion is still to bypass I95 and opt for 295/NJTP if traveling to NY.

Almost always, the NJ Turnpike is still the shorter and faster route.

[roadman65]

Why when getting off the Delaware Memorial Bridge, the NY control city is listed under Interstate 295 & the NJTP? After all the work to complete Interstate 95 as a direct route from Philly to NY, the suggestion is still to bypass I95 and opt for 295/NJTP if traveling to NY.

Georgia does it for Atlanta on I-75 North at I-475.  They sign Atlanta for I-475 instead of straight through I-75 through Macon.

DelDOT does it to keep I-95 for regional traffic and to allow through motorists to bypass the Philly area traffic.

[sprjus4]

Why when getting off the Delaware Memorial Bridge, the NY control city is listed under Interstate 295 & the NJTP? After all the work to complete Interstate 95 as a direct route from Philly to NY, the suggestion is still to bypass I95 and opt for 295/NJTP if traveling to NY.

The I-95 gap wasn't filled for long haul through traffic, it was to provide a more direct connection to the New Jersey Turnpike for traffic originating in the Philadelphia metro area, or vice versa. There is zero reason to follow I-95 through Philadelphia unless you want to travel through the city, the Turnpike route is more direct and faster for long haul traffic.

[The Ghostbuster]

The Interstate 95 gap should have been filled long before its completion in 2018. It shouldn't have taken 35 years (1983-2018) to complete the 95 gap.

[SignBridge]

The Interstate 95 gap should have been filled long before its completion in 2018. It shouldn't have taken 35 years (1983-2018) to complete the 95 gap.

It took longer than that. I found out the hard way enroute to Phila. in 1976 how I couldn't transition from the Penn. Tpk westbound to I-95 southbound. I couldn't believe there was no interchange there. In New York State there would have been an interchange.

[plain]

Even if the original intended path of I-95 was completed, I believe that many long distance travelers (and especially trucks) would still use the Turnpike, simply to avoid having to go through Philly. Unless of course they're just that determined to shunpike.

[roadman65]

The Interstate 95 gap should have been filled long before its completion in 2018. It shouldn't have taken 35 years (1983-2018) to complete the 95 gap.

It took longer than that. I found out the hard way enroute to Phila. in 1976 how I couldn't transition from the Penn. Tpk westbound to I-95 southbound. I couldn't believe there was no interchange there. In New York State there would have been an interchange.

Ohio once didn't have an interchange with I-75 and the Ohio Turnpike.  Still the PA Turnpike lacks no interchange with I-70 at Breezewood,I-81 at Carlisle, I-99 at Bedford, and US 219 at Somerset.

[Stephane Dumas]

The Interstate 95 gap should have been filled long before its completion in 2018. It shouldn't have taken 35 years (1983-2018) to complete the 95 gap.

It took longer than that. I found out the hard way enroute to Phila. in 1976 how I couldn't transition from the Penn. Tpk westbound to I-95 southbound. I couldn't believe there was no interchange there. In New York State there would have been an interchange.

Ohio once didn't have an interchange with I-75 and the Ohio Turnpike.  Still the PA Turnpike lacks no interchange with I-70 at Breezewood,I-81 at Carlisle, I-99 at Bedford, and US 219 at Somerset.

And Ohio didn't have an interchange with I-77 and OH Tpk either. And don't forget the NE Extension lack no interchange with I-80.

[storm2k]

There's a simple reason that there weren't interstate to toll road interchanges in many of these places.

From our friends at the FHWA talking about Breezewood:

> This peculiar arrangement occurred because of Section 113 of the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956. Under Section 113(b), Federal-aid funds could be used for approaches to any toll road, bridge, or tunnel "to a point where such project will have some use irrespective of its use for such toll road, bridge, or tunnel." In other words, a motorist could use the toll facility or not. Under Section 113 (c), the State highway agency and toll authority could use Federal-aid highway funds to build an interchange between a toll-free Interstate and an Interstate turnpike (i.e., the motorist would have no choice but to use the toll road). However, the State highway agency, the toll authority, and the BPR would have to enter into an agreement to stop collecting tolls when the bonds were retired.

> The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission (PTC), which had no desire to stop collecting tolls, decided not to use the State's Federal-aid funds for the I-70 connection. The PTC also decided against using its own revenue for the interchanges.

It's why the interchange between 80 and the NE Extension technically goes thru an intermediary road. That was also evident in the interchange between 84 and the NY Thruway for so many years. That law has since been modified to allow this, obviously, but these are vestiges of it.

[SignBridge]

The New York Thruway, a toll road with Interstate designations had some interchanges connecting with toll-free interstates as far back as 1960. Notably in Westchester County, the Cross-Westchester Expwy, (I-287) connected at both ends with the NY Thruway main-line and the New England Thruway. And the Thruway Authority has never stopped collecting tolls.

[vdeane]

^ NY might have decided to build/modify the interchanges without federal help (usually modify, but exit 36 was mostly replaced, exit 34A was new build, and exits 39 and 24 were eventually replaced; exit 25A actually did involve federal funds, along with widening the Thruway there, which is why there are some free movements in the area).  It's weird they didn't with exit 17 until recently, doubly so given that NYSTA maintained I-84 for a while.  The direct connection didn't open until around the time that I-84 was returned to NYSDOT.  Irony.

[SignBridge]

^ NY might have decided to build/modify the interchanges without federal help (usually modify, but exit 36 was mostly replaced, exit 34A was new build, and exits 39 and 24 were eventually replaced; exit 25A actually did involve federal funds, along with widening the Thruway there, which is why there are some free movements in the area).  It's weird they didn't with exit 17 until recently, doubly so given that NYSTA maintained I-84 for a while.  The direct connection didn't open until around the time that I-84 was returned to NYSDOT.  Irony.

Yes, exactly! Thruway Auth. was apparently willing to pay for these interchanges themselves. My point is that if NYSTA could do it, then so could the Penn. Tpke. Commission with I-95 near Phila. I keep hearing that they couldn't do it because of the Federal law but obviously it could have been done if they wanted to. I will forever fault them for not building said interchange when I-95 was built. There is no excuse for them not having built it!

[vdeane]

Yes, exactly! Thruway Auth. was apparently willing to pay for these interchanges themselves. My point is that if NYSTA could do it, then so could the Penn. Tpke. Commission with I-95 near Phila. I keep hearing that they couldn't do it because of the Federal law but obviously it could have been done if they wanted to. I will forever fault them for not building said interchange when I-95 was built. There is no excuse for them not having built it!

NYSDOT too.  The jurisdiction at most of the interchanges changes where the toll barriers were, and most of them were at the locations of interchanges with local roads where the ramps on the local side were redirected.  Of course, NYSTA would have had to have been involved in 39, 36, and 34A (and 17, though that came later).

[jeffandnicole]

^ NY might have decided to build/modify the interchanges without federal help (usually modify, but exit 36 was mostly replaced, exit 34A was new build, and exits 39 and 24 were eventually replaced; exit 25A actually did involve federal funds, along with widening the Thruway there, which is why there are some free movements in the area).  It's weird they didn't with exit 17 until recently, doubly so given that NYSTA maintained I-84 for a while.  The direct connection didn't open until around the time that I-84 was returned to NYSDOT.  Irony.

Yes, exactly! Thruway Auth. was apparently willing to pay for these interchanges themselves. My point is that if NYSTA could do it, then so could the Penn. Tpke. Commission with I-95 near Phila. I keep hearing that they couldn't do it because of the Federal law but obviously it could have been done if they wanted to. I will forever fault them for not building said interchange when I-95 was built. There is no excuse for them not having built it!

They could have, but then that's money that wouldn't have gone to other PA Turnpike improvements people would've complained are needed.

[roadman65]

The Interstate 95 gap should have been filled long before its completion in 2018. It shouldn't have taken 35 years (1983-2018) to complete the 95 gap.

It took longer than that. I found out the hard way enroute to Phila. in 1976 how I couldn't transition from the Penn. Tpk westbound to I-95 southbound. I couldn't believe there was no interchange there. In New York State there would have been an interchange.

Ohio once didn't have an interchange with I-75 and the Ohio Turnpike.  Still the PA Turnpike lacks no interchange with I-70 at Breezewood,I-81 at Carlisle, I-99 at Bedford, and US 219 at Somerset.

And Ohio didn't have an interchange with I-77 and OH Tpk either. And don't forget the NE Extension lack no interchange with I-80.

And IL didn't have one with I-57 and I-294 ( Tri State Tollway) originally.