Hockey

[KeithE4Phx]

Looks like the Arizona Coyotes' days in Phoenix may be numbered.  Voters in Tempe soundly rejected the three propositions that would have allowed a new hockey arena, among other things, to be built.

They still have three years left on their lease with Arizona State (two guaranteed and one at mutual option), but I won't be shocked if that's cancelled.  The hockey fan base in metro Phoenix is in the southeast Valley (Mesa/Gilbert) with all the retirees from the Midwest and Canada.  But no way will the taxpayers of Mesa or Gilbert stand for paying for a private business' hockey arena.  We just don't do that here, unlike Phoenix and Glendale. 

This franchise has been a disaster ever since it moved from Winnipeg in 1996, with one bad owner after another.  Wayne Gretzky as coach couldn't resurrect this disaster.  They're the Oakland A's of hockey, and it's time for them to go.  Most likely to Houston unless Atlanta's fool enough to try a third time.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-southeast-valley/tempe/measures-denied-to-bring-a-new-arena-entertainment-district-to-tempe

[LilianaUwU]

They're the Oakland A's of hockey, and it's time for them to go.  Most likely to Houston unless Atlanta's fool enough to try a third time.

Québec City enters the chat.

[1995hoo]

They're the Oakland A's of hockey, and it's time for them to go.  Most likely to Houston unless Atlanta's fool enough to try a third time.

Québec City enters the chat.

Kansas City has been mentioned for several years as well (Pittsburgh was close to moving there about 20 years ago) and now there's some buzz about Salt Lake City being interested. Assuming Atlanta is not an option, Quebec and Salt Lake City seem like the longest shots of the remaining four. A move to Houston or Kansas City wouldn't even require realigning the divisions.

A bit over 40 years ago there was talk of either the Blues or the Capitals moving to Saskatoon, but that's one city you don't hear anything about anymore.

[SP Cook]

IMHO,

Quebec City has zero shot.  It is just too small a market, 840K metro.   The US$ and the C$ fluctuate against one another.   There will be a time when the US is doing a lot better than Canada, and since Canadian teams take in C$ and pay out US$, unless you have a business plan that works in that situation, you don't have a plan.  Further, the NHL conferences work perfectly, with the Eastern being 100% in the ETZ, and the Western being the other 3.  Detroit or Columbus are not going to want to move to the west, as it devalues their TV rights greatly, as they would play three times the away games with late night local starts. 

Atlanta is a non-starter as well.  Yes, I hear all the arguments that hockey failed not from lack of fans but because of the building.  Whatever.  Fact is it won't work there. 

Kansas City is a good, if small, market without an indoor sport.  It has a solid arena that is only 15 years old.  It could work.

SLC is the same, and the fastest growing metro in the country.  But it has the NBA.  Some cities can only have one arena sport, and SLC seems to still be in that size group right now.  See me in 20 years. 

Houston has similar issues to Atlanta.  Look at the non-traditional places where hockey has worked.  I will use Columbus, Raleigh, and Nashville.  No NBA team.  Fairly compact urban core.  And, and this important, a huge college sports culture that move-ins especially northern move-ins cannot really be a part of, so the NHL is there for them.  Well, yeah, Houston is like that too, but it has the NBA, and the other two sports as well, and it is really spread out.

And that is one of the things to get here.  A big part of why Phoenix failed is the spread out nature of these types of cities.  You don't grow up, you grow out.  That makes transportation very important, and finding that sweet spot where an arena can work is important, and it seems that Phoenix really doesn't have one.

[1995hoo]

.... Detroit or Columbus are not going to want to move to the west, as it devalues their TV rights greatly, as they would play three times the away games with late night local starts. 

....

Another reason for not moving Columbus is that the league specifically put them in the Metropolitan Division to try to create a rivalry with Pittsburgh due to their relative proximity to each other. There were also some reports that another motivation was to give the Blue Jackets a boost at the gate because they were struggling with poor attendance and the league figured Pittsburgh fans would travel to Columbus to see their team play. It's questionable how effective that really is under the current scheduling model where a team gets either two or three home games a year against a divisional opponent–sure, you'd get a bump for those two or three games, but that seems minor when you play 41 home games a season. (In the first season with the current alignment, Columbus and Pittsburgh also met in the playoffs, but you can't count on that happening every year.) On the other hand, when the NFL realigned into eight divisions they scheduled the NFC East to play the NFC West in the first season in part to help the Arizona Cardinals compensate for losing the once-a-year attendance bump that came from having Dallas in their division, so who knows.

[NWI_Irish96]

Largest metro areas not in Eastern Time Zone that don't already have a team:

Houston
San Diego
Portland
San Antonio
Kansas City
Austin

I'm not sure an NHL team works in any of those places. Houston is probably the best shot.

[hotdogPi]

While it's not large, what about Boise? It has no professional sports teams at all, so there would be less competition between sports. Its fanbase would include Spokane (larger than you think), the western half of Montana (which is the more populated half), and because Salt Lake City doesn't have a team, possibly them.

[1995hoo]

While it's not large, what about Boise? It has no professional sports teams at all, so there would be less competition between sports. Its fanbase would include Spokane (larger than you think), the western half of Montana (which is the more populated half), and because Salt Lake City doesn't have a team, possibly them.

By all accounts, hockey is the most gate-dependent of the four major North American pro sports leagues. I'd question whether Boise could generate the sort of attendance needed to make a team work there. Boise State football draws well, but college football is different because for the most part it's a weekend event with a maximum of seven games per season. NHL teams sometimes have four games a week. (I made it to 40 Capitals regular-season home games in the 2009—2010 season, missing one only because of a blizzard. Some weeks it felt like I was living at Verizon Center.) When the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg, Gary Bettman was quite adamant that the only way the move would work financially was if every game sold out, especially because at the time Winnipeg had the smallest arena in the league. The same would be all the more true of Boise, but how plausible is it that anyone from Salt Lake City or Montana could routinely make that trip for weeknight games? You're talking a long way to go. (I've driven 140 miles each way for Hershey Bears playoff games–and will hopefully get to do so sometime in the next few weeks!–but I won't do it on a weeknight.)

[SP Cook]

Boise is TV market #98, just ahead of Elkhart IN, and just behind NW Arkansas.  0.24% of the nation's TV homes.  The Boise metro area is just under 760K, that is #75, just ahead of Stockton, CA and just behind Charleston, SC. 

That is 100s of 1000s of people short of enough. 

[abefroman329]

Atlanta's fool enough to try a third time

Atlanta has now had three pro hockey teams:

The Flames (moved to Calgary)
The Knights (folded around the time the Hawks moved out of The Omni, IIRC)
The Thrashers (moved to Winnipeg)

They're not getting a fourth chance.

[Henry]

Largest metro areas not in Eastern Time Zone that don't already have a team:

Houston
San Diego
Portland
San Antonio
Kansas City
Austin

I'm not sure an NHL team works in any of those places. Houston is probably the best shot.

Kansas City had the Scouts (became the Colorado Rockies, then the New Jersey Devils), and needless to say, it didn't work out for them. And besides, it is more focused on landing an NBA team. Out of all the other cities mentioned above, I say Houston is the most ideal spot for an NHL franchise, and given the arena woes in the Phoenix area, don't be surprised if the Coyotes announce their relocation to Space City.

Look at Dallas, for example: When the former Minnesota North Stars moved there 30 years ago, many people said that it wouldn't work there. But the Stars won a Stanley Cup in six years, and they've managed to carve out a nice fanbase to balance out with that of the NBA Mavericks...and as for Minnesota, it has the Wild, so something good came out of this. So Houston has a good chance of replicating Dallas' good fortune.

[1995hoo]

Houston was noted for excellent support of the WHA's Aeros, though of course that was 45 to 50 years ago.

[KeithE4Phx]

Atlanta's fool enough to try a third time

Atlanta has now had three pro hockey teams:

The Flames (moved to Calgary)
The Knights (folded around the time the Hawks moved out of The Omni, IIRC)
The Thrashers (moved to Winnipeg)

They're not getting a fourth chance.

The Atlanta Knights were a minor league team in the IHL, not the NHL or WHA.  They moved to Quebec City in 1996.  In any case, they don't count.

[epzik8]

It's high time to talk about the impending Florida-Vegas Cup Final.

[ran4sh]

They're the Oakland A's of hockey, and it's time for them to go.  Most likely to Houston unless Atlanta's fool enough to try a third time.

Québec City enters the chat.

Kansas City has been mentioned for several years as well (Pittsburgh was close to moving there about 20 years ago) and now there's some buzz about Salt Lake City being interested. Assuming Atlanta is not an option, Quebec and Salt Lake City seem like the longest shots of the remaining four. A move to Houston or Kansas City wouldn't even require realigning the divisions.

A bit over 40 years ago there was talk of either the Blues or the Capitals moving to Saskatoon, but that's one city you don't hear anything about anymore.

I think even if Phx did move to Atlanta they could still keep the divisions. Sure, Atlanta is on ET, but it's not like an existing Eastern Conference team would be moved west to make room for Atlanta, plus the nearest other team would be Nashville which is already Western Conference. (And the new Atlanta team would get the Winnipeg Thrashers in its division)

[Big John]

One consideration was that Atlanta had a terrible ownership group the last time.  If they can prove that the proposed ownership is strong they have a chance.

[Ted$8roadFan]

You would think that if Atlanta can become a soccer town, it could also support an NHL team.

[hotdogPi]

You would think that if Atlanta can become a soccer town, it could also support an NHL team.

Why do you think this? Ice hockey is much more popular in colder climates.

[Ted$8roadFan]

You would think that if Atlanta can become a soccer town, it could also support an NHL team.

Why do you think this? Ice hockey is much more popular in colder climates.

And yet the Stanley Cup Finals this year will be played in Florida and in either Dallas or Las Vegas.

[Henry]

You would think that if Atlanta can become a soccer town, it could also support an NHL team.

Why do you think this? Ice hockey is much more popular in colder climates.

And yet the Stanley Cup Finals this year will be Florida and either Dallas or Las Vegas.

And previously it has been won by the likes of the Lightning, Hurricanes and Kings.

[amroad17]

As long as the temperature of the arena is not above 60-65 degrees Fahrenheit and the air conditioning works, ice hockey can be played in the warmer climates.  The NHL does not ever want a repeat of the 1975 Stanley Cup Finals between the Buffalo Sabres and the defending champion, and eventual repeat Stanley Cup winner, Philadelphia Flyers.

In Game 3 of this series, the area covering the ice in the old Memorial Auditorium in Buffalo became enshrouded in fog because of the unusually warm weather in the Buffalo area (it was May) and because the venue did not have an air conditioning system.  The ice became a bit slushy, making it harder to skate, meaning shift rotations went quicker than they normally would.  Vision was very poor as spectators could not see the players, the officials, and the puck–they could only hear the skating and the puck hitting the sticks.  The players could see some although on the goal scored in OT by Buffalo, Bernie Parent, the goaltender for Philadelphia, did not even move as he did not see the puck coming toward him.  During stoppages in play, rink and arena employees would skate around the ice waving bedsheets in an attempt to dispel the fog.  Couple this with an incident that occurred before the fog started in which a bat continually flew throughout the arena, buzzing players and spectators until a Sabres player swung at it with his stick and killed it, and this had the makings of "what can go wrong, will go wrong ".

[Stephane Dumas]

As long as the temperature of the arena is not above 60-65 degrees Fahrenheit and the air conditioning works, ice hockey can be played in the warmer climates.  The NHL does not ever want a repeat of the 1975 Stanley Cup Finals between the Buffalo Sabres and the defending champion, and eventual repeat Stanley Cup winner, Philadelphia Flyers.

In Game 3 of this series, the area covering the ice in the old Memorial Auditorium in Buffalo became enshrouded in fog because of the unusually warm weather in the Buffalo area (it was May) and because the venue did not have an air conditioning system.  The ice became a bit slushy, making it harder to skate, meaning shift rotations went quicker than they normally would.  Vision was very poor as spectators could not see the players, the officials, and the puck–they could only hear the skating and the puck hitting the sticks.  The players could see some although on the goal scored in OT by Buffalo, Bernie Parent, the goaltender for Philadelphia, did not even move as he did not see the puck coming toward him.  During stoppages in play, rink and arena employees would skate around the ice waving bedsheets in an attempt to dispel the fog.  Couple this with an incident that occurred before the fog started in which a bat continually flew throughout the arena, buzzing players and spectators until a Sabres player swung at it with his stick and killed it, and this had the makings of "what can go wrong, will go wrong ".

Some claimed then that bat cursed the Sabres. On the other hand, if it was a player of the Flyers who had hit the bat, who knows?

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

As long as the temperature of the arena is not above 60-65 degrees Fahrenheit and the air conditioning works, ice hockey can be played in the warmer climates.  The NHL does not ever want a repeat of the 1975 Stanley Cup Finals between the Buffalo Sabres and the defending champion, and eventual repeat Stanley Cup winner, Philadelphia Flyers.

In Game 3 of this series, the area covering the ice in the old Memorial Auditorium in Buffalo became enshrouded in fog because of the unusually warm weather in the Buffalo area (it was May) and because the venue did not have an air conditioning system.  The ice became a bit slushy, making it harder to skate, meaning shift rotations went quicker than they normally would.  Vision was very poor as spectators could not see the players, the officials, and the puck–they could only hear the skating and the puck hitting the sticks.  The players could see some although on the goal scored in OT by Buffalo, Bernie Parent, the goaltender for Philadelphia, did not even move as he did not see the puck coming toward him.  During stoppages in play, rink and arena employees would skate around the ice waving bedsheets in an attempt to dispel the fog.  Couple this with an incident that occurred before the fog started in which a bat continually flew throughout the arena, buzzing players and spectators until a Sabres player swung at it with his stick and killed it, and this had the makings of "what can go wrong, will go wrong ".

Buffalo wasn't the only one with this problem. The old Boston Gardens ice surface would develop fog as well.

[ET21]

Panthers/Knights for the Cup Final

[Ted$8roadFan]

Former Bruins/current Golden Knights Head Coach Bruce Cassidy is in the Stanley Cup Finals, just one year after being fired by the former, and a few weeks after his old team were bounced from the playoffs after having a historic regular season by his current Cup opponent. It would seem the Bruins are now perpetually cursed.