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Author Topic: New Jersey Turnpike  (Read 1104342 times)

roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4600 on: October 30, 2022, 07:59:15 AM »

Spurs are really roads that branch off the main road.  The terminology is erroneous here as nether one branches off to different directions.

Yes living in NJ I know they commonly use the “ Spur” name and it’s been the way of life here and we all seem to catch the fever.

Just like calling an interstate a “Route” over the I prefix.  We call I-287 “Route 287” as well as Route 80 for I-80.  That is why the Garden State wants no duplicate route numbers on their primary routes do to no one looking at the designation as part of the calling.  Another way of life for New Jersians.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 08:04:18 AM by roadman65 »
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4601 on: October 30, 2022, 08:22:22 AM »

I've done that. When I first realized the truck spurs were faster I switched over via one of the service areas. However, I have only driven in the cars spur since after a piece of cargo/degree came loose from a truck and came flying into my windshield, cracking it.

I'm gonna take a moment to clarify some terminology (which probably will probably nitpick, but this is what I know them as)...

The "spurs" specifically refer to the split roadways north of Newark, where one branch goes east of downtown Secaucus and the other goes west. These are the eastern and western spurs. (history lesson: The eastern spur was the original built in 1952, the western was built in 1971).

From Newark south to Exit 6, its just the "car lanes' and  the "truck lanes" (officially just referred to as the inner and outer roadways).

Then there's the Newark Bay-Hudson County Extension (I-78) and the Pennsylvania Extension (the I-95 link to Philly and the PA Turnpike).
No, the Easterly and Westerly Alignments are not spurs. Everyone just calls them that. (:

Including me.  What does the NJTA call them?  Refresh my memory.

What he said - Alignments.

The "spur" terminology made (and still makes) sense if you are looking solely at the ticket toll system, which ends at 18E and 18W on each spur.  Ticket toll roads tend to number things via their ticket system - that's why northbound, 46 has no number (it is part of 18E/W as far as the NJTA is concerned). Also why there's no number for 140/540 (its outside the ticket system). And also why the supposed "6A" (130) isn't signed with its number (its part of 6 as far as NJTA is concerned).

Southbound, 46 has a number (68) because it was part of NJDOT's I-95 section - jurisdiction ended at 46.

When the turnpike goes cashless, it might be useful to finally remedy all these unnumbered exits. Then again, maybe no one cares.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4602 on: October 30, 2022, 10:02:10 AM »

I've done that. When I first realized the truck spurs were faster I switched over via one of the service areas. However, I have only driven in the cars spur since after a piece of cargo/degree came loose from a truck and came flying into my windshield, cracking it.

I'm gonna take a moment to clarify some terminology (which probably will probably nitpick, but this is what I know them as)...

The "spurs" specifically refer to the split roadways north of Newark, where one branch goes east of downtown Secaucus and the other goes west. These are the eastern and western spurs. (history lesson: The eastern spur was the original built in 1952, the western was built in 1971).

From Newark south to Exit 6, its just the "car lanes' and  the "truck lanes" (officially just referred to as the inner and outer roadways).

Then there's the Newark Bay-Hudson County Extension (I-78) and the Pennsylvania Extension (the I-95 link to Philly and the PA Turnpike).
No, the Easterly and Westerly Alignments are not spurs. Everyone just calls them that. (:

Including me.  What does the NJTA call them?  Refresh my memory.

What he said - Alignments.

The "spur" terminology made (and still makes) sense if you are looking solely at the ticket toll system, which ends at 18E and 18W on each spur.  Ticket toll roads tend to number things via their ticket system - that's why northbound, 46 has no number (it is part of 18E/W as far as the NJTA is concerned). Also why there's no number for 140/540 (its outside the ticket system). And also why the supposed "6A" (130) isn't signed with its number (its part of 6 as far as NJTA is concerned).

Southbound, 46 has a number (68) because it was part of NJDOT's I-95 section - jurisdiction ended at 46.

When the turnpike goes cashless, it might be useful to finally remedy all these unnumbered exits. Then again, maybe no one cares.
I would imagine it all gets done at the same time if or when the system goes mile based.

roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4603 on: October 30, 2022, 05:39:04 PM »

I've done that. When I first realized the truck spurs were faster I switched over via one of the service areas. However, I have only driven in the cars spur since after a piece of cargo/degree came loose from a truck and came flying into my windshield, cracking it.

I'm gonna take a moment to clarify some terminology (which probably will probably nitpick, but this is what I know them as)...

The "spurs" specifically refer to the split roadways north of Newark, where one branch goes east of downtown Secaucus and the other goes west. These are the eastern and western spurs. (history lesson: The eastern spur was the original built in 1952, the western was built in 1971).

From Newark south to Exit 6, its just the "car lanes' and  the "truck lanes" (officially just referred to as the inner and outer roadways).

Then there's the Newark Bay-Hudson County Extension (I-78) and the Pennsylvania Extension (the I-95 link to Philly and the PA Turnpike).
No, the Easterly and Westerly Alignments are not spurs. Everyone just calls them that. (:

Including me.  What does the NJTA call them?  Refresh my memory.

What he said - Alignments.

The "spur" terminology made (and still makes) sense if you are looking solely at the ticket toll system, which ends at 18E and 18W on each spur.  Ticket toll roads tend to number things via their ticket system - that's why northbound, 46 has no number (it is part of 18E/W as far as the NJTA is concerned). Also why there's no number for 140/540 (its outside the ticket system). And also why the supposed "6A" (130) isn't signed with its number (its part of 6 as far as NJTA is concerned).

Southbound, 46 has a number (68) because it was part of NJDOT's I-95 section - jurisdiction ended at 46.

When the turnpike goes cashless, it might be useful to finally remedy all these unnumbered exits. Then again, maybe no one cares.

You know I never really thought of that analogy, but it does make sense. 18W is the plaza where tickets are surrendered or obtained next to the Sports Complex. 18E shares the Secaucus Plaza with 16E so in essence, they both are spurs as far as the tolling system goes.
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4604 on: October 30, 2022, 06:14:02 PM »

Is there now an 87c toll north of exit 16. I got that in the mail once despite entering at 16 and only going north
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4605 on: October 30, 2022, 07:24:51 PM »

Is there now an 87c toll north of exit 16. I got that in the mail once despite entering at 16 and only going north

Yes, you still pay the toll if entering at 16 and going north.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4606 on: October 30, 2022, 07:27:26 PM »

Yet there's still a sign that says "TOLL FREE KEEP MOVING"

What con-artists lol

Where?  I don't remember such a sign. Can you show me on Google street view?
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4607 on: October 30, 2022, 08:49:12 PM »

Is there now an 87c toll north of exit 16. I got that in the mail once despite entering at 16 and only going north

Interesting, I can't seem to find the sign with street view. It's been a while since I've been on the Turnpike, so maybe they did remove it, but I think I still saw the sign after I got an 87c bill at least one time.

For cash tollpayers, all toll amounts end in 5 or 0. And if you went thru a toll without paying, they add a $50 violation fee onto the bill.

Thus, if you got an 87 cent toll letter, it didn't come from the NJ Turnpike.
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MultiMillionMiler

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4608 on: October 30, 2022, 08:57:50 PM »

That's really weird, I could have sworn it said something like 16E or 16X. Wonder what it was.
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lstone19

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4609 on: October 30, 2022, 09:27:12 PM »

Is there now an 87c toll north of exit 16. I got that in the mail once despite entering at 16 and only going north

I'm completely confused by what you're asking. There is no 16. There's 16E and 16W. You can't enter at 16E and go north and the toll from 16W to 18W is $1.51 EZ-Pass off-peak and higher for others. So $0.87 makes no sense.

If you enter at 17 (the to/from the north complement to 16E), there's no toll entering northbound but a double-toll ($2.90 and higher) exiting southbound. Given your later reference to a "TOLL FREE KEEP MOVING" sign (which is probably on the northbound entrance ramp), you appear to have 17 confused with whatever your mystery $0.87 is.

But I think I figured out your mystery $0.87. That's the tolls-by-mail toll between NY Thruway exits 16 and 17.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4610 on: October 30, 2022, 09:32:26 PM »

Is there now an 87c toll north of exit 16. I got that in the mail once despite entering at 16 and only going north
But I think I figured out your mystery $0.87. That's the tolls-by-mail toll between NY Thruway exits 16 and 17.

That makes much more sense.
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MultiMillionMiler

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4611 on: October 30, 2022, 09:38:39 PM »

It probably was that, that's where the 16 came from then. I have done that route.

The Turnpike entrance I was referring to was the entrance from NJ 495 West to I-95 North (Eastern Spur).
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4612 on: October 30, 2022, 09:42:03 PM »

It probably was that, that's where the 16 came from then. I have done that route.

The Turnpike entrance I was referring to was the entrance from NJ 495 West to I-95 North (Eastern Spur).

That's 17, technically. 16E is only from/to the south, 17 is from/to the north.  Confusing, I know.
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MultiMillionMiler

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4613 on: October 30, 2022, 09:44:49 PM »

Although I still couldn't find the sign when I checked Google Street view earlier. Weird.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4614 on: October 30, 2022, 09:46:15 PM »

It probably was that, that's where the 16 came from then. I have done that route.

The Turnpike entrance I was referring to was the entrance from NJ 495 West to I-95 North (Eastern Spur).

That's 17, technically. 16E is only from/to the south, 17 is from/to the north.  Confusing, I know.

That's because the ticket system covers only 16E and not 17.   17 is a cash toll, formerly two ways, but converted to SB only.  If the ticket system extended up north of Exit 17, then 17 would be 16E as well.

What is more confusing is the 19W thing. Yes its north of 18W, but there is no 19E on the Eastern Spur, so no need the have a W with 19.  Just like there is no E on 17, because the Western Spur has no 17 to conflict with.   
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 09:48:16 PM by roadman65 »
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4615 on: October 30, 2022, 09:52:30 PM »

My brain just got even more scrambled LOL

Another question about the Turnpike. Those U turn ramps, could they theoretically be used to avoid tolls. I know your ticket specifies what direction you initially got on, so if you get off at a toll booth in the opposite direction you get charged the full amount for both ways, but what if for example, for a joyride, I drove from say, I-278 to a U turn area further south, say between exits 6 and 7, then drove all the way back up north to another U turn area, to end up back on the southbound side, and got off at exit 10. Even though I went from exits 13 to 6, from 6 to U-trun area, and back south to 10, there's no way they would know that I made 2 U turns vs just going from Exits 13 to 10 directly. Of course this wouldn't get you anywhere, but you could avoid a higher toll if you just wanted to drive on the Turnpike without getting off.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4616 on: October 30, 2022, 10:22:17 PM »

My brain just got even more scrambled LOL

Another question about the Turnpike. Those U turn ramps, could they theoretically be used to avoid tolls. I know your ticket specifies what direction you initially got on, so if you get off at a toll booth in the opposite direction you get charged the full amount for both ways, but what if for example, for a joyride, I drove from say, I-278 to a U turn area further south, say between exits 6 and 7, then drove all the way back up north to another U turn area, to end up back on the southbound side, and got off at exit 10. Even though I went from exits 13 to 6, from 6 to U-trun area, and back south to 10, there's no way they would know that I made 2 U turns vs just going from Exits 13 to 10 directly. Of course this wouldn't get you anywhere, but you could avoid a higher toll if you just wanted to drive on the Turnpike without getting off.

You're a bit confused about the NJ Turnpike.

Here's what a toll ticket looks like (the rates on this one appears to be several years old, but the ticket structure itself hasn't changed). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_Jersey_Turnpike_ticket.jpg .  There's no direction printed on the ticket. When you enter the Turnpike from a ramp, you're not choosing the direction first then getting the ticket.  You get the ticket and then choose the ramp you need to take: North or South.

You could take a u-turn ramp to change course, but as mentioned since the toll ticket doesn't show a direction.  If you entered at 278, drove south, made a u-turn, then exited at any exit northbound, you'll pay the amount as shown on the ticket. Similar to above, you exit the turnpike, and the ramps merge before the toll plaza.

Also, in case you're wondering, toll takers are not paying attention to traffic coming towards them, so they're not going to watch to see what ramp you're on before you get to the toll plaza.

The only time you'll be charged the highest fare is if you make a u-turn and exit at the same plaza you entered on.  When that happens, you're charged the highest fare, not the full amount for both directions. Looking at that toll ticket I linked above, the highest fare for cars based on that entry point is $5.50, and that's what you'll be charged.

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4617 on: October 30, 2022, 10:53:23 PM »

Then why do they warn about U turns resulting in the highest toll on the ticket?
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4618 on: October 30, 2022, 11:03:30 PM »

Also if you get on at 16 E to go south and u turn in Elizabeth and return north to use the other Spur and exit at 18W, you’ll be charged highest fare as well.

The 16E ticket has No U Turns listed in the price of not only Exit 16E, but  16W, 18E, and 18W as well because there is no way to reach those exits from that entry point going one way.

Then why do they warn about U turns resulting in the highest toll on the ticket?

Because u turns are illegal.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4619 on: October 30, 2022, 11:53:27 PM »

Then why do they warn about U turns resulting in the highest toll on the ticket?

Partially a scare tactic. There's no actual way to monitor it, unless you exit at the interchange you entered.

Of course, if a State Trooper sees you doing it, the fine and points will be much greater than the highest fare on that ticket.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4620 on: October 31, 2022, 08:28:14 AM »

Also I find it interesting that Exits 18E&W both use the same line on the tickets. Two separate interchanges, but treated as one on the ticket.


If you get on at 16W, being you can go north to 18W, that has the same line as 18E, you can go south, make an illegal u turn, and use the eastern spur to Exit 18E and not get charged the high fare cause itís on the ticket as a part of 18W.   Though the collector at 18E will notice the 16W entry point, which should send up a flag to him or her, Iím sure the cash handler is not given the authority to charge that high fare for a u turn.
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4621 on: October 31, 2022, 11:03:13 AM »

So I guess those U turn ramps are for emergencies only, or for law enforcement only? I wasn't sure if the exit plazas are direction specific, but it they don't know which side of the entrance plaza you got on, they couldn't know what direction you headed toward the exit plaza. But if you took 2 hours to drive 3 exits, they would suspect you of making a U turn cause it shouldn't take that long. But then again the rest areas..
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4622 on: October 31, 2022, 11:15:50 AM »

Also I find it interesting that Exits 18E&W both use the same line on the tickets. Two separate interchanges, but treated as one on the ticket.


If you get on at 16W, being you can go north to 18W, that has the same line as 18E, you can go south, make an illegal u turn, and use the eastern spur to Exit 18E and not get charged the high fare cause itís on the ticket as a part of 18W.   Though the collector at 18E will notice the 16W entry point, which should send up a flag to him or her, Iím sure the cash handler is not given the authority to charge that high fare for a u turn.

So what happens to people who have entered the 20th century and use E-ZPass (no tickets)?
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4623 on: October 31, 2022, 11:54:00 AM »

So I guess those U turn ramps are for emergencies only, or for law enforcement only?

Yes, as on just about every limited access highway, the U-turn ramps and median cutouts are for emergency and law enforcement use only. If you don't know that, you shouldn't be driving.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #4624 on: October 31, 2022, 11:58:40 AM »

I knew the median breaks were for emergency only, but for the U turn areas, I figured that's just a way for them to charge you an extra toll should you ever have to use them.
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