New Jersey Turnpike

[jeffandnicole]

^ There's definitely no double charging that I'm aware of...

The double charging is when you have to pay much more to go 10 miles on the northern end, while paying less to go triple that distance on the southern end. If you support commuters getting a break, why should the northern stretch charge you more? Either do it by mile, by exit, or only in the north, but not the whole length while also more in select sections.

Option A) Don't charge more in the north.
Option B) Only charge in the north.

What the fuck?

[hotdogPi]

There's actually precedent for the less-used end not having a toll: the Mass Pike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 (sequential) had a $0.00 toll (still part of the ticket system, but it didn't increase how much you paid). This went away a few years ago, before and unrelated to the AET switch. Trucks still paid a toll, though.

[Rothman]

Given that it is already widened, the road can now handle the traffic...

*blinks*

Wut.

[roadman65]

Because drivers using the northern end are worsening the traffic, whereas drivers on the southern end barely affect the traffic as there rarely is any. Drivers going the entire length would have to pay the same amount through the northern stretch so how is it unfair? That's like saying drivers who go longer distances should pay more of a toll just because more of their trip happened to be on a non-toll road. The northern end is consistently black-red on the map during rush hour, whereas South of NYC, there is rarely any red on the map even on the worst Friday getaway holidays during rush hour.

Because it is commuter road in the north as compared to the south where non-toll roads are used for commuting daily. It's a sore point that the Turnpike and Parkway are tolled that commuters need to use daily.

What "non-toll roads"? Keep going on I-295 north and you'll find yourself heading south again and in PA. Not exactly a replacement for the turnpike. And the parkway is on the other side of the state. Between Exits 5 and 11 there are literally no alternatives.

. Uh hum.  US 130 from 7-9.  US 1 from 9-18.

[famartin]

This thread is completely derailed.

[roadman65]

First there was Ethanman with his I-366 and 85 mph.
Then the diesel mechanic and his Hypotenuse.

Now we have this guy and his high tolls in northern New Jersey.

What next?

[MultiMillionMiler]

Because drivers using the northern end are worsening the traffic, whereas drivers on the southern end barely affect the traffic as there rarely is any. Drivers going the entire length would have to pay the same amount through the northern stretch so how is it unfair? That's like saying drivers who go longer distances should pay more of a toll just because more of their trip happened to be on a non-toll road. The northern end is consistently black-red on the map during rush hour, whereas South of NYC, there is rarely any red on the map even on the worst Friday getaway holidays during rush hour.

Because it is commuter road in the north as compared to the south where non-toll roads are used for commuting daily. It's a sore point that the Turnpike and Parkway are tolled that commuters need to use daily.

What "non-toll roads"? Keep going on I-295 north and you'll find yourself heading south again and in PA. Not exactly a replacement for the turnpike. And the parkway is on the other side of the state. Between Exits 5 and 11 there are literally no alternatives.

. Uh hum.  US 130 from 7-9.  US 1 from 9-18.

You're joking right?

[MultiMillionMiler]

First there was Ethanman with his I-366 and 85 mph.
Then the diesel mechanic and his Hypotenuse.

Now we have this guy and his high tolls in northern New Jersey.

What next?

It could be no tolls also, that's option #3.
That option is also fine with me btw.

[roadman65]

Because drivers using the northern end are worsening the traffic, whereas drivers on the southern end barely affect the traffic as there rarely is any. Drivers going the entire length would have to pay the same amount through the northern stretch so how is it unfair? That's like saying drivers who go longer distances should pay more of a toll just because more of their trip happened to be on a non-toll road. The northern end is consistently black-red on the map during rush hour, whereas South of NYC, there is rarely any red on the map even on the worst Friday getaway holidays during rush hour.

Because it is commuter road in the north as compared to the south where non-toll roads are used for commuting daily. It's a sore point that the Turnpike and Parkway are tolled that commuters need to use daily.

What "non-toll roads"? Keep going on I-295 north and you'll find yourself heading south again and in PA. Not exactly a replacement for the turnpike. And the parkway is on the other side of the state. Between Exits 5 and 11 there are literally no alternatives.

. Uh hum.  US 130 from 7-9.  US 1 from 9-18.

You're joking right?

No I'm not. 

You don't have to drive the Turnpike. You can go another way and despite having stop lights, if a person don't want to pay the toll you can leave early or allot more time.

[MultiMillionMiler]

Of course I'd rather pay the toll than take triple the time lol
but it is extremely excessive. The ohio turnpike is twice as long and not as expensive.
It's literally the busiest highway in the United States. No matter what the Jersey Government says...I guarantee they have more than enough money to fund road repair by now. I would limit the entire length to either $5 or $10 the entire length, and I would divide that equally between exits.

[sprjus4]

Because drivers using the northern end are worsening the traffic, whereas drivers on the southern end barely affect the traffic as there rarely is any. Drivers going the entire length would have to pay the same amount through the northern stretch so how is it unfair? That's like saying drivers who go longer distances should pay more of a toll just because more of their trip happened to be on a non-toll road. The northern end is consistently black-red on the map during rush hour, whereas South of NYC, there is rarely any red on the map even on the worst Friday getaway holidays during rush hour.

Because it is commuter road in the north as compared to the south where non-toll roads are used for commuting daily. It's a sore point that the Turnpike and Parkway are tolled that commuters need to use daily.

What "non-toll roads"? Keep going on I-295 north and you'll find yourself heading south again and in PA. Not exactly a replacement for the turnpike. And the parkway is on the other side of the state. Between Exits 5 and 11 there are literally no alternatives.

. Uh hum.  US 130 from 7-9.  US 1 from 9-18.

You're joking right?

I mean, that was the option before the toll road was built. It's always been the free route. The Turnpike has never been free.

You act like the Turnpike was free before.

Also, between Exits 5 and 7A, I-295 and I-195 exist as free alternatives that are interstate highways.

[DrSmith]

Because drivers using the northern end are worsening the traffic, whereas drivers on the southern end barely affect the traffic as there rarely is any. Drivers going the entire length would have to pay the same amount through the northern stretch so how is it unfair? That's like saying drivers who go longer distances should pay more of a toll just because more of their trip happened to be on a non-toll road. The northern end is consistently black-red on the map during rush hour, whereas South of NYC, there is rarely any red on the map even on the worst Friday getaway holidays during rush hour.

Because it is commuter road in the north as compared to the south where non-toll roads are used for commuting daily. It's a sore point that the Turnpike and Parkway are tolled that commuters need to use daily.

What "non-toll roads"? Keep going on I-295 north and you'll find yourself heading south again and in PA. Not exactly a replacement for the turnpike. And the parkway is on the other side of the state. Between Exits 5 and 11 there are literally no alternatives.

My point is up north there aren't the same alternatives and so commuters have to use the toll roads. Both the Turnpike and the parkway are running through that area. It's a sore point that they already are paying tolls for commuting and one of your proposals is to further increase that.

Also the reason the tolls are higher in the north is the complexity of the roadway. There are many more bridges and elevated sections that cost more to maintain.

[DrSmith]

There's actually precedent for the less-used end not having a toll: the Mass Pike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 (sequential) had a $0.00 toll (still part of the ticket system, but it didn't increase how much you paid). This went away a few years ago, before and unrelated to the AET switch. Trucks still paid a toll, though.

The lack of a toll on the Mass Pike was a concession for the Big Dig and the cost disaster that it was. In Western Mass, people were upset that they were funding the Big Dig and all the overruns and the old Mass Turnpike Authority was the agency in charge of the Big Dig. The concession was no tolls for Exits 1-6.

When the tolls came back, the deal was the money on the western part would stay in Western Mass.

Now there is no Mass Turnpike Authority, it was dissolved and incorporated into MassDOT after the Big Dig. This is also a different situation that with the NJ Turnpike where there is a separate entity tasked with maintenance.

[Rothman]

There's actually precedent for the less-used end not having a toll: the Mass Pike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 (sequential) had a $0.00 toll (still part of the ticket system, but it didn't increase how much you paid). This went away a few years ago, before and unrelated to the AET switch. Trucks still paid a toll, though.

The lack of a toll on the Mass Pike was a concession for the Big Dig and the cost disaster that it was. In Western Mass, people were upset that they were funding the Big Dig and all the overruns and the old Mass Turnpike Authority was the agency in charge of the Big Dig. The concession was no tolls for Exits 1-6.

When the tolls came back, the deal was the money on the western part would stay in Western Mass.

Now there is no Mass Turnpike Authority, it was dissolved and incorporated into MassDOT after the Big Dig. This is also a different situation that with the NJ Turnpike where there is a separate entity tasked with maintenance.

I wonder if you messed up the chronology here.  Tolls came off the Pike long before real overruns hit the Big Dig project, I believe.  I also think the tolls came back under MassDOT.

[jeffandnicole]

There's actually precedent for the less-used end not having a toll: the Mass Pike from Exit 1 to Exit 6 (sequential) had a $0.00 toll (still part of the ticket system, but it didn't increase how much you paid). This went away a few years ago, before and unrelated to the AET switch. Trucks still paid a toll, though.

This isn't really much of a precedent.  Tolls have come and gone from sections of numerous toll roads for numerous reasons.  If any toll agency removed tolls, it's typically not because another toll agency had also removed tolls.  Precedents that are more genuine: One way tolling and EZ Pass discounts based on residency.

It's also a dick move:  Basically, telling the entire state they feel your angst so they'll remove tolls...from where they are least likely to travel.  If anyone thinks this won't come back to bite them in the form of higher tolls on other sections, or higher fees/taxes statewide, they are much too gullible.

[Alps]

Because the northern part of the Turnpike has the most traffic, so obviously the toll should be entirely there. Why should drivers have to pay on the southern length?

because it's congested and is being improved just like the entire system and it's in FAR better shape than about any other road in the nation
and meanwhile nj's roads are FAR from worst in the nation please cite. they've made HUGE strides in the last several years to rebuild the worst bridges and roads.

[MultiMillionMiler]

I was surprised when I heard that too a couple years ago. I thought NJ was at least in the top 5 states with the best roads, but apparently they were the worst that year. Jersey Turnpike is definitely one of the best highways in the country however, but still a $5 toll each way or even $10 each way for the entire length is more than enough. $40 to drive the entire length and back is criminal extortion. Imagine paying taxes to build roads, and then being charged to use them.

[SignBridge]

I just checked the NJT toll schedule and the highest toll I see for any class-1 vehicle driving the entire length of the Turnpike is not even twenty dollars. Were you talking about forty dollars for maybe a tractor-trailer?

[SignBridge]

I would be very surprised if they double the tolls in the course of one or two years.

[hotdogPi]

I would be very surprised if they double the tolls in the course of one or two years.

The $40 is for both directions combined, not one.

[MultiMillionMiler]

Yes SMH that's what I've been saying LOL you have to drive back right?

[cockroachking]

Yes SMH that's what I've been saying LOL you have to drive back right?

You can take US-1 and US-130 back. Explore something new. Life is boing if you return the same way you came, just as boring as the NJ Turnpike 

I was surprised when I heard that too a couple years ago. I thought NJ was at least in the top 5 states with the best roads, but apparently they were the worst that year. Jersey Turnpike is definitely one of the best highways in the country however, but still a $5 toll each way or even $10 each way for the entire length is more than enough. $40 to drive the entire length and back is criminal extortion. Imagine paying taxes to build roads, and then being charged to use them.

Except for the fact that NJTA receives exactly $0.00 in tax revenue.

[02 Park Ave]

Also the reason the tolls are higher in the north is the complexity of the roadway. There are many more bridges and elevated sections that cost more to maintain.

That is a very logical statement.  Carrying it forth, the cost of any improvement project on the Turnpike should be paid for by tolls from the area of the project.

If a section of the Turnpike is widened, the tolls should be increased on that section and on that section only to pay for the widening.

[roadman65]

Also, homes had to be leveled. Properties seized.  Elizabeth, the turnpike wiped out peoples dwellings twice. Once when the original turnpike built and second when expanded later.

My dad said land was worth more in North Jersey anyway, but in Elizabeth it was legal hassles mainly to acquire eminent domain.

[davewiecking]

...
Imagine paying taxes to build roads, and then being charged to use them.

Except for the fact that NJTA receives exactly $0.00 in toll tax revenue.

FTFY, I believe.