Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[Rothman]

Article on I-81 controversy in today's NY Times (may be paywalled).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikut6N86n_AhVljokEHbkXDI0QFnoECDwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2023%2F06%2F03%2Fnyregion%2Fsyracuse-interstate-81.html&usg=AOvVaw186VA62IQz_lNL_8WGPBbx

Heh.  It's a State project, not a City of Syracuse project.  The fact they focused on Joe Driscoll and considered him the project director is probably creating a lot of snickers at NYSDOT.  "Yeah, we'll let them think that and take a break from the press..."

Then again, the City isn't being sued since it's not their project, so more power to Joe for participating in the article.

[kalvado]

Article on I-81 controversy in today's NY Times (may be paywalled).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikut6N86n_AhVljokEHbkXDI0QFnoECDwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2023%2F06%2F03%2Fnyregion%2Fsyracuse-interstate-81.html&usg=AOvVaw186VA62IQz_lNL_8WGPBbx

Heh.  It's a State project, not a City of Syracuse project.  The fact they focused on Joe Driscoll and considered him the project director is probably creating a lot of snickers at NYSDOT.  "Yeah, we'll let them think that and take a break from the press..."

Then again, the City isn't being sued since it's not their project, so more power to Joe for participating in the article.

SO much for NYT proclaimed fact-checking of their writeups.

[vdeane]

I think it's annoying when people compare apples and oranges with freeway removal projects.  Syracuse is a true freeway removal of a major interstate.  Rochester removed a lightly traveled route that was close to I-490, so access didn't really change at all (especially since the only way to get to it from the east side was to drive around the other side or use local streets anyways).  Denver and Boston buried their interstates rather than remove them.  Yet the article (and many urban activists, as well) treats them as if they're all the same.

[kalvado]

I think it's annoying when people compare apples and oranges with freeway removal projects.  Syracuse is a true freeway removal of a major interstate.  Rochester removed a lightly traveled route that was close to I-490, so access didn't really change at all (especially since the only way to get to it from the east side was to drive around the other side or use local streets anyways).  Denver and Boston buried their interstates rather than remove them.  Yet the article (and many urban activists, as well) treats them as if they're all the same.

Common propagandist approaches - present significantly different things as similar when needed, focus on minor differences otherwise. Ol'good ends justifies the means thing.

[silverback1065]

I think it's annoying when people compare apples and oranges with freeway removal projects.  Syracuse is a true freeway removal of a major interstate.  Rochester removed a lightly traveled route that was close to I-490, so access didn't really change at all (especially since the only way to get to it from the east side was to drive around the other side or use local streets anyways).  Denver and Boston buried their interstates rather than remove them.  Yet the article (and many urban activists, as well) treats them as if they're all the same.

that's why I completely ignore any media stories on freeways. its always a mess of propaganda and incorrect statements.

[The Ghostbuster]

There is a recent story on the Interstate 81 reconstruction plan at the sycacuse.com website: https://www.syracuse.com/news/2023/07/new-york-starts-225-billion-interstate-81-rebuild-despite-court-challenges.html. However, the text in the second paragraph disappears into a paywall. Can someone help me out to see all the words to the story? I'd really appreciate it since I am the one who started this thread in the first place (I have a great deal of interest in this project, even though I've never been to Syracuse or the state of New York).

[zzcarp]

There is a recent story on the Interstate 81 reconstruction plan at the sycacuse.com website: https://www.syracuse.com/news/2023/07/new-york-starts-225-billion-interstate-81-rebuild-despite-court-challenges.html. However, the text in the second paragraph disappears into a paywall. Can someone help me out to see all the words to the story? I'd really appreciate it since I am the one who started this thread in the first place (I have a great deal of interest in this project, even though I've never been to Syracuse or the state of New York).

Try this link.

[Rothman]

There is a recent story on the Interstate 81 reconstruction plan at the sycacuse.com website: https://www.syracuse.com/news/2023/07/new-york-starts-225-billion-interstate-81-rebuild-despite-court-challenges.html. However, the text in the second paragraph disappears into a paywall. Can someone help me out to see all the words to the story? I'd really appreciate it since I am the one who started this thread in the first place (I have a great deal of interest in this project, even though I've never been to Syracuse or the state of New York).

Try this link.

The text of the article is not as charged as the headline.

[The Ghostbuster]

Thank you very much, Rothman!

[silverback1065]

link didn't work for me, what was the jist of the article?

[ixnay]

I have a great deal of interest in this project, even though I've never been to Syracuse or the state of New York.

What, then, piqued your interest?  Did Milwaukee undertake a similar project? (you say you're from Wisconsin in your profile)

[kalvado]

link didn't work for me, what was the jist of the article?

Work on 481 have started despite ongoing legal situation. Not too much fanfare at this point, maybe ceremony when the viaduct is closed for demolition.

[Rothman]

link didn't work for me, what was the jist of the article?

Just that NYSDOT is moving forward with the aspects of the project not affected by the lawsuits -- which means any of those activities that are not directly related to the removal of the viaduct.  This includes mainly the northern interchange between I-81/I-481/NY 481 at this point.  Article states that NYSDOT has not had a groundbreaking or fanfare regarding the construction work that is underway and that $29m has been spent on the project already.

To which I say, I'm sure there'll be a groundbreaking when schedules of the politicians align and they feel it's an appropriate time or whatnot.  Which, makes me wonder who the saavy political schemer was that nudged Syracuse.com to point out one hasn't happened yet...Ah, NY.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[Alps]

I don't get the fuss. Syracuse has no freeways in its limits at all. It does have this cool truss though: https://goo.gl/maps/RHohfoBNZNJjcKSj8

[kalvado]

I don't get the fuss. Syracuse has no freeways in its limits at all. It does have this cool truss though: https://goo.gl/maps/RHohfoBNZNJjcKSj8

Welcome to New York, home of Syracuse, Ithaca, Troy, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Poland.

[froggie]

I'm suddenly having Augusta Bay flashbacks...

[davewiecking]

link didn't work for me, what was the jist of the article?

At the risk of bringing this discussion back to New York State, here are a few bits of the article:

The state said the inability to work on contract procurement, design or construction of the viaduct would put the entire project schedule at risk of costing tens of millions of dollars.
In court papers, Jeffrey Moryl, director of the DOT's project management office, laid out the inconvenience to the department and cost to taxpayers.
First, he said, the state would forfeit the $29 million it has already paid for work on the first contract. That includes preparing the area for construction by removing noise barriers, removing existing utilities, establishing work zone traffic controls and building staging areas.
The state would also have to pay for millions of dollars in infrastructure that has been ordered, but not yet paid for. These costs total $24.3 million and include 1,700 precast retaining wall units, steel for five bridges, materials for two large culverts and one precast bridge, and a custom GPS system for construction.
There would also be a cost of $50,000 to $100,000 per month to extend quality assurance and inspection contracts, he said.
Delaying the project also affects the workforce. The contractors have already hired 49 construction workers from the Syracuse area, he said.
It would also be harmful to the people who live near the northern exchange where work has begun because they have already removed noise barriers, he said.
...
Betsy Parmley, the engineer in charge of the project, said she cannot discuss the lawsuit.
She did talk about the work that has begun at the northern interchange.
Preliminary site work is already visible to commuters and neighbors. In late July, drivers will start to see heavier construction, she said.
The plan is to redesign the interchange so drivers can connect from I-81 to I-481 at 65 mph rather than the slow off ramps that exist now, she said.
...
The DOT does plan to host an official groundbreaking at some point, most likely when it is time to tear down the viaduct in Syracuse, she said.

[The Ghostbuster]

Wrong Syracuse, Alps! That one is in Sicily. Or was that the point?

[Rothman]

Wrong Syracuse, Alps! That one is in Sicily. Or was that the point?

Well, it certainly was the joke...

[Rothman]

Got invited to and attended the I-81 Viaduct Project groundbreaking today.  Gov. Hochul, Sens. Schumer and Gillibrand, Lanessa Owens-Chaplin of NY Civil Liberties Union and Former Mayor of New Orleans Mitch Landrieu, White House Coordinator of the IIJA all spoke.  Pretty standard stuff on reconnecting the community, fighting racism, and creating local, unionized jobs.

[Duke87]

Got invited to and attended the I-81 Viaduct Project groundbreaking today.  Gov. Hochul, Sens. Schumer and Gillibrand, Lanessa Owens-Chaplin of NY Civil Liberties Union and Former Mayor of New Orleans Mitch Landrieu, White House Coordinator of the IIJA all spoke.  Pretty standard stuff on reconnecting the community, fighting racism, and creating local, unionized jobs.

Sorry you had to sit through that.

[Rothman]

Got invited to and attended the I-81 Viaduct Project groundbreaking today.  Gov. Hochul, Sens. Schumer and Gillibrand, Lanessa Owens-Chaplin of NY Civil Liberties Union and Former Mayor of New Orleans Mitch Landrieu, White House Coordinator of the IIJA all spoke.  Pretty standard stuff on reconnecting the community, fighting racism, and creating local, unionized jobs.

Sorry you had to sit through that.

Why?

[Plutonic Panda]

Got invited to and attended the I-81 Viaduct Project groundbreaking today.  Gov. Hochul, Sens. Schumer and Gillibrand, Lanessa Owens-Chaplin of NY Civil Liberties Union and Former Mayor of New Orleans Mitch Landrieu, White House Coordinator of the IIJA all spoke.  Pretty standard stuff on reconnecting the community, fighting racism, and creating local, unionized jobs.

Sorry you had to sit through that.

Why?

IMO it'd be because this project is fucking stupid.

[Plutonic Panda]

At any rate, here is an article about this: https://www.fingerlakesdailynews.com/regional-state-congressional/state-breaks-ground-on-syracuse-i-81-viaduct-project

[Rothman]

Got invited to and attended the I-81 Viaduct Project groundbreaking today.  Gov. Hochul, Sens. Schumer and Gillibrand, Lanessa Owens-Chaplin of NY Civil Liberties Union and Former Mayor of New Orleans Mitch Landrieu, White House Coordinator of the IIJA all spoke.  Pretty standard stuff on reconnecting the community, fighting racism, and creating local, unionized jobs.

Sorry you had to sit through that.

Why?

IMO it'd be because this project is fucking stupid.

I'm still shaking my head at or mildly amused by roadgeeks that repeat criticisms that blatantly don't take all the characteristics of the project into account, which means they can be ignored.

I'm also amused by the fact that there have been so few roadgeeks that have actually looked into the details of the project and noted the actual remaining more troublesome aspects of it.