News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

NFL 2026 (what if)

Started by Desert Man, February 14, 2017, 08:51:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Big John

^^ College sports are king in that area.  An NFL team in Alabama would play second/third fiddle to the Tide and Auburn for fan support.


texaskdog

Quote from: jbnv on September 24, 2017, 01:18:31 PM
The NFL shouldn't grow beyond 32 teams unless some sort of promotion-relegation system goes into place. There's a perfect number of divisions and teams per division. It's balanced.

6 divisions of 6!

Henry

I don't see Roger Goodell adding any new teams, so 32 is the perfect number for the league. Same goes for the NHL once that Seattle team gets up and running.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

NWI_Irish96

You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

sparker

Quote from: texaskdog on January 21, 2020, 10:39:18 PM
Quote from: jbnv on September 24, 2017, 01:18:31 PM
The NFL shouldn't grow beyond 32 teams unless some sort of promotion-relegation system goes into place. There's a perfect number of divisions and teams per division. It's balanced.

6 divisions of 6!

More or less what I proposed back in 2017 (reply #48).  Had a few alternate ideas as of late, some of which deal with the ups and downs of the various teams and division parity.  Still like the 6-division concept and 17-game regular season -- but the idea of placing a team in Albuquerque seems a bit of a stretch, considering the overall metro area isn't that much larger than the central city itself -- and including Santa Fe and Taos in the fan base is a bit far-fetched!  After talking with my cousin Glen in OKC, I'm more and more convinced that an Oklahoma-based NFC team, drawing fans from both OKC and Tulsa as well as the more outlying environs, would be quite viable.  The proximity of UofO and OSU and their combined fanbase had provided doubt before -- but the dilution of the old Big Eight into the Big-Pick-Any-High-Even-Number has made quite a few local folks look for new horizons.  So the potential Albuquerque franchise just moves east on I-40 to its new home.  Don't know what to call it; possibly the Wagoneers after the vehicle of choice for the original "Sooner" settlers.  I'll ask my cousin; he or his brothers might have a better idea!  In any case, I still stand by my other three expansion choices -- St. Louis; still has a potential fanbase in MO and southern IL; San Antonio -- TX can certainly support 3 teams, particularly since the new one would draw fans/customers from both SA and Austin, not to mention the entire I-35 corridor in between.  And Virginia/Hampton Roads could be based either in the latter area or even Richmond (or simply put the stadium along I-64 in between!) -- could be something our intrepid I-87 warriors (you know who you are!) might just agree on!   

But by 2026 the recent L.A. situation -- going from zero to 2 teams in one fell swoop -- might cease to be viable (particularly if Philip Rivers works out a trade or simply retires); the Spanos ownership might look elsewhere if ticket sales slump (those particular owners seem to value the bottom line above all else) -- and since they threw San Diego under the bus, it's possible the franchise could move north to the Sacramento area, close to Spanos' corporate central in Stockton (a stadium in Elk Grove, anyone?).  Aside from Vegas, Sacramento seems to be the most "greedy/needy" metro area when it comes to snagging pro teams. 

Portland almost always comes up during discussions of this sort -- but potential owners/investors in teams want to see an influx of public money for stadiums or promotional efforts -- and the longstanding political climate there is just not favorable to public money spent on private sports enterprises.  Plus, finding a location for a stadium with adequate access would draw the ire of PDX Metro; if by odd chance the area ever got a NFL franchise, the stadium would as likely as not be located across the river in WA as per Meadowlands and NYC!  Just don't see it happening! 

webny99

Quote from: DTComposer on March 14, 2017, 07:04:03 PM
Buffalo is stagnant, but has the rest of upstate New York to pull from.

Indeed. I believe I have argued on this forum that Rochester to Buffalo, for Bills home games, is a bigger fan migration than Milwaukee to Green Bay. Anything in NY west of I-81 is major Bills territory.

nexus73

Quote from: sparker on January 22, 2020, 07:02:26 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 21, 2020, 10:39:18 PM
Quote from: jbnv on September 24, 2017, 01:18:31 PM
The NFL shouldn't grow beyond 32 teams unless some sort of promotion-relegation system goes into place. There's a perfect number of divisions and teams per division. It's balanced.

6 divisions of 6!

More or less what I proposed back in 2017 (reply #48).  Had a few alternate ideas as of late, some of which deal with the ups and downs of the various teams and division parity.  Still like the 6-division concept and 17-game regular season -- but the idea of placing a team in Albuquerque seems a bit of a stretch, considering the overall metro area isn't that much larger than the central city itself -- and including Santa Fe and Taos in the fan base is a bit far-fetched!  After talking with my cousin Glen in OKC, I'm more and more convinced that an Oklahoma-based NFC team, drawing fans from both OKC and Tulsa as well as the more outlying environs, would be quite viable.  The proximity of UofO and OSU and their combined fanbase had provided doubt before -- but the dilution of the old Big Eight into the Big-Pick-Any-High-Even-Number has made quite a few local folks look for new horizons.  So the potential Albuquerque franchise just moves east on I-40 to its new home.  Don't know what to call it; possibly the Wagoneers after the vehicle of choice for the original "Sooner" settlers.  I'll ask my cousin; he or his brothers might have a better idea!  In any case, I still stand by my other three expansion choices -- St. Louis; still has a potential fanbase in MO and southern IL; San Antonio -- TX can certainly support 3 teams, particularly since the new one would draw fans/customers from both SA and Austin, not to mention the entire I-35 corridor in between.  And Virginia/Hampton Roads could be based either in the latter area or even Richmond (or simply put the stadium along I-64 in between!) -- could be something our intrepid I-87 warriors (you know who you are!) might just agree on!   

But by 2026 the recent L.A. situation -- going from zero to 2 teams in one fell swoop -- might cease to be viable (particularly if Philip Rivers works out a trade or simply retires); the Spanos ownership might look elsewhere if ticket sales slump (those particular owners seem to value the bottom line above all else) -- and since they threw San Diego under the bus, it's possible the franchise could move north to the Sacramento area, close to Spanos' corporate central in Stockton (a stadium in Elk Grove, anyone?).  Aside from Vegas, Sacramento seems to be the most "greedy/needy" metro area when it comes to snagging pro teams. 

Portland almost always comes up during discussions of this sort -- but potential owners/investors in teams want to see an influx of public money for stadiums or promotional efforts -- and the longstanding political climate there is just not favorable to public money spent on private sports enterprises.  Plus, finding a location for a stadium with adequate access would draw the ire of PDX Metro; if by odd chance the area ever got a NFL franchise, the stadium would as likely as not be located across the river in WA as per Meadowlands and NYC!  Just don't see it happening! 

What killed pro football in PDX: Voters turning down the Delta Dome proposal back in 1965.  I believe you to be right about any football stadium being built in PDX turning into an untenable situation.  The old greyhound racetrack struck me as a property that would be fine.  What do you think about that location?

A suburban location on the highway to Estacada looks doable.  The SE PDX metro area is not as congested as the SW area.  Would this be okay?

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

sparker

Quote from: nexus73 on January 23, 2020, 12:33:23 PM
What killed pro football in PDX: Voters turning down the Delta Dome proposal back in 1965.  I believe you to be right about any football stadium being built in PDX turning into an untenable situation.  The old greyhound racetrack struck me as a property that would be fine.  What do you think about that location?

A suburban location on the highway to Estacada looks doable.  The SE PDX metro area is not as congested as the SW area.  Would this be okay?

Rick

While the good folks at Portland Metro would probably piss & moan about anything in their jurisdiction that would become a major traffic attractant/generator -- probably to the point that nothing would ever get finalized -- the plain truth is that their jurisdiction ends in the middle of the Columbia -- hence the increased potential that any stadium would be constructed on the WA side of the river (Camas, anyone?).   Property developers discovered this concept decades ago -- which is why Battle Ground and Woodland are fast becoming developmental sites, for better or worse,  as a way to circumvent the controlled growth aspects endemic to PDX. 

mgk920

Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Alps

Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.

hotdogPi

All this talk of Joe Montana makes me wonder if Montana could have an NFL team. However, it seems like there are too few people.

MT, ID, ND, SD, WY, northern UT, eastern WA, and northwestern NE (nobody lives in this corner of the state) is nowhere near enough. However, the region is growing rapidly (this is the 2026 thread, after all), and if we could get the Salt Lake City area to support the Montana team, maybe it could work.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

tchafe1978

Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.

Yup, Green Bay's market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, with 5.5+ million people.

hotdogPi

Quote from: tchafe1978 on February 08, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.

Yup, Green Bay's market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, with 5.5+ million people.

328 million / 5.8 million ≈ 56

There are only 32 NFL teams.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

nexus73

Quote from: tchafe1978 on February 08, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.

Yup, Green Bay's market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, with 5.5+ million people.

GB is a "national" team compared to Jacksonville.  Some teams draw big fan bases from across the country.  Dallas is "America's Team" along with others like the Raiders and Steelers.

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: nexus73 on February 08, 2020, 05:54:58 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on February 08, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.

Yup, Green Bay's market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, with 5.5+ million people.

GB is a "national" team compared to Jacksonville.  Some teams draw big fan bases from across the country.  Dallas is "America's Team" along with others like the Raiders and Steelers.

Rick

The Packers are a national team when they're good.  In the 1980's, you couldn't pay people to watch their games.
The Cowboys, Bears, Giants and Jets are national teams even when they're bad.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

mgk920

Quote from: tchafe1978 on February 08, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.

Yup, Green Bay's market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, with 5.5+ million people.

The Packers are also one of the strongest road draws in the NFL.  Along with the Steelers, they 'travel' extremely well.  It is one of the main reasons why they're the only team left in the NFL who has not yet played a regular season game outside of the USA - no road team wants to lose out on that ticket revenue, too.

That along with active Packers' themed sports bars in pretty much every metro area in the USA and in many foreign countries.

Mike

Rothman

Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 07:00:30 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on February 08, 2020, 05:54:58 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on February 08, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 07, 2020, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
You need two things in order to expand a league, fan support and competitive talent.  The NFL may very well have the fan support to add 4 more teams, but not the talent. 

The soccer style promotion/relegation system would never work in the US.  The TV networks count on the big markets always being there when negotiating deals.  They aren't going to pay nearly as much if the teams in NY and Chicago could be out of the top tier at any point in time.

And yet, some of the highest TV ratings for the NFL over the past 2-3 decades have been for games involving the Packers.

:spin:

Mike

Smaller market teams will draw big ratings when they are good.  If someone else had been smart enough to draft Aaron Rodgers ahead of them, the Packers would be consistently playing Sunday noon games announced by Fox's D team.

Bigger market teams draw ratings even when they're bad.
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.

Yup, Green Bay's market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, with 5.5+ million people.

GB is a "national" team compared to Jacksonville.  Some teams draw big fan bases from across the country.  Dallas is "America's Team" along with others like the Raiders and Steelers.

Rick

The Packers are a national team when they're good.  In the 1980's, you couldn't pay people to watch their games.
The Cowboys, Bears, Giants and Jets are national teams even when they're bad.
Same goes for the Patriots in those dark times between Super Bowl XX and Bledsoe.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

thspfc

Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 07:00:30 PM
The Packers are a national team when they're good.  In the 1980's, you couldn't pay people to watch their games.
The Cowboys, Bears, Giants and Jets are national teams even when they're bad.
The NFL loves to force the Cowboys/Giants games twice a year down everyone's throat. I can't remember a Cowboys/Giants game that wasn't nationally televised in the last five years.

kevinb1994

Quote from: thspfc on February 09, 2020, 09:54:19 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on February 08, 2020, 07:00:30 PM
The Packers are a national team when they're good.  In the 1980's, you couldn't pay people to watch their games.
The Cowboys, Bears, Giants and Jets are national teams even when they're bad.
The NFL loves to force the Cowboys/Giants games twice a year down everyone's throat. I can't remember a Cowboys/Giants game that wasn't nationally televised in the last five years.
I blame Fox for calling the Cowboys Murica's Team so there's that as well.

webny99

Quote from: mgk920 on February 09, 2020, 02:26:05 AM
The Packers are also one of the strongest road draws in the NFL.  Along with the Steelers, they 'travel' extremely well.

Along with the Patriots, obviously. And, perhaps surprisingly (at least for those not from Western NY), you can put the Bills in that category as well.

Quote from: 1 on February 08, 2020, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on February 08, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 08, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Green Bay is a big market team, just a small town where the stadium is.
Yup, Green Bay's market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, with 5.5+ million people.
328 million / 5.8 million ≈ 56
There are only 32 NFL teams.

The point being that 5.8 million isn't a big market. That's less than a third of the NYC area population, for example.
Of course, that isn't mutually exclusive with the Packers being a big-market team. They seem to have a nationwide fan base that's pretty much on par with the Cowboys and Steelers.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.