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Complete NC 540 Project

Started by wdcrft63, March 27, 2018, 06:05:36 PM

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architect77

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 14, 2020, 09:42:47 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 14, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 14, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
^This. It should have been I-640 from the get-go, and I have no clue what NCDOT was thinking when they applied for I-540 since they must have been planning the full beltway, but at this point they need to just leave it 540 and one day convince AASHTO to let them make it all I-540 when/if tolls go away in however many decades.

Considering Illinois is getting an electronic toll only I-490, NCDOT should try for the switch at the next meeting.  If AASHTO won't let them make the switch then seek an congressional override.
Has to due with funding. If federal funding is used, it cannot be an interstate by current law.

I SUSPECT THAT ONCE IT'S A COMPLETE LOOP, the need for simplicity for one highway entity will result in an effort to give it one interstate name/designation. I-640.

NCDOT has enough pull if they want something to get it approved.

What i don't like is I-87 in NC and another separate I-87 in New York State. Asinine, and confusing.


architect77

#126
Quote from: orulz on December 04, 2019, 04:08:33 PM
I don't think "complete 540" is going to be effective at reducing traffic on I-40. Uncongested trip times for through drivers will be significantly shorter on I-40, since I-40 is quite a bit shorter. So given that it is a toll road that will cost money to use, through traffic will only use it as a bypass when I-40 is significantly congested - meaning no relief of congestion on I-40.

It *will* provide an effective cutoff route for drivers heading between Pittsboro on US64 or Sanford on US1, and Wilmington on I-40 or Selma/Goldsboro/etc on I-42, but I don't think that will be enough to move the needle on I-40 congestion very much.

Make no mistake. The main purpose of this road is to enable sprawl in southern Wake County.

This part of the Outer Loop will be used by the people that have settled in Holly Springs, Apex and Fuquay-Varina.

They came because of the quality of life receiving national attention for over 25 years and counting. This highway will not entice more people to come who weren't already planning to do so. It will provide mobility for Southern Wake County which has exploded in population. It is infrastructure for the tax-paying citizens who fork out plenty of money every month and every year to the county and state.

That's exactly what should be happening and it is.


sprjus4

^ See my previous comment.

Quote from: sprjus4 on July 14, 2020, 12:14:46 PM
I-540 has already been established for nearly 20 years, and it would only cause more unnecessarily confusion to go and re-number it. It would satisfy a few groups of road geeks, but the majority of people could care less if it's 5 vs. 6.

Quote from: architect77 on September 21, 2020, 12:10:00 PM
What i don't like is I-87 in NC and another separate I-87 in New York State. Asinine, and confusing.
No different than the separate I-76s, I-84s, I-86s, and I-88s.

wanderer2575

Quote from: Revive 755 on July 14, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 14, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
^This. It should have been I-640 from the get-go, and I have no clue what NCDOT was thinking when they applied for I-540 since they must have been planning the full beltway, but at this point they need to just leave it 540 and one day convince AASHTO to let them make it all I-540 when/if tolls go away in however many decades.

Considering Illinois is getting an electronic toll only I-490, NCDOT should try for the switch at the next meeting.  If AASHTO won't let them make the switch then seek an congressional override.

That would set a terrific precedent...  It's not like we would ever end up with something like an I-99 in Pennsylvania because of some politician's whim...

sprjus4

Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 23, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 14, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 14, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
^This. It should have been I-640 from the get-go, and I have no clue what NCDOT was thinking when they applied for I-540 since they must have been planning the full beltway, but at this point they need to just leave it 540 and one day convince AASHTO to let them make it all I-540 when/if tolls go away in however many decades.

Considering Illinois is getting an electronic toll only I-490, NCDOT should try for the switch at the next meeting.  If AASHTO won't let them make the switch then seek an congressional override.

That would set a terrific precedent...  It's not like we would ever end up with something like an I-99 in Pennsylvania because of some politician's whim...
Again, it's likely due to the fact I-490 does not include federal funding which may be why NC-540 is not designated as an interstate. VA-895 had a similar situation a couple decades ago.

wdcrft63

Lots of folks in the Forum believe that NCDOT wants every freeway in the state to have an interstate designation. I don't see much evidence for that. NCDOT applied for the designations that turned out to be I-42, I-87, and I-587 because they were pushed politically by local governments and business interests. I think NCDOT is perfectly happy with NC 540 designation, just as it was happy to downgrade the Salem Parkway in Winston-Salem from Business 40 to US 421.

sprjus4

^
The recent additions are logical additions to the system as well, it's not like it's an effort to slap a designation on every freeway segment in the state.

There's a number of freeway mileage that connects to the interstate system and is not designated.

architect77

Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 23, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 14, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 14, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
^This. It should have been I-640 from the get-go, and I have no clue what NCDOT was thinking when they applied for I-540 since they must have been planning the full beltway, but at this point they need to just leave it 540 and one day convince AASHTO to let them make it all I-540 when/if tolls go away in however many decades.

Considering Illinois is getting an electronic toll only I-490, NCDOT should try for the switch at the next meeting.  If AASHTO won't let them make the switch then seek an congressional override.

That would set a terrific precedent...  It's not like we would ever end up with something like an I-99 in Pennsylvania because of some politician's whim...


NCDOT did have permission to put tolls on I-95 to help pay for it's overhaul several years ago, but they made it so controversial with several toll points through the state that upset locals.

How simple it would have been to put one $5 toll at the borders with VA and SC. That would avoid tolling NC locals. but no.

sprjus4

^
They have over 50 miles of 8 lane widening planned to be complete by 2026.

The projects are slowly progressing without tolls, around 25% of the length through the state will be done with these 3 upcoming projects.

architect77

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 24, 2020, 11:26:02 AM
^
They have over 50 miles of 8 lane widening planned to be complete by 2026.

The projects are slowly progressing without tolls, around 25% of the length through the state will be done with these 3 upcoming projects.

Yes, I-95 through NC made a top 25 list for urgent infrastructure needs that was given priority by the Trump administration. Will we be alive to see I-95 finished through the state? It will take 30-50 more years. I-40/I-85 duplex is only 40-60 miles or so and that took almost a decade to complete.

goobnav

Quote from: architect77 on September 24, 2020, 10:53:22 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 23, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 14, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 14, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
^This. It should have been I-640 from the get-go, and I have no clue what NCDOT was thinking when they applied for I-540 since they must have been planning the full beltway, but at this point they need to just leave it 540 and one day convince AASHTO to let them make it all I-540 when/if tolls go away in however many decades.

Considering Illinois is getting an electronic toll only I-490, NCDOT should try for the switch at the next meeting.  If AASHTO won't let them make the switch then seek an congressional override.

That would set a terrific precedent...  It's not like we would ever end up with something like an I-99 in Pennsylvania because of some politician's whim...


NCDOT did have permission to put tolls on I-95 to help pay for it's overhaul several years ago, but they made it so controversial with several toll points through the state that upset locals.

How simple it would have been to put one $5 toll at the borders with VA and SC. That would avoid tolling NC locals. but no.

The people coming from out of state would bypass by taking 301, they debunked that proposal the first month it was proposed.
Life is a highway and I drive it all night long!

sprjus4

#136
^

I'd rather see the remainder of I-95 widened the same way the first 50 miles are going to soon be proceeding - with traditional funding methods that avoid the use of tolling.

While ideally all of I-95 gets widened to a minimum of 6 lanes, the first 3 projects will address the worst areas, doubling their capacity, and easily achieving free-flow during the most busiest weekends where they're now congested. The other areas carry overall less traffic that's mostly only through traffic (such as Fayetteville Bypass, north of Kenly, and south of Lumberton), that while they will eventually be widened to 6 lanes, are less of an immediate need.

My guess is the next section to be widened will be the Fayetteville Bypass, the last section planned for 8 lanes, then phased out for 6 lane widening on the remaining segments over the next couple / few decades.

Georgia's I-95 6 lane widening took around 20 years to be fully complete, and that was only around 110 miles, as opposed to North Carolina's 180 miles. North Carolina will be completing 50 miles of 8 lane widening in around 6 years, and if continuing the pace for future years (i.e. more segments are funded and designed over the next decade), could have over 100 miles done by mid to late 2030, early 2040, with the rest being complete before 2050.

It won't make much of an impact on the grand scheme of things, but the completion of I-87 between Norfolk and Williamston, the New Bern Bypass, the Carolina Bays Pkwy extension, and widening the remainder of US-17 to 4 lanes throughout the state could result in diversion of 5,000 or more AADT in future decades which could ease slight pressure on I-95 and provide an adequate alternative route for north-south traffic.

LM117

Quote from: goobnav on September 25, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 24, 2020, 10:53:22 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 23, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 14, 2020, 09:36:58 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 14, 2020, 04:15:08 PM
^This. It should have been I-640 from the get-go, and I have no clue what NCDOT was thinking when they applied for I-540 since they must have been planning the full beltway, but at this point they need to just leave it 540 and one day convince AASHTO to let them make it all I-540 when/if tolls go away in however many decades.

Considering Illinois is getting an electronic toll only I-490, NCDOT should try for the switch at the next meeting.  If AASHTO won't let them make the switch then seek an congressional override.

That would set a terrific precedent...  It's not like we would ever end up with something like an I-99 in Pennsylvania because of some politician's whim...


NCDOT did have permission to put tolls on I-95 to help pay for it's overhaul several years ago, but they made it so controversial with several toll points through the state that upset locals.

How simple it would have been to put one $5 toll at the borders with VA and SC. That would avoid tolling NC locals. but no.

The people coming from out of state would bypass by taking 301, they debunked that proposal the first month it was proposed.

Yep, and the small towns along 301 knew it, which is why they were pissed when the tolls were proposed.

Another strike against tolling I-95 is that it runs through some of the poorest areas of the state. Any ENC politician that supports tolls in ENC would be committing political suicide.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

The Ghostbuster

After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?

I-55

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?

Along with US-74 in Monroe
Let's Go Purdue Basketball Whoosh

wdcrft63

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
You forgot the US 74 Monroe Expressway. The NC Turnpike Authority's web site has a Potential Projects section but the only items listed are express lane projects on existing expressways (I-77, US 74, I-40).
https://www.ncdot.gov/divisions/turnpike/turnpike-projects/Pages/default.aspx

sprjus4

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.

architect77

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

sprjus4

^
Wasn't the original plan for a free beltway? They already "broke that promise" when they made it a toll road.

goobnav

Quote from: architect77 on September 26, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

The government ending a revenue stream!?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  Yeah, that's a good one.  They'll figure out a way to keep that revenue coming and other ways to get it from other road sources.  Unless there is a complete change in government personnel.
Life is a highway and I drive it all night long!

The Ghostbuster

How could I have forgotten about the Bypass US 74 Monroe Bypass Toll Road? I must be getting old!

architect77

Quote from: goobnav on September 28, 2020, 10:05:23 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 26, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

The government ending a revenue stream!?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  Yeah, that's a good one.  They'll figure out a way to keep that revenue coming and other ways to get it from other road sources.  Unless there is a complete change in government personnel.
Quote from: goobnav on September 28, 2020, 10:05:23 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 26, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

The government ending a revenue stream!?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  Yeah, that's a good one.  They'll figure out a way to keep that revenue coming and other ways to get it from other road sources.  Unless there is a complete change in government personnel.

There is no past precident for you to doubt NC keeping its promise unlike other states that have found excuses to prolong which deeply erodes trust that citizens rememeber for decades. NC will follow Virginia's lead when they removed the I-95 tolls through Richmond after that debt was paid. It was a 25 cents at a few locations through Petersburg and Richmond back in the 80s.

NC Turnpike Authority has seized lower interest rates and refinanced 540 more than a couple of times shaving off tens of millions in interest costs.

sprjus4

Quote from: architect77 on September 28, 2020, 09:51:05 PM
There is no past precident for you to doubt NC keeping its promise unlike other states that have found excuses to prolong which deeply erodes trust that citizens rememeber for decades. NC will follow Virginia's lead when they removed the I-95 tolls through Richmond after that debt was paid. It was a 25 cents at a few locations through Petersburg and Richmond back in the 80s.
VDOT also removed tolls on the I-64 HRBT in the 1970s, Downtown / Midtown Tunnels in Norfolk-Portsmouth in the 1980s, and along I-264 / then VA-44 in the 1990s.

However, tolls were recently reinstated on the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels in 2014 to pay for the $2 billion parallel tunnel project on the Midtown Tunnel (no major improvements to the Downtown Tunnel, but that also got tolled), and tolls are still being collected on the Dulles Toll Road despite being paid off years ago. They are being kept to pay for a non-road project, the Silver Line extension to the Dulles Airport.

Not VDOT per se, but the city of Chesapeake has also extended the tolling period on the VA-168 Chesapeake Expressway built in 2001 from around 2032 to at least 2051 to help fund another toll project in the city, the US-17 Dominion Blvd expansion, which began tolling in 2017. The city "merged" operations which helps in paying off Dominion Blvd sooner (2051 as opposed to future years), but requires tolls on the Expressway to remain an additional 20. The $116 million project (VA-168) has already collected close to $200 million in revenue. With growing needs for eventual widening of VA-168 in its northern, toll free section, it's likely these tolls may be extended further to fund such a potential project.

goobnav

Quote from: architect77 on September 28, 2020, 09:51:05 PM
Quote from: goobnav on September 28, 2020, 10:05:23 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 26, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

The government ending a revenue stream!?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  Yeah, that's a good one.  They'll figure out a way to keep that revenue coming and other ways to get it from other road sources.  Unless there is a complete change in government personnel.
Quote from: goobnav on September 28, 2020, 10:05:23 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 26, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

The government ending a revenue stream!?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  Yeah, that's a good one.  They'll figure out a way to keep that revenue coming and other ways to get it from other road sources.  Unless there is a complete change in government personnel.

There is no past precident for you to doubt NC keeping its promise unlike other states that have found excuses to prolong which deeply erodes trust that citizens rememeber for decades. NC will follow Virginia's lead when they removed the I-95 tolls through Richmond after that debt was paid. It was a 25 cents at a few locations through Petersburg and Richmond back in the 80s.

NC Turnpike Authority has seized lower interest rates and refinanced 540 more than a couple of times shaving off tens of millions in interest costs.

Sorry biased here, being a PA native and seeing the PA Turnpike Authority coming up with more and more ways to keep the streams flowing and that once the taste is given to government, they usually go for the whole drink. 

With new tech that makes collecting tolls easier, E-tolling by plate and transponder or tag, getting a new system up and running would not be cost prohibitive as it was when physical toll takers were needed.  This trend has started in NC and I have only seen it morph to other states.  Even the illustrious PA Turnpike Authority is in process of destroying the Toll Takers and their so-called protected Union jobs in the name of revenue.

So, nothing will be surprising at this point.
Life is a highway and I drive it all night long!

architect77

Quote from: goobnav on September 30, 2020, 09:28:45 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 28, 2020, 09:51:05 PM
Quote from: goobnav on September 28, 2020, 10:05:23 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 26, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

The government ending a revenue stream!?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  Yeah, that's a good one.  They'll figure out a way to keep that revenue coming and other ways to get it from other road sources.  Unless there is a complete change in government personnel.
Quote from: goobnav on September 28, 2020, 10:05:23 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 26, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 25, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
After the Interstate 540/NC 540 beltway is finally finished, does anyone see the state constructing or converting any additional roads to tollways? Or will 540 and the southern segment of 147 remain the only ones?
US-74 Monroe Expressway is also a toll road.

HO/T lanes along I-77 opened last year, and around 20 miles are currently under construction along I-485.
Northern 540 will remain free and the Southern half will stop tolling once the bonds are paid in full. I trust that NC won't break that promise which can erode the public trust for decades after one broken promise .

The government ending a revenue stream!?!?!?!?  LOL!!!  Yeah, that's a good one.  They'll figure out a way to keep that revenue coming and other ways to get it from other road sources.  Unless there is a complete change in government personnel.

There is no past precident for you to doubt NC keeping its promise unlike other states that have found excuses to prolong which deeply erodes trust that citizens rememeber for decades. NC will follow Virginia's lead when they removed the I-95 tolls through Richmond after that debt was paid. It was a 25 cents at a few locations through Petersburg and Richmond back in the 80s.

NC Turnpike Authority has seized lower interest rates and refinanced 540 more than a couple of times shaving off tens of millions in interest costs.

Sorry biased here, being a PA native and seeing the PA Turnpike Authority coming up with more and more ways to keep the streams flowing and that once the taste is given to government, they usually go for the whole drink. 

With new tech that makes collecting tolls easier, E-tolling by plate and transponder or tag, getting a new system up and running would not be cost prohibitive as it was when physical toll takers were needed.  This trend has started in NC and I have only seen it morph to other states.  Even the illustrious PA Turnpike Authority is in process of destroying the Toll Takers and their so-called protected Union jobs in the name of revenue.

So, nothing will be surprising at this point.

NC has a history of being pretty true blue as far as looking out for the citizens. In fact, the underlying theme the state has pursued since its humble early days is to lift all 100 counties out of poverty and bring prosperity for all citizens. Road building is an instrument used heavily although not always successsful.

But Pennsylvania has so much in common with NC, the two states with the highest rural populations, and PA has a buttload of roads which are reaching the end of their service life of the original building and this translates to not enough funding to replace thousands of bridges and maintain tens of thousands of miles of roads, many rural. That has been difficult for Pennsylvania to afford and cold weather  is harder on the infrastructure too, thus exacerbating the problem.

I don't know how long you've been in NC but in my 50 years I've always been proud of the state goverment's prudent spending and there is not corruption entrenched like there is in many other states like Illinois and Georgia.

has had a few bad government officials over the years but they are the exception not the norm.

NCDOT must know how to squeeze a nickel until the buffaloe poops ( from Golden Girls) to maintain over 80,000 miles of roads in NC for 2/5 of their $6 billion annual budget. 3/5 goes to new construction and improvements.

i bet PA spends twice that much a year and still can't cover everything.



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