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[mgk920]

Don't forget that that second fumble recovery for a TD that was overturned on a replay review that favored the Eagles, so the 'bad' calls went both ways and the Chiefs were the better team.  BTW, how many new joints will Mahomes be getting during this off-season?

Mike

[NWI_Irish96]

Roughing the passer tends to get called very closely to the letter of the rule for more established quarterbacks and much less closely for younger quarterbacks.

Historically good offensive teams also get more benefit of the doubt when it comes to defensive holding and pass interference.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all

For this year, here are the RTP calls by quarterback:
Goff (28) - 6 RTP calls
Geno (32), Cousins (34) - 5
Brissett (30), Tannehill (34), Wilson (34) - 4
Herbert (24), Burrow (26), Mariota (29), Allen (26), Rodgers (38) - 3
Hurts (24), Trubisky (28), Garoppolo (31), Mayfield (27), Prescott (29), Mahomes (27), Dalton (35), Wentz (30), Brady (45), Stafford (35) - 2
Ryan (37), Carr (31), Watson (27), Lamar (26), Henne (37), D. Jones (25), Colt McCoy (36), Taysom Hill (32) - 1

Mahomes and Brady with only 2 each hurts the narrative.

The average age of starting QBs this year was about 28.5. If we add up all the ages of all the RTP calls (i.e. 28x6 for Goff + 32x5 for Geno + 34x5 for Kirk and so on,) and divide that by the total number of RTP calls (71), we get 30.8. That's just a two year gap that can easily be explained by older quarterbacks simply being less mobile, and therefore easier to sack, and therefore likely to be sacked more often, and therefore likely to get more RTP calls because there is more potential for illegal sacks.
[/quote]

It's not just quantity. QBs on worse teams are going to get hit a lot more, so their RTP calls should be higher.

[thspfc]

Roughing the passer tends to get called very closely to the letter of the rule for more established quarterbacks and much less closely for younger quarterbacks.

Historically good offensive teams also get more benefit of the doubt when it comes to defensive holding and pass interference.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all

For this year, here are the RTP calls by quarterback:
Goff (28) - 6 RTP calls
Geno (32), Cousins (34) - 5
Brissett (30), Tannehill (34), Wilson (34) - 4
Herbert (24), Burrow (26), Mariota (29), Allen (26), Rodgers (38) - 3
Hurts (24), Trubisky (28), Garoppolo (31), Mayfield (27), Prescott (29), Mahomes (27), Dalton (35), Wentz (30), Brady (45), Stafford (35) - 2
Ryan (37), Carr (31), Watson (27), Lamar (26), Henne (37), D. Jones (25), Colt McCoy (36), Taysom Hill (32) - 1

Mahomes and Brady with only 2 each hurts the narrative.

The average age of starting QBs this year was about 28.5. If we add up all the ages of all the RTP calls (i.e. 28x6 for Goff + 32x5 for Geno + 34x5 for Kirk and so on,) and divide that by the total number of RTP calls (71), we get 30.8. That's just a two year gap that can easily be explained by older quarterbacks simply being less mobile, and therefore easier to sack, and therefore likely to be sacked more often, and therefore likely to get more RTP calls because there is more potential for illegal sacks.

It's not just quantity. QBs on worse teams are going to get hit a lot more, so their RTP calls should be higher.

And how does that relate to your point?

[thspfc]

Historically good offensive teams also get more benefit of the doubt when it comes to defensive holding and pass interference.

I don't feel like typing an essay on this, but here's the data: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-pass-interference?year=2022&view=team_per_game

And right away you see that the Chiefs were - drumroll - #1 in PI calls on their defense, and #32 in PI calls benefiting their offense.

PI is both the most significant and the most subjective penalty in football. And the Chiefs are the team hurt the most by it. Am I implying that the refs are purposely against the Chiefs? Absolutely not. But the evidence is crystal clear that the Chiefs have not been favored at all by the refs this year.

[dvferyance]

Now you can add Mahomes to the list of qb's that have more super bowl rings than Rodgers. I can't believe anyone could even argue Rodgers being the best of all time with just one super bowl ring.

[epzik8]

Now you can add Mahomes to the list of qb's that have more super bowl rings than Rodgers. I can't believe anyone could even argue Rodgers being the best of all time with just one super bowl ring.

Rings should not be the only metric for determining a good quarterback.

[1]

Rings should not be the only metric for determining a good quarterback.

Except for ones named Sonic.

[Henry]

Safe to say, this is Patrick Mahomes' league. He probably won't touch any of Tom Brady's records (and he's still five behind in Super Bowl championships), but it goes without saying that he's going to be the most dominant QB for many more years to come.

[Max Rockatansky]

One U of M Quarterback seems to know to quit when you’re on top:

https://sports.yahoo.com/2023-super-bowl-chiefs-backup-qb-chad-henne-rides-into-sunset-announces-retirement-after-win-over-eagles-060720798.html

[jgb191]

The dilemma of all-time:  Retire as a champion or defend your title?  One may argue to quit while you're on top, while someone else may argue to keep defending your title as long as you're the champion.  So which is the right decision?

[amroad17]

The dilemma of all-time:  Retire as a champion or defend your title?  One may argue to quit while you're on top, while someone else may argue to keep defending your title as long as you're the champion.  So which is the right decision?

It depends on the individual player's psyche, attitude, and finances.  I, myself, would choose to retire as a champion if I was in my mid 30's when it happened and if I played any professional sport.  I might have done it if I was 29 if I were a pro football player.

[amroad17]

Now you can add Mahomes to the list of qb's that have more super bowl rings than Rodgers. I can't believe anyone could even argue Rodgers being the best of all time with just one super bowl ring.

Rings should not be the only metric for determining a good quarterback.

Yes, the QB's are tagged with win-loss-tied records, like they are the reason a team wins, loses, or ties.  This is similar to pitchers in baseball as if they play all defensive positions and hit in all nine spots. 

It is a team game.  All facets have to be hitting on all cylinders to be a champion.  Look at great HOF QB's who never won a Super Bowl: Sonny Jurgensen, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly, and Fran Tarkenton.  There are QB's that have won one: Joe Namath, Len Dawson, Johnny Unitas (even though he was injured early in Super Bowl V and Earl Morrall finished the game), Ken Stabler, Joe Theismann, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Steve Young (as a starter), Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, and the aforementioned Aaron Rodgers.

It is a team effort to win championships.  Yes, it helps to have a very good or excellent QB, however, he is not the only reason championships are won.  It is the media that seems to be enamored with how many rings a QB has as the metric, with the gullible sports fans blindly following that edict.

[webny99]

One interesting fact about Mahomes' already storied career is that he has never played a true road playoff game. In 14 playoff appearances, he's had 11 home games and 3 neutral site Super Bowls (I know SB LV was technically a home game for the Bucs, but that was unprecedented at the time, the crowd was way smaller than usual due to the pandemic, and the Chiefs lost by 20 points so we never got to see if that would have impacted a close game).

I really hope that streak of Mahomes not playing on the road comes to an end next year, as it's always a harder path when you have to win on the road. I'm actually much more annoyed by the Chiefs hosting the championship five straight years than I am by them winning another Super Bowl.

It's been great to see five different teams get a chance to host the NFC title game the last five years. In fact half (8 of 16) NFC teams have hosted a title game in the last decade. Meanwhile, the AFC couldn't be a more different story with the Patriots and now the Chiefs. Only three teams in the last decade, five teams in the last two decades, and you have to go back 30 years to the Bills in 1993 (!!) to find 8 different teams who have hosted. I really hope some other AFC teams will make it happen next season. It obviously starts with the Chargers (or maybe Broncos, who knows) knocking off the Chiefs in the division, but if that doesn't happen, maybe the Bills or Bengals or someone can close out the #1 seed.

[NWI_Irish96]

One interesting fact about Mahomes' already storied career is that he has never played a true road playoff game. In 14 playoff appearances, he's had 11 home games and 3 neutral site Super Bowls (I know SB LV was technically a home game for the Bucs, but that was unprecedented at the time, the crowd was way smaller than usual due to the pandemic, and the Chiefs lost by 20 points so we never got to see if that would have impacted a close game).

I really hope that streak of Mahomes not playing on the road comes to an end next year, as it's always a harder path when you have to win on the road. I'm actually much more annoyed by the Chiefs hosting the championship five straight years than I am by them winning another Super Bowl.

It's been great to see five different teams get a chance to host the NFC title game the last five years. In fact half (8 of 16) NFC teams have hosted a title game in the last decade. Meanwhile, the AFC couldn't be a more different story with the Patriots and now the Chiefs. Only three teams in the last decade, five teams in the last two decades, and you have to go back 30 years to the Bills in 1993 (!!) to find 8 different teams who have hosted. I really hope some other AFC teams will make it happen next season. It obviously starts with the Chargers (or maybe Broncos, who knows) knocking off the Chiefs in the division, but if that doesn't happen, maybe the Bills or Bengals or someone can close out the #1 seed.

Don't sleep on Jacksonville to be the team to knock the Chiefs out of the #1 seed. Trevor Lawrence improved a bunch this past season, and the AFC South gets to play the NFC South in 2023.

[ethanhopkin14]

I was thinking about Tom Brady's tenure and there are a few interesting notes.  His first season (2000 albeit a backup) was Troy Aikman's last and Jerry Rice had four more years left.  He was one year removed from Steve Young and Dan Marino.  That season, the NFL had one less team than they do today.  That season, the Patriots, who still played at Foxboro (or Shafer or Sullivan) Stadium, also played that season at Giants Stadium, Mile High Stadium, The RCA Dome and The Silverdome, making him the last active player to have played at those stadiums.  He also played at the current Hard Rock Stadium when it was Pro Player Stadium and is the last player to have played there when it was named Pro Player and might possibly be the last player to have played there when it was in that configuration and was still a baseball field.  The Patriots also played at Soldier Field in 2000, pre-spaceship, so he is the last active player to have played in the original Soldier Field.  With all of those notes, he is the last active player to have played NFL games on the original Astroturf.  There are of course others; I am sure he is the last active player to have played at Texas Stadium and The Georgia Dome.  In his first season, nine teams played in baseball/football stadiums (either currently at the time or at once housed both).  He is also the last active player to have played when the NFL had its old logo.  He is the last active player to have played when the Seahawks had only worn one uniform in their existence.  He is the last active player to have played when the officials' uniform was the 2" stripes and the last to be officiated by Bernie Kukar.  I am pretty sure he is the last active player that started his career when games were still broadcast on standard definition and is the last player to have played when games were broadcast over the air on analog airwaves, when Pat Summerall and John Madden were a broadcasting team and when Monday Night Football was aired on ABC. 

I know some of those tidbits are obscure, but it just showed you the world that existed when Tom Brady entered the league and the world right now when he has "left" the league.  Feels like centuries, not 24 seasons. 

[webny99]

Don't sleep on Jacksonville to be the team to knock the Chiefs out of the #1 seed. Trevor Lawrence improved a bunch this past season, and the AFC South gets to play the NFC South in 2023.

Absolutely. It's way too early, but right now I would have Jacksonville as the front-runner for "most likely to win their division in 2023". There's an argument for them over the Bills (who have a very tough division now), Chiefs (who always play close games with the Chargers and barely beat the head-coach-less Broncos), and especially the Bengals (who went 3-3 in the AFC North last year).

And there's certainly no NFC teams that stand out as a heavy division favorite. At least 12 or 13 of them have to be thinking they can win their division in 2023.

[dvferyance]

Don't sleep on Jacksonville to be the team to knock the Chiefs out of the #1 seed. Trevor Lawrence improved a bunch this past season, and the AFC South gets to play the NFC South in 2023.

Absolutely. It's way too early, but right now I would have Jacksonville as the front-runner for "most likely to win their division in 2023". There's an argument for them over the Bills (who have a very tough division now), Chiefs (who always play close games with the Chargers and barely beat the head-coach-less Broncos), and especially the Bengals (who went 3-3 in the AFC North last year).

And there's certainly no NFC teams that stand out as a heavy division favorite. At least 12 or 13 of them have to be thinking they can win their division in 2023.

The Bills are going to be the next Chargers team. A team that contends every year but never reaches the super bowl. Josh Allen is the next Phillip Rivers.

[webny99]

The Bills are going to be the next Chargers team. A team that contends every year but never reaches the super bowl. Josh Allen is the next Phillip Rivers.

Well, thanks a lot! 

I would think the actual Chargers would have first dibs on that role - they have arguably underperformed even more in the past 2-3 seasons.

[Scott5114]

One interesting fact about Mahomes' already storied career is that he has never played a true road playoff game.

Well, yeah, he's Mahomes, not Maways.

[webny99]

One interesting fact about Mahomes' already storied career is that he has never played a true road playoff game.

Well, yeah, he's Mahomes, not Maways.

Wow! Between this and the Nevada thing... you're on a roll. 

[dvferyance]

The Bills are going to be the next Chargers team. A team that contends every year but never reaches the super bowl. Josh Allen is the next Phillip Rivers.

Well, thanks a lot! 

I would think the actual Chargers would have first dibs on that role - they have arguably underperformed even more in the past 2-3 seasons.

Just being a realist. They had such a great season and did not even make it to the AFC championship game. Just like the Chargers from the 2000's.

[webny99]

The Bills are going to be the next Chargers team. A team that contends every year but never reaches the super bowl. Josh Allen is the next Phillip Rivers.

Well, thanks a lot! 

I would think the actual Chargers would have first dibs on that role - they have arguably underperformed even more in the past 2-3 seasons.

Just being a realist. They had such a great season and did not even make it to the AFC championship game. Just like the Chargers from the 2000's.

Yes, it is obviously concerning that it's happened two years in a row. That was probably the least enjoyable 13-win season in NFL history (although the Packers might have something to say about that). A little less hype in 2023 would certainly be for the better.

[epzik8]

It looks like we got Eric Bieniemy.

[webny99]

I used up my yearly allotment of massive posts in this thread already, so I'm not going to do another one looking ahead to 2023, but just putting this here to mark the unofficial end of one season and start of another. It will be another offseason of intrigue in the NFL, with more Aaron Rodgers drama and a lot of teams in search of a new QB, so if anyone has any pre-free agency/pre-draft thoughts or takes, feel free to share.

[1995hoo]

Surprising absolutely no one, the Commanders just released Carson Wentz.