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NFL (2024 Season)

Started by webny99, February 04, 2020, 02:35:53 PM

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TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on February 08, 2023, 07:38:40 PM
It was a little interesting to see the NFL follow the other major pro sports leagues in adding a skills competition.

This isn't the first time they've had a skills competition; they've had them on and off over the years, generally not nearly as prominently featured as this one was (in the past it was little more than Saturday afternoon filler programming type stuff).
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epzik8

Quote from: webny99 on February 08, 2023, 08:44:15 PM
Best Pro Bowl fun fact: Tyler Huntley threw 2 more touchdowns at the Pro Bowl than he did in the regular season.   :-D

I still think the Ravens will work things out with Lamar.
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I likely won't be watching tomorrow's big game here: https://goo.gl/maps/HHu6XfFUm9haykDg7 but the thought was dancing around in my mind.  OTOH, that place is on the city's far northeastern periphery, while my favorite sports bar ('The Bar') is a two or so block walk from my residence here in downtown Appleton and the weather guys are expecting it to be a very nice day.

Mike

NWI_Irish96

Not going to make a specific prediction because of Mahomes' status. I think the Chiefs win if he's 100%, but if not I don't see how they can score enough against Philly's defense.
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KeithE4Phx

This was one of the best Super Bowls ever.  The Eagles didn't lose; they were beat by the better team.  They don't have to hang their head in shame for any reason.
"Oh, so you hate your job? Well, why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called "EVERYBODY!" They meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey

thspfc

Highly questionable call at the end. The game was not rigged. If you think it was, you didn't watch it or you're clueless about the rules. I felt that a lot of the close calls were going to Philly - the one at the end went to KC, so obviously the game must have been rigged for the Chiefs. FWIW, JuJu clearly accelerated once Bradberry withdrew his hand. That doesn't necessarily mean it was holding, but I think that's what the ref saw.

Always knew Kadarius Toney had it. I remember a couple plays of his from a Monday night game against the Bucs in 2021 that blew me away. That punt return to set up the Chiefs 5th touchdown was crazy.

Here comes an offseason of Lamar Jackson drama, Rodgers drama for the 3rd straight year, and wondering where Bryce Young and CJ Stroud will land.

webny99

#4081
That was an great Super Bowl until the very end. It was back and forth, had a lot of scoring, a defensive score, a comeback factor, and came down to the wire. I hate to be the millionth person to say this, but that call at the end does unfortunately ruin it as a potential all-time classic. That simply cannot happen in that spot, three days after Goodell says officiating has never been better.

CoreySamson

Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2023, 10:46:22 PM
That was an great Super Bowl until the very end. It was back and forth, had a lot of scoring, a defensive score, a comeback factor, and came down to the wire. I hate to be the millionth person to say this, but that call at the end does unfortunately ruin it as a potential all-time classic. That simply cannot happen in that spot, three days after Goodell says officiating has never been better.
The thing was before that one call, the officials did a tremendous job letting both teams play IMO. But that one holding call, man...I would be pissed if I were an Eagles fan.
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Billy F 1988

I guess we better petition to the head of officiating to call those refs up and lock them in a room Monday and find out how that call at the end of the game was allowed to go like it did because I can assure you, if I was heading the refs, heads be rolling, bruh! Otherwise, great effort by both Philly and KC. KC obviously gets the W, but oh boy, that call at the end. Can't say that ruined it totally, but it sure ruined a fruitful moment as the clock runs to all zeros.

Goodell on the other hand? Can I say that he's become the Brian France of the NFL? I mean, the methodology behind him is out of whack at times. No wonder people boo him during Draft Week.
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jmacswimmer

Quote from: CoreySamson on February 12, 2023, 10:58:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2023, 10:46:22 PM
That was an great Super Bowl until the very end. It was back and forth, had a lot of scoring, a defensive score, a comeback factor, and came down to the wire. I hate to be the millionth person to say this, but that call at the end does unfortunately ruin it as a potential all-time classic. That simply cannot happen in that spot, three days after Goodell says officiating has never been better.
The thing was before that one call, the officials did a tremendous job letting both teams play IMO. But that one holding call, man...I would be pissed if I were an Eagles fan.

Oh, they (understandably) are. My wife hails from Delaware originally, so her social media (and to a lesser extent, mine) is currently filled with angry posts about that holding call. I think Greg Olsen nailed it with his take immediately afterward that sure maybe it was technically holding, but they should've let it go as they'd been doing all game up to that point. (Great job by Burkhardt & Olsen in their first Superbowl by the way, IMHO).

Another common point I'm seeing from some Philly fans: The Eagles seemed to be having a far bigger issue sliding around on the turf than the Chiefs, to the point of several Eagles players changing cleats early on (which Erin Andrews briefly mentioned from the sideline).
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thspfc


Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: CoreySamson on February 12, 2023, 10:58:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2023, 10:46:22 PM
That was an great Super Bowl until the very end. It was back and forth, had a lot of scoring, a defensive score, a comeback factor, and came down to the wire. I hate to be the millionth person to say this, but that call at the end does unfortunately ruin it as a potential all-time classic. That simply cannot happen in that spot, three days after Goodell says officiating has never been better.
The thing was before that one call, the officials did a tremendous job letting both teams play IMO. But that one holding call, man...I would be pissed if I were an Eagles fan.

Just so you know, there are, at least, two Eagles fans on here. Myself and Jeffandnicole.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 13, 2023, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 12, 2023, 10:58:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2023, 10:46:22 PM
That was an great Super Bowl until the very end. It was back and forth, had a lot of scoring, a defensive score, a comeback factor, and came down to the wire. I hate to be the millionth person to say this, but that call at the end does unfortunately ruin it as a potential all-time classic. That simply cannot happen in that spot, three days after Goodell says officiating has never been better.
The thing was before that one call, the officials did a tremendous job letting both teams play IMO. But that one holding call, man...I would be pissed if I were an Eagles fan.

Just so you know, there are, at least, two Eagles fans on here. Myself and Jeffandnicole.
Probably a few more. This forum is very northeast heavy. Also, I think that the call wasn't awful but people's minds are a bit clouded because they wanted a more exciting ending, which I got. Was a bit of a ticky-tacky hold however.
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jeffandnicole

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 13, 2023, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 12, 2023, 10:58:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2023, 10:46:22 PM
That was an great Super Bowl until the very end. It was back and forth, had a lot of scoring, a defensive score, a comeback factor, and came down to the wire. I hate to be the millionth person to say this, but that call at the end does unfortunately ruin it as a potential all-time classic. That simply cannot happen in that spot, three days after Goodell says officiating has never been better.
The thing was before that one call, the officials did a tremendous job letting both teams play IMO. But that one holding call, man...I would be pissed if I were an Eagles fan.

Just so you know, there are, at least, two Eagles fans on here. Myself and Jeffandnicole.

And yeah, I never want to say it was one play, one call, one anything, but man did that holding call at the end sting.  Did he pull on his jersey? I mean, we see the post above, but I don't think we even saw the jersey twitch, much less it getting yanked.  That was as ticky-tacky a call as one could make at that point in the game.

The Eagles gave up 38 points.  1 on a fumble return, one nearly on a punt return.  We recovered on the fumble return to still have a nice halftime lead going into the second half, but fell flat just after halftime.  The Eagles have given up plenty of points in the second half throughout the season due to playing a softer defense.  If they didn't give up points, they gave up yards.  The same thing happened here, and it cost us.

One stat I saw, which without looking further is probably true:  The 35 points the Eagles scored is the most scored by a losing team in the Super Bowl. 

It stings more, personally, that while we finally got our first Super Bowl victory in 2018, we are still stuck with that one.  A great season that came crashing to an end in the final 30 minutes of the game. 

Many people have said it, and it's true...it would've been better to lose a poorly played game than a game where a questionable penalty may have lost it for us.

KCRoadFan

Congrats Chiefs on an exciting Super Bowl win!!!!!

jgb191

#4090
If Phoenix doesn't get any rain, then how did the field become so slippery??  Somebody forgot to shut off the water hose until right before the game or something?

I can take some comfort that the Super Bowl Champions KC Chiefs needed extra mins in OT to pull off a lucky win against my Texans in Week 15, which goes to show that any team can be competitive in the NFL no matter its record.
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Ted$8roadFan

It was a great Super Bowl from start to finish. Congrats to the Chiefs; condolences to the Eagles. Patrick Mahoomes was Brady-esque. Jalen Hurts was phenomenal as well. I would be POd too if I were an Eagles fan by the late holding call, but the offending Eagle (James Bradberry) admitted it was holding. Also, Hurts's fumble recovery for a Chiefs TD in the second quarter had more to do with their loss.

NWI_Irish96

I only saw two questionable calls/no calls in this game. There was a play in the first half that was clear DPI on the Eagles not called, then there was the very weak hold that got called at the end.

In the end, the Eagles had the overall better team, but the Chiefs had the more experienced head coach and QB and that made the difference.
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thspfc

#4093
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 12:48:03 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on February 13, 2023, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on February 12, 2023, 10:58:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 12, 2023, 10:46:22 PM
That was an great Super Bowl until the very end. It was back and forth, had a lot of scoring, a defensive score, a comeback factor, and came down to the wire. I hate to be the millionth person to say this, but that call at the end does unfortunately ruin it as a potential all-time classic. That simply cannot happen in that spot, three days after Goodell says officiating has never been better.
The thing was before that one call, the officials did a tremendous job letting both teams play IMO. But that one holding call, man...I would be pissed if I were an Eagles fan.

Just so you know, there are, at least, two Eagles fans on here. Myself and Jeffandnicole.

And yeah, I never want to say it was one play, one call, one anything, but man did that holding call at the end sting.  Did he pull on his jersey? I mean, we see the post above, but I don't think we even saw the jersey twitch, much less it getting yanked.  That was as ticky-tacky a call as one could make at that point in the game.
https://i.imgur.com/QvLlDll.jpg

They didn't show this angle on the broadcast. The jersey pull is clear, and keep in mind, this is the angle the ref was looking at when he threw the flag. By the rules, it is holding, but I agree that the refs shouldn't have called something so slight after not calling any defensive holding the entire game. Maybe there had legitimately been no defensive holding committed at all before that play, but it seems unlikely. So that's what makes it a highly questionable call, but not an outright incorrect one.

NWI_Irish96

As video has improved, the NFL's officiating problems have increased. There has always been a disconnect between the letter of the rule and what is customarily called for most penalties.

Roughing the passer tends to get called very closely to the letter of the rule for more established quarterbacks and much less closely for younger quarterbacks. Historically good offensive teams also get more benefit of the doubt when it comes to defensive holding and pass interference.

Replay has cleaned up the 100% black and white issues like in/out of bounds, pass/fumble, catch/no catch, but there's a lot of improvement needed.

I don't understand why face mask isn't reviewable. It's pretty black and white as to whether or not a face mask was grabbed.
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jeffandnicole

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
As video has improved, the NFL's officiating problems have increased.

The officiating problems haven't increased. We're just able to review the play more vividly to determine if the call was correct. Plus, officials have mere fractions of a second to about 2 seconds to see if a penalty did or did not occur, and there's 7 officials watching over 22 players. Slow-mo HD quality replays can be viewed for 30 seconds or more between plays, and further dissected after the game.

QuoteReplay has cleaned up the 100% black and white issues like in/out of bounds, pass/fumble, catch/no catch, but there's a lot of improvement needed.

Replay still doesn't fully 100% get the call correct, and the more close a call is, the more people will disagree on the ultimate decision. If fact, a great example occurred last night when an Eagle dropped a pass and KC returned it for a TD, only to be ruled no catch.

QuoteI don't understand why face mask isn't reviewable. It's pretty black and white as to whether or not a face mask was grabbed.

There's a number of penalties that could be reviewed because they're pretty clear on instant replay, such as offsides/encroachment/neutral zone infractions. I'm hesitant to go this route because there's currently a limited number of challenges to begin with, and fans already complain about the length of the game. Do we want it to go longer looking for every penalty, which again, fans complain too many are called and they just want the players to play the game?


ethanhopkin14

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
As video has improved, the NFL's officiating problems have increased.

The officiating problems haven't increased. We're just able to review the play more vividly to determine if the call was correct. Plus, officials have mere fractions of a second to about 2 seconds to see if a penalty did or did not occur, and there's 7 officials watching over 22 players. Slow-mo HD quality replays can be viewed for 30 seconds or more between plays, and further dissected after the game.
The reason it's a big deal now and was less of a big deal when there was zero instant replay is because the NFL has intentionally watered itself down so there is extreme parity in the league.  What you get is the possibility of every game coming down to a last-minute score.  That business model then makes every single move in the last 2 minutes of every game highly and overly scrutinized.  Remember in the pre-salary cap days when many games were decided early in the third quarter?  There were probably just as many (and maybe even more) officiating gaffes as there are now.  People just A) realized it didn't effect the outcome of the 40-12 beatdown currently occurring and B) delt with it and moved on with their lives.  I agree, there really isn't a spike or decrease in quality officiating.  They do an excellent job for what they have to deal with and the amount of time they get to make a decision.  It would be like a judge getting 2 seconds to make a determination if this guy gets to go to jail or not for armed robbery. 

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
]Replay has cleaned up the 100% black and white issues like in/out of bounds, pass/fumble, catch/no catch, but there's a lot of improvement needed.

Replay still doesn't fully 100% get the call correct, and the more close a call is, the more people will disagree on the ultimate decision. If fact, a great example occurred last night when an Eagle dropped a pass and KC returned it for a TD, only to be ruled no catch.

Agreed.  The second catch that was upheld still has me scratching my head.  Not that I think they got it wrong, just it looked almost identical to the catch Dalton Shultz made on the sideline at the end of the Cowboys/49ers playoff game.  The biggest problem with instant replay is you slow the game down to ridiculous speeds in high definition and at that moment a whole different set of physics take place to the point no one can clearly define what a catch is anymore.  I say instant replay should be full speed, maybe you get 3 looks at it and it's over, make the call.  It's like a do-over, but you still have to see it in full speed. 

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2023, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
I don't understand why face mask isn't reviewable. It's pretty black and white as to whether or not a face mask was grabbed.

There's a number of penalties that could be reviewed because they're pretty clear on instant replay, such as offsides/encroachment/neutral zone infractions. I'm hesitant to go this route because there's currently a limited number of challenges to begin with, and fans already complain about the length of the game. Do we want it to go longer looking for every penalty, which again, fans complain too many are called and they just want the players to play the game?

It's Pandora's Box at its finest.  You can't review facemask exclusively or you will then have to review everything, and if you are going to review everything, let's take the officials off the field and stick them all behind HD TVs and you play a play and then you wait for them to "grade" that play, and then assess the penalty and then move forward (because there will be like 5 fouls on every play if you really want to review penalties).  Basically, I am saying you review one foul, you review them all and what you will get is a game that every play has a foul on it and the games will take 17 hours to complete. 

Most people don't understand at all that fouls are only and completely real time relatable, and some fouls people think are open shut actually have several key factors that have to be there for it to actually be the foul they think it is.  Let's take the aforementioned facemask for example.  Most people see the hand on the facemask and want the foul.  If you actually read the rule book instead of regurgitating then same crap you heard this one guy say in this crowded loud bar sitting three stools over, then you would see that the hand must actually go inside an orifice (yes, I said orifice, meaning you can have a facemask penalty and all the guy did was grab the earhole), he has to grab the material of said orifice, and then actually pull the orifice, usually in a manner to make the tackle.  Remember, this is a 15-yard penalty so you can't have some smoke and no fire.  You better have a burning fire.  In other words, it better be bad (so no hands touching faces, no accidental grasps; no, it has to be wrapped around the facemask and the player being penalized better have ben yanking on said facemask).  There is all that that comes from the written version in the rule book (also read all the approved rulings as well) but there has to be an element of real time as well, because the game is played in real time.  You go back and slow down the film, yes it looks like the hand brushing the helmet is much worse than it really was, but in real time, I bump my head on the shower door harder than that. 

thspfc

#4097
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
Roughing the passer tends to get called very closely to the letter of the rule for more established quarterbacks and much less closely for younger quarterbacks.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all

For this year, here are the RTP calls by quarterback:
Goff (28) - 6 RTP calls
Geno (32), Cousins (34) - 5
Brissett (30), Tannehill (34), Wilson (34) - 4
Herbert (24), Burrow (26), Mariota (29), Allen (26), Rodgers (38) - 3
Hurts (24), Trubisky (28), Garoppolo (31), Mayfield (27), Prescott (29), Mahomes (27), Dalton (35), Wentz (30), Brady (45), Stafford (35) - 2
Ryan (37), Carr (31), Watson (27), Lamar (26), Henne (37), D. Jones (25), Colt McCoy (36), Taysom Hill (32) - 1

Mahomes and Brady with only 2 each hurts the narrative.

The average age of starting QBs this year was about 28.5. If we add up all the ages of all the RTP calls (i.e. 28x6 for Goff + 32x5 for Geno + 34x5 for Kirk and so on,) and divide that by the total number of RTP calls (71), we get 30.8. That's just a two year gap that can easily be explained by older quarterbacks simply being less mobile, and therefore easier to sack, and therefore likely to be sacked more often, and therefore likely to get more RTP calls because there is more potential for illegal sacks.

mgk920

Don't forget that that second fumble recovery for a TD that was overturned on a replay review that favored the Eagles, so the 'bad' calls went both ways and the Chiefs were the better team.  BTW, how many new joints will Mahomes be getting during this off-season?

Mike

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: thspfc on February 13, 2023, 11:38:52 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 13, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
Roughing the passer tends to get called very closely to the letter of the rule for more established quarterbacks and much less closely for younger quarterbacks.
Historically good offensive teams also get more benefit of the doubt when it comes to defensive holding and pass interference.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all

For this year, here are the RTP calls by quarterback:
Goff (28) - 6 RTP calls
Geno (32), Cousins (34) - 5
Brissett (30), Tannehill (34), Wilson (34) - 4
Herbert (24), Burrow (26), Mariota (29), Allen (26), Rodgers (38) - 3
Hurts (24), Trubisky (28), Garoppolo (31), Mayfield (27), Prescott (29), Mahomes (27), Dalton (35), Wentz (30), Brady (45), Stafford (35) - 2
Ryan (37), Carr (31), Watson (27), Lamar (26), Henne (37), D. Jones (25), Colt McCoy (36), Taysom Hill (32) - 1

Mahomes and Brady with only 2 each hurts the narrative.

The average age of starting QBs this year was about 28.5. If we add up all the ages of all the RTP calls (i.e. 28x6 for Goff + 32x5 for Geno + 34x5 for Kirk and so on,) and divide that by the total number of RTP calls (71), we get 30.8. That's just a two year gap that can easily be explained by older quarterbacks simply being less mobile, and therefore easier to sack, and therefore likely to be sacked more often, and therefore likely to get more RTP calls because there is more potential for illegal sacks.
[/quote]

It's not just quantity. QBs on worse teams are going to get hit a lot more, so their RTP calls should be higher.
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