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In an Alternate Universe... (Sports Edition)

Started by Henry, May 19, 2020, 11:03:19 AM

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Henry

Inspired by the recent baseball post about how the St. Louis Browns nearly moved to L.A. before the nation entered WWII and that plan was cancelled, I now have a new thread on how the sports world would look if something did or did not happen. Here's how it works:

Pick a league, and then base it off the opposite of an event that may have occurred. For example, if the Rams had never left Cleveland for L.A. in 1946...

1946: Rams stay in Cleveland

1950: Los Angeles Spartans enters league after some successful years in the rival AAFL

1960: Cardinals leave Chicago for St. Louis; Dallas Cowboys are founded as expansion team

1961: Minnesota Vikings are founded as expansion team

1964: Cardinals move to Atlanta

1966: St. Louis Archers are founded as expansion team

1967: New Orleans Saints are founded as expansion team

1970: AFL-NFL merger occurs, with Baltimore and Pittsburgh joining new AFC (Cleveland is offered a spot, but refuses), and the other remaining NFL teams reformed as the NFC

1976: Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers are founded as expansion teams

1982: Oakland Raiders move to Los Angeles

1984: Baltimore Colts' proposed move to Indianapolis is blocked, thanks to court injunction, but Archers move to Indianapolis instead, realign with AFC, and rename themselves the Checkers

1995: Carolina Panthers and Phoenix Roadrunners are founded as expansion teams (Jacksonville loses bid to Phoenix); Raiders return to Oakland, but Spartans stay in L.A.

1996: Cleveland Rams move to St. Louis, rename themselves the new Archers (a la the Winnipeg Jets)

1997: Houston Oilers move to Nashville, and don't spend any time in Memphis (they still become the Tennessee Titans in '99, like they did in real life)

1999: New Cleveland Rams team is formed; although it is an expansion team, it retains the records of the old Rams (just like the new Browns retained the records of the original team that moved to Baltimore in '96 and became the Ravens)

2002: Houston Texans are founded as expansion team; Seahawks remain in AFC

2017: San Diego Chargers move to Los Angeles

2020: Oakland Raiders move to Las Vegas

ALTERNATE REALITY NFL

NFC EAST: Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins
NFC NORTH: Chicago Bears, Cleveland Rams, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers
NFC SOUTH: Atlanta Cardinals, Carolina Panthers, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
NFC WEST: Los Angeles Spartans, Minnesota Vikings, San Francisco 49ers, St. Louis Archers

AFC EAST: Buffalo Bills, Miami Dolphins, New England Patriots, New York Jets
AFC NORTH: Baltimore Colts, Cincinnati Bengals, Indianapolis Checkers, Pittsburgh Steelers
AFC SOUTH: Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, Phoenix Roadrunners, Tennessee Titans
AFC WEST: Denver Broncos, Las Vegas Raiders, Los Angeles Chargers, Seattle Seahawks

The seven bolded teams have had their histories rewritten to fit the format of this timeline.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!


Max Rockatansky

How about the Chargers never leave Los Angeles in the first place and the Raiders have to stay in Oakland?

NWI_Irish96

#2
I did my version, beginning with the Rams not leaving Cleveland in 1946.

1949: Boston Yanks move to LA instead of New York and become the Stars. LA moves from Eastern to Western Conference and Cleveland moves from West to East

1950: Brooklyn instead of Los Angeles becomes the third AAFC team to merge into the NFL along with Baltimore and San Francisco. Baltimore and Brooklyn go into the East, San Franciso into the West, and the other teams are not realigned.

1951: Baltimore folds

1952: Brooklyn moves to Dallas and becomes the Texans

1953: Dallas moves to Baltimore and becomes the Colts

1960: The Cardinals move to Dallas instead of Saint Louis, who gets the expansion team instead, named the Arches, and is placed in the West

1961: Minnesota gets an expansion team and is placed in the East

1966: Atlanta gets an expansion team and is placed in the West

1967: New Orleans gets an expansion team and the conferences are realigned into divisions.
Eastern Conference Capitol Division: New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh
Eastern Conference Century Division: Cleveland, Baltimore, Minnesota, Atlanta
Western Conference Central Division: Chicago, Green Bay, Detroit, Saint Louis
Western Conference Coastal Division: Los Angeles, Dallas, San Francisco, New Orleans

1970: The NFL and AFL merge
NFC East: New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh
NFC Central: Chicago, Cleveland, Green Bay, Detroit, St Louis
NFC West: Los Angeles, Dallas, San Francisco, New Orleans
AFC East: Buffalo, Miami, Boston, New York, Houston
AFC Central: Baltimore, Minnesota, Atlanta, Cincinnati
AFC West: Denver, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego

1976: Tampa Bay enters the league in the AFC Central and Seattle enters in the NFC West

1984: Baltimore moves to Indianapolis

1988: Saint Louis moves to Arizona, is renamed the Coyotes, and moves to the NFC West. New Orleans moves to the NFC Central

1995: Baltimore gets an expansion team, names the Ravens, instead of Jacksonville, and is placed in the AFC Central. Carolina gets the other expansion team and is placed in the NFC East, Minnesota moves to AFC West

1997: Houston moves to Tennessee

2002: Houston gets an AFC expansion team and Los Angeles gets an NFC expansion team. Divisions are realigned:

NFC East - New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh
NFC North - Chicago, Cleveland, Green Bay, Detroit
NFC South - Saint Louis, Dallas, New Orleans, Carolina
NFC West - San Francisco, Arizona, Seattle, Los Angeles

AFC East - Buffalo, Miami, Boston, New York
AFC North - Indianapolis, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Baltimore
AFC South - Atlanta, Tennessee, Tampa Bay, Houston
AFC West - Denver, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Henry

#3
Here's an alternate timeline for the NBA, with the Lakers staying put in Minneapolis instead of moving to Los Angeles in 1960:

1961: Los Angeles gets expansion team, called the Stars

1962: Philadelphia Warriors move to San Francisco

1963: Syracuse Nationals move to Philadelphia, and rename themselves the 76ers

1966: Chicago Bulls form as new expansion team

1967: Baltimore Bullets and Seattle SuperSonics form as new expansion teams

1968: Milwaukee Bucks and Phoenix Suns form as new expansion teams; St. Louis Hawks move to Atlanta. Final division setup is this...

EAST: Baltimore Bullets, Boston Celtics, Cincinnati Royals, Detroit Pistons, Milwaukee Bucks, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers
WEST: Atlanta Hawks, Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Stars, Minneapolis Lakers, Phoenix Suns, San Francisco Warriors, Seattle SuperSonics

1970: Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets and Portland Trail Blazers form as new expansion teams; San Francisco Warriors are renamed to Golden State Warriors. East and West Divisions are now known as Eastern and Western Conferences, with these new divisions...

ATLANTIC: Baltimore Bullets, Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers
CENTRAL: Atlanta Hawks, Cincinnati Royals, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons
MIDWEST: Chicago Bulls, Houston Rockets, Milwaukee Bucks, Minneapolis Lakers
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics

1973: Cincinnati Royals move to Kansas City, but rename themselves to Kings to avoid confusion with MLB team in KC. They switch conferences (and divisions) with Chicago.

1974: New Orleans Jazz forms as new expansion team, and is placed in Midwest Division; Milwaukee switches conferences; Baltimore Bullets move to Washington

1976: NBA and ABA merge, with same four teams being absorbed (Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, New York Nets, San Antonio Spurs). Divisions now look like this...

ATLANTIC: Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, New York Nets, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Bullets
CENTRAL: Atlanta Hawks, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks
MIDWEST: Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets, Kansas City Kings, Minneapolis Lakers, New Orleans Jazz, San Antonio Spurs
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics

1977: New York Nets move to New Jersey

1980: Dallas Mavericks form as new expansion team, and are placed in Midwest Division

1988: Charlotte Hornets and Miami Heat form as new expansion teams

1989: Orlando Magic and Utah Pioneers form as new expansion teams (because Minnesota still has a team, and Jazz are still in New Orleans)

1995: Toronto Raptors and Vancouver Grizzlies form as new expansion teams. Divisions are now set up as this...

ATLANTIC: Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, New Jersey Nets, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Bullets
CENTRAL: Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Toronto Raptors
MIDWEST: Dallas Mavericks, Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets, Kansas City Kings, Minneapolis Lakers, New Orleans Jazz, San Antonio Spurs
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics, Utah Pioneers, Vancouver Grizzlies

1997: Washington Bullets rename themselves to Wizards

2001: Vancouver Grizzlies move to Memphis, and switch divisions with Denver (as they'd be the closest Midwest Division team to the West Coast)

2004: Oklahoma City Thunder form as new expansion team; divisions realign to current setup.

With the Hornets, Kings, Nets and SuperSonics staying put, these are the divisions that you'd see today:

ALTERNATE REALITY NBA

ATLANTIC: Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors
CENTRAL: Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks
SOUTHEAST: Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Miami Heat, Orlando Magic, Washington Wizards

NORTHWEST: Denver Nuggets, Kansas City Kings, Minneapolis Lakers, Oklahoma City Thunder, Utah Pioneers
SOUTHWEST: Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Jazz, San Antonio Spurs
PACIFIC: Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Stars, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle SuperSonics
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

1995hoo

^^^^

Are you assuming Chicago never had the original Chicago Packers, who became the Zephyrs and subsequently moved to Baltimore and became the Bullets?
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

SEWIGuy

You could even suggest that the Hawks never leave Milwaukee.  (Where the Tri-City Blackhawks moved from - now the Quad Cities.)

Anyway the Hawks were terrible in Milwaukee.  Had Bob Pettit been around a little earlier, they may have drawn the crowds to stick around.

amroad17

So, in your alternate universe, the Buffalo Braves-San Diego Clippers-Los Angeles Clippers do not exist?  No Bob McAdoo?  No Randy Smith?  No Ernie DiGregorio?  Damn!
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Henry

#7
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 20, 2020, 11:36:59 AM
^^^^

Are you assuming Chicago never had the original Chicago Packers, who became the Zephyrs and subsequently moved to Baltimore and became the Bullets?
Quote from: amroad17 on May 21, 2020, 07:21:10 AM
So, in your alternate universe, the Buffalo Braves-San Diego Clippers-Los Angeles Clippers do not exist?  No Bob McAdoo?  No Randy Smith?  No Ernie DiGregorio?  Damn!
Unfortunately, the answer is yes to both answers. The first answer is because the Lakers never left in the first place, and Los Angeles was awarded the expansion team instead of Chicago. As for the second answer, it was mainly because I felt the need to give Houston a team, so the Rockets' years in San Diego never happened in this timeline either. I actually feel bad about giving the fine citizens of San Diego the shaft, but considering the bad luck they've had in keeping sports franchises (they lost the Rockets, Clippers and Chargers, and almost lost the Padres as well), I thought it would be best to spare them the heartache by not having a team there at all.

Now on to the NHL, with a more appropriate division setup for when the league expanded from six teams to twelve in 1967, and two of those new teams not merging...

1967: NHL adds six new teams to the Original Six. Instead of grouping the Original Six into one division and the six expansion teams into another, the six divisions would be mixed, resulting in this setup...

EAST: Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins
WEST: Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, California Golden Seals, Los Angeles Kings, Minnesota North Stars, St. Louis Blues

1971: Buffalo Sabres and Vancouver Canucks are founded as expansion teams

1972: Atlanta Flames and New York Islanders are founded as expansion teams

1974: Kansas City Scouts and Washington Capitals are founded as expansion teams

1976: Golden Seals remain in Oakland instead of moving to Cleveland (where they'd become the Barons in the real world)

1977: Scouts move to Denver, and rename themselves to Colorado Rockies

1978: A deal is made to save the Golden Seals

1979: Four teams (Edmonton Oilers, Hartford Whalers, Quebec Nordiques, Winnipeg Jets) from the WHA merge into the NHL

1980: Flames move to Calgary

1982: Rockies move to New Jersey, and rename themselves the Devils

1991: Phoenix Coyotes are founded as expansion team; Golden Seals move to San Jose, and rename themselves to Sharks

1992: Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning are founded as expansion teams

1993: Florida Panthers and the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim are founded as expansion teams; North Stars remain in Minnesota. Divisions are as follows...

ATLANTIC: Boston Bruins, Florida Panthers, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals
NORTHEAST: Buffalo Sabres, Hartford Whalers, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Senators, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins, Quebec Nordiques
CENTRAL: Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, Minnesota North Stars, Phoenix Coyotes, St. Louis Blues, Toronto Maple Leafs, Winnipeg Jets
PACIFIC: Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, San Jose Sharks, Vancouver Canucks

1995: Nordiques move to Denver, and rename themselves to Colorado Avalanche

1996: Jets remain in Winnipeg instead of moving to Phoenix

1997: Whalers move to Raleigh, NC, and rename themselves to Carolina Hurricanes

1999: Nashville Predators and Seattle Metropolitans are founded as expansion teams

2000: Columbus Blue Jackets and Dallas Mustangs are founded as expansion teams. Six-division setup is adopted, with the following teams...

ATLANTIC: Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers
NORTHEAST: Buffalo Sabres, Columbus Blue Jackets, Ottawa Senators, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins
SOUTHEAST: Carolina Hurricanes, Florida Panthers, Nashville Predators, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals
CENTRAL: Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, Minnesota North Stars, St. Louis Blues, Toronto Maple Leafs
MOUNTAIN: Calgary Flames, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Mustangs, Edmonton Oilers, Phoenix Coyotes, Winnipeg Jets
PACIFIC: Los Angeles Kings, Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, San Jose Sharks, Seattle Metropolitans, Vancouver Canucks

2006: Mighty Ducks are renamed to Anaheim Ducks

2013: Phoenix Coyotes are renamed to Arizona Coyotes

2017: Vegas Golden Knights are founded as expansion team, with final division setup as follows...

ATLANTIC: Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Montreal Canadiens, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Ottawa Senators, Toronto Maple Leafs
METROPOLITAN: Carolina Hurricanes, Columbus Blue Jackets, Detroit Red Wings, Florida Panthers, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals
CENTRAL: Arizona Coyotes, Chicago Blackhawks, Colorado Avalanche, Dallas Mustangs, Minnesota North Stars, Nashville Predators, St. Louis Blues, Winnipeg Jets
PACIFIC: Anaheim Ducks, Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, San Jose Sharks, Seattle Metropolitans, Vancouver Canucks, Vegas Golden Knights
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: Henry on May 21, 2020, 11:47:52 AM

Now on to the NHL, with a more appropriate division setup for when the league expanded from six teams to twelve in 1967, and two of those new teams not merging...

1967: NHL adds six new teams to the Original Six. Instead of grouping the Original Six into one division and the six expansion teams into another, the six divisions would be mixed, resulting in this setup...

EAST: Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens, New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins
WEST: Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, California Golden Seals, Los Angeles Kings, Minnesota North Stars, St. Louis Blues

Had the NHL used that setup instead of the one we knew,  chances then the Blues wouldn't made the finals 3 times in their beginning and maybe, just maybe the Red Wings wouldn't be known as the "Dead Wings" in the 1970s had the moved to the west division which what they did with Chicago for the 1970-71 season.

Roadgeekteen

What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

nexus73

A seminal move was Lamar Hunt creating the AFL.  Had the NFL let him have a franchise, there would be no AFL.  That would have changed a lot of things in such a timeline.

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?


If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team.  The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium.  And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one.  Would the NFL ever gone back?

Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good. 

Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA.  Maybe the Bills relocate.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?


If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team.  The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium.  And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one.  Would the NFL ever gone back?

Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good. 

Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA.  Maybe the Bills relocate.
That's a huge market. Someone eventually relocates there by the 2010s I think.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?


If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team.  The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium.  And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one.  Would the NFL ever gone back?

Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good. 

Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA.  Maybe the Bills relocate.
That's a huge market. Someone eventually relocates there by the 2010s I think.

LA went a long time. Only thing that made it official was a new stadium.

No team would have moved to Foxboro without another stadium on the horizon.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
What if the Patriots moved to St. Louis in 1994 and became the Stallions? How would that affect the league today?


If that happend, I wonder if Boston / New England would have ever received an expansion team.  The Patriots weren't that well supported and had a terrible stadium.  And I'm not sure the various local and state governments would have been motivated enough to build one.  Would the NFL ever gone back?

Unlike Cleveland, which always had the rapid fanbase, and Houston, which is a football hotbed, once they figured out their stadium issues everything was good. 

Maybe the market is just too big and eventually someone steps forward like LA.  Maybe the Bills relocate.
That's a huge market. Someone eventually relocates there by the 2010s I think.

LA went a long time. Only thing that made it official was a new stadium.

No team would have moved to Foxboro without another stadium on the horizon.
Maybe the Chargers move to Boston instead of LA if they can get a stadium.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

webny99

I don't think Western NY could handle the Bills leaving town.

CoreySamson

What if the Oilers had never left Houston? Would Tennessee get an expansion team, or would somewhere like San Antonio or Birmingham get it?
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

1995hoo

Quote from: CoreySamson on May 24, 2020, 11:48:51 AM
What if the Oilers had never left Houston? Would Tennessee get an expansion team, or would somewhere like San Antonio or Birmingham get it?

Hard to picture San Antonio getting a team because the other two Texas teams don't want to share the market–Jerry Jones, in particular, is known to be fairly hostile to the idea of a permanent team in San Antonio ("permanent" as opposed to the Saints' temporary residency there after Hurricane Katrina). That's one reason why the talk a few years ago of the Raiders moving there was always seen as such a long shot.

Had the Oilers not moved to Nashville, I've always wondered which city would have stood a better chance of landing a team–Nashville or Memphis.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cwf1701

What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?
The NFL is not going to take teams in NFL cities. Or if they do, they will have to relocate.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

nexus73

Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?

Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities.  The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league. 

After that would have come a shakeout.  It would have been interesting to see which cities were able to keep their franchise, including the ones from the NFL.

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?

Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities.  The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.


I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there.  That way they get to choose the owner.


nexus73

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?

Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities.  The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.


I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there.  That way they get to choose the owner.



The NFL also likes to choose and chase the money.  New owners have to give up some of the moolah which comes to those already in the club from TV revenue.  "Admission fees" so to speak. 

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

1995hoo

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?

Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities.  The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.


I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there.  That way they get to choose the owner.



The USFL had one particular owner Pete Rozelle had told, in no uncertain terms, "you will never, under any circumstances, own an NFL team."

I wonder whatever happened to that guy.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 25, 2020, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2020, 08:59:53 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on May 24, 2020, 05:49:56 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 24, 2020, 04:48:11 PM
What if the USFL merged with the NFL after its first season in 1983? i can see the NFL as part of the merger taking the 4 playoff teams that year (Philadelphia Stars, Michigan Panthers, Chicago Blitz, and Oakland Invaders) as well as the 4 top teams in attendance of non playoff teams (Tampa Bay Bandits, New Jersey Generals, Denver Gold, and Boston Breakers). what happens to the NFL as we know it after that?

Since the NFL had the upper hand, they could have moved all USFL franchises located in NFL markets into new cities.  The owners of the USFL teams would have been grateful just to have a place in the league.


I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but if the NFL wanted to place teams into markets where a USFL team would be relocated, it would have been easier simply to put an expansion franchise there.  That way they get to choose the owner.



The USFL had one particular owner Pete Rozelle had told, in no uncertain terms, "you will never, under any circumstances, own an NFL team."

I wonder whatever happened to that guy.

So maybe the alternate universe is Trump gets an NFL team, never goes into politics, and John Kasich is President right now.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%



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