Need help with the FL highway system

[Scott5114]

The Florida highway articles on Wikipedia are completely trashed out. Could someone give me a link (or post a brief essay) on how the FL highway system works? Specifically how the S- and C- thing worked and how today's county routes play into the system. There's tons of articles on county roads, but I can't tell which ones are just bog-standard county routes (usually out of our scope) and which are former state highways...

[Alex]

How about we just create a new log on AARoads instead? Brent and I have driven so many of them...

[florida]

Isn't SPUI supposed to be in charge/the creator of those pages?


As far as the county-routes-being-former-state-routes, many have been renumbered, and some don't appear on the system anymore.

[Alps]

It's pretty simple.  Major east-west roads divide the state into ten divisions - 10, 20, 30, 40, etc.  All of the three-digit routes between 10 and 20 (or north of 10) start with 1xx, then you have 2xx 3xx etc.  I'm not sure to what degree all nine original state highways are still there, but most of the highways are numbered in this system.  Now, of course you have the north-south routes, and all I know is that those progress from east to west but I couldn't tell you more than that.

S- had to do with maintenance priority.  S- roads just had a lower degree of maintenance and many/most had weight limits as a result.  They were perceived as the less critical links in the system.  When the S- system was abandoned (likely to drop state mileage), most of the S- roads were downloaded onto the counties.  Those that weren't lost the S- designation, those that were just became county routes but generally kept the same number.  The C- (and a COUNTY below the number) was just used to patch the old shields so that the state could download the road without ordering up all new shields for thousands of highway miles.  Some counties have just never gotten around to replacing the old signs, or have replaced them with new "C-" signs (whether pentagons or state shield replicas) because they're stupid.  Most of the old numbers do appear to remain intact.  The way to tell is that if you find a reasonably through-type road and its number fits the #xx system, it's a former S- route.  You'll almost never be wrong.

[TheStranger]

The burning question I have: how did Florida State Road 112 fit in the old system?

[agentsteel53]

The burning question I have: how did Florida State Road 112 fit in the old system?

or that 7xx road leading out of Live Oak, and then another 7xx in the Pensacola area!

[FLRoads]

I'm not sure to what degree all nine original state highways are still there, but most of the highways are numbered in this system.

Actually all nine double-digit even-numbered state highways (FL 10,20,30,...90) are still active, with some being a hidden route crossing the state with its counterpart(s). FL 10 is the hidden designation for U.S. 90 from the Alabama state line to Jacksonville, where the two split and FL 10 becomes exposed for its last leg to Atlantic Beach. FL 20 runs from Niceville in the Panhandle all the way to Bunnell. This route is hidden for some of its trek across the state, namely between Tallahassee where it becomes the hidden route for U.S. 27 to Gainesville, where it branches off from U.S. 441 to head east and southeast toward Palatka, where it becomes hidden again upon its intersection with U.S. 17 and FL 100. FL 20 stays hidden along FL 100 to U.S. 1 in Bunnell. FL 30 is the hidden counterpart to U.S. 98 throughout the entire Panhandle region (from the AL state line to Perry). FL 40 runs east-west from U.S. 41 near Dunnellon in north central Florida to Ormond Beach and is never hidden. A county maintained portion of 40 does run from Dunnellon west to Inglis and U.S. 19/U.S. 98. FL 50, 60, 70 and 80 are also routes that are not hidden in their west to east march across the peninsula. And FL 90 is the hidden designation of U.S. 41 from downtown Naples to Miami.

Now, of course you have the north-south routes, and all I know is that those progress from east to west but I couldn't tell you more than that.

The north-south odd-numbered routes do indeed progress from east to west, starting with FL 3 along Merritt Island to FL 97 north and northwest of Pensacola. I guess you could include FL A1A as being the furthest east north-south route, but I have always considered A1A to be one of those special Florida routes. A good number of the main north-south odd-numbered routes end in 5 and usually are hidden along U.S. Highways running through the state, such as FL 5 (which follows U.S. 1), FL 15 (northern portion of U.S. 17), FL 25 (U.S. 27), FL 35 (southern portion of U.S. 17), FL 45 (U.S. 41), FL 55 (U.S. 19), FL 75 (U.S. 231), and FL 95 (U.S. 29), while FL 65 and FL 85 have no hidden counterparts.

Hopefully this information gives those some further insight into the Florida highway system.

[florida]

The burning question I have: how did Florida State Road 112 fit in the old system?

or that 7xx road leading out of Live Oak, and then another 7xx in the Pensacola area!

This is just theory (ok, my theory), but SR 112 serves the Miami International Airport, therefore, it is a road you will remember in the gaggle of 9xx routes down there. Same applies to SR 404 serving Patrick AFB in the middle of a 5xx band. FDOT could use certain route numbers to show prominence in the routes. Another example is all the other expressways in Miami are of the 8xx band except for the extremely short SR 970. And, SR 886 serves the Port of Miami....I could go on and on.

The 7xx routes in North Florida and the Panhandle are because of limited numbers in the 1xx, 2xx and 3xx bands. Panama City historically had many 7xx routes (in the 60s and 70s), but those were changed over to the 4-digit CRs. In Pensacola, you have SRs 289, 290, 291, 292, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298, and CR 293. The 4xx and 7xx routes are relief numbers for the overused 2xx band. There's other out-of-place routes scattered too like Walton CR 457, Suwannee CR 417, Madison CR 591, Calhoun CR 549; those have survived, but the others have been renumbered.

[agentsteel53]

Same applies to SR 404 serving Patrick AFB in the middle of a 5xx band.

how many people need to go to an air force base?  I'd figure everyone that did would know exactly where it is.

[florida]

Same applies to SR 404 serving Patrick AFB in the middle of a 5xx band.

how many people need to go to an air force base?  I'd figure everyone that did would know exactly where it is.

Ask Froggie.

For those who don't, they could get confused with the other numbered routes (509 and 518) if it was numbered as a 5xx. Non-roadgeeks would tell other non-roadgeeks to "look out for highway [insert number]", and we know non-roadgeeks are not good with directions, so they would end up confused.

[agentsteel53]

"look out for the big signs that say 'Welcome to Patrick Air Force Base, please have your ID ready for the gatekeeper'!"

[realjd]

Same applies to SR 404 serving Patrick AFB in the middle of a 5xx band.

how many people need to go to an air force base?  I'd figure everyone that did would know exactly where it is.

While I don't know anything about FDOT's reason for numbering it all funny, us locals don't typically call it by it's number. We all just call it the Pineda Causeway. It was a toll road until the early 1990, so maybe they numbered it in the 400's because of that. It's also a limited-access freeway, so that may have something to do with it also. Or maybe we're just reading too much into it!

And yes, because it's SR-404, we do make "highway not found" jokes!

[rickmastfan67]

FL 30 is the hidden counterpart to U.S. 98 throughout the entire Panhandle region (from the AL state line to Perry).

Not entirely.  FL-30 is now posted after the decommisioning of the US-98 Alt in Panama City Beach.

I've also wondered why there is a completely seperate FL-145 in Fort Walton Beach that is over 190 miles away from the other segment in Madison.

[florida]

I've also wondered why there is a completely seperate FL-145 in Fort Walton Beach that is over 190 miles away from the other segment in Madison.

And even then, it's only signed with reassurance shields with no trailblazers at either end. But, it does give us a popcorn sign for that number.

[leifvanderwall]

I think Florida has screwed up its own road system. There has been mentioning of a 7xx  route in Pensacola, there are actually 3 of them, because of the overusage of the 2XX routes, but there are 2xx routes that are only 2 or 3 miles long. What Florida used to do is use a branch system such as SR 528A and SR 5A or maybe some counties apply it and some don't.

Most counties try to use the same system, but some completely ignore it such as Lafayette County. There is actually a CR 400 in Lafayette County that intersects US 27. Lake and Seminole Counties do an excellent job  in signing their county routes-CR 561 is cosigned with US 27 in Lake County. However Orange County does a godawful job. For example, do not try to follow SR/CR 535 north past Lake Buena Vista & don't follow SR 527 into Downtown Orlando or you will get lost.

Leon County has too many 4 digit county routes when its not necessary.
Florida has a good road system - IF EVERY COUNTY FOLLOWS IT CONSISTENTLY.

[FLRoads]

I've also wondered why there is a completely seperate FL-145 in Fort Walton Beach that is over 190 miles away from the other segment in Madison.

And even then, it's only signed with reassurance shields with no trailblazers at either end. But, it does give us a popcorn sign for that number.

And the only two signs are found going southbound! There are no reassurance markers northbound at all...

And yes, I did forget about FL 30 being exposed now along the Panama City Beach area.

[rickmastfan67]

I've also wondered why there is a completely seperate FL-145 in Fort Walton Beach that is over 190 miles away from the other segment in Madison.

And even then, it's only signed with reassurance shields with no trailblazers at either end. But, it does give us a popcorn sign for that number.

And the only two signs are found going southbound! There are no reassurance markers northbound at all...

You might want to go back to that area.  StreetView shows a NB FL-145 shield.
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=30.403828,-86.603959&spn=0,359.993032&z=18&layer=c&cbll=30.40391,-86.603954&panoid=-QAwxNpcM1dBYG2cvEKTYA&cbp=12,18.31,,0,4.58

[florida]

I think Florida has screwed up its own road system. There has been mentioning of a 7xx  route in Pensacola, there are actually 3 of them, because of the overusage of the 2XX routes, but there are 2xx routes that are only 2 or 3 miles long. What Florida used to do is use a branch system such as SR 528A and SR 5A or maybe some counties apply it and some don't.

Most counties try to use the same system, but some completely ignore it such as Lafayette County. There is actually a CR 400 in Lafayette County that intersects US 27. Lake and Seminole Counties do an excellent job  in signing their county routes-CR 561 is cosigned with US 27 in Lake County. However Orange County does a godawful job. For example, do not try to follow SR/CR 535 north past Lake Buena Vista & don't follow SR 527 into Downtown Orlando or you will get lost.

Leon County has too many 4 digit county routes when its not necessary.
Florida has a good road system - IF EVERY COUNTY FOLLOWS IT CONSISTENTLY.

A few "mis-numbered" routes adds flair; SR 742 used to be SR 176 and CR 749 is Old SRs 297 and 292, for what it's worth.

I asked at the Chamber of Commerce, or somewhere, in Mayo about why Lafayette County renumbered all their county routes and they said it was for 911/Emergency purposes. For example, before the renumbering there were four different sections of CR 251, now there's only one.

The 4-digit routes were brought up in the 1976 Legislature to ease the over-numbering of other routes (a great example is CR 225, just count how many sections there are), and I've said before that there are maps in Tallahassee's FDOT headquarters showing all the planned and proposed routings of these. A very nice woman, who retired in 2005, told me that it was one guy's job to come up with the scheme for the 4-digit routes. [I was stupid enough to not get copies of them, but they were nice to give copies of the 3-digit plans, and those are still as interesting.]

[leifvanderwall]

Thanks. I found those tidbits very interesting.

[florida]

Thanks. I found those tidbits very interesting.

No problem, there are plenty more tidbits which need answers.

[leifvanderwall]

Perhaps someone should call Orange County about the signing of their county and state roads.

[FLRoads]

I've also wondered why there is a completely seperate FL-145 in Fort Walton Beach that is over 190 miles away from the other segment in Madison.

And even then, it's only signed with reassurance shields with no trailblazers at either end. But, it does give us a popcorn sign for that number.

And the only two signs are found going southbound! There are no reassurance markers northbound at all...

You might want to go back to that area.  StreetView shows a NB FL-145 shield.
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=30.403828,-86.603959&spn=0,359.993032&z=18&layer=c&cbll=30.40391,-86.603954&panoid=-QAwxNpcM1dBYG2cvEKTYA&cbp=12,18.31,,0,4.58

Well, that sign might have been there when Google rode through for StreetView, but it is definitely not there now, and I have lived here since November 2008. And since I work in Fort Walton Beach, I go by there on a regular basis

[Traffic]

The north-south odd-numbered routes do indeed progress from east to west, starting with FL 3 along Merritt Island to FL 97 north and northwest of Pensacola. I guess you could include FL A1A as being the furthest east north-south route, but I have always considered A1A to be one of those special Florida routes. A good number of the main north-south odd-numbered routes end in 5 and usually are hidden along U.S. Highways running through the state, such as FL 5 (which follows U.S. 1), FL 15 (northern portion of U.S. 17), FL 25 (U.S. 27), FL 35 (southern portion of U.S. 17), FL 45 (U.S. 41), FL 55 (U.S. 19), FL 75 (U.S. 231), and FL 95 (U.S. 29), while FL 65 and FL 85 have no hidden counterparts.

Hopefully this information gives those some further insight into the Florida highway system.

A1A was originaily Florida (state) Hwy 1 (FL 1).  When the US highway system came along and proposed to run US 1 down the East Coast of Florida, the state knew that there might be confusion between two hwy 1s (US 1 and FL 1) being so close together, so they renamed Fl 1 as FL A1A, to avoid confusion but still keep the number within the grid.  It was not created as an "altenate" to US 1, as some have thought.


Fixed quote - rmf67

[leifvanderwall]

I really think A1A should be changed to SR 3 because the CR 3 in Merritt Island is not even signed. My problem with A1A is there are too many broken segments of the road especially at the New Smyrna Beach-Cape Canaveral area.

[florida]

I really think A1A should be changed to SR 3 because the CR 3 in Merritt Island is not even signed. My problem with A1A is there are too many broken segments of the road especially at the New Smyrna Beach-Cape Canaveral area.

But it's the de facto coastal route along the straighter barrier islands on the east coast....at least 90% of the time (Key West, New Smyrna, and Inland Nassau County are exceptions). A1A is legendary like US 101.