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Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

Started by swbrotha100, October 16, 2012, 09:51:18 PM

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JayhawkCO

#1200
Quote from: cl94 on June 17, 2024, 02:37:37 PMMore than you think. Busiest route out of Reno by far. There is a LOT of air traffic between the two, whether it be business or Tahoe tourism.

Busiest route out of Reno, sure. Just like Denver is the busiest route out of Liberal, KS.

I'm being hyperbolic, obviously.

Total RNO-LAS traffic from 4/23-4/24 is 487,000 passengers, with some of that obviously connecting traffic as Southwest has 50% market share and has lots of destinations from LAS.

If I were a betting man, and I am, I'd bet that about 20% is actually O/D traffic, so I'll round up and say 100,000 passengers, so less than 300 per day. This is probably the equivalent of an AADT of 200, and it looks like the AADT on US95 by Goldfield is 2,400.

So tl;dr, I don't think flying puts a statistically significant dent in the traffic on this route. Not many people travel between the two cities whether by land or air.


Scott5114

Maybe I-11 to Reno is borne of an interoffice dispute at NDOT.

"God damn it, if you're going to make people from the Las Vegas office come up to Carson for these stupid meetings you should at least let us expense the air travel."
"If you didn't want to drive, George, maybe you shouldn't have gotten a job with NDOT."
"Well maybe if there was an INTERSTATE I wouldn't have PROBLEM with it JEFF"
"WELL MAYBE WE'LL MAKE THERE BE A WHOLE ASS INTERSTATE JUST FOR WHINY BABY GEORGE"
"WELL MAYBE YOU'D BETTER"
"WELL MAYBE I WILL"
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kkt

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2024, 03:01:27 PMMaybe I-11 to Reno is borne of an interoffice dispute at NDOT.

"God damn it, if you're going to make people from the Las Vegas office come up to Carson for these stupid meetings you should at least let us expense the air travel."
"If you didn't want to drive, George, maybe you shouldn't have gotten a job with NDOT."
"Well maybe if there was an INTERSTATE I wouldn't have PROBLEM with it JEFF"
"WELL MAYBE WE'LL MAKE THERE BE A WHOLE ASS INTERSTATE JUST FOR WHINY BABY GEORGE"
"WELL MAYBE YOU'D BETTER"
"WELL MAYBE I WILL"

 :clap:

Really, the travel expense for mandatory meetings should be expensed either way, but...

wanderer2575

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 17, 2024, 03:01:27 PMMaybe I-11 to Reno is borne of an interoffice dispute at NDOT.

"God damn it, if you're going to make people from the Las Vegas office come up to Carson for these stupid meetings you should at least let us expense the air travel."
"If you didn't want to drive, George, maybe you shouldn't have gotten a job with NDOT."
"Well maybe if there was an INTERSTATE I wouldn't have PROBLEM with it JEFF"
"WELL MAYBE WE'LL MAKE THERE BE A WHOLE ASS INTERSTATE JUST FOR WHINY BABY GEORGE"
"WELL MAYBE YOU'D BETTER"
"WELL MAYBE I WILL"

That's the first funny thing I've seen all day.  I needed that.

Scott5114

Quote from: kkt on June 17, 2024, 03:07:10 PMReally, the travel expense for mandatory meetings should be expensed either way, but...

George, Jeff said he wants you to get off the Internet during work hours.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

FredAkbar

Quote from: cl94 on June 17, 2024, 02:37:37 PMIt takes 16 hours to drive from Portland to Vegas. A freeway won't make that less than 14-15. Flight is 2-3 hours. Most people would take the flight. Unless you're going with a group of people or need a ton of equipment, the flight will be cheaper, especially given that a drive that long involves an overnight somewhere for most people.

People in our hobby are unusually averse to flying compared to the general population. Most people will take whatever is cheapest or fastest. With how cheap flights to Vegas are, most people are going to fly, especially if they don't need a car in Vegas and hotels are going to charge obscene amounts for parking.

Definitely this. No one outside of hardcore roadgeeks and driving enthusiasts is driving more than 3-4 hours to Vegas. People who are used to driving long distances vastly underrate the aversion that most people have to driving more than an hour. When I tell people I drive from the Bay Area to Vegas (7-8 hours) I get shocked looks. (I hate flying and enjoy driving.)

SoCal, Phoenix, and maybe SLC are surely the only metros that would drive to Vegas and that wouldn't change even if there were an interstate going northwest from Vegas.

You could probably get more people to drive from Phoenix if there were an interstate, unless the existing US-93 between the two cities is sufficiently interstate-like (I haven't driven it). Remember, this is for normies, not anyone who reads or posts on this forum.

DenverBrian

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 17, 2024, 12:42:58 PM
Quote from: kktAre you talking about people in Seattle or Vancouver who want to go to Las Vegas for a few days?

No, this has more to do about aiding commercial traffic. I think a NAFTA style corridor that bypasses much of California would be pretty attractive to long haul truckers.
This. New interstates are being built for truck traffic. Auto traffic is pretty much incidental.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 01:07:12 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 17, 2024, 03:34:18 AM
Quote from: pderocco on June 17, 2024, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 16, 2024, 01:22:15 AMI will say one thing, This is also responding directly to a couple posters that I respect greatly, I am very happy they are not in charge. Because I think there are several highways out on the west that you could say don't deserve to be full interstate quality and that a four-lane at grade Road would suffice. One such obvious road is I-70 in Utah. I am very happy I can travel that road at 80 miles an hour and not have to go through at grade intersections. I think you could say the same thing about some segments of I-10 in western Texas.
That's something we haven't considered. Maybe the reason people want a high speed Interstate highway through hundreds of miles of nothing is that they just want to get the damn ride over with, it's so boring. That's certainly why I rarely get off the Interstate when I'm driving through the middle of the country.
I can tell you given Utah's practices of signing its two-lane roads at 65 mph, The fact that I drive to Moab once or twice a month, That ride would be absolute hell. I'm so happy that I 70 is an interstate through eastern Utah.

Wait, you drive to Moab twice a month but stick only to I-15 and I-70?  I'll give you that both have some really top-notch Interstate segments but that's a lot of really top shelf state highway and US Route stuff you're skipping. UT 12 is on a lot of top ten general scenic highway lists.
I drive there at least once a month. I take different routes sometimes depending on the time of day. I haven't been on UT-12 yet I need to check it out. Obviously I have taken the 191. Sometimes I go through Zion. I've taken 89 from Kanab to Page and then 98 to US-160 which depending on where I want to go I will either go through Monument Valley or continue to US-191.

Taking US-89 north from Kanab is on my to do list and it looks like I will be adding UT-12 as well.

I will take the 15 to I-70 depending on if I am in a hurry or if it's nighttime.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 17, 2024, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 01:07:12 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 17, 2024, 03:34:18 AM
Quote from: pderocco on June 17, 2024, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 16, 2024, 01:22:15 AMI will say one thing, This is also responding directly to a couple posters that I respect greatly, I am very happy they are not in charge. Because I think there are several highways out on the west that you could say don't deserve to be full interstate quality and that a four-lane at grade Road would suffice. One such obvious road is I-70 in Utah. I am very happy I can travel that road at 80 miles an hour and not have to go through at grade intersections. I think you could say the same thing about some segments of I-10 in western Texas.
That's something we haven't considered. Maybe the reason people want a high speed Interstate highway through hundreds of miles of nothing is that they just want to get the damn ride over with, it's so boring. That's certainly why I rarely get off the Interstate when I'm driving through the middle of the country.
I can tell you given Utah's practices of signing its two-lane roads at 65 mph, The fact that I drive to Moab once or twice a month, That ride would be absolute hell. I'm so happy that I 70 is an interstate through eastern Utah.

Wait, you drive to Moab twice a month but stick only to I-15 and I-70?  I'll give you that both have some really top-notch Interstate segments but that's a lot of really top shelf state highway and US Route stuff you're skipping. UT 12 is on a lot of top ten general scenic highway lists.
I drive there at least once a month. I take different routes sometimes depending on the time of day. I haven't been on UT-12 yet I need to check it out. Obviously I have taken the 191. Sometimes I go through Zion. I've taken 89 from Kanab to Page and then 98 to US-160 which depending on where I want to go I will either go through Monument Valley or continue to US-191.

Taking US-89 north from Kanab is on my to do list and it looks like I will be adding UT-12 as well.

I will take the 15 to I-70 depending on if I am in a hurry or if it's nighttime.

The nice thing about UT 12 is the eastern terminus drops you off at UT 24 approaching Capitol Reef.  I'm a fan of UT 95 which isn't too far from Moab either.

Rothman

This thread's a train wreck.

*tunes in to read about I-11*

Um...Utah?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Max Rockatansky

Southern Utah highway talk would be my preferred alternative to I-11 conjecture north of Las Vegas.

kkt

There's already an interstate from Las Vegas to southern Utah.

Nothing wrong with having I-11 end in or near Las Vegas.

Plutonic Panda

Well, according To the Las Vegas review journal, The Nevada Department of transportation sure seems to imply it will run all the way from Canada to Mexico.

QuoteNevada transportation officials have identified options for the next step to extend Interstate 11 farther north beyond the Las Vegas Valley.

The Nevada Department of Transportation is conducting a virtual public meeting to gather feedback from residents on three identified options to bring U.S. Highway 95 to interstate code from the northwest valley through Indian Springs.

The virtual public meeting runs through July 12 online, with an in-person meeting scheduled for 4-7 p.m. June 25 at the Indian Springs Park Community Center.


Interstate 11 currently runs from the Arizona-Nevada border to the Henderson Interchange on U.S. 95. Long-term plans call for the interstate to run from Canada all the way to Mexico.

This year new I-11 signage will be added along U.S. 95 from the Henderson Interchange to Kyle Canyon Road.

The three new options being considered would travel through Indian Springs, where a mix of commercial and residential property and Creech Air Force Base are located. That mix leaves little room to increase the highway's footprint to allow both local and interstate access.

Design alternatives

Alternative 1 includes a new route that would loop south of Indian Springs, with two interchanges constructed on both sides of the community.

Alternative 2 would maintain northbound interstate travel on U.S. 95 through town, with southbound travel moved to a new corridor south of the community, using the same alignment as Alternative 1. Both directions would converge at interchanges on each end of Indian Springs. Frontage roads would be added to allow local access through town.

Alternative 3 would maintain both directions of travel on U.S. 95 through the community, with two options: 3a) a raised road or 3b) a depressed road option. Local travel would take place on the current U.S. 95 corridor, and the interstate route would be constructed either below or above U.S. 95, with interchanges built on both sides of Indian Springs.

New interchanges

No matter which alternative is chosen, bringing the stretch of U.S. 95 to interstate code for I-11 will mean roadway features will need to be updated and all at-grade intersections would need to be replaced by interchanges.

To bring the highway to interstate code, NDOT would look to widen the inside and outside shoulders, feature a wider median and/or include safety barriers, add improved signage and striping, and create higher bridge clearances and shallower grades.

A total of 10 interchanges also would be included in the plan at various points on the highway. They would consist of traditional diamond layouts that would provide access to both areas on both sides of I-11.

Three of the 10 already exist, at Snow Mountain and Lee Canyon in Clark County and in Mercury in Nye County, but those will need to be updated as part of the I-11 project. Seven new interchanges would be built along the nearly 50-mile stretch of highway.

The new interchanges would be built at:

Sheep Mountain Road: This interchange is proposed to connect to a planned Sheep Mountain Parkway corridor, which will provide north-south access west of the 215 Beltway.

Corn Creek Road: This interchange would provide access to the community of Corn Creek and the Corn Creek Visitor Center and Desert National Wildlife Refuge.

Cold Creek Road: An interchange would replace the existing at-grade intersection that provides access to the Southern Desert Correctional Center and the community of Cold Creek.

Indian Springs: Interchanges will be built on the northern and southern ends of the community.

Big Timber Spring: An interchange would be constructed to provide access to public lands located south of U.S. 95.

Rock Spring: An interchange would be constructed to give access to public lands located south of U.S. 95.

A truck parking facility also would be constructed between Lee Canyon and Cold Creek interchanges to provide drivers of long-haul trucks a place to rest.

Ultimate goal

Linking Las Vegas to Phoenix and then eventually to Mexico and Canada via I-11 are the goals of the long-term project.

The I-11 Tier 1 Environmental Impact Statement from Nogales to Wickenburg in Arizona was completed in 2021, with the record of decision from that establishing the selected corridor, which is 2,000 feet wide, according to the Arizona Department of Transportation.

A Tier 2 environmental study must still be completed to narrow the corridor to 400-foot-wide alignments, or routes. A Tier 2 EIS has been programmed for study from Buckeye to Wickenburg.

No time frame is set as to when work on new portions of I-11 in both Nevada and Arizona might begin, and funding has yet to be identified.

- https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior/ndot-seeking-public-opinion-on-planned-i-11-extension-3070028/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3gvu3KMlX_xXVgzzr_a_FKA9t_yFqFPzOZkcB5lQFD-4HPcimrrnLkWBM_aem_0PLa6pL8TZKvkdRQE6D4Xw

Max Rockatansky

Ah, I see NDOT was taken over by FritzOwl.  The Interstate Empire is about to emerge onto the unsuspecting populace. 

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 18, 2024, 12:46:43 AMAh, I see NDOT was taken over by FritzOwl.  The Interstate Empire is about to emerge onto the unsuspecting populace. 
I thought you might like that article. FritzOwl is moving onto bigger and better things here. Fritz, care to chime in? Or does he only stay in his own thread?

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 18, 2024, 12:53:52 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 18, 2024, 12:46:43 AMAh, I see NDOT was taken over by FritzOwl.  The Interstate Empire is about to emerge onto the unsuspecting populace. 
I thought you might like that article. FritzOwl is moving onto bigger and better things here. Fritz, care to chime in? Or does he only stay in his own thread?

The dark lord of the Interstate never tells his secrets off the Fictional board. 

cl94

Sigh... again, NDOT is doing just enough to placate the politicians and no further. Congress and Nevada's congresscritters degreed that it's going border to border, so NDOT needs to give it lip service.

NDOT's real intentions and expectations are in their long-range planning documents. None of which include I-11 north of Vegas, nor does their model. Heck, NDOT doesn't even identify US 95 as a priority corridor (a designation given to 93 and 395).

(personal opinion emphasized)
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Scott5114

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 18, 2024, 12:46:43 AMAh, I see NDOT was taken over by FritzOwl.  The Interstate Empire is about to emerge onto the unsuspecting populace. 

NDOT presents: Interstate System 2, this time with blackjack and hookers.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

Quote from: cl94 on June 18, 2024, 01:09:18 AMSigh... again, NDOT is doing just enough to placate the politicians and no further. Congress and Nevada's congresscritters degreed that it's going border to border, so NDOT needs to give it lip service.

NDOT's real intentions and expectations are in their long-range planning documents. None of which include I-11 north of Vegas, nor does their model. Heck, NDOT doesn't even identify US 95 as a priority corridor (a designation given to 93 and 395).

(personal opinion emphasized)
Doesn't the Canamax corridor follow I-15 north of Las Vegas instead?  Or has there been a change?  Because if not, it seems like a case of the media being dumb.  Although Arizona seems to have fully bought into that logic with their plans to send I-11 down I-19.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

US 395

Quote from: cl94 on June 18, 2024, 01:09:18 AMSigh... again, NDOT is doing just enough to placate the politicians and no further. Congress and Nevada's congresscritters degreed that it's going border to border, so NDOT needs to give it lip service.

NDOT's real intentions and expectations are in their long-range planning documents. None of which include I-11 north of Vegas, nor does their model. Heck, NDOT doesn't even identify US 95 as a priority corridor (a designation given to 93 and 395).

(personal opinion emphasized)

I think there's a better chance of 395 being four-laned by NDOT and Caltrans from Gardnerville to Bridgeport than I-11 making it to 80.

US 395

Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 17, 2024, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: cl94 on June 17, 2024, 02:37:37 PMMore than you think. Busiest route out of Reno by far. There is a LOT of air traffic between the two, whether it be business or Tahoe tourism.

Busiest route out of Reno, sure. Just like Denver is the busiest route out of Liberal, KS.

I'm being hyperbolic, obviously.

Total RNO-LAS traffic from 4/23-4/24 is 487,000 passengers, with some of that obviously connecting traffic as Southwest has 50% market share and has lots of destinations from LAS.

If I were a betting man, and I am, I'd bet that about 20% is actually O/D traffic, so I'll round up and say 100,000 passengers, so less than 300 per day. This is probably the equivalent of an AADT of 200, and it looks like the AADT on US95 by Goldfield is 2,400.

So tl;dr, I don't think flying puts a statistically significant dent in the traffic on this route. Not many people travel between the two cities whether by land or air.

There are around 10-12 flights a day via Southwest (Spirit flies the route too but not sure on their frequency) between Reno and Vegas. Yes, even the Reno-bound flights are usually pretty packed.

US 395

Quote from: kkt on June 17, 2024, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 17, 2024, 12:42:58 PM
Quote from: kktAre you talking about people in Seattle or Vancouver who want to go to Las Vegas for a few days?

No, this has more to do about aiding commercial traffic. I think a NAFTA style corridor that bypasses much of California would be pretty attractive to long haul truckers.

Also, some people are going to prefer driving to flying depending on the leg of I-11 they're using. I think air travel sucks ass these days. And they nickel and dime you to death with all the damned added fees. A completed I-11 between Phoenix and Las Vegas would likely attract more personal vehicle traffic.

I think driving on US 93 would be completely acceptable to long-haul truckers.  It's two lanes, but not crowded at all.  There's no trouble finding a place to pass.

Yes, the added fees on air travel are annoying, but even with them it's still cheaper than a couple of nights in hotels and meals on the road.  Some people love long distance drives, but most don't.


I love driving long distance. But I also don't do more than a 10-12 hour drive time from Reno. Anything farther and I'll just fly there.

pderocco

Quote from: cl94 on June 18, 2024, 01:09:18 AMSigh... again, NDOT is doing just enough to placate the politicians and no further. Congress and Nevada's congresscritters degreed that it's going border to border, so NDOT needs to give it lip service.

NDOT's real intentions and expectations are in their long-range planning documents. None of which include I-11 north of Vegas, nor does their model. Heck, NDOT doesn't even identify US 95 as a priority corridor (a designation given to 93 and 395).

Gee, I thought perhaps NDOT was advertising the long distance plan because, if it ever materialized, it would steer work and money their way. I was impressed that there still existed a Department of Transportation somewhere that still liked the idea of building roads. Maybe I was wrong...

cl94

Quote from: US 395 on June 19, 2024, 12:23:06 AMI think there's a better chance of 395 being four-laned by NDOT and Caltrans from Gardnerville to Bridgeport than I-11 making it to 80.

Gardnerville to Topaz Lake is actually in the plans.

Quote from: pderocco on June 19, 2024, 12:42:04 AMGee, I thought perhaps NDOT was advertising the long distance plan because, if it ever materialized, it would steer work and money their way. I was impressed that there still existed a Department of Transportation somewhere that still liked the idea of building roads. Maybe I was wrong...

Building and maintaining roads costs money. If the feds aren't going to kick in the funds to build it (Interstate-specific funds are dead), the money either needs to be raised through taxes/tolls or come from elsewhere in the budget. If NDOT can get money from the feds earmarked to I-11 that doesn't require cannibalizing funds from elsewhere in the state, they'll build it. It would be horrendous politics to take money away from Vegas or Reno/Carson/Minden/Fernley/Tahoe to build something in the middle of nowhere.

NDOT has trouble finding the money to finish I-580 or do the much-needed US 395 upgrades between Carson and Topaz Lake, and that is a corridor that serves people. How are they going to find hundreds of billions of dollars to build a road in the middle of nowhere that will serve a couple thousand vehicles a day? Even the I-11 study materials say pretty clearly that a full freeway may never happen along the entire corridor. Apart from Clark and Washoe Counties (which have high county fuel taxes earmarked for roads), things generally aren't getting built in Nevada unless a local municipality or developer chips in substantially.

(personal opinion emphasized)
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Bruce

Quote from: cl94 on June 19, 2024, 01:02:50 AMNDOT has trouble finding the money to finish I-580

What would finishing I-580 entail?
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