It seems all new projects are being constructed as ETC-only, so how long until ISTHA goes completely cashless?
Quote from: I-39 on July 23, 2016, 09:22:36 PM
It seems all new projects are being constructed as ETC-only, so how long until ISTHA goes completely cashless?
Hopefully never if you don't want to stop then just get I Pass. The recently reconstructed the Belvidere exit on I-90 which does accept cash so it's not completely true that every new project is completely cashless.
Generally it's only projects that add new ramps or highways that are I-Pass only. For projects modifying existing interchanges such as I-90 at Genoa Road, I-90 at Barrington Road, and I-90 at Roselle Road they will usually have a cash option for the existing ramps (including those ramps that were previously untolled), but any new ramps being added will be I-Pass only.
Since you can pay online at the cash rate, there's really no reason to continue to offer the cash option.
Granted you'll put all the people manning the cash booths out of work.
Honestly I would not be shocked if within the next 5-10 years the I-Pass device itself become optional with mobile phones having an app and system in place. California already has no cash booths and everything is done online.
Quote from: quickshade on July 24, 2016, 10:28:35 AM
Honestly I would not be shocked if within the next 5-10 years the I-Pass device itself become optional with mobile phones having an app and system in place. California already has no cash booths and everything is done online.
They already are doing testing of phone apps I believe. For example, there is a testing area just North of the Touhy Avenue Toll Plaza on I-294.
Quote from: Stratuscaster on July 23, 2016, 10:53:44 PM
Since you can pay online at the cash rate, there's really no reason to continue to offer the cash option.
Granted you'll put all the people manning the cash booths out of work.
You would be surprised at how many people still don't have computers.
Quote from: quickshade on July 24, 2016, 10:28:35 AM
California already has no cash booths and everything is done online.
I'm only seeing the Golden Gate Bridge listed with 'pay by plate' for the Bay Area: http://mtc.ca.gov/getting-around/#geary-section-7 (http://mtc.ca.gov/getting-around/#geary-section-7)
Quote from: ChiMilNet on July 24, 2016, 11:19:03 AM
They already are doing testing of phone apps I believe. For example, there is a testing area just North of the Touhy Avenue Toll Plaza on I-294.
I recall hearing or reading somewhere that those gantries (Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0105355,-87.8686298,3a,75y,54.71h,91.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7jQVn8cIhi9Aw5TRBESC2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)) were for testing transponder interoperability (though they could probably be used for both phone and transponder testing).
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 23, 2016, 10:21:45 PM
Generally it's only projects that add new ramps or highways that are I-Pass only. For projects modifying existing interchanges such as I-90 at Genoa Road, I-90 at Barrington Road, and I-90 at Roselle Road they will usually have a cash option for the existing ramps (including those ramps that were previously untolled), but any new ramps being added will be I-Pass only.
That's because a cash option already existed on those ramps (or in the case of Genoa Road, no tolls previously existed, and an I-PASS only option there would require cash drivers to go way out of the way to exit). If no ramps had existed on those overpasses, then they'd be constructed as I-PASS only. In fact, I believe the new EB exit and WB entrance ramps at Barrington Road will be I-PASS only.
Quote from: I-39 on July 24, 2016, 03:38:25 PM
That's because a cash option already existed on those ramps (or in the case of Genoa Road, no tolls previously existed, and an I-PASS only option there would require cash drivers to go way out of the way to exit). If no ramps had existed on those overpasses, then they'd be constructed as I-PASS only. In fact, I believe the new EB exit and WB entrance ramps at Barrington Road will be I-PASS only.
The new ramps to/from the west at Barrington will be I-Pass only. But if ISTHA was going to be completely cashless in the next couple of years, they would most likely not be keeping a cash lane for the westbound exit, nor including a cash lane with the toll plaza to be added for the EB entrance.
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 24, 2016, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: I-39 on July 24, 2016, 03:38:25 PM
That's because a cash option already existed on those ramps (or in the case of Genoa Road, no tolls previously existed, and an I-PASS only option there would require cash drivers to go way out of the way to exit). If no ramps had existed on those overpasses, then they'd be constructed as I-PASS only. In fact, I believe the new EB exit and WB entrance ramps at Barrington Road will be I-PASS only.
The new ramps to/from the west at Barrington will be I-Pass only. But if ISTHA was going to be completely cashless in the next couple of years, they would most likely not be keeping a cash lane for the westbound exit, nor including a cash lane with the toll plaza to be added for the EB entrance.
With the new tolls on free ramps will they de toll the IL-53 / I-290 exit? some kind of virtual ticket system (etc only with discounts?)
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 24, 2016, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: quickshade on July 24, 2016, 10:28:35 AM
California already has no cash booths and everything is done online.
I'm only seeing the Golden Gate Bridge listed with 'pay by plate' for the Bay Area: http://mtc.ca.gov/getting-around/#geary-section-7 (http://mtc.ca.gov/getting-around/#geary-section-7)
Quote from: ChiMilNet on July 24, 2016, 11:19:03 AM
They already are doing testing of phone apps I believe. For example, there is a testing area just North of the Touhy Avenue Toll Plaza on I-294.
I recall hearing or reading somewhere that those gantries (Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0105355,-87.8686298,3a,75y,54.71h,91.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7jQVn8cIhi9Aw5TRBESC2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)) were for testing transponder interoperability (though they could probably be used for both phone and transponder testing).
Looking it up there are a few that are still allowing cash but it seems they are phasing them out. I found this:
QuoteAs of 2014, the following toll roads are fully automated and do not accept cash payments:
San Francisco Bay Area: Golden Gate Bridge (south-bound)
Southern California: SR 73, 133, 241 & 261 (Orange County), SR 125 (San Diego County - exact change or credit card OK),
Which explains why I didn't pay pass any toll booths when I was there last summer.
Quote from: Stratuscaster on July 23, 2016, 10:53:44 PM
Since you can pay online at the cash rate, there's really no reason to continue to offer the cash option.
Granted you'll put all the people manning the cash booths out of work.
If I'm driving around Chicago for a day I"m supposed to remember every toll point I passed?
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 25, 2016, 12:53:49 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on July 23, 2016, 10:53:44 PM
Since you can pay online at the cash rate, there's really no reason to continue to offer the cash option.
Granted you'll put all the people manning the cash booths out of work.
If I'm driving around Chicago for a day I"m supposed to remember every toll point I passed?
What about being like some other ETC roads bill you later with cash rate + an small admin fee. Monthly
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 25, 2016, 12:53:49 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on July 23, 2016, 10:53:44 PM
Since you can pay online at the cash rate, there's really no reason to continue to offer the cash option.
Granted you'll put all the people manning the cash booths out of work.
If I'm driving around Chicago for a day I"m supposed to remember every toll point I passed?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm.memegen.com%2F1egax9.jpg&hash=b8737752d833e4bba15e007175adcb6c39c414d5)
How do / will these work for drivers from out-of-state, who don't have I-PASS systems?
Quote from: invincor on July 26, 2016, 08:54:16 AM
How do / will these work for drivers from out-of-state, who don't have I-PASS systems?
What's supposed to happen is the toll authority gets a picture of your plates, and then either through an agreement with your state's DOT or (usually) through a third party that works with your state's DOT they will mail you a bill. But there have been a lot of holes in this method particularly when the out of state driver is from farther away; the Dallas area toll network has lost millions on out of state drivers they have been unable to reach. The NTTA recently reached reciprocity agreements with Oklahoma and Louisiana to bill those drivers more easily.
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
How about someone from Nebraska or Wyoming driving east on I-80. Are they supposed to research and apply for every single "pass" like they are getting Visas and inoculations for international travel? When I came back from Yellowstone and went across Kansas, the last few miles of I-70 ended up being tolled, I just handed someone in a booth a few bucks. A whole lot easier that if I would have to have gone to some website (and hoped it was the legitimate one and not some Russian scam mirror site) and filled out endless forms, CC numbers, and waited for some gadget to show up in the mail. These booths pull in hundreds of dollars an hour and lots of people need jobs since they shipped our industrial base off to Red China, I don't see why having cash booths is such a horrible thing other than the big brother people want to abolish cash to control you.
Quote from: captkirk_4 on July 28, 2016, 08:58:34 AM
How about someone from Nebraska or Wyoming driving east on I-80. Are they supposed to research and apply for every single "pass" like they are getting Visas and inoculations for international travel?
This.
All the toll roads in the world will likely eventually go completely cashless. (Hopefully!)
As a resident of a state with no formal toll roads, I voiced the same irritation and was basically told by several east coasters to STFU and buy a pass. Meh. I'd rather pay my toll on site and be done rather than waste time trying to pay them online later or waiting for bills that will take a very long time to arrive in my mailbox if their system is inadequate.
Yeah, it was a pain for me last week in Texas. I was planning my drive back and noticed that the George Bush and North Dallas Turnpikes both are ETC only. You can let them charge by plate, but I had a rental. You can pre-pay, but then you have to *call* them during business hours to set it up. The worst system on the planet!
This is why a phone system is important. If you could pay all your tolls via an app on your phone it would be much easier.
I still would like to know why this is so important? As long as you have I Pass you never have to stop. Why is it any of your concern whether they guy behind you in front of you or next to you doesn't and has to stop to pay a toll?
Quote from: Mdcastle on July 25, 2016, 12:53:49 PM
If I'm driving around Chicago for a day I"m supposed to remember every toll point I passed?
If you don't, ISTHA will do it for you for a fee.
ISTHA recommends you keep track, and if you forget, provides tools to help you remember.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/tolls-and-i-pass/unpaid-tolls
Quote from: dvferyance on July 24, 2016, 11:26:10 AM
You would be surprised at how many people still don't have computers.
Actually, no I wouldn't. Nor surprised at how many don't have smartphones.
ISTHA isn't either - which is why there is a pay-by-mail option as well.
Quote from: invincor on July 26, 2016, 08:54:16 AM
How do / will these work for drivers from out-of-state, who don't have I-PASS systems?
http://www.illinoistollway.com/tolls-and-i-pass/unpaid-tolls
Quote from: captkirk_4 on July 28, 2016, 08:58:34 AM
How about someone from Nebraska or Wyoming driving east on I-80. Are they supposed to research and apply for every single "pass" like they are getting Visas and inoculations for international travel?
No, you can research and apply for just one that will take you from Illinois to New York and other compatible systems. You could use Illinois' I-Pass or the EZ-Pass system used widely on the east coast.
I'm not against cash tolls at all, for what that's worth.
The other incentive to use an I-Pass in Illinois is that the tolls are HALF of the cash or pay online costs.
Quote from: dvferyance on July 24, 2016, 11:26:10 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on July 23, 2016, 10:53:44 PM
Since you can pay online at the cash rate, there's really no reason to continue to offer the cash option.
Granted you'll put all the people manning the cash booths out of work.
You would be surprised at how many people still don't have computers.
It's funny you say that (and you're right I would be surprised). I am by no means rich, and yet I have 4 laptops, 2 desktops and a tablet in my home as we speak. Only one (the laptop I'm typing this on) is mine, and one belongs to my 82 year old mother who lives with us.
I can remember when TV's and phones were the one per household item, and then computers. Now they all seem to be more than one per family member items.
Back on topic: I hope all tollroads figure out a way to be both cashless and compatible with all others. I can dream, can't I?
QuoteHow long until the Illinois Tollway goes completely cashless?
I didn't know they were running out of money.
<rimshot>
:bigass: :-D :clap:
And now back to the discussion of the future of electronic toll collection in Illinois.
:awesomeface:
If the Tollway does go cashless and relies on license plate recognition then I hope there if a facility to allow non-US residents driving rental cars to pay the toll without receiving violation tickets. Last year I had problems with exact change at an unmanned toll booth but I couldn't do anything about it as only US residents are able to pay retrospectively online. Thankfully someone on this forum paid the $1.50 for me rather than ending up with a violation plus a processing fee from the rental car company.
Seems like a rental car in Chicagoland should come with an iPass. Then the company can just add your tolls to your final bill.
If that's not a thing it really, really should be.
Quote from: Truvelo on July 29, 2016, 04:36:07 PM
If the Tollway does go cashless and relies on license plate recognition then I hope there if a facility to allow non-US residents driving rental cars to pay the toll without receiving violation tickets. Last year I had problems with exact change at an unmanned toll booth but I couldn't do anything about it as only US residents are able to pay retrospectively online. Thankfully someone on this forum paid the $1.50 for me rather than ending up with a violation plus a processing fee from the rental car company.
I've heard that, if they can see on the camera footage that you tossed money into the basket, then a violation will not be assessed. Not sure if that was accurate when I heard it.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 29, 2016, 04:57:23 PM
Seems like a rental car in Chicagoland should come with an iPass. Then the company can just add your tolls to your final bill.
If that's not a thing it really, really should be.
That may be, but the problem would still be there if he had rented the car in Des Moines and taken a side trip to Chicago.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 29, 2016, 04:57:23 PM
Seems like a rental car in Chicagoland should come with an iPass. Then the company can just add your tolls to your final bill.
If that's not a thing it really, really should be.
Some do offer such a thing for an additional fee.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 29, 2016, 04:57:23 PM
Seems like a rental car in Chicagoland should come with an iPass. Then the company can just add your tolls to your final bill.
If that's not a thing it really, really should be.
They do, for a fee to the rental company. I rented a car when mine was in the body shop almost two years ago, and it did come with an I-Pass. I declined and, of course, used my own.
Quote from: Brandon on July 29, 2016, 09:23:44 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 29, 2016, 04:57:23 PM
Seems like a rental car in Chicagoland should come with an iPass. Then the company can just add your tolls to your final bill.
If that's not a thing it really, really should be.
Without registering the car right? ;) :awesomeface:
They do, for a fee to the rental company. I rented a car when mine was in the body shop almost two years ago, and it did come with an I-Pass. I declined and, of course, used my own.
I don't even know what the point of the passes are in the first place. If you drive through one of these things without a pass, you get a bill in the mail. The pass is completely pointless. You should just have to register your car's tag and be done with it. It would also be the easiest way to make a 50-state system. No more needing 15 different passes to cover the country.
Quote from: 8.Lug on July 30, 2016, 04:39:05 AM
I don't even know what the point of the passes are in the first place. If you drive through one of these things without a pass, you get a bill in the mail. The pass is completely pointless. You should just have to register your car's tag and be done with it. It would also be the easiest way to make a 50-state system. No more needing 15 different passes to cover the country.
Do you own a credit card? The way I see it, an iPass is just like a credit card. It allows you to go about your day and worry about paying at a later date. It's not for everyone, but it is a lot more convenient.
Quote from: tribar on July 30, 2016, 11:36:23 AM
Quote from: 8.Lug on July 30, 2016, 04:39:05 AM
I don't even know what the point of the passes are in the first place. If you drive through one of these things without a pass, you get a bill in the mail. The pass is completely pointless. You should just have to register your car's tag and be done with it. It would also be the easiest way to make a 50-state system. No more needing 15 different passes to cover the country.
Do you own a credit card? The way I see it, an iPass is just like a credit card. It allows you to go about your day and worry about paying at a later date. It's not for everyone, but it is a lot more convenient.
Again - the point is that if you have the I-Pass (and this may apply to other systems as well) - the toll rate is HALF that of the cash or pay-by-mail/online rate. If you use the system a lot, that's not an insignificant amount.
It also costs less and is more reliable for the toll authority to process a pass - a pass processes automatically, but a plate photo requires a human to read the number. Plus the pass is pre-paid, with no need to chase someone for the amount owed and hoping they pay up.
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
Maybe the whole region needs to be taken over by ISTHA and go "cashless"?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
Don't forget that the rental car companies can charge a daily fee for talking a renter into getting their specific IPASS, and for those who are going to ride the toll roads without getting it, most likely will "accidentally" end up on one and not realizing it thanks to common ignorance now.
If the rental car companies are not lobbying in Springfield for cashless tolls, they are sure hoping for it as they can collect the unpaid toll fees that they themselves charge their customers. With no one anymore looking at maps and asking for best routes anymore thanks to GPS technology, it gives them a gold mine!
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
The Indiana toll road does not man any booths on the exit ramps. It's all automatic by machines I got all dollar coins back for change. Only the mainline plazas at both ends still have workers and that will probably be all automated too in the near future. They have the machines there too.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 02, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
The Indiana toll road does not man any booths on the exit ramps. It's all automatic by machines I got all dollar coins back for change. Only the mainline plazas at both ends still have workers and that will probably be all automated too in the near future. They have the machines there too.
What about high speed gate free ETC ?
Quote from: dvferyance on August 02, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
The Indiana toll road does not man any booths on the exit ramps. It's all automatic by machines I got all dollar coins back for change. Only the mainline plazas at both ends still have workers and that will probably be all automated too in the near future. They have the machines there too.
Right. But the money still has to be transported from the toll booth to some office somewhere, accounted for against expected receipts, and then transported to the bank. Along the way some sort of security must be provided as well.
Electronic tolling does this so much easier. Pretty much all the manual labor is done on the front end. (Basically stuffing the iPass into an envelope and mailing it out.) Everything else is done electronically and cash doesn't have to be handled.
You stop at the toll booths and pay each one...
Quote from: invincor on July 26, 2016, 08:54:16 AM
How do / will these work for drivers from out-of-state, who don't have I-PASS systems?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 02, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
The Indiana toll road does not man any booths on the exit ramps. It's all automatic by machines I got all dollar coins back for change. Only the mainline plazas at both ends still have workers and that will probably be all automated too in the near future. They have the machines there too.
Right. But the money still has to be transported from the toll booth to some office somewhere, accounted for against expected receipts, and then transported to the bank. Along the way some sort of security must be provided as well.
Electronic tolling does this so much easier. Pretty much all the manual labor is done on the front end. (Basically stuffing the iPass into an envelope and mailing it out.) Everything else is done electronically and cash doesn't have to be handled.
But you still have to hire workers to do that. So it makes the argument of not having to pay people a mute point.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 22, 2016, 08:31:32 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 02, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
The Indiana toll road does not man any booths on the exit ramps. It's all automatic by machines I got all dollar coins back for change. Only the mainline plazas at both ends still have workers and that will probably be all automated too in the near future. They have the machines there too.
Right. But the money still has to be transported from the toll booth to some office somewhere, accounted for against expected receipts, and then transported to the bank. Along the way some sort of security must be provided as well.
Electronic tolling does this so much easier. Pretty much all the manual labor is done on the front end. (Basically stuffing the iPass into an envelope and mailing it out.) Everything else is done electronically and cash doesn't have to be handled.
But you still have to hire workers to do that. So it makes the argument of not having to pay people a mute point.
The difference is you have to pay toll booth workers to collect tolls, But support people in the main office can not only handle incoming calls but they can look into billing problems, toll violations, mailing out letters and ipass transponders. So instead of paying someone to do one job, you can pay the same price and have them handle multiple tasks.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 22, 2016, 08:31:32 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 02, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 27, 2016, 10:56:57 PM
What's the big deal about going cashless? If you don't want to pay cash just get I Pass. Who cares what the other motorist do.
Cash is more expensive for the Tollway Authority. You have to pay people to handle it and there is risk involved with theft.
The Indiana toll road does not man any booths on the exit ramps. It's all automatic by machines I got all dollar coins back for change. Only the mainline plazas at both ends still have workers and that will probably be all automated too in the near future. They have the machines there too.
Right. But the money still has to be transported from the toll booth to some office somewhere, accounted for against expected receipts, and then transported to the bank. Along the way some sort of security must be provided as well.
Electronic tolling does this so much easier. Pretty much all the manual labor is done on the front end. (Basically stuffing the iPass into an envelope and mailing it out.) Everything else is done electronically and cash doesn't have to be handled.
But you still have to hire workers to do that. So it makes the argument of not having to pay people a mute point.
You have to pay *some* people yes. But you don't have to pay as many people. (toll booth operators, security, etc.)
Really is this that hard a concept to figure out? Personnel costs clearly go down with electronic tolling. Did anyone claim that it eliminated all personnel costs?