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What is the most substandard interstate?

Started by silverback1065, August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM

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Flint1979

Quote
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?).  Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.

The two curves near the I-69 interchange are pretty sharp curves. The whole thing gets pretty bad when it rains out too. The pothole problem is basically a Michigan problem but the roads as a whole in Genesee County are in poor shape.


vdeane

#26
They're not the straightest, but they don't strike me as being out of line.  Not even advisory speed or curve warning signs.
Plenty of similar curves on your typical upstate NY suburban interstate (though we would post 55 for that section of road instead of 70).  As far as I can tell, they're dime a dozen.

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 11, 2017, 01:07:37 PM
Any interstate within the borders of NYC, I-895 being the absolute worst
What's wrong with I-895?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

JKRhodes

#27
Certainly not "most" substandard by any means, but:

I-10 at Mile Marker 289 in Arizona prior to 2013 had narrow lanes, a tiny median and an interchange with nonexistent acceleration and deceleration lanes. It has since been upgraded.

I'm not a huge fan of the East Motel Drive interchange of Lordsburg, New Mexico in its current state. There's lots of cracked and buckled concrete, along with very little room to merge.

CapeCodder

Quote from: vdeane on August 11, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
I agree with I-278.  It and the Schuylkill are probably, if not the worst, at least in the top 5 out of all the interstates that don't have traffic lights (I-180, Breezewood).

"Honorable" mention for I-99 (PA segment), which won't intersect with another interstate for a very long time, if ever.

Quote from: Flint1979 on August 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?).  Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood? 

Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.

I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state.  US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)

But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Also curbs on some of the shoulders.  Yes, curbs.

Isn't there a church on the PA Turnpike that has steps that lead down to the road? I really hope no one goes down those steps.

Flint1979

Quote from: CapeCodder on August 11, 2017, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 11, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
I agree with I-278.  It and the Schuylkill are probably, if not the worst, at least in the top 5 out of all the interstates that don't have traffic lights (I-180, Breezewood).

"Honorable" mention for I-99 (PA segment), which won't intersect with another interstate for a very long time, if ever.

Quote from: Flint1979 on August 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?).  Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood? 

Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.

I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state.  US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)

But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Also curbs on some of the shoulders.  Yes, curbs.

Isn't there a church on the PA Turnpike that has steps that lead down to the road? I really hope no one goes down those steps.
St.John The Baptist in New Baltimore. It's in the middle of a 35 mile stretch with no exits.

Beltway

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood? 
Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.

But they seem to have ample accel-decel lane length to handle the speed transition.  I don't mind a 15 or 20mph ramp curve as long as it has a long enough accel-decel lane length to comfortably handle the speed transition.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state.  US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)

Some of them appear to have been modified to provide more clearance.  This is an issue with many of the older (pre-1965) Interstate highways in the country, less than the later standard of 16 feet vertical clearance.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.

Agreed, I won't defend that stretch, the 4-foot-wide median, the many substandard interchanges, and with traffic volumes that really warrant 6 lanes.
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Flint1979

I think the worst part of I-70 between Washington and New Stanton is the narrow median. The yellow strip is there but within a foot of the median wall.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood? 

Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.

I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state.  US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)

But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.

I-70 south (east) of Breezewood:

(1) Traffic signal at Breezewood itself;

(2) This interchange at PA-915;

(3) This at PA-643;

(4) Posted speed limit of 55 MPH along this entire section of I-70, with plenty of predatory enforcement by the PSP (reminds me of I-295 through Hopewell, Va.).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Roadsguy on August 11, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 11, 2017, 11:32:46 AM
Much  of I-78 from I-81 to the beginning of DRJTBC jurisdiction near Easton.

78 isn't really that bad. Most of it is pretty straight, with full inner shoulders even (a consequence of the original US 22 surface expressway having been built with a narrow grass median). Aside from ramp merge/exit lanes being a bit short, it's really only substandard in short bits:


  • The Grimes exit (Exit 15)
  • Through PA 61 and across the Schuylkill River at Hamburg (no inner shoulder and few ramp merge/exit lanes at all).
  • Near Lenhartsville the inner shoulder briefly disappears for some reason, and the exit for the town itself is tight and substandard.
  • At Smithville there's a small S-turn with no inner shoulder.

Not to mention that around Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, it's a nice, modern bypass built in the late 80s. Fix those four things and really the entire thing west of Allentown could safely handle a 70 mph speed limit, maybe even 75.

The pavement on I-78 from Exit 51 (U.S. 22) to the end of PennDOT maintenance at Exit 75 is frequently terrible, even though the design is clearly better than (for example) I-83 in Pennsylvania;

Truck crashes seem to be frequent (there's even one captured on Google here on the westbound side); and

On the eastbound side, a left-hand lane drop just after a fairly sharp curve east of Exit 60 (PA-309/PA-145) near the site of the truck crash above.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

TravelingBethelite

Quote from: Bitmapped on August 11, 2017, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 11, 2017, 10:12:57 AM
I think I-70 in Pennsylvania between the West Virginia border and Washington is pretty infamous for its abhorrent roadway quality.
That part of I-70 is fine. It's Washington, PA to New Stanton that has issues.

Come to think of it, that was the part I was thinking of. I suppose I geographically misplaced it.
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Now I decide where I go...

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MikeTheActuary

It was mentioned above, but apparently it needs repeating since the thread continues....

I-180 in Wyoming.

It isn't even a freeway.

https://goo.gl/maps/YG5ad8kBNzT2

hbelkins

Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments.  What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?

Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."

In my experience, I'd have to say I-83.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

hotdogPi

Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments.  What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?

Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."

In my experience, I'd have to say I-83.

"I-278 in NYC" is not the whole thing, either, and that's in the OP, after correcting 287 to 278 (as confirmed in reply #5).

Also, I-180 should have been the end of the thread.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Flint1979

It makes no sense for I-180 in Wyoming to be numbered as such. It's already Business I-25, US 85 and Business US 87. How this highway got federal funding for an Interstate is a mystery.

roadman65

Quote from: Bitmapped on August 11, 2017, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 11, 2017, 10:12:57 AM
I think I-70 in Pennsylvania between the West Virginia border and Washington is pretty infamous for its abhorrent roadway quality.
That part of I-70 is fine. It's Washington, PA to New Stanton that has issues.
Like at one time there were no merge areas on that stretch.  One notably in Bentleville where I had to wait five minutes to get on the interstate there.

I-68 in Cumberland and I-78 between Hamburg and Fogelsville in PA as that is still 55 mph (or was at least) because of its old US 22 expressway grading that never got modernized.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

vdeane

Quote from: 1 on August 12, 2017, 09:15:05 PM
"I-278 in NYC" is not the whole thing, either, and that's in the OP, after correcting 287 to 278 (as confirmed in reply #5).
While I-278 does live NYC in terms of hard city boundaries, it is in the NYC metro for its entire length.  Plus enough of it is substandard that is is still very high in the ranking.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

plain

Newark born, Richmond bred

kalvado

Quote from: Flint1979 on August 11, 2017, 07:18:01 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on August 11, 2017, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 11, 2017, 05:28:30 PM
I agree with I-278.  It and the Schuylkill are probably, if not the worst, at least in the top 5 out of all the interstates that don't have traffic lights (I-180, Breezewood).

"Honorable" mention for I-99 (PA segment), which won't intersect with another interstate for a very long time, if ever.

Quote from: Flint1979 on August 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
I-475 in Flint, Michigan. It's loaded with potholes throughout the entire stretch pretty much and has several S-curves.
The curves don't look that bad on street view, and potholes are a maintenance issue, not a substandard design (or are you insinuating that the potholes were placed there by MDOT before the road even opened?).  Strikes me as a typical interstate with old concrete.

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 11, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 11, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
What is so bad about I-70 south of Breezewood? 

Another issue is many of the exit/entrance ramps as well.... some are glorified RIRO's.

I also think some of the overpass clearances are less than desired (Which seems to have been a PennDOT standard in the middle of the state.  US-22 from Ebensburg <-> Holidaysburg have overpasses low enough that they rebuilt the concrete on the freeway cause just putting asphalt over top would raise the highway too much as well)

But I agree that this stretch of I-70 isn't anywhere near the same ballpark-of-awful as the Washington-New Stanton stretch.
Also curbs on some of the shoulders.  Yes, curbs.

Isn't there a church on the PA Turnpike that has steps that lead down to the road? I really hope no one goes down those steps.
St.John The Baptist in New Baltimore. It's in the middle of a 35 mile stretch with no exits.
well, if this is the artifact - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9846116,-78.7752909,3a,60y,5.85h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf_wBZoHnvREy3qqk0hDawg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 - it seems to be within right of way, behind fence and between gated service road and highway itself....

cpzilliacus

#43
Quote from: plain on August 13, 2017, 07:47:47 PM
I would say Maryland's I-895

Pre-Interstate design (rather similar in vintage to the Richmond Petersburg Turnpike, except that Maryland will always be charging a toll for using most of this road).  For many years up to the late 1970's or early 1980's it had no signed route number or was posted TO I-95.

The Canton Viaduct (about a one mile segment of the freeway north of the north tunnel portal over the railroad and under I-95) is going to be entirely replaced (the contract is advertised for bids now), and you can read more about it in the I-895/BHT thread.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

ColossalBlocks

I am inactive for a while now my dudes. Good associating with y'all.

US Highways: 36, 49, 61, 412.

Interstates: 22, 24, 44, 55, 57, 59, 72, 74 (West).

hbelkins

Quote from: ColossalBlocks on August 14, 2017, 12:02:12 AM
I-55 through the Memphis metro area.

sigh...

Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments.  What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?

Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

ColossalBlocks

Quote from: hbelkins on August 14, 2017, 09:14:36 AM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on August 14, 2017, 12:02:12 AM
I-55 through the Memphis metro area.

sigh...

Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments.  What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?

Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."

Oh, you want whole Interstates?

I-255.
I am inactive for a while now my dudes. Good associating with y'all.

US Highways: 36, 49, 61, 412.

Interstates: 22, 24, 44, 55, 57, 59, 72, 74 (West).

sbeaver44

I-676 is pretty substandard if the PA and NJ sections are considered one interstate.  The section around Franklin Square uses surface streets.

As far as two-digit Interstates go, I also vote I-83.  Unfortunately my home state of Pennsylvania is an embarrassment here, and I-83 inside the Baltimore Beltway is also not great.

Nexus 6P


JKRhodes

Quote from: hbelkins on August 12, 2017, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
We've talked about crappy roadways before, but only segments.  What interstate, as a whole, is the most substandard?

Reading comprehension is obviously not a thing on this forum, as I've seen plenty of responses similar to "I-9999 between Turkey Trot and Bean Blossom."

In my experience, I'd have to say I-83.

Then I nominate I-19. Due to metric signage which is very unamerican and therefore substandard.

CapeCodder




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