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Transitioning from Work-From-Home back to going to the office

Started by ZLoth, May 08, 2021, 08:36:34 PM

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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: hbelkins on June 15, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 15, 2021, 12:25:22 AM
I also prefer voice chats to video chats.

I prefer emails/texts/written messages over any type of voice or video chats. Don't call me when an email or text will suffice. I try to avoid talking on the phone whenever possible.

Regarding Zoom and other video apps, I've had to use several of them over the past 15 months. I've done conferences/meetings via MS Teams, Zoom, and BlueJeans. I've done media interviews via Zoom and FaceTime. We've been told to expect continued widespread use of remote meetings (probably because it's cheaper than paying for gas or expenses to travel to Frankfort). That, for the most part, suits me fine, because I'd rather log in to a remote video meeting at 9 a.m. than get up early and drive two hours to the mothership for a meeting.

Unless I have a need to be on camera (a television interview that's being recorded) I typically keep my camera off during those. I also keep my microphone off unless I need to speak.

It seems some of you younger folks have a greater need for socialization/personal interaction than I do. As I've gotten older, I've become more and more content with my own company.
I'm younger but I'm pretty much the same way, I prefer written messages to phone calls and hate turning my camera on. I do enjoy socialization and need it, but virtual socialization is extremely shitty and not a good substitute.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5


kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 AM
What's the point in people insisting that service workers smile, anyway? Is it because if they don't they might realize the place they're doing business in is a miserable dump, and they might have to sit down and take a long, hard, inconvenient look at the consequences of spending money in a place?

So the customers actually feel welcome?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

wanderer2575

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 22, 2021, 05:57:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2021, 02:20:09 PM
I have been working from home where there is no payroll (occupational tax). The town where my office is located levies a 2% tax. So in the 14-and-counting months since I've been working from home, I've had a de facto 2 percent raise, which is more of a raise than I have had since 2007. I won't enjoy having less take-home pay when I have to start paying the payroll tax.

I had no idea there were places where cities could charge payroll tax. As far as I know, that's not legal in Oklahoma.

Oh, my.  Every burg in Pennsylvania has an income tax, plus there are school district taxes based on residency.  Similar for much of Ohio.  Kentucky and Indiana have county payroll taxes.  Several cities here in Michigan are authorized by law (due to their population) to impose an income tax not only on residents but also on nonresidents working in those cities.  I certainly enjoyed paying a lot less Detroit tax last year.

Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2021, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 AM
What's the point in people insisting that service workers smile, anyway? Is it because if they don't they might realize the place they're doing business in is a miserable dump, and they might have to sit down and take a long, hard, inconvenient look at the consequences of spending money in a place?

So the customers actually feel welcome?

The fact that the door's unlocked and they're paying someone to stand there and take your money isn't enough of a tip-off?

Let's be real here. Whenever a cashier smiles at you they are putting on an act. It is fake. Some of them are better fakers than others. Just about the only time a cashier is smiling genuinely is if they have a vested interest in the business (that is, if they're the owner, or if it's small enough they actually feel like they make a difference in the rise or fall of the business, or else they are foolish enough to believe that if they help make Target more money they'll get something out of it), or if they're thinking about what they're going to do when their shift ends.

When I go into a business I want the person helping me to do so competently and quickly. I don't give a damn what they do with their face muscles when they're doing it. I'm there to conduct business, not watch a performance act.

Quote from: hbelkins on June 15, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
It seems some of you younger folks have a greater need for socialization/personal interaction than I do. As I've gotten older, I've become more and more content with my own company.

I'm just over half your age and I feel the same way, so it's not an age thing. Just what you're used to. I was an only child growing up, so I've always been content with amusing myself. When I need to socialize, I either talk to my wife or hop on the internet and bug someone in one of my group chats.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 02:18:14 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2021, 12:57:27 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 AM
What's the point in people insisting that service workers smile, anyway? Is it because if they don't they might realize the place they're doing business in is a miserable dump, and they might have to sit down and take a long, hard, inconvenient look at the consequences of spending money in a place?

So the customers actually feel welcome?

The fact that the door's unlocked and they're paying someone to stand there and take your money isn't enough of a tip-off?

Let's be real here. Whenever a cashier smiles at you they are putting on an act. It is fake. Some of them are better fakers than others. Just about the only time a cashier is smiling genuinely is if they have a vested interest in the business (that is, if they're the owner, or if it's small enough they actually feel like they make a difference in the rise or fall of the business, or else they are foolish enough to believe that if they help make Target more money they'll get something out of it), or if they're thinking about what they're going to do when their shift ends.

When I go into a business I want the person helping me to do so competently and quickly. I don't give a damn what they do with their face muscles when they're doing it. I'm there to conduct business, not watch a performance act.

Is it not fair to assume you might be in the minority on that, though?  Or at least that there are plenty of people who would rather shop where the clerks at least seem friendly than somewhere they don't?

Also, there are people who enjoy their job.  Granted, during my brief stint at Target in 2000-2001, I only actually had one cashier co-worker who seemed to really and actually enjoy it, but still, they do exist.  (Me?  I hated doing cashier, and I was glad I only had to once a month or so.)
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

74/171FAN

Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2021, 02:49:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 02:18:14 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2021, 12:57:27 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 AM
What's the point in people insisting that service workers smile, anyway? Is it because if they don't they might realize the place they're doing business in is a miserable dump, and they might have to sit down and take a long, hard, inconvenient look at the consequences of spending money in a place?

So the customers actually feel welcome?

The fact that the door's unlocked and they're paying someone to stand there and take your money isn't enough of a tip-off?

Let's be real here. Whenever a cashier smiles at you they are putting on an act. It is fake. Some of them are better fakers than others. Just about the only time a cashier is smiling genuinely is if they have a vested interest in the business (that is, if they're the owner, or if it's small enough they actually feel like they make a difference in the rise or fall of the business, or else they are foolish enough to believe that if they help make Target more money they'll get something out of it), or if they're thinking about what they're going to do when their shift ends.

When I go into a business I want the person helping me to do so competently and quickly. I don't give a damn what they do with their face muscles when they're doing it. I'm there to conduct business, not watch a performance act.

Is it not fair to assume you might be in the minority on that, though?  Or at least that there are plenty of people who would rather shop where the clerks at least seem friendly than somewhere they don't?

Also, there are people who enjoy their job.  Granted, during my brief stint at Target in 2000-2001, I only actually had one cashier co-worker who seemed to really and actually enjoy it, but still, they do exist.  (Me?  I hated doing cashier, and I was glad I only had to once a month or so.)

Some people just have very friendly personalities.  Some people are better at smiling on a bad day than others because they are grateful for what they already have.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

webny99

Also, some people genuinely enjoy interacting with others. I'm not generally one of those people, but I'm sure we all know people that are.

Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on June 15, 2021, 02:49:15 PM
Is it not fair to assume you might be in the minority on that, though?  Or at least that there are plenty of people who would rather shop where the clerks at least seem friendly than somewhere they don't?

What does "friendly" mean, though? Let's see what the dictionary says:

Quote from: Merriam-Websterof, relating to, or befitting a friend:

I invite my friends over to my house and we hang out, talk for hours, and play games. We talk about our problems and comfort one another about them. I often let them crash on the couch if they don't feel like driving home afterward.

Maybe the Target cashier is a cool enough person I would like to be her friend if I got to know her, but Target isn't the right venue to find out if she is or not, because doing so would take some time and I don't want to hold up her line. Other people need to check out too.

Also, when I was a cashier, people trying to form weird parasocial relationships like that over the counter kind of creeped me out–there is a power dynamic there because they are free to share whatever sort of thing pops into their head, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable, but if I disagree with them then they can tell my boss I was rude and I could get in trouble. So I don't want to put anyone else in that situation. I just do my business, am pleasant, and leave. My goal is to leave so little of an impression that the cashier forgets I existed 5 minutes later.

Quote from: Merriam-Webstersuch as
a : showing kindly interest and goodwill

Being kind and acting with goodwill is generally helpful for a business transaction. Showing interest? Ehhh... I've been in a few stores where I was buying groceries and the cashier started verbally speculating about what I was going to make with them. No, Ernest, I'm not making a giant lasagna, your store is the only one that carries my favorite pasta sauce so I'm buying ten bottles to keep in my pantry. Why do I have to justify my purchase to you again?

Ideally, a customer-service employee has enough interest to suss out what the customer wants and how to make that happen. Too much and you're overstepping boundaries and getting distracted by stuff that doesn't matter (if you are withdrawing money from the bank, I need to know whether you want it back in smaller bills, but I don't really need to know that you want it in small bills because you're doing a garage sale). Too little and you're a pain to deal with because you're too inflexible and give the customer something they don't really want. It's a tough line to balance.

In any case, none of that really justifies a fake smile. And I've had people fake-smile at me while acting unkindly and without goodwill. The fake smile kind of makes that worse.

Quote from: Merriam-Websterb : not hostile

I do like it when people aren't hostile. But you can be not hostile with a neutral expression on your face.

Quote from: Merriam-Websterc : cheerful, comforting

Here's the crux of it. Do I really need my cashier to be cheerful? I mean, we know already they're not, actually, in most cases, experiencing cheer, based on the fact that they're probably making something like $10/hour or less, with random days off that change from week to week, and often aren't allowed basic human dignities like a chair to sit down in. So do I really need my cashier to fake being cheerful?

I'm not arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to be cheerful at work, mind you. Even in the hellhole where I worked as a cashier, there were a few people that really got into learning all the customers' names and life stories and being friendly to them. But those people were often the ones at the end of the night who had to go over their paperwork with a fine toothed comb because they got distracted, fucked up, and overpaid a customer at some point. And meanwhile I had to deal with catty comments from random people I didn't know because I dared to focus on the task at hand rather than faking a smile, but the result was that the drawer was usually perfectly balanced.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JoePCool14

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 AM
[...]

There's definitely a lot to say about Zoom versus other video/voice chat programs. And while I wasn't referring specifically to having to use Zoom versus something like Microsoft Teams, that's definitely a valid point. Using Discord is great in comparison, and I've heard that some teachers actually straight-up have used Discord to host classes, take attendance, etc. But I meant more completing classes online in general. That's the part I struggle with. It doesn't matter what platform the teacher is using.

Also, I actually like when the teacher encourages leaving the camera on, because when I have the camera on, I'm more likely to stay focused and also remember that I'm in a live class. It's too easy to get distracted otherwise.

I'll bypass the politics of virus restrictions, but I'll certainly cut slack because in March 2020, we really didn't know what to expect with COVID. But months and months later, we very much do. Something, something, hindsight 20/20. But anyways, let's move on.

Finally, I actually do try to smile at customers and be friendly, some of them go out of their way to say they appreciated it. I've worked at the same store for three and a half years, and I like my job. I know not everyone can say that, not where I work, and certainly not all retail workers, but I can. And when I smile, it's not forced. At the end of my days, I'm still tired and become less sociable, but that's usually how it goes.

Quote from: webny99 on June 15, 2021, 03:07:42 PM
Also, some people genuinely enjoy interacting with others. I'm not generally one of those people, but I'm sure we all know people that are.

This would be me at the moment. Maybe this will change as I get older. Who knows.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 15, 2021, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 AM
[...]

There's definitely a lot to say about Zoom versus other video/voice chat programs. And while I wasn't referring specifically to having to use Zoom versus something like Microsoft Teams, that's definitely a valid point. Using Discord is great in comparison, and I've heard that some teachers actually straight-up have used Discord to host classes, take attendance, etc. But I meant more completing classes online in general. That's the part I struggle with. It doesn't matter what platform the teacher is using.

Also, I actually like when the teacher encourages leaving the camera on, because when I have the camera on, I'm more likely to stay focused and also remember that I'm in a live class. It's too easy to get distracted otherwise.

I'll bypass the politics of virus restrictions, but I'll certainly cut slack because in March 2020, we really didn't know what to expect with COVID. But months and months later, we very much do. Something, something, hindsight 20/20. But anyways, let's move on.

Finally, I actually do try to smile at customers and be friendly, some of them go out of their way to say they appreciated it. I've worked at the same store for three and a half years, and I like my job. I know not everyone can say that, not where I work, and certainly not all retail workers, but I can. And when I smile, it's not forced. At the end of my days, I'm still tired and become less sociable, but that's usually how it goes.

Quote from: webny99 on June 15, 2021, 03:07:42 PM
Also, some people genuinely enjoy interacting with others. I'm not generally one of those people, but I'm sure we all know people that are.

This would be me at the moment. Maybe this will change as I get older. Who knows.
Discord also doesn't seem to work as well as zoom. Discord is more prone to cutting out.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

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Scott5114

What Discord issues I've had, I suspect are actually rooted in ISP or LAN network latency issues. My regular weekly Discord voice chats have involved two folks from Riverside CA, myself in Norman OK, one in rural McClain County OK, and one in even more rural Grady County OK. The Grady County user has the most issues and has to drop out of the call and rejoin it about once every few weeks or so. McClain County has had some issues, but not as many as Grady. Meanwhile, we have had few issues in Norman and Riverside. One of the Riverside users even joined us once from his phone on CA 91, with no issues.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

JoePCool14

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2021, 12:23:35 AM
What Discord issues I've had, I suspect are actually rooted in ISP or LAN network latency issues. My regular weekly Discord voice chats have involved two folks from Riverside CA, myself in Norman OK, one in rural McClain County OK, and one in even more rural Grady County OK. The Grady County user has the most issues and has to drop out of the call and rejoin it about once every few weeks or so. McClain County has had some issues, but not as many as Grady. Meanwhile, we have had few issues in Norman and Riverside. One of the Riverside users even joined us once from his phone on CA 91, with no issues.

If you get dropped from a Discord call only once every few weeks, I'd say he's doing pretty good.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

Scott5114

Quote from: JoePCool14 on June 16, 2021, 09:05:34 AM
If you get dropped from a Discord call only once every few weeks, I'd say he's doing pretty good.

We've never had anyone actually drop from the call unless there's something wrong with their Internet or computer. The most common mode of failure is latency causing packets to drop, which manifests as having a slowed-down "robot voice". Usually hanging up and rejoining the call, or resetting the router/modem, fixes it.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

ftballfan

I started a new job at the end of March and I've been in the office five days a week the entire time (except for a day and a half working from home for non-job reasons). My coworkers and I have separate cubicles which are all separated from each other by well over six feet. I much prefer working in the office as the programs run much faster there and I have three monitors. Side note: I've been vaccinated since April as my sister and I signed up for vaccines as soon as eligibility opened to our age group. Speaking of my sister, her workplace reopened the offices a few weeks ago, so she goes into the office between once and twice per week. She prefers working from home as she gets to work with her four-pawed coworker and she has a lot of video calls every day.

ZLoth

From NPR:

Returning to the office, a moment of joy for some. Others, would rather stay home
QuoteSteve Tordone has been waiting for this moment for two years. Sure, he's got a great set up for working at home, and it was nice to be around the family and the dogs. But he prefers working at his office in a downtown Boston high-rise where he works as a financial advisor.

"I'm an outdoor cat and I just want I want to see people," he says, "I can't wait for it to get crowded."

Tordone is starting to get his wish. In Boston, as across the nation, a "back-to-work March" has begun. With the omicron variant now on the wane, companies from American Express to Meta and Citigroup — are officially calling on employees to return to the office this month, while also trying to stay flexible enough so as not to lose those who prefer to work from home. Many firms are starting with "soft openings," but already, offices, streets and garages are filling back up.
FULL ARTICLE HERE

As of the beginning of March, I am now allowed to work in the office. I was going nuts when a home office that I expected to work-from-home only occasionally became my main office for two years. I just wonder how many people's plans to return to the office got stymied by the shock increase in gas prices. It doesn't affect me, as I can walk to the office (15 minutes each way, anyone?).
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

Rothman

Quote from: ZLoth on March 09, 2022, 11:38:46 PM
From NPR:

Returning to the office, a moment of joy for some. Others, would rather stay home
QuoteSteve Tordone has been waiting for this moment for two years. Sure, he's got a great set up for working at home, and it was nice to be around the family and the dogs. But he prefers working at his office in a downtown Boston high-rise where he works as a financial advisor.

"I'm an outdoor cat and I just want I want to see people," he says, "I can't wait for it to get crowded."

Tordone is starting to get his wish. In Boston, as across the nation, a "back-to-work March" has begun. With the omicron variant now on the wane, companies from American Express to Meta and Citigroup — are officially calling on employees to return to the office this month, while also trying to stay flexible enough so as not to lose those who prefer to work from home. Many firms are starting with "soft openings," but already, offices, streets and garages are filling back up.
FULL ARTICLE HERE

As of the beginning of March, I am now allowed to work in the office. I was going nuts when a home office that I expected to work-from-home only occasionally became my main office for two years. I just wonder how many people's plans to return to the office got stymied by the shock increase in gas prices. It doesn't affect me, as I can walk to the office (15 minutes each way, anyone?).
I walk to my office in under 10 minutes.

The only trick with telecommuting is that there are times I wish I could just grab everyone for five minutes instead of having to set up a web conference or call.

But, that's a small price to pay so people can work from home.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Scott5114

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 23, 2021, 06:21:23 PM
If I could find a work-from-home job that didn't require a college degree I'd pounce on it.

Well, past Scott, you'll succeed at that in October.

I just measured the walk to my office: 22'7". And I love it that way.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Ted$8roadFan

Our hybrid work schedule (part-time work from home and trips to the office) began last week, and it's been going well in spite of many delays and some misgivings. It's hard to believe it's been exactly two years since  we were sent home. Commuting into Boston is still a pain, but not nearly as crowded. The city is also coming back to life, although there are still many empty storefronts and few businesses open that aren't chains. There are still capacity limits as far as having too many people in the office at once.  Pretty much everyone I know, esp. those with children, love the flexibility offered by hybrid work. So far, so good.

MikeTheActuary

Our offices are open for folks who want to come in, and "essential business travel" is now allowed.

However, managers cannot require staff to be in-office for mandatorily-in-person meetings before May, and the company's position on "new normal" after that time is (depending on who you ask): "do what makes sense for your team" or "we would like you to come in frequently, but there is no minimum number of days a week you need to be in", with managers being allowed to require physical attendance for some meetings.

I'm still officially full-time WFH (although I had to do some paperwork to confirm that status).  Not certain yet when I'll start shuttling up to the Montreal office, since during the pandemic we had some staffing changes and acquired another insurer....so my team is now scattered among Montréal, Toronto, and India.

kphoger

Quote from: Rothman on March 09, 2022, 11:46:11 PM
The only trick with telecommuting is that there are times I wish I could just grab everyone for five minutes instead of having to set up a web conference or call.

But, that's a small price to pay so people can work from home.

To me, that's not a small price.  That's by far the biggest reason I disliked working from home during those seven weeks a couple of years ago.  It's why, when we had the option of working from home a while later, I said no way.

I can't stand not being able to just walk into someone's office, point to the computer screen, and ask a direct question.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

abefroman329

I started a new job back in April of 2021.  The company is headquartered in Chicago, and I have a workspace at the head office, but:

(a) of the ~60 employees, only five live in/near Chicago
(b) also likely due to the fact that literally no one goes to the office five days a week, my home office setup is miles better than the setup at my workspace.

We are working on selling our place and buying a new one, where I'll have my own office (I've been temporarily borrowing my wife's office for the last two years).  I agree that, at the end of the day, it's better to work in person than virtually, but the fact that my boss lives in Seattle, and his boss lives in Oklahoma City, and his boss lives in Milwaukee, means that speaking to any of them in person isn't an option anyway.

Rothman

Quote from: kphoger on March 10, 2022, 10:31:45 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 09, 2022, 11:46:11 PM
The only trick with telecommuting is that there are times I wish I could just grab everyone for five minutes instead of having to set up a web conference or call.

But, that's a small price to pay so people can work from home.

To me, that's not a small price.  That's by far the biggest reason I disliked working from home during those seven weeks a couple of years ago.  It's why, when we had the option of working from home a while later, I said no way.

I can't stand not being able to just walk into someone's office, point to the computer screen, and ask a direct question.
Call them...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

triplemultiplex

Some of my "business casual" hasn't seen daylight in two years.

For better or worse, I've grown to like rolling out of bed pretty much whenever I'm ready and logging in to work rocking my "leisure attire" all day every day.  Yeah there's still some things that go better in the office and I'll duck in once a week maybe for that, but that's more out of the desire to hit the grocery store on the way home than a need to go in.

I guess what is nice about office days, though, is shooting the shit with coworkers again.  Yeah you can chat things at each other throughout the day, but it's not the same.  I am also looking forward to the return of impromptu happy hours.  Spur of the moment, today was rough so let's hit the nearby watering hole.  With the remote work, it takes more coordination since everyone isn't starting from the same place.  So that leads such brainstorms to die in committee, as it were.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

SSOWorld

I started work at the office again last June and I mix and match between home/office.  I had a bedroom that was a pseudo office and housed my homemade gaming rig.  I had to improvise to set up using folding tables but in the end, I have dedicated space that is not my couch or my bed.  I need to do the office thing even if it means driving 1/2 hour one way just to get myself out of the house (otherwise I feel trapped.  9 days from now I recall being day 1 of 100% remote work.  the day before was leary because I drove around Dubuque, IA - and the level of traffic that day was like traffic on Sunday - or at 2 AM.
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.



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