Atlanta

[JoeP]

APL?

[compdude787]

APL?

APL = Arrow Per Lane.

[Finrod]

It also appears that Georgia DOT had to move the sign because of the bridge that was built at the prior APL spot.  Is the new bridge a pedestrian walkway or is it for the tram system that was in its infancy the last time I was in Atlanta?

It's a pedestrian bridge for that damned baseball stadium.

[Georgia]

yea, that is the $8 million dollar pedestrian bridge that was half finished 2 months into the season because of good planning.  havent been to SunTrust in months, but i assume it is completed now.

[Tom958]

APL's in Atlanta: the gift that keeps on giving. Just in the last week, what used to be a curved arrow under I-20 east was replaced by the split arrow you see now. There's a story: when the rebuilding of the Downtown Connector was finished in 1989, the lane that goes to I-20 east also continued straight for a thousand feet or so to an exit only lane for Fulton Street/Atlanta Stadium/Turner Field. Long ago, that exit lane was truncated so that it led only to I-20 east, beginning again as an auxiliary lane just beyond the gore... until sometime this week, when the old configuration was restored and the split arrow added to the APL. Annoyingly, the highway was repaved within the last few months, but GDOT hadn't come up with this scheme them, so the old markings have been conspicuously blacked over. 

Here's the Google Streetview if you want to look around.

[Tomahawkin]

That 2500 feet merge from freedom Pkwy to IH 20 Is hell. It needs serious help but I have no idea what can be done there since there is no room for widening on both sides of the connector on the Grady Curve??? Anyone have suggestions? The connector between IH20 and the brookwood interchange handles over 500K a day. And has to be a top 5 stretch of dangerous interstates in the country? IMO

[Tom958]

[Georgia]

lovely pic of the 75/575 interchange and the northwest express lexus roller coaster lanes

[Tom958]

lovely pic of the 75/575 interchange and the northwest express lexus roller coaster lanes

Why, thank you!


The Equifax option lane, reintroduced after a hiatus of (I think) about a quarter century. Unlike the last APL  fix I showed you, they did a neat job. The special striping to the left was introduced fairly recently to make it clearer which lanes go to which Interstate-- I was surprised to see a second special stripe added to the right. Gee, I dunno.  Note also the added shield for 85 in the option lane. There's at least one and maybe two other sets of pavement shields like this.



A generally successful effort is marred, IMO, by this weird split arrow, which confusingly resembles a gore. Call in the grinder again, please. 

[Tom958]

And, hopefully of greater significance: Within (I'm pretty sure) the last few days, along with some APL-related changes I've already posted about, this sign for the Edgewood Ave exit and the one for the subsequent International Blvd exit were changed from 2009 MUTCD-complaint twin black-on-yellow arrows to the old skool scheme you see here. To me, this amounts to extending a middle finger to the single most objectionable feature of the 2009 MUTCD, and don't mind admitting that I'm giddy about it. It's all the more remarkable considering that several of the rogue APL's that GDOT is famous for have been corrected recently ( two items on this page). Something is going on. Here's the Streetview link in case you want to look around.



Having made my own opinion clear, I'm not gonna reargue the point, but I would like to mention that there are many places in Georgia where the sign is mounted before the option lane starts to widen rather than at or near the physical nose, thereby making it appear that two lanes are being dropped rather than one. That was the case here, actually, until the change. I'm wondering now if practical experience with accidents is playing a bigger role here than philosophy.  Either way, we may be seeing a lot of this in the future.

[Tom958]

Triple post!    Obviously, nobody cares about this stuff, but I uploaded this photo to Imgur, so might as well do something with it: Unlike other states, Georgia never used dual upward-pointing arrows on exit signs in the pre-2009 MUTCD era, and of course said MUTCD forbade the use of white-on-green and black-on-yellow arrows on the same sign. So, until those two signs I mentioned in the post above, the only time I'd ever seen that configuration in Georgia was on the southbound detour for during the I-85 bridge disaster, pointing to this ramp that'd been temporarily restriped from one lane to two. It looks great, too. I'm gonna guess that clarity trumped MUTCD compliance in that case.

[adventurernumber1]

Obviously, nobody cares about this stuff, but I uploaded this photo to Imgur, so might as well do something with it

Do not worry; I care! 

I've seen all of your posts lately on this topic and have found them fascinating, but I hadn't gotten the chance to reply until now.

I agree with you, Tom, as I think that these new signs are indeed much clearer, and it is a very good change. I think some of your earlier recent posts on this topic were talking about how there were some APL clarity problems in Georgia that needed to be addressed, and now they are fixed, so that's good. This came as a pleasant surprise to me. I think these new signs better inform you of the fact that there are some option lanes in the mix, and that is definitely important.

Thanks for sharing!! 


All of this stuff is looking real nice, but with that said....

There is one thing that turned out a bit strange...

A generally successful effort is marred, IMO, by this weird split arrow, which confusingly resembles a gore.

I agree with ya there. It does look an awful lot like a gore. The funny thing is that I actually thought that's what it was the first millisecond I saw the picture - I thought that they had possibly relocated the gore (for some reason) to where the split arrow actually is - then, by the time a few seconds passed, visually it didn't add up, and I looked closer at the picture and then easily realized that that was not the case. 



But that is a weird arrow - I'm sure GDOT had their reasons for using it, but it is just new and unusual to me - I don't know if it is incorrect or not (probably not), but somebody else would have to tell me that. 

[Tom958]

A few days in, and everybody who's seen it agrees: fake gore must go, and soon.

Also, this morning I discovered that white-on-green arrows have also been installed at two locations on the southbound side. One is the Williams Street exit, where the sign with "Georgia Dome" was replaced with one with "Mercedes-Benz Stadium" only within the last couple of weeks! Hasty much?

[Eth]

A few days in, and everybody who's seen it agrees: fake gore must go, and soon.

Also, this morning I discovered that white-on-green arrows have also been installed at two locations on the southbound side. One is the Williams Street exit, where the sign with "Georgia Dome" was replaced with one with "Mercedes-Benz Stadium" only within the last couple of weeks! Hasty much?

Perhaps, as you suggested a few posts ago, they felt the change was necessary for safety reasons and thus decided it couldn't wait. I certainly won't be shedding any tears over the loss of the (IMO) incorrect signs, that's for sure.

[Tom958]

Perhaps, as you suggested a few posts ago, they felt the change was necessary for safety reasons and thus decided it couldn't wait. I certainly won't be shedding any tears over the loss of the (IMO) incorrect signs, that's for sure.

Well, the option lane at the 75-85 split was removed decades ago. It's hard for me to understand why reintroducing it would've been an urgent safety need. What I am sure of is that I wish I had a pal at GDOT or FHWA who knows what's going on and would talk to me about it.

New topic: the ramp from eastbound I-20 to northbound 285 on the east side has been restored to its original configuration by adding a second lane from the ramp split to... it starts to narrow at the start of the curve, and is gone by the bridge over I-20. I'm too lazy to post a photo, but check out the laughably heinous little ground-mounted sign.It's still there for now, btw, though the grossly undersized arrow on the left overhead is gone.

[Eth]

Perhaps, as you suggested a few posts ago, they felt the change was necessary for safety reasons and thus decided it couldn't wait. I certainly won't be shedding any tears over the loss of the (IMO) incorrect signs, that's for sure.

Well, the option lane at the 75-85 split was removed decades ago. It's hard for me to understand why reintroducing it would've been an urgent safety need. What I am sure of is that I wish I had a pal at GDOT or FHWA who knows what's going on and would talk to me about it.

I meant the signs, not the resurrected option lane or the suboptimal associated pavement markings.

[Tom958]

And one more thing: the exit only panel here, in addition to being one of several with ridiculous upward-pointing arrows, also indicates a lane that isn't exit only. The panel has been removed, apparently quite recently. It'll be interesting to see whether the rest of the signs are fixed.

[Tom958]

Sign replacement is underway on I-85 between 285 and Sugarloaf or so, and GDOT is clearly all in on the dual-color arrow scheme for signing multilane exits with option lanes that I posted about earlier. Among the welcome casualties is this sign, once an also-ran candidate for stupidest-looking sign in the state, but now rid of its double border as well as having its arrows redone.



There are two places where I suspect that the new signage is not compliant with the 2009 MUTCD, but in a different way: the dropped lanes at the Pleasant Hill and GA 120-Boggs Road exits are added lanes of relatively short length, short enough that they're supposed to be signed with two white arrows, as was done a few miles away on GA 316 at GA 20-Collins Hill Road. I prefer what GDOT did on 85, though, because it seems more consistent.


There's also a new sign at the 85-316 divergence, and new gantries are being erected to replace the diagrammatic signs, which have aged badly. With no option lane at the split, the new signs had better be conventional. No more rogue APL's!

[adventurernumber1]

Sign replacement is underway on I-85 between 285 and Sugarloaf or so, and GDOT is clearly all in on the dual-color arrow scheme for signing multilane exits with option lanes that I posted about earlier. Among the welcome casualties is this sign, once an also-ran candidate for stupidest-looking sign in the state, but now rid of its double border as well as having its arrows redone.



There are two places where I suspect that the new signage is not compliant with the 2009 MUTCD, but in a different way: the dropped lanes at the Pleasant Hill and GA 120-Boggs Road exits are added lanes of relatively short length, short enough that they're supposed to be signed with two white arrows, as was done a few miles away on GA 316 at GA 20-Collins Hill Road. I prefer what GDOT did on 85, though, because it seems more consistent.


There's also a new sign at the 85-316 divergence, and new gantries are being erected to replace the diagrammatic signs, which have aged badly. With no option lane at the split, the new signs had better be conventional. No more rogue APL's!

This is all very intriguing news to hear! 

What's interesting is that I actually went to the Athens, Georgia area just this past Saturday (October 14th) to see family and the UGA game and such. Despite getting a lot of sleep the night before, IIRC, I was severely fatigued on the drive over there Saturday morning (I probably should have gotten a coffee at the Cracker Barrel off of I-75's Exit 271 near Kennesaw, GA (Chastain Road; TO I-575 NORTH) that morning). As a result, I unfortunately wasn't fully in tune with the sights on the road. When I was riding on that stretch of the drive close to the I-85/GA 316 interchange, I could have sworn that something looked different about a lot of signs, but I was too tired and slow to think about it or even snap a picture - though I actually had myself quite a lot of road photos snapped collectively on that trip (and a couple of road videos as well); it's just for some reason, on the way there, my fatigue was the worst on Interstate 85 Northbound between I-285 and GA SR 316. It truly is a shame it worked out that way, as this stuff would have been quite something to coherently encode in my mind and snap pictures of on my phone, should I have been sufficiently alert at the time.

Trying to tap into my blurry, sedated memories from the drive, I think I might remember seeing the diagrammatic signs at the I-85/GA 316 interchange replaced with signs that looked much different, but I cannot for the life of me remember in what way it was (or maybe I truly am crazy). This is what one of those signs looked like when I snapped a picture of it on an identical trip back in late 2014:





Last Edit before this was at 06:37:43 PM

[Tom958]

...When I was riding on that stretch of the drive close to the I-85/GA 316 interchange, I could have sworn that something looked different about a lot of signs, but I was too tired and slow to think about it or even snap a picture - though I actually had myself quite a lot of road photos snapped collectively on that trip (and a couple of road videos as well); it's just for some reason, on the way there, my fatigue was the worst on Interstate 85 Northbound between I-285 and GA SR 316. It truly is a shame it worked out that way, as this stuff would have been quite something to coherently encode in my mind and snap pictures of on my phone, should I have been sufficiently alert at the time.

Trying to tap into my blurry, sedated memories from the drive, I think I might remember seeing the diagrammatic signs at the I-85/GA 316 interchange replaced with signs that looked much different, but I cannot for the life of me remember in what way it was (or maybe I truly am crazy). This is what one of those signs looked like when I snapped a picture of it on an identical trip back in late 2014:


Last Edit before this was at 06:37:43 PM

That sign and the other diagrammatics are still there. The only new signs are at the gore. and I'm not gonna upload a photo because they're just modernized versions of what was already there. I'm told that they worked every night this week on the median side support for that diagrammatic's replacement, but it's still not done yet. A friend pointed out that GDOT wouldn't have ordered such a huge new gantry unless they planned to put a rogue APL there, but I hope and believe that they've changed their mind, possibly after the new gantries were ordered. After all, there's been evidence of great haste regarding APL-related events downtown, We'll see.

[Tomahawkin]

Heard that the 75/575 toll lane project will not be completed til August of next year? Any validity to this? Drove by the southern end of it near the C. Cloverleaf, and it there is a lot left to do...Also I wonder what's the next big toll lane project once this is completed?

[Georgia]

Heard that the 75/575 toll lane project will not be completed til August of next year? Any validity to this? Drove by the southern end of it near the C. Cloverleaf, and it there is a lot left to do...Also I wonder what's the next big toll lane project once this is completed?

it is true, they are blaming it on the workers being diverted for the 85 fix this spring.

[adventurernumber1]

Heard that the 75/575 toll lane project will not be completed til August of next year? Any validity to this? Drove by the southern end of it near the C. Cloverleaf, and it there is a lot left to do...Also I wonder what's the next big toll lane project once this is completed?

I might be wrong, but a few years back when I was reading about the (then) newly started construction on the tolled express lanes on I-75 & I-575, whatever source(s) I was reading said that some of those new ramps they have been constructing at the (north) I-75/I-285 interchange may accommodate for the possibility in the future of tolled express lanes (or something of the sort) being built on that part of Interstate 285, IIRC. Someone else may know what I am talking about..

...When I was riding on that stretch of the drive close to the I-85/GA 316 interchange, I could have sworn that something looked different about a lot of signs, but I was too tired and slow to think about it or even snap a picture - though I actually had myself quite a lot of road photos snapped collectively on that trip (and a couple of road videos as well); it's just for some reason, on the way there, my fatigue was the worst on Interstate 85 Northbound between I-285 and GA SR 316. It truly is a shame it worked out that way, as this stuff would have been quite something to coherently encode in my mind and snap pictures of on my phone, should I have been sufficiently alert at the time.

Trying to tap into my blurry, sedated memories from the drive, I think I might remember seeing the diagrammatic signs at the I-85/GA 316 interchange replaced with signs that looked much different, but I cannot for the life of me remember in what way it was (or maybe I truly am crazy). This is what one of those signs looked like when I snapped a picture of it on an identical trip back in late 2014:


Last Edit before this was at 06:37:43 PM

That sign and the other diagrammatics are still there. The only new signs are at the gore. and I'm not gonna upload a photo because they're just modernized versions of what was already there. I'm told that they worked every night this week on the median side support for that diagrammatic's replacement, but it's still not done yet. A friend pointed out that GDOT wouldn't have ordered such a huge new gantry unless they planned to put a rogue APL there, but I hope and believe that they've changed their mind, possibly after the new gantries were ordered. After all, there's been evidence of great haste regarding APL-related events downtown, We'll see.

Well, I must have been insane, then! 

If only I had been alert enough to encode what I saw correctly and coherently, but what can I do..   

Well, keep us updated on the work that they are doing over there, and thanks for the information! I also as well hope that they make the right decisions on the new signs regarding APL's. 

 

[Tomahawkin]

Anyone know when the 75/575 toll lane project will be finished? I'm guessing June 20th? Also I'm guessing the next big toll lane project will be announced within the next 4 months? Anyone want to speculate the next one? I'm guessing it will be both sides of IH 20 that interstate should have been widened to 6 lanes in each direction 20 years ago. Especially if they knew that they were not going to do #### to improve any of the big interchanges

[adventurernumber1]

Anyone know when the 75/575 toll lane project will be finished? I'm guessing June 20th? Also I'm guessing the next big toll lane project will be announced within the next 4 months? Anyone want to speculate the next one? I'm guessing it will be both sides of IH 20 that interstate should have been widened to 6 lanes in each direction 20 years ago. Especially if they knew that they were not going to do #### to improve any of the big interchanges

I was actually in Atlanta a few days ago, and I noticed and snapped a picture of a new sign that had to do with the express lanes on I-75, and ultimately I-575 as well - this was on I-285 Northeastbound right before the interchange with I-75 near the suburb of Smyrna. I may have found a way to finally upload pictures from my phone to the forum again, so I will work on that as soon as possible, so that y'all may be able to visually see it.

Also, my prediction is that the next toll lane project will be on Interstate 285. This is because of the huge, tall flyover ramps that have been constructed at the I-75/I-285 interchange, regarding the express lanes. I believe I remember reading somewhere that there were short-term or long-term plans to implement tolled express lanes on I-285 as well, as a result.