I-24 upgrades from Nashville to the Kentucky state line is up there for some of the most wanted projects:
https://clarksvillenow.com/local/interstate-24-widening-from-kentucky-state-line-to-nashville-tops-wish-list-from-local-leaders/
This is after they started expanding I-65 to 3 lanes up to the KY state line (TN 109 exit actually) from Nashville, to link the already 6 lane portion in Kentucky.
I don't head down to Nashville all that often from Southern IL, but when I do, I-24 is a slog in TN approaching Nashville from the northwest. I don't know what the traffic counts are, but by gut feeling, 6 laning is justified
KTC will have to get on board not too long after, and push 6-laning up to at least Hopkinsville/the Pennyrile Pkwy/I-169?
Should've upgraded Nashville-Chattanooga before Nashville-KY. Pretty sure the only long-distance traffic on I-24 northwest of Nashville are St Louis bound (and points beyond StL) traffic. Everyone else turns from I-24 WB to I-65 NB at Nashville.
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 16, 2022, 11:58:42 AM
Should've upgraded Nashville-Chattanooga before Nashville-KY. Pretty sure the only long-distance traffic on I-24 northwest of Nashville are St Louis bound (and points beyond StL) traffic. Everyone else turns from I-24 WB to I-65 NB at Nashville.
Some Chicagoland and Wisconsin traffic (passenger and commercial) prefers the I-24/I-57 routing over the I-65 routing. It is a little longer, but it avoids Louisville and Indianapolis.
Another option that uses I-24 NW out of Nashville is the US 41 routing up to Chicagoland, also, which breaks off at the Pennyrile Pkwy. Shorter, but US 41 isn't a full freeway in Henderson and Indiana
Quote from: ilpt4u on January 16, 2022, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 16, 2022, 11:58:42 AM
Should've upgraded Nashville-Chattanooga before Nashville-KY. Pretty sure the only long-distance traffic on I-24 northwest of Nashville are St Louis bound (and points beyond StL) traffic. Everyone else turns from I-24 WB to I-65 NB at Nashville.
Some Chicagoland and Wisconsin traffic (passenger and commercial) prefers the I-24/I-57 routing over the I-65 routing. It is a little longer, but it avoids Louisville and Indianapolis.
Another option that uses I-24 NW out of Nashville is the US 41 routing up to Chicagoland, also, which breaks off at the Pennyrile Pkwy. Shorter, but US 41 isn't a full freeway in Henderson and Indiana
Well it says it takes the same amount of time to take I-24 to US-41 to IN-63 back to US-41 than it does to take I-57 to I-24 coming from Chicago to Nashville. Both are about 22 minutes longer than taking I-65. But taking I-24 to US-41 to IN-63 and back to US-41 cuts off about 70 miles vs. taking I-57 to I-24 for the same amount of time.
Not convinced that Nashville-Chattanooga needs upgrading. There are significant traffic dropoffs on 24 at both Murphreesboro and I-59.
Looking at AADT maps, I-24 between Murfreesboro and I-59 average between 30k-40k AADT, and between I-65 and the KY border is 50k-60k. To me, it's a bit surprising that the latter have higher traffic, maybe it's because of a high number of commuter trips between Nashville and Clarksville?
For comparison, I-71 between Columbus and Cleveland is 6 laned, with an AADT between 40k-50k in rural areas.
Definitely will need to be six lanes at some point, but I-65 between Goodlettsville and the state line is more urgently needed. I'd also say the small stretch of I-65 between I-840 and SR 396 is needed before I-24.
Not to nitpick too much, but I think this thread belongs in the Southeast region. The Mid-South region covers West Tennessee only, which roughly translates to west of the Tennessee River or Area Codes 731 and 901. But trust me, I do like this discussion, because I grew up 3.5 miles from I-24 in the Cane Ridge area of Davidson County, TN.
Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2022, 12:36:53 AM
Not convinced that Nashville-Chattanooga needs upgrading. There are significant traffic dropoffs on 24 at both Murphreesboro and I-59.
I can see some upgrades in the safety and geometry spaces in a couple of areas, specifically around Monteagle back to Chattanooga.
It has been awhile since I traversed this route, but I never saw any traffic issues beyond Chattanooga and not until Murfreesboro in the run to Nashville.
Quote from: edwaleni on January 20, 2022, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2022, 12:36:53 AM
Not convinced that Nashville-Chattanooga needs upgrading. There are significant traffic dropoffs on 24 at both Murphreesboro and I-59.
I can see some upgrades in the safety and geometry spaces in a couple of areas, specifically around Monteagle back to Chattanooga.
It has been awhile since I traversed this route, but I never saw any traffic issues beyond Chattanooga and not until Murfreesboro in the run to Nashville.
East of Monteagle, between Jasper and the GA line, I have experienced issues that have caused me to detour over to US 41/64/72 and/or TN 134/GA 299. The worst stretch with geometric deficiencies that you speak of, outside the Monteagle grade, is from TN 156 to the GA line, and I think wrecks happen frequently as a result.
And of course it's absolutely ridiculous that TDOT has yet to even start on widening I-24 from the other GA state line crossing to US 27 in Chattanooga. I'm sure that once TN gets started, GA would follow suit very shortly thereafter and widen the rest of it to I-59. This should have been done at least 20 years ago!
Concerning the winding section from Nickajack Lake to east of I-59, I've always thought it was rediculous that there were not any winding road warning signs. Failure to post warning signs for hazards such as sharp curves or uphill grades with slow moving trucks is a problem on interstate highways in multiple states. Its like the DOTs have a false ides in their heads that interstate highways are hazard-free by design
Quote from: wriddle082 on January 21, 2022, 02:18:25 AM
And of course it's absolutely ridiculous that TDOT has yet to even start on widening I-24 from the other GA state line crossing to US 27 in Chattanooga. I'm sure that once TN gets started, GA would follow suit very shortly thereafter and widen the rest of it to I-59. This should have been done at least 20 years ago!
Needed 2 decades ago, yes. But two things to keep in mind here. First, Tennessee does not bond or borrow money for road work...it is strictly a pay-as-you-go state. So where would they have reallocated from to pay for I-24 widening? Skip Nashville widening? Skip building 840? Skip repaving? There's only so much to go around, and I-24 was not a high enough priority to be allocated, especially given the expense it would take to widen 24 there.
Which leads me to my second point: I-24 at the base of Lookout Mountain is literally squeezed in between the railroad and the river bank...there isn't much room for anything else. Sure, you have the median there, but it's not wide enough. To do an inside widening and be within Interstate standards would require a previously-existing median of at least 46 feet. Most of the median between Browns Ferry Rd and 27 is less than 40ft wide, dropping to as low as 26ft where 24 crosses Lookout Creek. This would require at least some outside widening, which because of the tight spacing and existing traffic would be very expensive to undertake.
Quote from: froggie on January 21, 2022, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on January 21, 2022, 02:18:25 AM
And of course it's absolutely ridiculous that TDOT has yet to even start on widening I-24 from the other GA state line crossing to US 27 in Chattanooga. I'm sure that once TN gets started, GA would follow suit very shortly thereafter and widen the rest of it to I-59. This should have been done at least 20 years ago!
Needed 2 decades ago, yes. But two things to keep in mind here. First, Tennessee does not bond or borrow money for road work...it is strictly a pay-as-you-go state. So where would they have reallocated from to pay for I-24 widening? Skip Nashville widening? Skip building 840? Skip repaving? There's only so much to go around, and I-24 was not a high enough priority to be allocated, especially given the expense it would take to widen 24 there.
Which leads me to my second point: I-24 at the base of Lookout Mountain is literally squeezed in between the railroad and the river bank...there isn't much room for anything else. Sure, you have the median there, but it's not wide enough. To do an inside widening and be within Interstate standards would require a previously-existing median of at least 46 feet. Most of the median between Browns Ferry Rd and 27 is less than 40ft wide, dropping to as low as 26ft where 24 crosses Lookout Creek. This would require at least some outside widening, which because of the tight spacing and existing traffic would be very expensive to undertake.
A reduced cross section with a 4 ft left shoulder and median barrier could be acceptable, especially in this type of environment.
South Carolina, as an example, uses this method currently on modern interstate widening projects, even where there's adequate room for a full left shoulder.
It would still require around 34 ft of median space though, assuming a 12 ft lane in each direction, 4 ft of shoulder, and 2 ft for a median barrier.
I-24 at some point does look to be needed a widening project.
looking at the AADT map for 22 seems to show there is a serious need for I-24 from clarksville to briley parkway
the highest is the portion to the north of nashville at 75k AADT
needless to say its risen since the last AADT, but it is very telling. on top of it, i know this much since i applied to be a amazon delivery driver and asked bout where we would deliver.
amazons warehouses in nashville deliver to clarksville tn and bout 90% of the middle tennessee region, they even make deliveries to fort campbell.
suffice to say I-24 widing is most likely being planned out by TDOT, just the funding to do so is lacking.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 22, 2022, 03:38:16 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 21, 2022, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on January 21, 2022, 02:18:25 AM
And of course it's absolutely ridiculous that TDOT has yet to even start on widening I-24 from the other GA state line crossing to US 27 in Chattanooga. I'm sure that once TN gets started, GA would follow suit very shortly thereafter and widen the rest of it to I-59. This should have been done at least 20 years ago!
Needed 2 decades ago, yes. But two things to keep in mind here. First, Tennessee does not bond or borrow money for road work...it is strictly a pay-as-you-go state. So where would they have reallocated from to pay for I-24 widening? Skip Nashville widening? Skip building 840? Skip repaving? There's only so much to go around, and I-24 was not a high enough priority to be allocated, especially given the expense it would take to widen 24 there.
Which leads me to my second point: I-24 at the base of Lookout Mountain is literally squeezed in between the railroad and the river bank...there isn't much room for anything else. Sure, you have the median there, but it's not wide enough. To do an inside widening and be within Interstate standards would require a previously-existing median of at least 46 feet. Most of the median between Browns Ferry Rd and 27 is less than 40ft wide, dropping to as low as 26ft where 24 crosses Lookout Creek. This would require at least some outside widening, which because of the tight spacing and existing traffic would be very expensive to undertake.
A reduced cross section with a 4 ft left shoulder and median barrier could be acceptable, especially in this type of environment.
South Carolina, as an example, uses this method currently on modern interstate widening projects, even where there's adequate room for a full left shoulder.
It would still require around 34 ft of median space though, assuming a 12 ft lane in each direction, 4 ft of shoulder, and 2 ft for a median barrier.
This was mentioned in a separate thread, but widening is to be underway next year between I-59 in Georgia and Chattanooga to 6 lanes.
Here are the cross-section / plans to the bend. Simply posting here for cross-reference.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 23, 2023, 04:11:31 PM
From those plans, here is the bend portion of the widening.
The remainder not pictured to the west is standard median widening with full left shoulders, extending into Georgia to I-59.
(https://i.ibb.co/V2f5G8x/I24-Widening1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/8gQ3PPh/I24-Widening2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/R6sBDft/I24-Widening3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/FxKCLV2/I24-Widening4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/zZS4cvP/I24-Widening5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/fpTgv4g/I24-Widening6.jpg)
I-24 west of Nashville does not need to be six-laned....yet. Between Murfreesboro and Chattanooga needed to be six-laned in the 90's.
Google Maps has added the unsigned Interstate 124 designation to the US 27 freeway in Downtown Chattanooga: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.042462,-85.3218963,2647m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu.
Truck drivers would beg to differ about 24 needing to be 6 lanes through the state of Tennessee. Especially with the vacation traffic in the summer. 24 is influential in the corridor from GA/Florida to Chicago and the Midwest. 3 lanes instead of 2 makes a big difference when there is an accident. It's why I like IH 75 being a minimum of 6 lanes through Florida and GA
Quote from: Tomahawkin on December 01, 2023, 05:15:58 PM
Truck drivers would beg to differ about 24 needing to be 6 lanes through the state of Tennessee. Especially with the vacation traffic in the summer. 24 is influential in the corridor from GA/Florida to Chicago and the Midwest. 3 lanes instead of 2 makes a big difference when there is an accident. It's why I like IH 75 being a minimum of 6 lanes through Florida and GA
EXACTLY!
That's why I say east of Nashville should have been done in the 90's and should have been done first.
West of Nashville is not as high a priority and should have been done AFTER east of Nashville.
Not to mention the NashVegas area is one of the fastest growing metros in the South. It's a hell of a lot better to be proactive instead of reactive when it comes to interstate expansion. That downtown area in Nashville needs major improvement or it will turn into the connector in downtown Atlanta.
Quote from: Tomahawkin on December 03, 2023, 11:51:37 AM
Not to mention the NashVegas area is one of the fastest growing metros in the South. It's a hell of a lot better to be proactive instead of reactive when it comes to interstate expansion. That downtown area in Nashville needs major improvement or it will turn into the connector in downtown Atlanta.
i don't see that happening, not unless they finished briley parkway to the southern end of I-24, and there is simply too much NIMBY'ism to complete briley and I-840 to the north is gonna be a headache, as you'd have to get kentucky to build a super-2, which isn't happening as they have priorities in eastern kentucky and with I-69.
unless TDOT wakes up and smells the coffee with regards to the downtown loop, you will not be seeing any work done anytime soon.
That's the problem, they won't wake up until it's 20+ years past due. That's what happened in all of Georgia
This is where need and demand meets harsh fiscal reality. ESPECIALLY in Tennessee which has been a pay-as-you-go state (i.e. they don't take out bonds like most other states do). Virtually every state (not to mention Congress) is considerably underfunding transportation. But unless you convince the public to accept higher taxes, cuts to existing programs, and/or tolls, you're not going to fix that.
Complain all you want about it being "needed 20 years ago." But that doesn't fund improvements.
I totally agree with that statement. It's why Texas and Florida can do those improvements! FDOT was smart in making all the toll roads en route to tourist destinations! I wish the other states, minus Texas to take note of that. OT outside of Texas, and Florida, the lack of road maintenance is visible especially potholes on the interstates. It's Moot but I agree little will be done to address this. I'm Ad Nauseam in saying that Chatt-Lanta needs a perimeter! Especially for truck traffic!
Does anyone see toll roads being constructed in Tennessee anytime soon? I would be very surprised if they were, just like I'd be very surprised to see toll roads constructed in my state (Wisconsin).
Tennessee is exploring the idea of "choice lanes" in urban areas which are basically toll lanes. Not sure of the timeline though.
These "choice lanes" would most likely be constructed in Memphis and Nashville, if the idea is ultimately implemented. I'm not sure if any would be built in Chattanooga or Knoxville, due to insufficient traffic demand, and I certainly don't see them being built anywhere else withing the state of Tennessee.
^ From my understanding, they're only being considered where existing HOV lanes exist. The idea is to convert them into toll lanes by simply installing toll gantries and putting up those flex posts between the lanes.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 15, 2023, 11:51:43 AM
^ From my understanding, they're only being considered where existing HOV lanes exist. The idea is to convert them into toll lanes by simply installing toll gantries and putting up those flex posts between the lanes.
If that is done initially, either as an interim measure or proof-of-concept approach, I think it would be sensible. Once they get a handle on toll pricing, speed limits, vehicle eligibility, and effects on traffic, maybe it will be time to bump things up a notch. :spin:
Is it possible TDOT could join the E-ZPass IAG with these managed lane proposals?
I would be amused if they put the wording "CHOICE LANE ENTRANCE" on the signage :sombrero:
I didn't know Tennessee was pro-choice... :awesomeface: :awesomeface:
Har Har!