Windows 11

[Scott5114]

If I formatted Apple hardware and installed Linux on it (doable), would the hardware be any better than what I'd get if I spent the same amount on a competitor's hardware? I can see no reason why it would be. So you're paying a premium for the software, which is...a crippled Unix. So what exactly is the added value?

[jakeroot]

If I formatted Apple hardware and installed Linux on it (doable), would the hardware be any better than what I'd get if I spent the same amount on a competitor's hardware? I can see no reason why it would be. So you're paying a premium for the software, which is...a crippled Unix. So what exactly is the added value?

Crippled or not, few (if any) other software/hardware combos will work as well with other Apple devices as .... other Apple devices.

While most people are buying Apple devices for the software, Apple deserves credit for their hardware. Few other computers are as well screwed together as a Macintosh (not to mention other Apple devices). With the recent introduction of the M1 and M1 Max, Apple seems very interested in stepping up their game in the 'internals' arena, an area where they have arguably overcharged for years.

[Scott5114]

If I formatted Apple hardware and installed Linux on it (doable), would the hardware be any better than what I'd get if I spent the same amount on a competitor's hardware? I can see no reason why it would be. So you're paying a premium for the software, which is...a crippled Unix. So what exactly is the added value?

Crippled or not, few (if any) other software/hardware combos will work as well with other Apple devices as .... other Apple devices.

Vendor lock-in stopped being cool in the 80s.

[hotdogPi]

Because I own my machine, not crApple.  I don't need to use their software to play MY music on MY computer.

I've had no problem with iTunes and 7 days (= 168 hours) worth of CDs of music, although I have to use an external CD drive to add new CDs on my current (2019-present) computer.

[jakeroot]

If I formatted Apple hardware and installed Linux on it (doable), would the hardware be any better than what I'd get if I spent the same amount on a competitor's hardware? I can see no reason why it would be. So you're paying a premium for the software, which is...a crippled Unix. So what exactly is the added value?

Crippled or not, few (if any) other software/hardware combos will work as well with other Apple devices as .... other Apple devices.

Vendor lock-in stopped being cool in the 80s.

I agree. I love being able to back up my Samsung phone's gallery automatically to several different services (I use OneDrive). But a lot of people seem to like Apple's services and are willing to lock into them.

[KeithE4Phx]

I've had no problem with iTunes and 7 days (= 168 hours) worth of CDs of music, although I have to use an external CD drive to add new CDs on my current (2019-present) computer.

Why in the world would I open an iTunes account just to be able to listen to my own music?  That is requiring permission from Apple to use what I own.  Microsoft doesn't even require that.

[jakeroot]

Why in the world would I open an iTunes account just to be able to listen to my own music?

You don't need an Apple ID to use iTunes. It's only required to purchase songs or listen to music via Apple Music.

Early on, I want to say that iTunes had pretty good integration with external audio devices, rendering it a helpful application for home media systems. But that advantage has long since expired.

For the record: iTunes is on the way out. It's already long discontinued on the Mac. I suspect it will be replaced within the next couple of years by something that is hopefully way better, as it's very long in the tooth.

[Scott5114]

If I can't open a file manager window to some directory and see a screen's worth of audio files there that I can open with whatever program I want, it's not worth paying for, in my opinion.

The last job I worked, it was pretty funny seeing everyone else lamenting that there was "no music" because we were out in the sticks in Slaughterville with no cell service. Of course nobody had an FM radio, either. Had I brought headphones, I could have easily listened to the music stored directly on my phone. (I chose not to offer to connect to the Bluetooth speaker because I suspect my musical taste would not have been very well-received.)

[KeithE4Phx]

You don't need an Apple ID to use iTunes. It's only required to purchase songs or listen to music via Apple Music.

When I got this Mac in 2013, an Apple ID was required, and uploading music went through iTunes.  Maybe that's no longer the case with later versions of MacOS, but I can't upgrade the OS now, anyway; it's too old.  I use it as a Linux box via VirtualBox.

[stormwatch7721]

Okay, Microsoft edge is better on windows 11 but some parts aren't working right

[SectorZ]

I've had no problem with iTunes and 7 days (= 168 hours) worth of CDs of music, although I have to use an external CD drive to add new CDs on my current (2019-present) computer.

Why in the world would I open an iTunes account just to be able to listen to my own music?  That is requiring permission from Apple to use what I own.  Microsoft doesn't even require that.

46,000 songs in iTunes on my windows 10 rig, all synced to my 512GB iPhone.

Never once made an iTunes account for it. I just hope they keep it that way, but for 20 years it's been that way.

I feel I also one of the only people that 1) has very few, if any, issues with iTunes (and I clearly use it a ton), and 2) due to that, actually like the program.

[jakeroot]

The last job I worked, it was pretty funny seeing everyone else lamenting that there was "no music" because we were out in the sticks in Slaughterville with no cell service. Of course nobody had an FM radio, either. Had I brought headphones, I could have easily listened to the music stored directly on my phone. (I chose not to offer to connect to the Bluetooth speaker because I suspect my musical taste would not have been very well-received.)

The same issue occurs on airplanes as well; unless you pay for wifi, you have no service. The trick is to simply download the music to your phone. All of my Spotify music is available offline. But then I recognize that offline audio is generally a premium feature within these streaming services.

[Scott5114]

↑ Indeed. I'd rather do the pay-for-a-file model where I can buy whatever music I want when I have the money and inclination to do so, instead of being locked into paying a recurring $X/month. Usually what happens is I make a note of any songs I've heard on the radio or whatever that I like enough to pay for, and then once I have some extra cash laying around I'll buy twenty or thirty of them all at once.

[ET21]

My 4 year old laptop can't run it, but that seems to be a known problem with this new OS. I'm probably not going to use it until I either get a new computer or 3-4 years down the line.

[jakeroot]

Update to an earlier problem:

Been using Windows 11 for a couple weeks now. Here's my more in-depth thoughts so far:
...
The big issue I've had since Tuesday evening: explorer.exe not starting correctly. I started my computer, logged in as usual, and although other programs would start, Explorer would not--correctly, at least. Even opening Task Manager and forcing "Windows Explorer" to restart wouldn't do the trick. I eventually had to use command prompt, performing this:

Code Select Expand

reg delete HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\IrisService /f && shutdown -r -t 0

...which forced a restart, after which I have been able to restart Explorer using Task Manager and get everything back.

Initial research showed that it could have been related to my drive (solid-state, for the record), but this seemed unlikely after I was eventually able to get Explorer to start. At this point, I've just gotten into the habit of sleeping my computer at night, as opposed to shutting it down, while I wait for another update of Windows that may or may not fix whatever problem is causing this. It might not even be related to Windows 11, although the timing sure seems coincidental.

Whatever this problem was, it became a serious issue in time. I suspect a lot of issues that I may have had with Windows 11 were rooted in my decision to "upgrade" rather than clean-install.

At any rate, I have totally wiped my C drive and fresh-installed Windows 10 again. I have four SATA drives (three SSDs and a very large HDD), and most of my files were stored on those drives. But given how many apps install data into the 'appdata' folder, it'll be a while before I'm back to where I was. But I'm much happier now.

[Roadsguy]

Update to an earlier problem:

Been using Windows 11 for a couple weeks now. Here's my more in-depth thoughts so far:
...
The big issue I've had since Tuesday evening: explorer.exe not starting correctly. I started my computer, logged in as usual, and although other programs would start, Explorer would not--correctly, at least. Even opening Task Manager and forcing "Windows Explorer" to restart wouldn't do the trick. I eventually had to use command prompt, performing this:

Code Select Expand

reg delete HKCU\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\IrisService /f && shutdown -r -t 0

...which forced a restart, after which I have been able to restart Explorer using Task Manager and get everything back.

Initial research showed that it could have been related to my drive (solid-state, for the record), but this seemed unlikely after I was eventually able to get Explorer to start. At this point, I've just gotten into the habit of sleeping my computer at night, as opposed to shutting it down, while I wait for another update of Windows that may or may not fix whatever problem is causing this. It might not even be related to Windows 11, although the timing sure seems coincidental.

Whatever this problem was, it became a serious issue in time. I suspect a lot of issues that I may have had with Windows 11 were rooted in my decision to "upgrade" rather than clean-install.

At any rate, I have totally wiped my C drive and fresh-installed Windows 10 again. I have four SATA drives (three SSDs and a very large HDD), and most of my files were stored on those drives. But given how many apps install data into the 'appdata' folder, it'll be a while before I'm back to where I was. But I'm much happier now.

I had similar issues last time around when I first upgraded my old laptop from Windows 7 to 10 shortly after it came out. A clean install fixed everything.

[J N Winkler]

Whatever this problem was, it became a serious issue in time. I suspect a lot of issues that I may have had with Windows 11 were rooted in my decision to "upgrade" rather than clean-install.

In-place upgrades do have a tendency to go sour, which is the reason I haven't done it in any recent decade and prevented it on my Windows 7 machine by removing the updates that were intended to facilitate the upgrade to 10.

My current machine does pass the Windows 11 test, so Windows Update now has nag language for 11.  However, I am preventing the upgrade by using the postpone-updates-35-days function to limit updating to a brief window at the end of the month when I do it manually under close supervision.

At any rate, I have totally wiped my C drive and fresh-installed Windows 10 again. I have four SATA drives (three SSDs and a very large HDD), and most of my files were stored on those drives. But given how many apps install data into the 'appdata' folder, it'll be a while before I'm back to where I was. But I'm much happier now.

Did you have a backup of AppData?  I don't maintain a full C: backup, but I do use robocopy to maintain a complete copy of C:\Users (which includes AppData folders for all user profiles) on a portable external HD.

[jakeroot]

Whatever this problem was, it became a serious issue in time. I suspect a lot of issues that I may have had with Windows 11 were rooted in my decision to "upgrade" rather than clean-install.

In-place upgrades do have a tendency to go sour, which is the reason I haven't done it in any recent decade and prevented it on my Windows 7 machine by removing the updates that were intended to facilitate the upgrade to 10.

My current machine does pass the Windows 11 test, so Windows Update now has nag language for 11.  However, I am preventing the upgrade by using the postpone-updates-35-days function to limit updating to a brief window at the end of the month when I do it manually under close supervision.

My current machine was built for me with Windows 10, so this was the first in-place major upgrade that I've ever done with it. I don't know why I thought it would go off without a hitch; overall I've had good luck with Windows, but all luck eventually runs out.

I'm not sure when I'll eventually go to Windows 11 again. I noticed that there was some other issues in terms of slow response times in certain programs. Some of the Adobe products seemed quite a bit slower on Windows 11. There was also File Explorer, which had very serious, almost-maddening lag to it.

At any rate, I have totally wiped my C drive and fresh-installed Windows 10 again. I have four SATA drives (three SSDs and a very large HDD), and most of my files were stored on those drives. But given how many apps install data into the 'appdata' folder, it'll be a while before I'm back to where I was. But I'm much happier now.

Did you have a backup of AppData?  I don't maintain a full C: backup, but I do use robocopy to maintain a complete copy of C:\Users (which includes AppData folders for all user profiles) on a portable external HD.

Indeed I do, and I'm migrating the data over as necessary and only if it doesn't cause other issues.

[vdeane]

There was also File Explorer, which had very serious, almost-maddening lag to it.

I wonder if that's related to the memory leak it had at launch.  Not sure if that's been patched yet or not.

[epzik8]

I made the upgrade two weeks ago, and it feels functionally similar to Windows 10.

[jakeroot]

There was also File Explorer, which had very serious, almost-maddening lag to it.

I wonder if that's related to the memory leak it had at launch.  Not sure if that's been patched yet or not.

I noticed it was worse when using the OneDrive folders, which, unfortunately for me, is where I store a lot of files. Back on Windows 10, everything is lightning-fast.

I might wait another month or two, then do a clean install of Windows 11.

[snowc]

I've had no problem with iTunes and 7 days (= 168 hours) worth of CDs of music, although I have to use an external CD drive to add new CDs on my current (2019-present) computer.

Why in the world would I open an iTunes account just to be able to listen to my own music?  That is requiring permission from Apple to use what I own.  Microsoft doesn't even require that.

46,000 songs in iTunes on my windows 10 rig, all synced to my 512GB iPhone.

Never once made an iTunes account for it. I just hope they keep it that way, but for 20 years it's been that way.

I feel I also one of the only people that 1) has very few, if any, issues with iTunes (and I clearly use it a ton), and 2) due to that, actually like the program.

My father listens to 60000 songs on his G7 Thinq, which is 64GB
Having to listen to them in the car when driving, however, is 

[snowc]

My 4 year old laptop can't run it, but that seems to be a known problem with this new OS. I'm probably not going to use it until I either get a new computer or 3-4 years down the line.

Same here.
My father has a 11 year old Dell Studio 1749, has NO TPM, NO UEFI, and has old CPU.
My mother has a 9 year old Lenovo IdeaPad G780, has NO TPM, UEFI, and has old CPU.
However, my computer can run windows 11. No problem! Albeit, the emojis are 

[Scott5114]

UEFI is shit.

[snowc]

UEFI is shit.

Totally agree.