Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[wriddle082]

Yeah one of these days I'll probably start a Flickr account.  Got a bunch of road photos I've saved up and need to put out there somewhere, but not start a website.

[rickmastfan67]

Will this eventually be designated Interstate 840 ?

Highly unlikely in my opinion since they didn't do the FED environmental studies to built it and only did state ones.  But you never know.

[US71]

Yeah one of these days I'll probably start a Flickr account.  Got a bunch of road photos I've saved up and need to put out there somewhere, but not start a website.

I've bee relatively happy with my Flickr account, though I have TONS of photos I haven't uploaded

[hbelkins]

Will this eventually be designated Interstate 840 ?

Highly unlikely in my opinion since they didn't do the FED environmental studies to built it and only did state ones.  But you never know.

Same was true with US 23, and it's now I-26.

[froggie]

Same was true with US 23, and it's now I-26.

Not the case.  TDOT would have had to do a federal study for US 23 because they were using Appalachian Corridor funds for it.

Whether the state used Federal funds or not or did a Federal environmental study or not is really irrelevant, though.  Whether or not a given road gets included on the Interstate system is dependent on two things:  1) was/is it built to Interstate standards?  2)  is it a logical addition to the Interstate system?  Barring Congressional legislation, FHWA determines the latter.

[NE2]

US 23 in Tennessee was not quite built to Interstate standards, if I remember correctly.

[Beltway]

US 23 in Tennessee was not quite built to Interstate standards, if I remember correctly.

It is built to Interstate standards for the mountainous terrain that it passes through, i.e. a few horizontal curves have a 50 mph design speed, most are 60 mph or more.  Lane and shoulder widths are to Interstate standards.

[hbelkins]

Same was true with US 23, and it's now I-26.

Not the case.  TDOT would have had to do a federal study for US 23 because they were using Appalachian Corridor funds for it.

Whether the state used Federal funds or not or did a Federal environmental study or not is really irrelevant, though.  Whether or not a given road gets included on the Interstate system is dependent on two things:  1) was/is it built to Interstate standards?  2)  is it a logical addition to the Interstate system?  Barring Congressional legislation, FHWA determines the latter.

I remember John Lansford P.E. getting his panties in a wad on m.t.r over the way Tennessee built its section of US 23 vs. how North Carolina did it, and him complaining about all of Tennessee's shortcuts. Seems like one of the things he complained about was the lack of the same in-depth environmental studies that were done in NC.

[Beltway]

Same was true with US 23, and it's now I-26.

Not the case.  TDOT would have had to do a federal study for US 23 because they were using Appalachian Corridor funds for it.

Whether the state used Federal funds or not or did a Federal environmental study or not is really irrelevant, though.  Whether or not a given road gets included on the Interstate system is dependent on two things:  1) was/is it built to Interstate standards?  2)  is it a logical addition to the Interstate system?  Barring Congressional legislation, FHWA determines the latter.

I remember John Lansford P.E. getting his panties in a wad on m.t.r over the way Tennessee built its section of US 23 vs. how North Carolina did it, and him complaining about all of Tennessee's shortcuts. Seems like one of the things he complained about was the lack of the same in-depth environmental studies that were done in NC.

He was and is FOS.  The TN I-26 projects in Unicoi County won the top FHWA biannual award for rural highway design excellence.

'In 1996, this highway received national recognition with an "Award of Excellence" in rural highway design from the Federal Highway Administration.  Extra efforts were taken to mitigate environmental concerns along the U.S. 23 corridor in Unicoi County which was one of the "largest and most environmentally sensitive projects ever undertaken by TDOT".'

http://www.jcmpo.org/i26.htm
http://www.jcmpo.org/award.htm

The judgment of that panel of FHWA engineers trumps his opinions by a factor of at least 10x.

His unwarranted personal attacks against the project's engineers and planners, such as claiming that it was "poorly engineered", are because of his jealousy over the fact that the N.C. section did not receive that award after it was completed years later.

[mightyace]

Same was true with US 23, and it's now I-26.

Not the case.  TDOT would have had to do a federal study for US 23 because they were using Appalachian Corridor funds for it.

Whether the state used Federal funds or not or did a Federal environmental study or not is really irrelevant, though.  Whether or not a given road gets included on the Interstate system is dependent on two things:  1) was/is it built to Interstate standards?  2)  is it a logical addition to the Interstate system?  Barring Congressional legislation, FHWA determines the latter.

The completed sections of 840 are definitely to Interstate standards.  And, to me, it would be a logical addition to the system.

____________________

I noticed a couple of days ago when I got my new phone that Google had updated the imagery in my area.

Though the imagery does not yet show the latest improvements.  Carters Creek Pike (TN-246) has been striped for a left turn lane to 840 and Johnson Hollow Road.  There are also concrete pads that abut 246 where the ramps will meet it.  I had some hopes the section from US 31 to TN 246 would open soon.  However, there are road closed signs at the exit/entrance ramps that are semi-permanently been set up on sign poles placed in the ground.

I have a large backlog of TN 840 pictures to post and hope to move ahead on them soon.

[codyg1985]

^ I am impressed with how rapidly construction has progressed with TN 840. I really need to go and check it out on a nice weekend that I am free. Don't know when that will be, though.

[RoadWarrior56]

It would not surprised me to see TN 840 designated as I-840, as a "Non-Chargable" Interstate within a couple of years after its completion.  That is just my guess, without any knowledge to back it up.

[ShawnP]

I am just wishin and hopin that a future Governor of TN would open the Northeast side of 840 back up for planning and building. Would do wonders for all the mainline Interstates in Nashville.

[mightyace]

^^^

And if he/she does, let's hope the VIP that got 840 north moved to the east side of Lebanon no longer has influence and the north loop can start at the south loop on the east side.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Hell yes to that.  I thought that the going east of Lebanon was absolutely retarded.  Unless something similar to my toll road through Cookeville and Glasgow is constructed (which would dramatically shorten the distance and relieve a lot of I-24 and I-65 traffic as well), the through Chattanooga to Louisville (or vice-versa) traffic needs to be routed away from Nashville.  The Atlanta to Chicago corridor is a major one for truck freight.

[froggie]

Given that TN 155 already exists as a northern loop around Nashville, I don't see a need for a northern TN/I-840.  That'd be a whole lot of construction cost for not much benefit.

[codyg1985]

Given that TN 155 already exists as a northern loop around Nashville, I don't see a need for a northern TN/I-840.  That'd be a whole lot of construction cost for not much benefit.

I could see a lot of truck traffic and through traffic using the loop, especially from I-65 south to I-24 east and vice-versa. It would take a bit of traffic from the Nashville interstate system. Still, TN 155 would work well if it had a direct freeway connection with I-24 east. It wouldn't take a whole lot to make that happen, either.

One thing I have noticed is that TN 155 isn't advertised very well as a bypass at all. Coming back from my trip to Evansville the Sunday after Thanksgiving I-24 was quite congested, and I-65 north from what I heard was much worse; yet I didn't see much of any traffic utilizing TN 155. There aren't any signs saying that TN 155 can take you to I-40 east/west or even to I-440 which can help you reach I-65 south or I-24 east. The VMS signs right before the interchange with TN 155 on I-24 warned of congestion and to use TN 155, but that was it.

[codyg1985]

I have some photos from my trip yesterday with Jason Illyes and mightyace of the TN 840 construction progress. I have the photos on Facebook for now and I have the album set for everyone to see, but if no one can see them let me know and I will post them elsewhere.

TN 840 crossing Boston Theta Road.



Looking west on TN 840 off of Mobley's Cut Rd toward the Natchez Trace Pkwy.



TN 840 bridge construction over the Natchez Trace Pkwy. This view looks north.



Closeup of the steel decking for the EB TN 840 bridge over the Natchez Trace Pkwy. The abutment still needs to be poured.



Looking east on TN 840. Lots of grading work is still needed through here.



It appears these bridges will be post-tensioned concrete bridges. The holes in the bridge at the end are for the cables that will tighten it up once everything is in place. You can see the footing for the abutment with the rebar sticking out of it.



Both TN 840 bridges over the Natchez Trace Pkwy.



Bridge construction for Davis Hollow Rd over TN 840.



Looking at Tn 840 west towards TN 46 off of Davis Hollow Rd.



Looking east on TN 840 at Davis Hollow Rd looking towards the Natchez Trace Pkwy. Where that silver SUV is parked is there is a temporary road for Davis Hollow Rd. It is closed to through traffic but we were able to use it just fine.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Given that TN 155 already exists as a northern loop around Nashville, I don't see a need for a northern TN/I-840.  That'd be a whole lot of construction cost for not much benefit.

I would agree with you for 2/3 of the northern arc.  There is not much population in Cheatham or Robertson county, and Montgomery County (Clarksville) is probably 10 miles beyond where the loop would be routed so I would imagine any trucks coming from Memphis wishing to access Clarksville could come up 45 Bypass, 45 East, and 79 from Jackson through Milan and Paris or 13 through Waverly, and trucks from Louisville accessing Clarksville could use 68 and 79 from Bowling Green through Russellville or use the Wendell H. Ford and Edward T. Breathitt parkways.

But there are a hell of a lot of trucks who travel from Chattanooga to Louisville (or vice-versa) that could use a better alternative to those being currently offered.  Ever since 840 was constructed between Murfreesboro and Lebanon, every year more and more trucks traveling between Chattanooga and Louisville (or vice-versa) have altered their route to use 109 through Gallatin in order to avoid going through Nashville.  I remember 20 or so years ago when I was a child that 109's traffic was very light.  As in you'd see a vehicle maybe every 5 minutes or so.   Now, it is a nightmare.  109's congestion for most of its 40 mile or so length is epic.  I have heard that daily approximately 20,000 vehicles traveling from Chattanooga to Louisville or vice-versa (40% of them trucks) use 109.  On mostly two-lane alignment.  I have not seen the newest 6 or 7 miles of alignment north of the Gallatin By-pass, but the old road from the end of the Gallatin By-pass to Portland wound like a snake through the mountains.  That was fine in 1992, but it sucks in 2011, especially with all the trucks.  Also, the Cumberland River Bridge is relatively narrow with I believe 10 foot lanes.  The Chattanooga to Louisville (or vice-versa) route needs a better alternative than going through Nashville or using 109.

[froggie]

So widen TN 109 and smooth off the corner at the south end of Gallatin...no need for the major expense of a new-terrain loop.

While I agree that there are a large number of trucks, I also think that your figure of 20K between Chattanooga and Louisville is a bit high.  Even here in DC, through traffic on 95 isn't much more than 30K.

[codyg1985]

Looking at the aerial imagery from Google Maps on the two-lane portions of TN 109 between Gallatin and I-40 shows a bit of congestion with the cars and trucks when the imagery was taken.  At least TN 109 is being widened to four lanes.

[TheStranger]

Given it's only four miles longer...are there folks who use TN 25 instead of TN 109 to reach Gallatin (on this Louisville-Chattanooga route)?

[Daniel Fiddler]

I also think that your figure of 20K between Chattanooga and Louisville is a bit high.

That's overall vehicles, not just trucks.  But that's only those that use 109 instead of going through Nashville.  If I remember correctly, I-24 between Nashville and Chattanooga has approximately 50,000 and I-65 between Nashville and Louisville has approximately 60,000 vehicles per day.  So roughly a third or so (no more than half anyway) utilize 840 and 109 to by-pass Nashville.  That is even higher than I-40 between Memphis and Nashville (a bit more than 40,000 / day) or I-75 between Chattanooga and Knoxville (a bit more than 45,000 / day).  I doubt very many (if any) rural Interstates can compare to I-75 between Atlanta and Chattanooga though, with approximately 100,000 vehicles a day!

[Daniel Fiddler]

At least TN 109 is being widened to four lanes.

It only taken them, what, 15 years since 840 was completed?  They should have anticipated this increase in traffic BEFORE 840 was constructed.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Given it's only four miles longer...are there folks who use TN 25 instead of TN 109 to reach Gallatin (on this Louisville-Chattanooga route)?

A few perhaps, but most use 109.  25 probably would be equally as fast though due to the fact 109 must go through Downtown Portland.