I'm sharing locations where there is a permanent green light that never changes.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lake+Pkwy,+Milwaukee,+WI+53207/@42.9875746,-87.8878933,3a,75y,143.58h,90.62t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGy3n0GNex7ZU51swWA1HIg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x8805179ba5c780e9:0xddaaba71ed9f295f
The first location is Wis 794 at Oklahoma Ave. A jug handle ramp was built in the southeast quadrant due to a lack of space for a full interchange. The intersection was modified so southbound traffic doesn't have to stop and traffic from Oklahoma to 794 south merges from the left.
The next one is at Wis 145 north and Fond Du Lac Ave in Milwaukee. Wis 145 becomes a freeway here and there is a protected left turn signal onto Fond Du Lac Ave. Northbound traffic has an eternal green.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/6800-6842+W+Fond+Du+Lac+Ave,+Milwaukee,+WI+53218/@43.1073926,-87.9977796,3a,75y,327h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1staGOOVwNHF1CNm7DN6F3lw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88051cc383b0361d:0xf288a6bf4f285132
National Ave northeast and I-894/I-41 south ramp in West Allis, WI. Left turns can yield at a flashing yellow or turn with the green light.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/10105+W+National+Ave,+West+Allis,+WI+53227/@42.9981072,-88.0390754,3a,75y,38.47h,86.09t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s-2ouzTulkwEh-sEltQivmQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88050f8f2ab080bb:0x3ecbc35c4cf8d64
The last one is County BB and I-41 north ramp in Appleton, WI. The traffic signals heading east look normal but never turn red. Traffic turning left can yield when there isn't a green arrow.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/3998+W+Prospect+Ave,+Appleton,+WI+54914/@44.2437988,-88.4659553,3a,75y,107.13h,73.53t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1slt-vUbZB0kWeTL6o1jOINA!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x8803b7f163e7a04b:0x4296d86092d905af
Anyone else have locations of an eternal green?
Delaware, Ohio: US 23 northbound at S Sandusky St
Columbus, Ohio: Fifth Ave westbound at western Leonard Ave intersection; left turns from Leonard to Fifth are separated from the eternal green flow by pylons.
I know of two in the Twin Cities.
Valley View Road at MN 62 in Edina - this is a half-diamond interchange, eastbound exit/westbound entrance to the freeway. Northbound thru traffic on Valley View has a permanent green at the ramp to westbound 62 unless the pedestrian button is pressed.
MN 280 at Broadway Ave in Roseville - Traffic headed east on Broadway can only turn right onto southbound 280. Northbound thru traffic on 280 has a permanent green. I believe the modification to right-turn only for Broadway traffic onto southbound 280 was made after I-35W reopened in 2009. This is a truer example compared to the previous one, since pedestrians are not allowed to cross here.
Here's a permanent right-turn green arrow signal (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7781033,-117.8406364,3a,17.2y,284.4h,92.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sggj-YaSMs93JT3rkF-Y7OA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) where US 30 turns from west along Broadway St to north along 10th St in Baker City OR. This intersection's also one of several in Oregon where you can see a stop sign with another sign that reads "Right turn permitted without stopping" posted below it.
Another one (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3739427,-81.4256738,3a,75y,351.21h,88.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEQJ36mUoKRndmEq7cRbRxg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) when traveling northbound on John Young Pkwy at FL 417 in Hunters Creek.
I swear there was another one at a mall entrance somewhere but I can't find it.
Troy MI. Westbound 14 Mile Rd just west of I-75. There's a double left turn lane to the SB entrance ramp with full signals. But the 2 through lanes have an eternal green arrow.
Westbound Ecorse Road at I-275 in Van Buren Township MI has double right turn lanes with eternal greens.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.249203,-83.4362956,3a,75y,270.34h,75.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGM4OOLyVDDDm4gLh_tz-5A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
(BTW, the pavement has been replaced since this street view was made -- Wonder of Wonders in Michigan!)
FL A1A at FL 404 in South Patrick Shores, FL has a right lane continuous green where the arrow never goes out.
NB John Young Parkway at the FL 417 SB ramp in Hunters Creek, FL has two of them as its only a left turn signal light with the SB lanes. Both have 24/7 greens there for straight through
SB FL 535 at Osceola Parkway has a left turn signal at the EB ramp. No need for the SB lanes to stop ever, but only added two permanent arrows just recently. Originally only the turning lanes has a red signal and the straight through had nothing, until Osceola County added a brand new mast arm there. Only side mounts were used for the left turn signals which were removed for the now present mast arm planted on the right side of the roadway going SB spanning over all the SB lanes.
I brought this up before but EB US 90 at I-310 in LA, has a full signal that never turns red. Only the the WB lanes does for the permissive left turn allowed going from EB US 90 to the NB interstate. IMO permanent arrows should be used there going EB while the permissive turn should get a flashing red arrow allowing motorists to turn left when the WB lanes have a full green and the green arrow for when the traffic is stopped going WB.
Brice Rd. southbound @ I-70, Columbus, OH:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9313346,-82.8309782,3a,75y,184.75h,94.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbtCz7yrf-CPmDEaB8TU4Lw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
Baltimore-Reynoldsburg Rd. southbound @ I-70, Reynoldsburg, OH:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9322084,-82.7892209,3a,75y,172.57h,93.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHUkdORG8tNIm3gFsDH3CWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
N. Fairfield Rd. northbound at I-675, Beavercreek, OH:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7772396,-84.052543,3a,75y,12.17h,93.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy-xum6P72qn8IU4w_-FSwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
US 42 southbound at I-275, Sharonville, OH:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sharonville,+OH/@39.2889307,-84.3954458,3a,75y,192.51h,92.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYWeaCOoSQ78bDoepMnFGhg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x8840519d6dd91233:0xf42b814177910313!6m1!1e1
Permanent right turn light (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0612433,-80.9569035,3a,75y,228.77h,83.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-AZwLNQUubVvcvbQ4D7V8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), located at the southbound exit ramp at Gold Hill Road, near Tega Cay, South Carolina.
And this one (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0662094,-80.84503,3a,75y,8.7h,90.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAIrtpkbD9AAFc_JZJT54Vg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) use to exist till the end of 2014, the two regular signals were always on green with only the left turning lane changing. Gone now thanks to a fly-over, this setup existed a good decade.
Permanent green right turn arrow for the far right lane on US 1 south that leads to the I-95/128 entrance ramp at the 'jughandle' in Peabody, MA. It's a holdover from the days before I-95 between Danvers and Lynnfield was completed, and I-95 traffic had to use a short section of US 1.
287 EB exit for Hutchinson River Parkway, left lane (to Hutch northbound) is always green.
I'm surprised I wasn't beaten to the punch on this one (Western Ave WB to Northway):
https://goo.gl/maps/UfJmWGqfkUq
Actually, I also like that intersection from this angle. We really do not want you to enter!
https://goo.gl/maps/X7U27UHsArQ2
The right green arrow here in Marple Twp, PA where PA 320 splits off of Springfield Rd is permanently green as that lane splits off and doesn't conflict with any other movements in the intersection.
We have a bunch of them here in Brevard County FL along US1, and the one roadman65 mentioned above along A1A by Patrick AFB. They can use them along parts of US1 because in places the road is right along the lagoon without a sidewalk on that side so they don't need crosswalks.
Typical style around here is to give the left lane a standard set of lights and give the right lane or two a green arrow:
US1 at Port Malabar Blvd in Palm Bay (https://www.google.com/maps/place/4657-4699+Dixie+Hwy+NE,+Palm+Bay,+FL+32905/@28.024113,-80.5740987,3a,75y,339h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1syPmWiLhM-ZRW55JEc_AQqw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88de13a7094cb617:0x1c483802ac9f822d)
US1 at Cherry Lane in Melbourne (https://www.google.com/maps/place/675-689+S+Harbor+City+Blvd,+Melbourne,+FL+32901/@28.0996594,-80.6128165,3a,75y,344.96h,88.77t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sgh3vQ7XOTqQZQr4aR3I1Yg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88de11c0d3ea2dfd:0x2cb3b319f3ef4d4d)
Quote from: realjd on March 25, 2016, 07:06:39 PM
We have a bunch of them here in Brevard County FL along US1, and the one roadman65 mentioned above along A1A by Patrick AFB. They can use them along parts of US1 because in places the road is right along the lagoon without a sidewalk on that side so they don't need crosswalks.
Typical style around here is to give the left lane a standard set of lights and give the right lane or two a green arrow:
US1 at Port Malabar Blvd in Palm Bay (https://www.google.com/maps/place/4657-4699+Dixie+Hwy+NE,+Palm+Bay,+FL+32905/@28.024113,-80.5740987,3a,75y,339h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1syPmWiLhM-ZRW55JEc_AQqw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88de13a7094cb617:0x1c483802ac9f822d)
US1 at Cherry Lane in Melbourne (https://www.google.com/maps/place/675-689+S+Harbor+City+Blvd,+Melbourne,+FL+32901/@28.0996594,-80.6128165,3a,75y,344.96h,88.77t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sgh3vQ7XOTqQZQr4aR3I1Yg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88de11c0d3ea2dfd:0x2cb3b319f3ef4d4d)
There used to be quite a few continuous green right lanes around Jacksonville and the rest of Florida when the cross street only went to one side, especially on busy roads. Most have been changed to standard traffic lights. From what I read it was for safety; pedestrian and drivers. People would switch lanes quickly to not get caught at a red light. Also the left or fast lane was stopped, not expected.
When I was going to the University of North Florida in the early 1990s the entrance off St Johns Bluff Rd had one. Now it SJB Rd in that area is The i295 East beltway
A decent number of them in Chicagoland:
* SB Quentin Road at Euclid Avenue near Palatine: Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0870514,-88.0631428,3a,75y,191.22h,89.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1zLIR9XD55T63MzykpXOdw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* SB Meacham Road at Schaumburg Road in Schaumburg: Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.028924,-88.0457177,3a,75y,210.7h,87.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUN81YnPI9nOMoLBeV42Aww!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DUN81YnPI9nOMoLBeV42Aww%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D183.05418%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* The Martingale Road intersection with Schaumburg Road in Schaumburg has two: One for SB to WB, and one for EB to SB. SB Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0256398,-88.0318435,3a,75y,172.65h,68.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgxtFAx9y1lOCQh_kYfQHgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)EB Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0251847,-88.0322559,3a,75y,84.94h,82.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siZ952f4eZMTT_17MgILDxg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* WB IL 58 to NB McConnor Parkway in Schaumburg: Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0508701,-88.0304293,3a,75y,299.72h,83.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9V-c0WjoR-puxIBzACS50g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* I believe SB I-355 to WB US 20/Lake Street has one, but it's not show on Streetview.
* EB Fabyian Parkway to EB IL 38 recently had one added
* I believe there is at least one, maybe two in McHenry County leading onto WB/SB Rakow Road.
theres one on NY 106-107 in Hicksville at Bethpage Road, and on NY 110 in Melvile.
Ive noticed sometimes they just don't bother posting anything, just the turn arrow lights. Seen that in South Nashua on Spit Brook Road.
Very popular in seagull intersections (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_intersection), like this one in Everett, Washington:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Seagull_intersection_CGTL_on_Broadway_in_Everett%2C_Washington_%28flickr18779519629%29.jpg/1024px-Seagull_intersection_CGTL_on_Broadway_in_Everett%2C_Washington_%28flickr18779519629%29.jpg)
(Broadway & 40th Street (https://www.google.com/maps/place/47%C2%B057'53.5%22N+122%C2%B012'03.5%22W/@47.9644938,-122.200876,3a,75y,349h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0WTxJIdYjPzz7BgAoIrasA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D0WTxJIdYjPzz7BgAoIrasA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D392%26h%3D106%26yaw%3D349.94659%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0))
Wow, all the way to post #20 before anybody brought up this (http://www.funnysigns.net/light-never-turns-green/).
Quote from: empirestate on March 26, 2016, 12:36:46 AM
Wow, all the way to post #20 before anybody brought up this (http://www.funnysigns.net/light-never-turns-green/).
Perhaps because we're discussing eternal
green lights...:hmmm:
Quote from: Revive 755 on March 25, 2016, 11:31:34 PM
A decent number of them in Chicagoland:
* SB Quentin Road at Euclid Avenue near Palatine: Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0870514,-88.0631428,3a,75y,191.22h,89.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1zLIR9XD55T63MzykpXOdw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* SB Meacham Road at Schaumburg Road in Schaumburg: Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.028924,-88.0457177,3a,75y,210.7h,87.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUN81YnPI9nOMoLBeV42Aww!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DUN81YnPI9nOMoLBeV42Aww%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D183.05418%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* The Martingale Road intersection with Schaumburg Road in Schaumburg has two: One for SB to WB, and one for EB to SB. SB Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0256398,-88.0318435,3a,75y,172.65h,68.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgxtFAx9y1lOCQh_kYfQHgw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)EB Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0251847,-88.0322559,3a,75y,84.94h,82.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siZ952f4eZMTT_17MgILDxg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* WB IL 58 to NB McConnor Parkway in Schaumburg: Streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0508701,-88.0304293,3a,75y,299.72h,83.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9V-c0WjoR-puxIBzACS50g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
* I believe SB I-355 to WB US 20/Lake Street has one, but it's not show on Streetview.
* EB Fabyian Parkway to EB IL 38 recently had one added
* I believe there is at least one, maybe two in McHenry County leading onto WB/SB Rakow Road.
The one I bolded really brought back a memory. My doctor's office was in that white 2 story building back in the 80's!
You also covered all the one's that I can remember (I lived off of Martingale in the late 80's). I haven't seen an eternal green (that I am aware of, anyway) since I left Schaumburg in 1991.
Quote from: roadfro on March 26, 2016, 03:39:57 AM
Quote from: empirestate on March 26, 2016, 12:36:46 AM
Wow, all the way to post #20 before anybody brought up this (http://www.funnysigns.net/light-never-turns-green/).
Perhaps because we're discussing eternal green lights...:hmmm:
I have not known that to stop people from changing the subject in other threads, and almost immediately to boot.
Eternal green right turn arrows at NY 104 at Ridgeway Ave. in Rochester.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1943579,-77.6274675,3a,75y,268.65h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saGOVrKvlhXxZ-liYO0ud8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en
Quote from: empirestate on March 26, 2016, 12:36:46 AM
Wow, all the way to post #20 before anybody brought up this (http://www.funnysigns.net/light-never-turns-green/).
When I first saw this thread I was about to post that, which is exactly the opposite:
Quote from: NE2 on February 02, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-ec.buzzfed.com%2Fstatic%2Fimagebuzz%2Fweb05%2F2011%2F8%2F31%2F11%2Fthis-light-never-turns-green-1368-1314806212-30.jpg&hash=1b3c45a150e08812a922f68caba1c8fe4bd9b5d8)
End thread.
AFAIK it now turns green.
Jericho Turnpike (NY 25) westbound at East Deer Park Road (Suffolk CR 66) in Deer Park, NY. There's literally nothing for the green arrow for vehicles going straight to change to.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8361562,-73.3351109,3a,75y,231.01h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxehV2ktNzNGoSP9F9V9grg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
This intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/VmwfQ2pYPow) on US 15 at PA 304 in Winfield used to have an upward facing arrow outline over the green light until about 2010, but for some reason, it was removed.
On the other hand, this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/PcdFabD5W3o) at US 220 and PA 287 near Jersey Shore has always (to my recollection) had a standard green ball despite the fact that the through lanes never go red.
CR 111 east of the NY 27 interchange, Suffolk County NY (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8431387,-72.7217757,3a,15y,112.77h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSDSLbp-dIKKLLdsYWKrVgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
These pedestrian signals (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6561962,-122.3122659,3a,75y,0.95h,78.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHXv8Mv27odBEIdGIT9tRLw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) are always on walk.
Here's (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9927632,-123.8860548,3a,15y,105.94h,94.07t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUxlsbUYJ65N4K2GKAUkQEw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DUxlsbUYJ65N4K2GKAUkQEw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D263.19022%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) another example at a non-signalized intersection, in Hoquiam.
The Ashland, KY/OH bridge across the Ohio River has an interesting pseudo-interchange. WB traffic on US52 doesn't have to stop at the intersection, and EB traffic doesn't have to stop because it goes under the bridge. This permanent green arrow is for the WB traffic
https://goo.gl/maps/v6iP69YmroF2
Another example is NB IL50 where it splits off the Governor's Highway (Old US54) at a marginal angle to the left. https://goo.gl/maps/oyGfTUfshjt
Quote from: Bruce on March 26, 2016, 12:31:53 AM
Very popular in seagull intersections (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_intersection), like this one in Everett, Washington:
The South Sound has quite a few...
31 Ave SW @ S Meridian in Puyallup: https://goo.gl/oJZNON
S 38 St @ I-5 in Tacoma: https://goo.gl/uLN3eS
S Sprague Ave @ WA-16 in Tacoma: https://goo.gl/Huqavh
S Orchard St @ WA-16 in Tacoma: https://goo.gl/HzwdZe
W Valley Hwy @ WA-167 in Sumner: https://goo.gl/XtTzWC
US-30 Westbound at the Northwest edge of Portland, OR
https://goo.gl/maps/FLWTb7fXQd72
Sidenote; since this streetview picture was taken, the sign on the gantry has been destroyed by a tanker truck catching on fire!
DE 2, Kirkwood Hwy, in front of a shopping center. Even though there's a road coming in from the right, they simply have a stop sign.
https://goo.gl/maps/4vXzkmNCkST2
On CT 10 northbound in Plainville, CT. Only not green is when it's blinking yellow
https://goo.gl/maps/5oSFVfdMCqF2
Indianapolis has a variation of this at the ramp from westbound Southport Road to northbound Interstate 65.
https://goo.gl/maps/croFzJGZJmr
The light was added when the ramp from northbound 65 to Southport became a signalized intersection but in any case it has always been a ramp from one road onto the freeway, no need to stop traffic at all, especially with the concrete median separating the road from the ramp. What's funny is that when this ramp was closed a few times last year due to construction, the light remained green (even with road closed barriers in front.)
A location that *should* have an eternal green light is here: https://goo.gl/maps/wz65x9wfLf62 Even though the ramp is barrier separated from the other lanes and has no stop line or bar, occasionally you'll get the car that'll stop because the other lights are red.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 28, 2016, 08:37:40 AM
A location that *should* have an eternal green light is here: https://goo.gl/maps/wz65x9wfLf62 Even though the ramp is barrier separated from the other lanes and has no stop line or bar, occasionally you'll get the car that'll stop because the other lights are red.
I totally agree with this- there's a mast arm right there on the right anyway! Just make it a dual mast arm and put a one-section head on there, and you're done!
Two I know of in Illinois are at Lake Street heading west at the I-294 NB entrance. There's one at Rockland Road heading east at the SB I-94 Entrance.
I've seen more around Illinois but I don't remember their locations.
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2016, 11:58:51 AM
I'm surprised I wasn't beaten to the punch on this one (Western Ave WB to Northway):
https://goo.gl/maps/UfJmWGqfkUq
Actually, I also like that intersection from this angle. We really do not want you to enter!
https://goo.gl/maps/X7U27UHsArQ2
I always wondered about this intersection seeing as I used to have family nearby in Voorheesville. Are you sure those lights
never go red? There's signals facing the shopping center off to the right plus a crosswalk going across the ramp, so I figure it would go red at SOME point.
As for other eternal green lights, here's another one along PA 291 (Bartram Avenue) at the I-95 southbound onramp near the Philadelphia Airport.
https://goo.gl/maps/VwZnaJji2V62
And here are some eternal green arrow beacons along US 13 northbound at the DE 1 northbound onramp near St. Georges, DE.
https://goo.gl/maps/j4rwm9mspWU2
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 28, 2016, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 28, 2016, 08:37:40 AM
A location that *should* have an eternal green light is here: https://goo.gl/maps/wz65x9wfLf62 Even though the ramp is barrier separated from the other lanes and has no stop line or bar, occasionally you'll get the car that'll stop because the other lights are red.
I totally agree with this- there's a mast arm right there on the right anyway! Just make it a dual mast arm and put a one-section head on there, and you're done!
I think some bollards or a railing might do the trick as well.
Quote from: Ian on March 28, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2016, 11:58:51 AM
I'm surprised I wasn't beaten to the punch on this one (Western Ave WB to Northway):
https://goo.gl/maps/UfJmWGqfkUq
Actually, I also like that intersection from this angle. We really do not want you to enter!
https://goo.gl/maps/X7U27UHsArQ2
I always wondered about this intersection seeing as I used to have family nearby in Voorheesville. Are you sure those lights never go red? There's signals facing the shopping center off to the right plus a crosswalk going across the ramp, so I figure it would go red at SOME point.
Go figure. So much for that. I've driven through there a thousand times and they're never red. :D
https://goo.gl/maps/LtqpVM6H8CP2
And then there's the eternal red for right turns (only the left arrow has yellow and green phases):
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9370855,-74.9699092,3a,15y,58.18h,90.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stEyEX3EJyJNhXz9RTA3Jcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1
How common are those?
In Ann Arbor, WB Washtenaw Ave at Stadium Blvd.
Here's a few in Alabama:
Huntsville:
Meridian Street & US 72:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7608131,-86.5754394,3a,66.8y,24.02h,92.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ssyu6j0A4iNDARwDTjGycLQ!2e0
Univeristy Drive (US 72) & Research Park Boulevard (AL 255):
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.741476,-86.6683364,3a,66.8y,104.02h,93.81t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4ABgjglFc7UXapiYHvXVSg!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7426177,-86.6717162,3a,66.8y,263.19h,86.87t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1setnTcXda6DZjL-y2_owfOg!2e0
Williams Ave, Echoles Ave, Adams Street, and McClung Ave (the green arrow on the bottom here is always on):
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7295885,-86.580288,3a,55.4y,85.07h,87.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWeUDbBd6IO8oBtGEf3aGAA!2e0
Decatur:
Moulton Street & Gordan Drive:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6040178,-86.9952082,3a,55.4y,87.14h,89.6t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sYuUSAb_70uLq1vJqO8KtZw!2e0
Florence:
Dr. Hicks Boulevard and Tennessee Street (both here are US 72):
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.8037976,-87.6674391,3a,23.7y,264.63h,91.62t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s3aWiuqVani4bWZahPN6Hpg!2e0
Vestavia Hills has many along US 280:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4212411,-86.6966885,3a,55.4y,286.83h,91.48t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGijEvQqoDZfjQGRegESeHw!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4373993,-86.722018,3a,55.4y,299.4h,92.25t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXq1hgR2lnoFuzpfsC-CsiQ!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4408904,-86.7278182,3a,55.4y,305.26h,88.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sThksoOMeqQhKQUZxXUrVUg!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4597837,-86.7537971,3a,55.4y,108.68h,90.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s93poVQAXaGABWhO_oxkm2g!2e0
The intersection that caused ALDOT to adopt the FYA signal:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4647996,-86.7572651,3a,66.8y,166.74h,89.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s-xIvVWuNS-yWD1JalmqYUw!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4710468,-86.7617121,3a,66.8y,101.01h,93.42t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1stRdR7fJzhLhQoCAGU3-peg!2e0
Quote from: bzakharin on March 28, 2016, 04:03:38 PM
And then there's the eternal red for right turns (only the left arrow has yellow and green phases):
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9370855,-74.9699092,3a,15y,58.18h,90.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stEyEX3EJyJNhXz9RTA3Jcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1
How common are those?
They used to be more common but have generally been phased out over the years. I never knew NJ had one of these lights.
I remember one (it's probably still there) on westbound Valley Blvd. at the north end of I-710 in Los Angeles.
Some Illinois examples of the perpetual right turn arrow.
https://goo.gl/maps/88Bn2Bh4UZq
https://goo.gl/maps/cyFU1F1fZdm
These two below are viewed from the side, because the signals face a stretch of road that isn't updated on GSV:
https://goo.gl/maps/FKZvCXyt4vr
https://goo.gl/maps/9XPJTzms2Sn
CT 9 NB at "Exit 15" in Middletown....
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.56317,-72.6477774,3a,75y,324.32h,78.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEFusx7SzqaTHQJDjeQrMxw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Thru traffic never gets anything but a green light here, as there is no NB entrance at this location.
For the "this light never turns green" comment, CT has several traffic lights at entrances to fire stations. The signals will flash yellow for thru traffic. In the event of an emergency requiring fire/ambulance, the signals will turn red, stopping thru traffic. After the emergency equipment has entered the roadway and cleared, the signal would resume to flashing yellow. Here's an example of one on CT 17 in Durham - there was another one a mile up the road as well:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4679903,-72.6795473,3a,78.2y,338.54h,91.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYO3xoBwpS3yb4bnlGDKFWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Hard to tell, but the bottom balls on each signal flash yellow. And for some reason, the state/town/whoever hasn't replaced the dead yellow light... it's been that way for more than a couple years.
Quote
For the "this light never turns green" comment, CT has several traffic lights at entrances to fire stations. The signals will flash yellow for thru traffic. In the event of an emergency requiring fire/ambulance, the signals will turn red, stopping thru traffic. After the emergency equipment has entered the roadway and cleared, the signal would resume to flashing yellow. Here's an example of one on CT 17 in Durham - there was another one a mile up the road as well:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4679903,-72.6795473,3a,78.2y,338.54h,91.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYO3xoBwpS3yb4bnlGDKFWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Hard to tell, but the bottom balls on each signal flash yellow. And for some reason, the state/town/whoever hasn't replaced the dead yellow light... it's been that way for more than a couple years.
Ashwaubenon, WI has signals that flash yellow also in front of their fire station unless emergency crews need to leave
https://www.google.com/maps/place/2101-2155+Holmgren+Way,+Ashwaubenon,+WI+54304/@44.4919327,-88.0575087,3a,66.8y,19.64h,85.92t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svCTXcy7hyarAhOYvwBkt_A!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x8802fbac3fec388b:0x7bca236b69ec76b6
Another right-turn arrow into a shopping center (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3506291,-77.6685542,3a,50y,185.59h,84.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5baEp4SvEMxjXRDHej4x_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), this one in (North) Hornell, NY.
The signal near my house always displays a circular green...
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8305149,-72.5549712,3a,27.3y,346.72h,87.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0dh3gPWnFCMZN-JgorJViA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8305149,-72.5549712,3a,27.3y,346.72h,87.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0dh3gPWnFCMZN-JgorJViA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664)
...or a right arrow. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8305951,-72.5550027,3a,37.5y,339.86h,87.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWcsEn-egQTGdR02x44AYtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8305951,-72.5550027,3a,37.5y,339.86h,87.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWcsEn-egQTGdR02x44AYtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Van Buren, Arkansas (https://goo.gl/maps/7gRcCqtygX72) has a straight ahead arrow that's always green.
There aren't many examples in New York, but I remember seeing a bunch when I lived in Ohio. The Columbus area has several.
Quote from: ILRoad55 on March 28, 2016, 11:05:56 AM
Two I know of in Illinois are at Lake Street heading west at the I-294 NB entrance. There's one at Rockland Road heading east at the SB I-94 Entrance.
I've seen more around Illinois but I don't remember their locations.
It's nowhere close to Chicago, but there's one in Danville, IL on WB US 136 just before it turns onto IL 1.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froads.mattmajewski.net%2Fimages%2F136150dk.jpg&hash=5279800ba36cb63feddfe4a0ceb913275a2d40a0)
There is an eternal green light in Branson, Missouri on the ramp from eastbound Shepherd of the Hills Expy. (MO 248, becomes Branson Landing Blvd.) to go northbound on U.S. 65.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6569131,-93.2211963,3a,15y,97.34h,92.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1safTj2OEPFVSdVNKd1qwLrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6569131,-93.2211963,3a,15y,97.34h,92.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1safTj2OEPFVSdVNKd1qwLrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
https://goo.gl/maps/3QMkV2doo752
There's a permanent green arrow at Hartford Avenue and Winchester Avenue in Atlantic City. Winchester Avenue is two-way when turning right here; the others circulate away from this point.
The GSV shot shows a red light and the green arrow simultaneously, which indicates that you can't drive straight through on Hartford.
I know several off the top of my head in the city of New York.
Platinum Avenue and Staten Island Mall entrace/exit
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Platinum+Ave,+Staten+Island,+NY/@40.5789376,-74.1685603,3a,75y,90.81h,90.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sA2nBYR2vicUEV6kfTDkCJg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DA2nBYR2vicUEV6kfTDkCJg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D29.687233%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c24b83f06e8b9d:0x2570b69984e02040
The signalized intersection was first built in the early-2000s, and it did not originally have a protected left turn movement. It was added by the NYCDOT sometime after 2007.
Four Corners Rd. and Todt Hill Rd.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5933398,-74.1105689,3a,75y,197.6h,84.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSu4zRqidEKm35VE1vSd-vQ!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656
The cross street pedestrian signals are actually actuated, so a person is required to push a nearby button to active the "WALK" phase. Four Corners Rd. and Todt Hill Rd. is one of a handful of intersections on Staten Island that have operable pedestrian push buttons in spite of the fact that many throughout the city of New York have been disconnected from service by the DOT over 30 years ago.
And then there was this oddball at Hillside Av. and 164th St. in Queens, N.Y....
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7087834,-73.7991819,3a,30y,58.59h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr5GPwKpyRwMl86ymWf8RkA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
The other cluster on the right has a standard three-section (R/A/G) head in use.
Fast forward to present day, and the new setup at the corner looks like this...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7086517,-73.7992953,3a,15y,41.58h,92.39t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVtv-AujqgSGKH6iIY4Yg4Q!2e0!5s20150901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
There's several places in RI that have "eternal greens", except they always put a standard light in, it just never changes.
This one on RI-113 east at the entrance to Post Rd:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7112565,-71.4469081,3a,37.5y,100.3h,77.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHG0yOusl2COVC6hMQeV-NQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
This one on US-1 north, not even a mile from the previous example:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.723155,-71.4406325,3a,75y,7.54h,76.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saxOBgttpis6jZK9RBHez3Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
This one is at RI-401 at RI-4 north:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.662883,-71.4883573,3a,75y,85.6h,75.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_s8RMz87cE147NRYyJurqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 04, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
This one is at RI-401 at RI-4 north:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.662883,-71.4883573,3a,75y,85.6h,75.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_s8RMz87cE147NRYyJurqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I like how the traffic signals still have their original incandescent amber and red sections intact.
Decatur, Illinois has a BUNCH of these. I was going to state this in the first place, but didn't have many examples on hand to back it up. Now I have found the examples I drove past years ago!
https://goo.gl/maps/2xoJLM47qnR2
https://goo.gl/maps/fX9hyKbZuEx
https://goo.gl/maps/h5BxrTXGmrn
East-central Illinois seems to like these in general... https://goo.gl/maps/nq2dwakk1gL2 (see also the example in Danville, already posted)
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on April 04, 2016, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 04, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
This one is at RI-401 at RI-4 north:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.662883,-71.4883573,3a,75y,85.6h,75.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_s8RMz87cE147NRYyJurqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I like how the traffic signals still have their original incandescent amber and red sections intact.
Well, there's no reason to upgrade those sections to LED since they're never lit.
The intersection of Granger Road (SR-17) and Warner Road in Valley View (Cleveland) OH:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4140583,-81.6374622,3a,75y,80.25h,73.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smeEWUfwjdRsL7WOJDPneYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
Warner Road traffic must turn right at Granger Road.
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 07, 2016, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on April 04, 2016, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 04, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
This one is at RI-401 at RI-4 north:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.662883,-71.4883573,3a,75y,85.6h,75.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_s8RMz87cE147NRYyJurqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I like how the traffic signals still have their original incandescent amber and red sections intact.
Well, there's no reason to upgrade those sections to LED since they're never lit.
Then why aren't the signals there just single heads?
In Columbia, SC on Harbison Blvd right off of I-26, there is an eternal green light at the intersection with Saturn Parkway. This eternal green light only exists for traffic heading southwest or away from I-26. Traffic heading northeast or towards I-26 has a regular traffic light that sometimes turns red to allow cars turning right from Saturn Parkway (Walmart, Best Buy, a hotel) to merge. Cars on Saturn Parkway cannot turn left onto Harbison Blvd., thus allowing for the eternal green light there. If that eternal green light didn't exist, traffic would back up horribly on Harbison Blvd., which is already pretty congested.
Quote from: cl94 on April 08, 2016, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 07, 2016, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on April 04, 2016, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 04, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
This one is at RI-401 at RI-4 north:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.662883,-71.4883573,3a,75y,85.6h,75.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_s8RMz87cE147NRYyJurqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I like how the traffic signals still have their original incandescent amber and red sections intact.
Well, there's no reason to upgrade those sections to LED since they're never lit.
Then why aren't the signals there just single heads?
Probably because should there be a problem with the signal mechanism, the lights could go into flash mode and either go to an all-flash red or the thru-only lights would flash yellow.
Quote from: thenetwork on April 08, 2016, 11:34:30 AM
Quote from: cl94 on April 08, 2016, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 07, 2016, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on April 04, 2016, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 04, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
This one is at RI-401 at RI-4 north:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.662883,-71.4883573,3a,75y,85.6h,75.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_s8RMz87cE147NRYyJurqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I like how the traffic signals still have their original incandescent amber and red sections intact.
Well, there's no reason to upgrade those sections to LED since they're never lit.
Then why aren't the signals there just single heads?
Probably because should there be a problem with the signal mechanism, the lights could go into flash mode and either go to an all-flash red or the thru-only lights would flash yellow.
That doesn't make sense. If the signal were a single head, it should just stay lit as green upon malfunction, while the other lights go into flash mode. In fact, if it were wired right, it couldn't malfunction short of complete power loss or burned out bulb.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 28, 2016, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 28, 2016, 08:37:40 AM
A location that *should* have an eternal green light is here: https://goo.gl/maps/wz65x9wfLf62 Even though the ramp is barrier separated from the other lanes and has no stop line or bar, occasionally you'll get the car that'll stop because the other lights are red.
I totally agree with this- there's a mast arm right there on the right anyway! Just make it a dual mast arm and put a one-section head on there, and you're done!
I wonder if there is a sign that can be placed instead of a one-section head that can also get the message across. It would be nice if we can save the electricity from adding more signal faces.
It seems like the preferred treatment around Perth, Australia is to leave the straight-through lanes unsignalised with no stop bar, using arrows for all aspects of the turn signals:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.9220986,115.8263867,3a,75y,69.7h,75.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3bZi9opFs8z10-wAflEaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.9220986,115.8263867,3a,75y,69.7h,75.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3bZi9opFs8z10-wAflEaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
But there is one intersection I know of that has a continuous green light:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.8678271,115.8013963,3a,46.1y,98.59h,84.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siuMazkUxfa5uv0NW-drIAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.8678271,115.8013963,3a,46.1y,98.59h,84.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siuMazkUxfa5uv0NW-drIAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
This one is particularly strange because the middle lane is shared, so you have the potential for through traffic to get 'caught' behind cars waiting to turn.
Quote from: mrsman on April 10, 2016, 07:48:42 AM
I wonder if there is a sign that can be placed instead of a one-section head that can also get the message across. It would be nice if we can save the electricity from adding more signal faces.
Something like this, perhaps?
(https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/PublishingImages/MR-GT-24.RCN-D13%5E23110177.PNG)
Quote from: bzakharin on April 08, 2016, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 08, 2016, 11:34:30 AM
Quote from: cl94 on April 08, 2016, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 07, 2016, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on April 04, 2016, 07:54:21 PM
Quote from: doogie1303 on April 04, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
This one is at RI-401 at RI-4 north:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.662883,-71.4883573,3a,75y,85.6h,75.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_s8RMz87cE147NRYyJurqg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I like how the traffic signals still have their original incandescent amber and red sections intact.
Well, there's no reason to upgrade those sections to LED since they're never lit.
Then why aren't the signals there just single heads?
Probably because should there be a problem with the signal mechanism, the lights could go into flash mode and either go to an all-flash red or the thru-only lights would flash yellow.
That doesn't make sense. If the signal were a single head, it should just stay lit as green upon malfunction, while the other lights go into flash mode. In fact, if it were wired right, it couldn't malfunction short of complete power loss or burned out bulb.
One aspect to consider might be the color blind, the RYG would denote green to them, even though the R and Y are never lit. But then again, the vast majority of people who drive through an intersection don't think that much about it. If they see green, they go, and they don't worry about why this signal never goes red or yellow. In fact, even for the non color blind, showing R and Y is more familiar to the general public and they wouldn't have to think twice about it.
Quote from: Jet380 on April 10, 2016, 09:43:21 AM
It seems like the preferred treatment around Perth, Australia is to leave the straight-through lanes unsignalised with no stop bar, using arrows for all aspects of the turn signals:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.9220986,115.8263867,3a,75y,69.7h,75.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3bZi9opFs8z10-wAflEaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.9220986,115.8263867,3a,75y,69.7h,75.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC3bZi9opFs8z10-wAflEaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
This is the preferred treatment where the left turns (or right turns in the case of Australia) are channelized. The left turners will see their traffic signal and act appropriately, and through traffic will just go through and not worry about it. The straight through drivers will not be confused by the left turn signals because of the separation.
Quote from: Jet380 on April 10, 2016, 09:43:21 AM
But there is one intersection I know of that has a continuous green light:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.8678271,115.8013963,3a,46.1y,98.59h,84.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siuMazkUxfa5uv0NW-drIAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.8678271,115.8013963,3a,46.1y,98.59h,84.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siuMazkUxfa5uv0NW-drIAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
This one is particularly strange because the middle lane is shared, so you have the potential for through traffic to get 'caught' behind cars waiting to turn.
The shared middle lane will actually require having separate indications for straight through traffic, to avoid confusion. But you are right that this is a rare configuration. The only benefit for having a middle lane split would be if turning is the busier movement during some parts of the day and going straight is the busier movement at other times. This situation is usually handled better by split-phasing signals or near-split phased signals.
Quote from: Jet380 on April 10, 2016, 09:43:21 AM
Quote from: mrsman on April 10, 2016, 07:48:42 AM
I wonder if there is a sign that can be placed instead of a one-section head that can also get the message across. It would be nice if we can save the electricity from adding more signal faces.
Something like this, perhaps?
(https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/PublishingImages/MR-GT-24.RCN-D13%5E23110177.PNG)
I think the first preference should be using channelizing islands and avoiding having a signal arm over the through lanes whenever possible. (Example: US 395 & SR 209 near Minden, NV (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0271343,-119.7799579,3a,75y,193.89h,79.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSZDf47LoO0g4C-QUJ6J_qQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656))
If there isn't sufficient space for signals in the median, the sign method could work. I'd simply have the legend say "DO NOT STOP (down arrow)".
Almost... Poplar Tent Road at the quarry, west of I-85. Only turns red when trucks are coming out of the quarry... :P
Quote from: roadfro on April 10, 2016, 12:16:12 PM
Quote from: Jet380 on April 10, 2016, 09:43:21 AM
Quote from: mrsman on April 10, 2016, 07:48:42 AM
I wonder if there is a sign that can be placed instead of a one-section head that can also get the message across. It would be nice if we can save the electricity from adding more signal faces.
Something like this, perhaps?
(https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/PublishingImages/MR-GT-24.RCN-D13%5E23110177.PNG)
I think the first preference should be using channelizing islands and avoiding having a signal arm over the through lanes whenever possible. (Example: US 395 & SR 209 near Minden, NV (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0271343,-119.7799579,3a,75y,193.89h,79.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSZDf47LoO0g4C-QUJ6J_qQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656))
If there isn't sufficient space for signals in the median, the sign method could work. I'd simply have the legend say "DO NOT STOP (down arrow)".
Here's an example of a sign currently in use:
https://goo.gl/maps/6aPhHHXhP4s
But you can't convey the message with just a sign alone. If there are signals for any traffic, all approaching drivers are going to be looking for their indication. The continuous green is the only way to keep the driver from panicking. Really, it probably doesn't waste that much energy, considering that these continuous green arrows can just be bulbs that stand alone from any signal operation system. In other words, they burn continuously, so they'll only use as much energy as a bulb in an overhead lamp that's always on.
Also, a sign will be harder to see at night.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 11, 2016, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: roadfro on April 10, 2016, 12:16:12 PM
Quote from: Jet380 on April 10, 2016, 09:43:21 AM
Quote from: mrsman on April 10, 2016, 07:48:42 AM
I wonder if there is a sign that can be placed instead of a one-section head that can also get the message across. It would be nice if we can save the electricity from adding more signal faces.
Something like this, perhaps?
(https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/PublishingImages/MR-GT-24.RCN-D13%5E23110177.PNG)
I think the first preference should be using channelizing islands and avoiding having a signal arm over the through lanes whenever possible. (Example: US 395 & SR 209 near Minden, NV (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0271343,-119.7799579,3a,75y,193.89h,79.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSZDf47LoO0g4C-QUJ6J_qQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656))
If there isn't sufficient space for signals in the median, the sign method could work. I'd simply have the legend say "DO NOT STOP (down arrow)".
Here's an example of a sign currently in use:
https://goo.gl/maps/6aPhHHXhP4s
But you can't convey the message with just a sign alone. If there are signals for any traffic, all approaching drivers are going to be looking for their indication. The continuous green is the only way to keep the driver from panicking. Really, it probably doesn't waste that much energy, considering that these continuous green arrows can just be bulbs that stand alone from any signal operation system. In other words, they burn continuously, so they'll only use as much energy as a bulb in an overhead lamp that's always on.
Also, a sign will be harder to see at night.
They probably use even less money now with the LED indications.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on April 11, 2016, 11:41:18 AM
They probably use even less money now with the LED indications.
Absolutely! I was going to mention that too but I forgot. ~wavelength~
Here's a thought, I know that in the USA you have to treat any dark signals as an all-way stop. Does this apply to an 'eternal' green light that has burned out or lost power? If so it might be an argument to use a sign over a lamp.
Quote from: Jet380 on April 12, 2016, 01:28:02 AM
Here's a thought, I know that in the USA you have to treat any dark signals as an all-way stop. Does this apply to an 'eternal' green light that has burned out or lost power? If so it might be an argument to use a sign over a lamp.
Personally, that's an argument for a wide, raised median with clear separation from the adjoining turn lane. Drivers should be able to logically infer which signals belong to which movements. A turn arrow for an adjoining turn lane clearly doesn't belong to the through lanes. Yes, some drivers will look for a through signal, but upon noticing A) the hard median between said signal and their lane, and B) the lack of a through signal altogether, will more than likely just continue on with little fanfare.
In conclusion, proper channelization, on its own, should be able to dictate which lanes need not stop. The intersection posted by Roadfro up-thread is an example of a properly-built seagull intersection.
Quote from: Jet380 on April 12, 2016, 01:28:02 AM
Here's a thought, I know that in the USA you have to treat any dark signals as an all-way stop. Does this apply to an 'eternal' green light that has burned out or lost power? If so it might be an argument to use a sign over a lamp.
It depends on the situation, and who uses the intersection. If it's mostly local traffic, after a while motorists don't even 'see' the eternal green light, and would go thru it regardless if it's lit or not. For the most part, eternal green lights don't have intersecting traffic where one would need to stop...or a stop line for traffic to stop at anyway...so the light shouldn't be much of an issue.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2016, 08:22:50 AM
Quote from: Jet380 on April 12, 2016, 01:28:02 AM
Here's a thought, I know that in the USA you have to treat any dark signals as an all-way stop. Does this apply to an 'eternal' green light that has burned out or lost power? If so it might be an argument to use a sign over a lamp.
It depends on the situation, and who uses the intersection. If it's mostly local traffic, after a while motorists don't even 'see' the eternal green light, and would go thru it regardless if it's lit or not. For the most part, eternal green lights don't have intersecting traffic where one would need to stop...or a stop line for traffic to stop at anyway...so the light shouldn't be much of an issue.
Well, that's the whole idea, isn't it? It shouldn't be an issue at all, but if one were suddenly obliged to stop at a signal that has otherwise been green for its entire existence, would there suddenly be an issue where there should't be one?
On the other hand, is that actually the law in all states? Do some states word it as following the signal's most-restrictive indication, which in the case of an all-green signal would still be green?
Quote from: empirestate on April 12, 2016, 11:04:32 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2016, 08:22:50 AM
Quote from: Jet380 on April 12, 2016, 01:28:02 AM
Here's a thought, I know that in the USA you have to treat any dark signals as an all-way stop. Does this apply to an 'eternal' green light that has burned out or lost power? If so it might be an argument to use a sign over a lamp.
It depends on the situation, and who uses the intersection. If it's mostly local traffic, after a while motorists don't even 'see' the eternal green light, and would go thru it regardless if it's lit or not. For the most part, eternal green lights don't have intersecting traffic where one would need to stop...or a stop line for traffic to stop at anyway...so the light shouldn't be much of an issue.
Well, that's the whole idea, isn't it? It shouldn't be an issue at all, but if one were suddenly obliged to stop at a signal that has otherwise been green for its entire existence, would there suddenly be an issue where there should't be one?
On the other hand, is that actually the law in all states? Do some states word it as following the signal's most-restrictive indication, which in the case of an all-green signal would still be green?
A regular light's most restrictive indication is "stop and wait for green". I don't think that's what you are supposed to do at a dark signal.
Anyway, what NJ says is "When, by reason of a power failure or other malfunction, a traffic control signal at an intersection is not illuminated, the driver of a vehicle or street car shall, with respect to that intersection, observe the requirement for a stop intersection", which is interesting because it apparently leaves unspecified what you do when a signal is not illuminated for some other reason. Doesn't this make the law unenforceable: "I didn't know it was a malfunction. I thought this signal was just not operational yet"?
Quote from: bzakharin on April 12, 2016, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: empirestate on April 12, 2016, 11:04:32 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2016, 08:22:50 AM
Quote from: Jet380 on April 12, 2016, 01:28:02 AM
Here's a thought, I know that in the USA you have to treat any dark signals as an all-way stop. Does this apply to an 'eternal' green light that has burned out or lost power? If so it might be an argument to use a sign over a lamp.
It depends on the situation, and who uses the intersection. If it's mostly local traffic, after a while motorists don't even 'see' the eternal green light, and would go thru it regardless if it's lit or not. For the most part, eternal green lights don't have intersecting traffic where one would need to stop...or a stop line for traffic to stop at anyway...so the light shouldn't be much of an issue.
Well, that's the whole idea, isn't it? It shouldn't be an issue at all, but if one were suddenly obliged to stop at a signal that has otherwise been green for its entire existence, would there suddenly be an issue where there should't be one?
On the other hand, is that actually the law in all states? Do some states word it as following the signal's most-restrictive indication, which in the case of an all-green signal would still be green?
A regular light's most restrictive indication is "stop and wait for green". I don't think that's what you are supposed to do at a dark signal.
Anyway, what NJ says is "When, by reason of a power failure or other malfunction, a traffic control signal at an intersection is not illuminated, the driver of a vehicle or street car shall, with respect to that intersection, observe the requirement for a stop intersection", which is interesting because it apparently leaves unspecified what you do when a signal is not illuminated for some other reason. Doesn't this make the law unenforceable: "I didn't know it was a malfunction. I thought this signal was just not operational yet"?
"other malfunction" would include a burned out bulb.
That said, it's a reason why each direction of travel and each turn lane should have at least 2 signal heads. If one bulb is burned out, or the traffic light pole is knocked over, there's a 2nd, redundant traffic light (and many times, a 3rd & 4th signal) to provide you guidance. "I thought this signal was just not operational yet" isn't much of a defense, as most signals under construction are covered in bags, have Road Construction signage nearby, etc. And even in the absence of all that, if you're approaching a signal that doesn't appear to be lit, slow down and use caution!
Yes, I know, but the letter of the law can be construed to require the motorist to know the reason the light is not operational (power/malfunction vs everything else) which is usually not the case (or cannot be proven anyway) before a penalty can be applied.
Quote from: empirestate on April 12, 2016, 11:04:32 AM
Well, that's the whole idea, isn't it? It shouldn't be an issue at all, but if one were suddenly obliged to stop at a signal that has otherwise been green for its entire existence, would there suddenly be an issue where there should't be one?
On the other hand, is that actually the law in all states? Do some states word it as following the signal's most-restrictive indication, which in the case of an all-green signal would still be green?
If that was the rule in some place, you could argue that an unfamiliar motorist wouldn't know what colour the light is supposed to be (it's dark after all!), so for all they know it might be a flashing red beacon.
Quote from: bzakharin on April 12, 2016, 11:42:26 AM
Anyway, what NJ says is "When, by reason of a power failure or other malfunction, a traffic control signal at an intersection is not illuminated, the driver of a vehicle or street car shall, with respect to that intersection, observe the requirement for a stop intersection", which is interesting because it apparently leaves unspecified what you do when a signal is not illuminated for some other reason. Doesn't this make the law unenforceable: "I didn't know it was a malfunction. I thought this signal was just not operational yet"?
I think 'at an intersection' is the important phrase here. Since the lanes covered by an 'eternal green' light are not crossing any other traffic by design, they probably do not meet the definition as being part of the intersection. Of couse what happens in practice might be something else :D
Perhaps the law includes 'by way of a power failure or other malfunction' might be to stop drivers exploiting cases where the light is clearly not blacked out / broken. For example someone might be at fault when they were turning left at a FYA and say 'Oh well the light was dark for half a second so I treated the intersection as a stop sign' or some other nonsense (not that I think that would fly in any case).
I should probably stop armchair lawyering, given I don't even hold a driver's license in any US state!!!
Quote from: Katavia on April 11, 2016, 08:20:00 AM
Almost... Poplar Tent Road at the quarry, west of I-85. Only turns red when trucks are coming out of the quarry... :P
Similar situation in many factories. Light is only operational for side traffic at shift change times. If it's really a long time, it's probably recommended that the signal operate in flash mode at times when side traffic is not operational.
Quote from: Jet380 on April 12, 2016, 08:03:10 PM
Well, that's the whole idea, isn't it? It shouldn't be an issue at all, but if one were suddenly obliged to stop at a signal that has oFor example someone might be at fault when they were turning left at a FYA and say 'Oh well the light was dark for half a second so I treated the intersection as a stop sign' or some other nonsense (not that I think that would fly in any case).
Point taken...although that excuse wouldn't fly in NJ since we don't have any FYAs here. I doubt most cops would even have a clue what they are!!
Found these three eternal green arrow beacons at the entrance to a shopping plaza in Grand Rapids, MI. Two of them are thru arrows, and the other is a right arrow.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9119977,-85.5412336,3a,33.8y,174.75h,94.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjzbk3Pbty25YIGFFmH8abQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Quote from: CJResotko on November 03, 2023, 11:58:42 AM
Found these three eternal green arrow beacons at the entrance to a shopping plaza in Grand Rapids, MI. Two of them are thru arrows, and the other is a right arrow.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9119977,-85.5412336,3a,33.8y,174.75h,94.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjzbk3Pbty25YIGFFmH8abQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
The one on the left should also have a left arrow as left turns are allowed from that lane.
One in Evansville, IN (Eastbound Lloyd Expressway IN-66). Westbound may get a red light for left turning traffic, but eastbound has no one crossing traffic (at least legally) so the light stays green on and on and on.
https://earth.google.com/web/search/East+Lloyd+Expressway+%26+South+Burkhardt+Road,+Evansville,+IN/@37.97656085,-87.48060222,120.66753387a,0d,60y,86.83078641h,83.76909278t,0r/data=CqcBGn0SdwolMHg4ODZlMmI2OTQwMWNjMTViOjB4MTAwNTBlODYwNDBjNTVjNhkeTfVk_vxCQCEyPPazWN5VwCo8RWFzdCBMbG95ZCBFeHByZXNzd2F5ICYgU291dGggQnVya2hhcmR0IFJvYWQsIEV2YW5zdmlsbGUsIElOGAEgASImCiQJoaLPZxLJR0ARaN7YQUjAR0AZgKIvigi7VsAhgFU9rt6-VsAiGgoWS0JaU3dBLVRxV0hheXRBZjgxUGxydxAC
Quote from: Big John on November 03, 2023, 12:00:21 PM
Quote from: CJResotko on November 03, 2023, 11:58:42 AM
Found these three eternal green arrow beacons at the entrance to a shopping plaza in Grand Rapids, MI. Two of them are thru arrows, and the other is a right arrow.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9119977,-85.5412336,3a,33.8y,174.75h,94.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjzbk3Pbty25YIGFFmH8abQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
The one on the left should also have a left arrow as left turns are allowed from that lane.
These lights are eternally green and entirely unnecessary, especially when everything else at the "intersection" is stop controlled. Just post "do not stop" signs on the approach and be done with it.
Quote from: roadfro on November 04, 2023, 01:19:28 PM
Just post "do not stop" signs on the approach and be done with it.
I'd never advocate for such a sign. I can all too easily imagine someone, having hit another vehicle or pedestrian or whatever, using the "do not stop" sign in his defense.
I have a non MUTCD sign of "KEEP MOVING"
Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2023, 01:59:17 PM
Quote from: roadfro on November 04, 2023, 01:19:28 PM
Just post "do not stop" signs on the approach and be done with it.
I'd never advocate for such a sign. I can all too easily imagine someone, having hit another vehicle or pedestrian or whatever, using the "do not stop" sign in his defense.
I wouldn't think that, but whatever...
Perhaps it could be something different, such as "keep moving" or "this lane does not stop", per a Reno, NV example entering Meadowood Mall (https://maps.app.goo.gl/pcufbqhmtZHXseJp7) (but not the erroneous FYG version at left). Or even no sign at all. But the main point is that evergreen signals are a waste here.
"Keep Moving" is pretty common in Georgia, mostly at freeway off-ramps with a free right that gets its own lane.
Just remove the sign altogether. I can think of an infinite number of examples of this exact type of setup with no signage at all. Maybe they work, maybe they don't, but I don't see anything unique about the Michigan example that screams "needs supplemental signage".
What I don't get is the stop sign for the opposing direction. I get having traffic entering mall not have a stop or yield condition, so traffic doesn't backup onto the arterial, but traffic leaving the mall doesn't really have the same issue. They probably did it so traffic turning left (towards the ALDI) can constantly keep going, but I doubt either direction has so many cars that it would really be worth the current setup.
Here's one on US 275 EB at the on-ramp to I-80 EB in Omaha, NE: https://maps.app.goo.gl/n4TLte2QtZahGyJo9
I know of several in Massachusetts that have eternal green lights.
There are a few typical installations of eternal green lights around MA like these examples: Fully Protected (Canton) (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2061793,-71.1194337,3a,41.8y,350.32h,91.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srkmmO3Qrril6pgNqtxs8dQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), FYA (Shrewsbury) (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2815481,-71.6706835,3a,66.6y,205.38h,91.03t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1saHeV8SXMEiGg0T_7ndCZXw!2e0!5s20220701T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DaHeV8SXMEiGg0T_7ndCZXw%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D233.93%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), and 5-section (Doghouse) (Billerica)* (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5600012,-71.2693371,3a,80.3y,347.31h,80.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw30vR7V2s8AVA0D0K95xrg!2e0!5s20210901T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)...
...but then you have strange examples like this one on the Revere Beach Pkwy (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.40384,-71.0078928,3a,42.8y,216.4h,95.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR4dlMWfzleMky3dFPJ0_tA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) where a fully protected left turn signal and a single section thru green is combined into one, four section signal. There used to be another one farther west (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4026699,-71.050135,3a,21.7y,85.02h,90.11t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAMoXlCHloBJtiAxK6uECHw!2e0!5s20191101T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) but that has been replaced with normal fully protected left turn signals.
There's also this one in Milton (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2608647,-71.0426987,3a,49y,146.83h,81.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szAs2KonhVA9EEqHjA40HMg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) where SB Granite Ave splits - circular red on the top and a green right turn arrow.
* The Billerica example used to feature a 3 section signal with circular green, yellow arrow and green arrow (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcReI6_p3OS7nGP1nN7gNvS8_9tF0vzjyDCAEQ&usqp=CAU) before it was replaced with a typical 5-section doghouse.
They're not very common in New Hampshire and Maine - Nashua (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7079583,-71.4520562,3a,75y,265.67h,84.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szmcv--iDyL6GxlzEgEoNWQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dzmcv--iDyL6GxlzEgEoNWQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D232.25087%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and Dover (opposing direction) (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1291326,-70.8408449,3a,31.2y,24.1h,91.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRs3rBGySijY4t2w8cTHdMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in NH I can think of, and only one example in South Portland (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6365192,-70.2586594,3a,75y,122.01h,80.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfXl4NjC_p5Z_CBoQ_Tgb_w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfXl4NjC_p5Z_CBoQ_Tgb_w%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D20.736471%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) for Maine.