Defunct restaurant chains and retailers

[hbelkins]

My brother had a meeting in Pittsburgh a few years ago. Since he lives smack dab in the middle of the "Golden Triangle," he has his choice of routes. I think he went up 64-79, but came back 70-71 just to stop at Cabela's on the way home.

Me, I've never been to that Cabela's, but I think I have stopped at the Sheetz they built in that area.

[roadman65]

I remember someone I knew used to refer to Sheetz at Shitz.  I remember seeing them in Altoona, PA so I assume they were in the western PA market until I heard a girl originally from Winchester, VA say that she had them there.  So I guess it is an Appalachian thing or was.

[briantroutman]

^ Sheetz is alive and well with over 500 locations and is #55 on Forbes' America's Largest Private Companies list.

[SP Cook]

So I guess it is an Appalachian thing or was.

Not quite.  Chain covers NE Ohio, most all of PA except the eastern edge, MD avoiding the Baltimore to Washington corridor, WV, VA avoiding the Tidewater, and the northern part of NC staying out of the mountains and the shore (furtherst west is Hickory, furthest east is Greenville, furtherst south is Statesville).  Chain is continuing to grow, now that they have moved into OH, I expect they will move into SE OH. Probably go further south in NC as well.   Don't know if they want to go much west or south of that.  They seem to avoid being right in big cities.

[roadman65]

^ Sheetz is alive and well with over 500 locations and is #55 on Forbes' America's Largest Private Companies list.

I thought someone said they were around as it came up in a thread about Wawa as a few says they blow away Wawa which is mainly NJ, DE, MD, Northern VA, SE PA,  and now Central Florida, Tampa Bay, and SW FL in the Sunshine State.

[briantroutman]

I think it would require a great deal of blind allegiance for anyone to claim that the made-to-order food operation at either Sheetz or Wawa "blows away"  the other. In my opinion, they both make sometimes mediocre, sometimes decent food...depending on the store and who's working behind the counter when you walk in. Perhaps the only broad conclusion I draw is that Sheetz's ingredient option list is slightly larger and available fairly reliably, whereas Wawa's ingredients are perhaps a bit fresher and of slightly higher quality, though locations tend to run out of them.

At least in terms of these chains' home state of Pennsylvania, I think there's a great deal of irrelevant ancillary imagery that's associated when someone self identifies with either chain. Declaring a love for Wawa over Sheetz is more a matter of Iggles vs. Stillers, blue state vs. Trumpland, riding SEPTA vs. rolling coal, etc.

So I guess it is an Appalachian thing or was.

Not quite.

Correct, Sheetz isn't quite an Appalachian thing, but as a quick and dirty way to contrast its footprint with Wawa's, it's not terribly incorrect. Similarly, there a bit of a correlation (though admittedly far from 100%) between Sheetz vs. Wawa locations and red vs. blue voting areas, respectively (coincident with the colors used on the map below).

[hbelkins]

So I guess it is an Appalachian thing or was.

Not quite.  Chain covers NE Ohio, most all of PA except the eastern edge, MD avoiding the Baltimore to Washington corridor, WV, VA avoiding the Tidewater, and the northern part of NC staying out of the mountains and the shore (furtherst west is Hickory, furthest east is Greenville, furtherst south is Statesville).  Chain is continuing to grow, now that they have moved into OH, I expect they will move into SE OH. Probably go further south in NC as well.   Don't know if they want to go much west or south of that.  They seem to avoid being right in big cities.

My introduction to Sheetz came on Christmas Day 1990. My dad, brother and I were traveling from Atlantic City to DC, and could not find anything open to get lunch. We stumbled upon a Sheetz near either Catonsville or Caton Avenue (I'm not sure which) just off I-95 south of Baltimore, and we were able to eat. Their MTO options were much more limited back then. I ended up eating a meatball sub.

At a stop at the Milton Sheetz a couple of years ago, one of the employees told me they were looking into expanding into Kentucky. Since they're already within five miles of the state line (West Huntington) it shouldn't be too much of a problem to expand west on I-64 and also along US 23. There's been a Sheetz at Cambridge, Ohio, for years. With them looking to put several locations in Parkersburg, I can foresee them also putting in one in Marietta.

I think it would require a great deal of blind allegiance for anyone to claim that the made-to-order food operation at either Sheetz or Wawa "blows away"  the other. In my opinion, they both make sometimes mediocre, sometimes decent food...depending on the store and who's working behind the counter when you walk in. Perhaps the only broad conclusion I draw is that Sheetz's ingredient option list is slightly larger and available fairly reliably, whereas Wawa's ingredients are perhaps a bit fresher and of slightly higher quality, though locations tend to run out of them.

For me, it's the menu variety that tips the scale in Sheetz' favor. (Plus the fact that they're much closer to me than any Wawa.) Both have subs (so does Subway but I rarely eat there) and both have hot dogs. When I went to the last Hampton Roads meet a few years ago, my motel was just around the corner from a Wawa. I went over there to get something to eat and felt unfulfilled because they don't have Sheetz' menu variety.

[roadman65]

I see that Sheetz, via their webpage, changed their look from the 1980's.  I also see that they are headquartered in Altoona, where I saw their stores, and is named after its founder Bob Sheetz and run by his kin to this day.

Also read on wikipedia that they name their items with a Sh ending in z so a muffin is Shmuffinz to be original.

Have to try them next time I am in their markets.  I do not know who said that bad name of theirs, it could have been someone here or someone else but their website indicates they are as good as Wawa, Quick Trip, and most likely better than Casey's Country Store in the Midwest.

[jeffandnicole]

Both have subs (so does Subway but I rarely eat there) and both have hot dogs. When I went to the last Hampton Roads meet a few years ago, my motel was just around the corner from a Wawa. I went over there to get something to eat and felt unfulfilled because they don't have Sheetz' menu variety.

Let's make one thing absolutely clear: Wawa has hoagies. Not subs!  (And for many in the Philly area where there's a hoagie shop on every corner, many would never consider Wawa's hoagies to be any good either)

Wawa does have less variety than Sheetz, and honestly, I'm thankful for that.  From my experiences, it takes more time to order at Sheetz and to have the food prepared.  Most items at Wawa are ready just after you pay, unless the store is crowded.  I couldn't see Wawa offering items like burgers or something; they would simply not go over well in many of their markets. Wawa has attempted pizzas which were underwhelming at best.  They maintain cheesesteaks on their menu as well, although, again, not good.  Their hoagies, breakfast sandwiches, hot entrée bowls, etc, are pretty good though and make up a large portion of their deli sales.

The customer aspect at Wawa seems to have greatly gone downhill.  If you're a regular, they get to know you.  But if you're not, some of their employees are a bit on the surly side.  And they have gotten away from freshly sliced meats and cheeses and deli salads, and now have everything pre-sliced prior to arriving at the store.  They have a large variety of Wawa branded drinks, with people swearing by their Iced Teas.

As you can see on that map Brian posted, there is a very fine line where Wawa ends and Sheetz begins.  As you go further south, they mix together a bit more, with the Richmond area the only real area they strongly compete against each other.

[Mr_Northside]

Correct, Sheetz isn't quite an Appalachian thing, but as a quick and dirty way to contrast its footprint with Wawa's, it's not terribly incorrect.

Also, for some of us that are older, it's easier to think that, since the non Appalachian Sheetz's are somewhat newer (relative to the companies history).

[hbelkins]

Let's make one thing absolutely clear: Wawa has hoagies. Not subs!

I've had the same sandwich from both Sheetz and Wawa, and cannot tell much difference between Sheetz' subs and Wawa's subs/hoagies. It's all just a matter of semantics. 

[briantroutman]

I see that Sheetz, via their webpage, changed their look from the 1980's.  I also see that they are headquartered in Altoona, where I saw their stores, and is named after its founder Bob Sheetz and run by his kin to this day.

A couple of years ago, I was in my hometown's Sheetz and noticed a case stocked with several copies of a thin, almost pamphlet-like book on Sheetz's history. I started thumbing through the pages and was interested in buying a copy, and then I noticed the selling price was something like $25–a little steep, I thought, for a lightweight puff piece. I passed.

But one thing I recall is that the Z was an affectation. The family name is really Sheets, and Bob Sheetz's father, Jerry Sheets, thought that the Z would be his ticket to the big time:

[ColossalBlocks]

Anyone remember Ames? I was in kindergarten/1st grade when in started to fall in the pit of dead retailers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkWvNs0sPLA

And Blockbuster. Oh the fond memories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Jc3_rnLYI

[Tonytone]

I think it would require a great deal of blind allegiance for anyone to claim that the made-to-order food operation at either Sheetz or Wawa "blows away"  the other. In my opinion, they both make sometimes mediocre, sometimes decent food...depending on the store and who's working behind the counter when you walk in. Perhaps the only broad conclusion I draw is that Sheetz's ingredient option list is slightly larger and available fairly reliably, whereas Wawa's ingredients are perhaps a bit fresher and of slightly higher quality, though locations tend to run out of them.

At least in terms of these chains' home state of Pennsylvania, I think there's a great deal of irrelevant ancillary imagery that's associated when someone self identifies with either chain. Declaring a love for Wawa over Sheetz is more a matter of Iggles vs. Stillers, blue state vs. Trumpland, riding SEPTA vs. rolling coal, etc.

So I guess it is an Appalachian thing or was.

Not quite.

Correct, Sheetz isn't quite an Appalachian thing, but as a quick and dirty way to contrast its footprint with Wawa's, it's not terribly incorrect. Similarly, there a bit of a correlation (though admittedly far from 100%) between Sheetz vs. Wawa locations and red vs. blue voting areas, respectively (coincident with the colors used on the map below).

This graphical really puts it into perspective, Its amazing to see Wawa's every half a mile. Just like how Walmart started in the beginning now they are working to beat amazon in shipping.(It's not always about size it about how long you can last.  .)

Sheetz is spread about more sporadically and I wonder why they don't have any in the Delaware, Philly area. Maybe Royal farms is the reason but then again over here Wawa is treated like a god.

[GenExpwy]

Is there a reason Sheetz seems to be avoiding Upstate NY, especially the Southern Tier? It's a lot closer to Altoona than NC or KY.

Anyone remember Ames? I was in kindergarten/1st grade when in started to fall in the pit of dead retailers.

I remember they had badly outdated checkouts that did not use UPC barcodes. Instead, they used old-timey price stickers, the kind that had Ames's own internal accounting numbers printed at top and bottom, that had to be keyed in by hand.

Dansville, NY store, sometime in the mid-1990s. There was just one checkout going, and I was in a growing line for 5 or 10 minutes because the Ames price sticker had fallen off of some lady's plastic flowers, and someone had to run and find out those codes, although the UPC (put on by the manufacturer) was still there. All I could think was how, in that day and age, a store that size could come to a complete halt because the store's sticker was missing from an item that still had its UPC.

[jeffandnicole]

Is there a reason Sheetz seems to be avoiding Upstate NY, especially the Southern Tier? It’s a lot closer to Altoona than NC or KY.

It appears Sheetz is avoiding NY all together. 

Probably simply because it's a state it has decided to avoid...at least for now.  Like Wawa, Sheetz probably decided to expand towards the south, rather than the north.

[hbelkins]

Never knew the "Z" story. I went to college with a guy whose last name was Sheets. He had a reputation for being a player, and his hobby was trolling for freshmen girls every fall semester.

I would expect Sheetz is avoiding New York because of the regulatory and taxation nightmare that state is.

I remember Ames but don't recall ever visiting one.

[briantroutman]

Regardless of the specificities of New York's particular regulatory environment, I think it's safe to say that the price of entry going into a new state is high enough that a company either needs to go "all in"  or not at all. And a business like Sheetz faces a complex web of different agencies that tax or regulate various aspects of its business: motor vehicle fuels, fuel pump certification, tobacco sales, alcohol sales (in some areas), foodservice safety inspections, wages and unemployment compensation, etc.

Also–is there a dominant "super convenience store"  chain in western New York? There's a cluster of Dandy Mini Markets centered roughly on Elmira, but I don't recall seeing them further west, and I don't believe any of them looked that "super" .



A defunct convenience store chain (for all intents in purposes) in the heart of Sheetz country is Uni-Mart. Based in State College, it was once the dominant convenience store in many central PA towns. Most of the locations were small neighborhood markets, and like 7-Eleven, many lacked fuel pumps. By the late '90s, many of the locations were a decade or two old and easily outclassed by the large new Sheetz stores infiltrating Uni-Mart's territory.

Uni-Mart rolled out a new logo around this time and even launched at least one very Sheetz-like new prototype location in Lewisburg, but it was too little too late. Most locations were still cramped, tired relics of the '70s and '80s–most still carrying the old logo.

I read that the company was taken private in 2004 and liquidated following a bankruptcy in 2008. Apparently the trademark is in new hands now, and I've noticed it popping up at dumpy old gas stations whose convenience stores might otherwise be unbranded.

Anyone remember Ames?

My only experience with Ames came from the company's purchase of Hills discount stores.

In my early childhood, my hometown had four discount stores: Kmart, two Nichols stores, and Hills. I don't recall much about Nichols as we rarely went there and both locations were shuttered by the early '90s.

But I definitely remember Hills. Even as child with low expectations, I recall thinking that our Hills store was something of a dive and dump. The store was given a modest renovation in the mid '90s, but Hills was merged into Ames soon after.

Ames didn't seem to invest much in the property; they just slapped their sign in place of Hills'. The clientele was decidedly elderly (as I recall, they even had a senior discount day), and the store had the kind of "smell of death"  that Kmart does today. The word spread quickly in my hometown: Ames wasn't worth shopping. The store's parking lot always seemed conspicuously empty along busy US 15, and the entire company went out of business soon after.

[SP Cook]

I think it's safe to say that the price of entry going into a new state is high enough that a company either needs to go "all in"  or not at all. And a business like Sheetz faces a complex web of different agencies that tax or regulate various aspects of its business: motor vehicle fuels, fuel pump certification, tobacco sales, alcohol sales (in some areas), foodservice safety inspections, wages and unemployment compensation, etc.

Anyone remember Ames?

My only experience with Ames came from the company's purchase of Hills discount stores.

But I definitely remember Hills. Even as child with low expectations...

States:  Yes.  Going into a new state is a complex web of laws.  This is why I was surprised that Sheetz had moved into Ohio.   I suspect Sheetz will move into SE Ohio, I don't know if they want to move further west as it is a whole different set of competitors; and I suspect it will fill in the rest of the NC map, before going anywhere else.  Kentucky is probably the next up.

Ames:  Remember.  Crap store.  Came into my area via old Hills and Murphy Mart stores. 

Hills.  Remember.  Crap store.  Their gimmick was "we don't take credit cards".  OK, fair enough.  What they did do was take checks and make the poor MW cashier copy (by hand) your DL number and your SS number (people were not nuttso about SSNs back then) and then go to this giant file of people that had passed bad checks, pull the card immediatly before and after where the name should have been, then initial the check, and then take their work, to a "manager" (who was often not right there to do the work) who then initialed it.  Then she had to put the cards back and then go back to her station and close out the ticket.   It was worth it to shop elsewhere.    Took forever to check out.  And, because they also took in a lot of cash for the same reason, the clerks were always shutting down to make cash drops and they kept the drawers so thin that "manager" had to go to a safe to give more than $15 change. 

[hm insulators]

Anyone remember Ames? I was in kindergarten/1st grade when in started to fall in the pit of dead retailers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkWvNs0sPLA

And Blockbuster. Oh the fond memories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Jc3_rnLYI

Never heard of Ames. I guess it was an East Coast store?

[hbelkins]

I don't remember that about Hills and credit cards (because my family didn't use credit cards back then, we paid cash) but there were two in Lexington that were pretty nice stores. We shopped there often.

Also CSC (Consolidated Sales Co.), which anchored the old Lexington Mall on Richmond Road at the corner of New Circle, and also had some locations in other areas. I think I remember them being in Louisville and metro Cincinnati.

[briantroutman]

Never heard of Ames. I guess it was an East Coast store?

The company was based in Connecticut and, largely through acquisitions, covered from New England westward as far as Illinois and southward to Tennessee and North Carolina at its peak (plus a few stores in Florida).



Another defunct retailer that just came to mind is Moore's Lumber and Building Supplies. It was a chain of home stores probably most similar to 84 Lumber–certainly much smaller and more "nuts and bolts"  than Lowe's or Home Depot.

Our hometown store was in a floodplain that got deluged in 1996. It closed after the flood and never reopened. From what little I can find elsewhere, other Pennsylvania stores closed a few years later, and the company, which was based in Roanoke, exited the retail business altogether and was sold by 2004.

Moore's fox M logo is one of those indelible images from my childhood:

[roadman65]

Great Eastern and Valley Fair in NJ back when Two Guys was in the Mid Atlantic States.


How about Phar More and Drug Emporium. Drug Emporium used to sell quarter Coke and Pepsi Products out their Vending Machines in the late 80s as thank you for shopping with them.

[Takumi]

Another defunct retailer that just came to mind is Moore's Lumber and Building Supplies. It was a chain of home stores probably most similar to 84 Lumber–certainly much smaller and more "nuts and bolts"  than Lowe's or Home Depot.

Our hometown store was in a floodplain that got deluged in 1996. It closed after the flood and never reopened. From what little I can find elsewhere, other Pennsylvania stores closed a few years later, and the company, which was based in Roanoke, exited the retail business altogether and was sold by 2004.

Moore's fox M logo is one of those indelible images from my childhood:

There was one in Petersburg. I remember the logo from my childhood but forgot about it until just now. To my knowledge, the Petersburg location was a victim of the city's 1990s retail collapse.

[thenetwork]

I think it's safe to say that the price of entry going into a new state is high enough that a company either needs to go "all in"  or not at all. And a business like Sheetz faces a complex web of different agencies that tax or regulate various aspects of its business: motor vehicle fuels, fuel pump certification, tobacco sales, alcohol sales (in some areas), foodservice safety inspections, wages and unemployment compensation, etc.

Anyone remember Ames?

My only experience with Ames came from the company's purchase of Hills discount stores.

But I definitely remember Hills. Even as child with low expectations...

States:  Yes.  Going into a new state is a complex web of laws.  This is why I was surprised that Sheetz had moved into Ohio.   I suspect Sheetz will move into SE Ohio, I don't know if they want to move further west as it is a whole different set of competitors; and I suspect it will fill in the rest of the NC map, before going anywhere else.  Kentucky is probably the next up.

IIRC, The only real regional C-Store chain I recall seeing in western ohio was Speedway.  Sheetz could do well, at least in NW Ohio.