Should Will County move to IDOT D3?

[dzlsabe]

Maybe its time for Joliet and Willco to join D3 and be the biggest dog in a much smaller fight. D1  has wasted time and tens of millions on projects like Peotone and Illiana for decades with nothing to show for it, depriving dozens of worthy projects the time and funding they deserve.

The population of IDOT D1 (last #s I could find) without Will County is 7,684,000. Will is 632K. IDOT D3 is 614K.

If Willco was in D3, a whole different source of funding/talent becomes available, freeing up stressed D1.

CMAP (the planning agency for Chicago metro) needs to have people from INDOT, Lake and Porter cos. and WIDOT, Dane (Madison is the closest capital to Chicago, imagine Chicago, WI?), Rock, Walworth, Racine and Kenosha cos. in the process more than quarterly. Monthly, even weekly better. All being on the same page (and quid pro quo) will be good for the whole region.

[Rick Powell]

At one time (I think in the 1920's) Will County was in District 3.  I only know this from working there and seeing a very old district map in the archives.  Kankakee County was briefly in District 1 also, from about 1970 to 1974.  With Will being a CMAP county, I can't see it changing.  Kendall County is the odd duck being a CMAP county and a District 3 county, and they did not join willingly; it was a result of the CATS/NIPC merger legislation in the mid 2000's.  Kendall has received a lot of $ over the last 20 years, mostly due to the Prairie Parkway federal earmarks of nearly $250 million that were re-purposed for US 34 and IL-47, but also with some of former Gov. Quinn's "Illinois Jobs Now" capital plan.  I doubt that Will County would fare as well proportionately as Kendall has if it were in District 3; federal earmarks are as of now a thing of the past, and the "55%" downstate share is more like 6 or 7 percent per District when it is all apportioned out every year, and Will would be fighting for a share of that small pie with Bureau, LaSalle, Ford, Livingston, Iroquois, Kankakee, Grundy, DeKalb, and Kendall counties which have lots of interstate and rural mileage and bridge needs, as well as long term expansion needs in 4 of the counties. 

[hbelkins]

Does Illinois allocate funding by highway district? Kentucky doesn't, except for (AFAIK) guardrail installation.

Projects are funded on a statewide basis and not by district. A project in Bullitt County, for example, wouldn't take any money away from a project in Louisville.

[Rick Powell]

Does Illinois allocate funding by highway district? Kentucky doesn't, except for (AFAIK) guardrail installation.

Projects are funded on a statewide basis and not by district. A project in Bullitt County, for example, wouldn't take any money away from a project in Louisville.

HB,

Funds are not allocated exactly by district in IL, but there is a long-standing agreement (since at least the Edgar administration in the early 90s) to provide approximately 45% of the highway funding to IDOT District 1 (6 counties of Chicagoland) and 55% of the remaining funding to the eight "downstate" districts in the remaining 96 counties.  Each downstate district has a separate budget which is allocated by the Central Office in Springfield.  There are occasions when Districts get a relatively high allocation for a special project (such as when I-74 was reconstructed in Peoria) but with the current state of funding and the need to keep bridges as well as roads in a good state of repair, there is realistically not a lot of wiggle room to allocate to a Downstate district for a big project that would require shorting the others, short of a special capital spending program (these seem to come along once every 10 years or so).  The Downstate districts were reorganized in the mid 2000s, and they have relatively similar needs, although there are differences (some have more counties and 2-lane road mileage, some have less counties but more interstate mileage).

[ChiMilNet]

Does Illinois allocate funding by highway district? Kentucky doesn't, except for (AFAIK) guardrail installation.

Projects are funded on a statewide basis and not by district. A project in Bullitt County, for example, wouldn't take any money away from a project in Louisville.

HB,

Funds are not allocated exactly by district in IL, but there is a long-standing agreement (since at least the Edgar administration in the early 90s) to provide approximately 45% of the highway funding to IDOT District 1 (6 counties of Chicagoland) and 55% of the remaining funding to the eight "downstate" districts in the remaining 96 counties.  Each downstate district has a separate budget which is allocated by the Central Office in Springfield.  There are occasions when Districts get a relatively high allocation for a special project (such as when I-74 was reconstructed in Peoria) but with the current state of funding and the need to keep bridges as well as roads in a good state of repair, there is realistically not a lot of wiggle room to allocate to a Downstate district for a big project that would require shorting the others, short of a special capital spending program (these seem to come along once every 10 years or so).  The Downstate districts were reorganized in the mid 2000s, and they have relatively similar needs, although there are differences (some have more counties and 2-lane road mileage, some have less counties but more interstate mileage).

Although one could make a good argument for moving Will County to D3, at least based on areas like Peotone, Wilmington, Braidwood, I think one should also look at the fact that Will County is very economically intertwined with Chicago (i.e. Cook & DuPage Counties). This especially applies for the Northern parts of Will County, which have a lot more in common with those areas (such as the southern half of Naperville, Bolingbrook, etc). This also is becoming much more the case with areas such as Mokena, New Lenox, and even Frankfort. Honestly, IMO, when all factors are considered, moving Will County to D3 would not make much sense for many of its more populated and growing areas. In fact, I'll take that further and say that IDOT really should look at adding Kendall County to D1 (most of it has more direct economic ties to Chicago than anywhere else in D3, not to mention a small portion of the roads in the far NE portion of it are under D1's jurisdiction already). D1 is pretty much setup on the premise that Cook County and any county that immediately borders it essentially falls within the Chicago region. I've seen district maps in other states setup similarly (MoDOT's St. Louis District comes to mind).

Really, it comes down to the economics of the main region. The majority of the money in original expressway/tollway construction was originally spent in the City, NW and West Suburbs as this is where the greatest concentration of population has resided. Did and does Will County and continue to get the shaft somewhat, yes. Although Will has about 675K people, Cook County has over 5 million people, DuPage County has just short of 1 million. Honestly, even Lake County with its 700K+ people gets the shaft somewhat, although a lot of that is self-inflicted (I'm looking at you Long Grove). The thing is now growth has found its way to Will County (even though it is still the 4th most populous county in a region of 6), and highway funding just isn't what it was. Luckily, the tollway managed to finally get the I-355 extension built. Unfortunately, by the time it made it to I-80, it found I-80 unable to handle the traffic, and IDOT D1 had to scramble just to add enough lanes to make it 6 lanes out to I-355 (this is more an indictment of IDOT not coordinating well with ISTHA, and I can name many other examples). However, before one makes an argument that anything in D1 South of Madison Street gets overlooked, all I am going to say is look at the massive rebuild that happened on the Dan Ryan. By the way, a LOT of that is Will County bound traffic. If ANY county has an argument to move to a different district, I think McHenry County has the best argument. Again, its economics dictate that it is more closely intertwined with Chicago even though much of it is geographically closer to Rockford.

[Rothman]

Projects are funded on a statewide basis and not by district. A project in Bullitt County, for example, wouldn't take any money away from a project in Louisville.

How does KY get away with that?  Doesn't some county executive get all bent out of shape that his road isn't being fixed due to funds being spent elsewhere?

[hbelkins]

Projects are funded on a statewide basis and not by district. A project in Bullitt County, for example, wouldn't take any money away from a project in Louisville.

How does KY get away with that?  Doesn't some county executive get all bent out of shape that his road isn't being fixed due to funds being spent elsewhere?

Road projects are approved by the state legislature. There is a new six-year plan passed every two years during the General Assembly's biennial budget sessions. The Transportation Cabinet comes up with the plan and then legislators have the chance to add to it.

Funding for county and municipal roads comes from a set-aside from gas tax revenues, is determined by statute, and is distributed based on mileage.

[jakeroot]

Road projects are approved by the state legislature. There is a new six-year plan passed every two years during the General Assembly's biennial budget sessions. The Transportation Cabinet comes up with the plan and then legislators have the chance to add to it.

Washington's funding method sounds similar to Kentucky. Every five to six years or so, (the following is not official, just what I think I know) the legislature convenes and decides what to raise the gas tax to, in order to fund a transport package. Most recently, Washington raised the tax 11.9 cents, to 49.4 cents (taking full effect next summer). Each package has a list of projects that are funded as part of the tax increase. It should come as no surprise that the Seattle-area gets most of the money, and only some is allocated to areas east of the mountains.

[dzlsabe]

THANK YOU all for your great insightful, multi-sentenced replies. Its a breath of fresh air.

@Rick
Do you have a handle on the whole 55/45 thing? I ask CMAP, and even they dont seem to have a straight answer. My thinking is that for every dollar collected in IDOT D1 in federal gas taxes (FHTF), a miserable 18c and 24c for diesel per gallon, D1 gets what from Id assume Springfield? From state or local tax collections? How is that allocated?

@HB
KY is a state with two major cities and a third city is the capital. Kinda like PA, CA or NY even. Now compare states where the capital is the largest city. Boston, Atlanta, Indianapolis, MSP, Denver, Des Moines etal. Then OH, TX, TN, FL are states that have many cities, but the capital isnt the largest. IL, WI, MI, NV, WA, OR have large cities, but they arent the capital. How do the road (or rail) funding mechanisms contrast/compare?

[Rick Powell]

55/45 is for IDOT maintained construction projects only.  County, township and municipal roads get a MFT distribution based on a formula - not sure of the exact components but it is based in part on mileage.  I do know that if a township goes below 7 miles of maintained roads, they lose their MFT distribution.  It is my understanding that the IDOT 55/45 represents straight state funded projects, plus those financed by federal aid with matching state funds; it was an attempt to balance the needs of District 1 (with 2/3 of the state population and the most congestion) with Districts 2 thru 9 (with 80% of the centerline mileage and 95% of the state's counties).

IDOT also has a 6 year plan that gets updated every year, but only the current fiscal year of the program is actually approved and appropriated by the legislature and governor.  Thus, there are some projects in the outer years of the 6 year plan that have been there for more than 6 years.  Some projects keep moving to the back of the line while others move up quickly, depending on a host of factors.

[dzlsabe]

55/45 is for IDOT maintained construction projects only.  County, township and municipal roads get a MFT distribution based on a formula - not sure of the exact components but it is based in part on mileage.  I do know that if a township goes below 7 miles of maintained roads, they lose their MFT distribution.  The IDOT 55/45 represents straight state plus federal aid with matching state funds; it was an attempt to balance the needs of District 1 (with 2/3 of the state population and the most congestion) with Districts 2 thru 9 (with 80% of the centerline mileage and 95% of the state's counties).


Awesome. My slightest quibble is its closer to 75% of the GDP, 66% population is right. Congestion? Were #1 I read. The Kennedy. Do we get a draft pick?

[Rothman]

Projects are funded on a statewide basis and not by district. A project in Bullitt County, for example, wouldn't take any money away from a project in Louisville.

How does KY get away with that?  Doesn't some county executive get all bent out of shape that his road isn't being fixed due to funds being spent elsewhere?

Road projects are approved by the state legislature. There is a new six-year plan passed every two years during the General Assembly's biennial budget sessions. The Transportation Cabinet comes up with the plan and then legislators have the chance to add to it.

Funding for county and municipal roads comes from a set-aside from gas tax revenues, is determined by statute, and is distributed based on mileage.

Makes me wonder what would happen if we instituted something like that in NY, where state law dictates how funds are distributed.  NYSDOT signs an MOU with the State Legislature, but there's still a lot of leniency with what actually gets done.  NYSDOT decides how to divvy up the funding of its capital program to its regions and the formulas have changed with every round of the official program update that I've been involved in.  I think NYSDOT would prefer having that flexibility rather than having a set law, even though the law would take a lot of the "burden" off of it (i.e., local and county whiners couldn't whine as much if the distribution was set in law).  NY's ridiculously complicated ownership of the infrastructure as well probably prevents something like that from becoming reality as well (i.e., too many entities own too many parts of the infrastructure).

[Rick Powell]

Awesome. My slightest quibble is its closer to 75% of the population and GDP. Congestion? Were #1 I read. The Kennedy. Do we get a draft pick?

2014 Census estimate > State = 12,880,580.  District 1 counties = 8,404,358.  65.2% to be more exact.

#1 draft picks often turn out to be busts.  The civil engineering equivalent of Ryan Leaf would probably be a major river bridge that collapses a year after being put in service.  Be careful what you wish for :-)

[dzlsabe]

It was GDP that was closer to 75%, population is about 66%.

[paulthemapguy]

Will County person here.
The state roads in this county are so garbage that I noticed it starting when I was just 11-12 years old.
The reason why isn't hard to identify- it's just that we are small potatoes compared to all the high-profile stuff District 1 wants to do for the more high-profile areas.  We're Hickville, we get it.
Two years ago, IDOT put up "Rough Road" signs on a 4-mile section of US52--basically saying "yeah we know the road's garbage but we're not gonna fix it right now; deal with it  " (They did resurface it last fall though.)
And this is BEFORE the state's failure to pass a budget (colossal shameful deplorable disgusting failure).

With that said, I don't know if it would be better to throw us to District 3.  District 3 already is the most misshapen region of anything since the state of Maryland.  And since we are a collar county, I don't know if it would be the best idea to pass us over.  We're in the CMAP area (partially), and as the area grows, it strengthens the argument for keeping us contiguous with the rest of the Chicagoland area.  I'd just like it if D1 gave as much of a crap about its rural sections as it does about the urban ones.  And since the boundary between urban/rural will never match any county lines exactly, this is probably the best we're gonna do.