Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

I've never been on the Burlington bypass, but looking at Google Maps it does seem like a poor effort from WISDOT. Similar to the Whitewater bypass, which is an odd crossover between expressway and normal two-lane road, yet you can't even call it a Super 2 because there are several intersections. I'm guessing that WISDOT anticipated more growth in that area than what has actually happened since the bypass was built in the late 2000s.

Yeah I've never driven the Burlington Bypass either but I spent some time on street view trying to figure out what the design philosophy was.

I've driven the Whitewater Bypass a number of times and I actually it's a neat road, they avoided overbuilding it I think. From the looks of some of the bridges, it seems like they bought ROW for an expressway, but don't want to bother building it unless volumes increase, or until Illinois finally puts up that 53 extension. Tho if they ever do finally put up that Fort Atkinson Bypass for 12, which they should in my opinion, turning the Whitewater Bypass into an expressway bypass won't be too far behind I suspect.

The current design of the Whitewater bypass makes it the most dangerous kind of road in the world in terms of serious accidents: relatively busy rural two lane highway with a high speed limit (55) and numerous intersections. WISDOT has spent loads of time and money upgrading highways like that recently. The WI-23 project that is going on now, WI-26, WI-29, US-12 between Madison and Wisconsin Dells, US-10 between Stevens Point and Marshfield, WI-50 east of Lake Geneva, and I'm sure there are others. So it beats me as to why they chose to create another one of those roads.

The Fort Atkinson bypass isn't needed and isn't going to happen.

US-12 around Whitewater doesn't get nearly the traffic (except for summer weekends) that WI-23 gets.  The problem with the bypass initially was that it was built with stop signs and not stop lights.  But it should have been built as a "Super 2" in the first place.

[triplemultiplex]

I've long suspected state politics played a roll in getting that bypass around Burlington.  Something a state senator or assembly person could point to and say, "See what I did?  Re-elect me!"

I haven't had reason to drive through Burlington in recent years, so I don't have any first-hand anecdotes to relate since that one from a decade ago.  I'd be surprised if there has been a substantial change.

Burlington and Whitewater were indicative of a trend in Wisconsin in the mid to late 00's.  The half-ass bypass craze.  Not wanting to spend the money to build it right, but wanting to spread a little cheddar around the state, several of these went up.  In addition to Burlington and Whitewater, the Fond du Lac bypass for US 151 fell into this category.  A high speed divided roadway with at grade intersections and stoplights that were quickly the sites of grisly wrecks.  They've since gone in and patched together more access control for far more money that would have been spent if the damn thing had been built as a freeway from the get go.  The resulting reroute of US 45 would be hilarious if it wasn't so stupid.

Another half-ass bypass was slated to go in around Viroqua; this one would've been two lanes and had very few grade separations.  Similar to Burlington, the traffic wasn't actually there for it and it was eventually scrapped. 

Just when you thought Wisconsin learned its lesson, the half-ass bypass is coming back for folks up in Hortonville.  They're getting bypassed by a four lane expressway for WI 15 with roundabouts on either end.  And on the west end, WI 15 will effectively T-out on itself creating a 'turn left to stay on' situation for EB traffic.  The roundabouts seem to me to be a penny saving move.  They can't afford proper interchanges, so they're just putting up something that will make it harder for cars to hit each other at high speed.

Coming back to Rhinelander; that's a bypass of 80's vintage where the old route navigated through a pair of 90 degree turns.  It's another situation where there isn't that much thru traffic trying to go around the city on US 8, so the horizon for additional lanes or interchanges was and still is far away.  But the 45 mph limit feels painfully slow between the traffic signals due to the rural nature and high-speed appearance of the highway.  When WI 17 was rerouted out of town onto a new arterial on the city's east side in the 00's I did lament that the new junction at US 8 couldn't have been an interchange.  Hard to justify with the traffic counts tho.

[I-39]

I've long suspected state politics played a roll in getting that bypass around Burlington.  Something a state senator or assembly person could point to and say, "See what I did?  Re-elect me!"

That is the case for most of the four lane highway expansions in Wisconsin.

[mgk920]

No article links handy, but I have been hearing some local chatter about the State of Wisconsin possibly having moved up the proposed six lane upgrades to I-41 from WI 15/Northland Ave at Appleton to Scheuring Rd in De Pere by three years, from the 2025-2029 time frame to 2022-2026.  Is anyone able to confirm this?

Mike

[JREwing78]

Coming back to Rhinelander; that's a bypass of 80's vintage where the old route navigated through a pair of 90 degree turns.  It's another situation where there isn't that much thru traffic trying to go around the city on US 8, so the horizon for additional lanes or interchanges was and still is far away.  But the 45 mph limit feels painfully slow between the traffic signals due to the rural nature and high-speed appearance of the highway.  When WI 17 was rerouted out of town onto a new arterial on the city's east side in the 00's I did lament that the new junction at US 8 couldn't have been an interchange.  Hard to justify with the traffic counts tho.

I absolutely detest driving around Rhinelander. After tooling up I-39/US-51 for hours at Interstate speeds, and just starting to get acclimated to 55 (or thereabouts) on US-8, you run into speed limits made to rack up expensive tickets. There's absolutely no reason US-8 on the bypass couldn't be posted for 55. Hwy 17 could've easily been posted for 40 or 45; the posted 35 is frustratingly slow.

Problem is, if you're headed for the Keweenaw from the Wausau area, there's not a good way to avoid Rhinelander. The alternatives are all longer and farther.

[Big John]

^^ There are traffic signals on the bypass and WisDOT doesn't like speed limits over 45 by those.

[thspfc]

Coming back to Rhinelander; that's a bypass of 80's vintage where the old route navigated through a pair of 90 degree turns.  It's another situation where there isn't that much thru traffic trying to go around the city on US 8, so the horizon for additional lanes or interchanges was and still is far away.  But the 45 mph limit feels painfully slow between the traffic signals due to the rural nature and high-speed appearance of the highway.  When WI 17 was rerouted out of town onto a new arterial on the city's east side in the 00's I did lament that the new junction at US 8 couldn't have been an interchange.  Hard to justify with the traffic counts tho.

I absolutely detest driving around Rhinelander. After tooling up I-39/US-51 for hours at Interstate speeds, and just starting to get acclimated to 55 (or thereabouts) on US-8, you run into speed limits made to rack up expensive tickets. There's absolutely no reason US-8 on the bypass couldn't be posted for 55. Hwy 17 could've easily been posted for 40 or 45; the posted 35 is frustratingly slow.

Problem is, if you're headed for the Keweenaw from the Wausau area, there's not a good way to avoid Rhinelander. The alternatives are all longer and farther.

You could take US-51 up to Woodruff, then WI-70 east to Eagle River. But the Minocqua/Woodruff area is probably worse than Rhinelander, in the summer at least.

[SEWIGuy]

^^ There are traffic signals on the bypass and WisDOT doesn't like speed limits over 45 by those.

Whitewater bypass is 55 mph the entire stretch.

[JREwing78]

^^ There are traffic signals on the bypass and WisDOT doesn't like speed limits over 45 by those.

Whitewater bypass is 55 mph the entire stretch.

As is the Burlington bypass. Also, the Hwy 11 bypass of Janesville (speaking of half-assed bypasses) is posted for 55 for all except just shortly before the I-39/90 interchange.

[The Ghostbuster]

Assuming the DOT was right to have built the Burlington Bypass, would two lanes have been sufficient for the bypass? What about if all highway crossings had been at-grade intersections, instead of constructing the four jug-handle interchanges, and the three no-access grade separations?

[hobsini2]

Assuming the DOT was right to have built the Burlington Bypass, would two lanes have been sufficient for the bypass? What about if all highway crossings had been at-grade intersections, instead of constructing the four jug-handle interchanges, and the three no-access grade separations?

I have a feeling that the reason they did not go with 2 lanes on the Burlington Bypass was because Wis 36 was already a 4 lane in the 1990s out to Burlington.

[ChiMilNet]

This past weekend, I was driving up I-90 towards the Dells from Chicagoland, and I will say, the sections that have been redone between the border and Madison are a welcome improvement... it will greatly help once the I-43 interchange in Beloit and the portion through Janesville are all done. Overall, the lane additions have been needed for a long time. However, at the construction sites, the lane drops seem a bit premature, particularly Northbound at the State Line, where it happens very suddenly with little warning. I had to suddenly move over, and it would have been nice to have a little more of a gradual merge. Maybe I am nitpicking, but I felt this was causing some unnecessary backups at places.

One question, that I am wondering, but are there any longer terms plans to widen I-90/94 at least through their North split? The stretch North of where I-39 splits off the mainline and then it reduces down to two lanes each way feels very congested now. In fact, traffic was backing up just because of a vehicle on the side of the road with a slight fender bender. I feel, with the summer holiday traffic going up to the Dells and places beyond, I-90/94 really is going to need an additional lane through the entirety of the multiplex. I hope WiDOT has long terms plans to continue the widening at least through this stretch and maybe beyond.

Edit: One last thought, also, any plans on the stretch through Madison itself? I see that Janesville is going to be as wide as eight lanes in spots, and the Madison stretch would greatly benefit from such a widening also.

[I-39]

This past weekend, I was driving up I-90 towards the Dells from Chicagoland, and I will say, the sections that have been redone between the border and Madison are a welcome improvement... it will greatly help once the I-43 interchange in Beloit and the portion through Janesville are all done. Overall, the lane additions have been needed for a long time. However, at the construction sites, the lane drops seem a bit premature, particularly Northbound at the State Line, where it happens very suddenly with little warning. I had to suddenly move over, and it would have been nice to have a little more of a gradual merge. Maybe I am nitpicking, but I felt this was causing some unnecessary backups at places.

One question, that I am wondering, but are there any longer terms plans to widen I-90/94 at least through their North split? The stretch North of where I-39 splits off the mainline and then it reduces down to two lanes each way feels very congested now. In fact, traffic was backing up just because of a vehicle on the side of the road with a slight fender bender. I feel, with the summer holiday traffic going up to the Dells and places beyond, I-90/94 really is going to need an additional lane through the entirety of the multiplex. I hope WiDOT has long terms plans to continue the widening at least through this stretch and maybe beyond.

Edit: One last thought, also, any plans on the stretch through Madison itself? I see that Janesville is going to be as wide as eight lanes in spots, and the Madison stretch would greatly benefit from such a widening also.

I think they are or are about to restart the study to widen I-39/90/94 between the Beltline and the I-90/94 split off northwest of the Dells.

[ChiMilNet]

This past weekend, I was driving up I-90 towards the Dells from Chicagoland, and I will say, the sections that have been redone between the border and Madison are a welcome improvement... it will greatly help once the I-43 interchange in Beloit and the portion through Janesville are all done. Overall, the lane additions have been needed for a long time. However, at the construction sites, the lane drops seem a bit premature, particularly Northbound at the State Line, where it happens very suddenly with little warning. I had to suddenly move over, and it would have been nice to have a little more of a gradual merge. Maybe I am nitpicking, but I felt this was causing some unnecessary backups at places.

One question, that I am wondering, but are there any longer terms plans to widen I-90/94 at least through their North split? The stretch North of where I-39 splits off the mainline and then it reduces down to two lanes each way feels very congested now. In fact, traffic was backing up just because of a vehicle on the side of the road with a slight fender bender. I feel, with the summer holiday traffic going up to the Dells and places beyond, I-90/94 really is going to need an additional lane through the entirety of the multiplex. I hope WiDOT has long terms plans to continue the widening at least through this stretch and maybe beyond.

Edit: One last thought, also, any plans on the stretch through Madison itself? I see that Janesville is going to be as wide as eight lanes in spots, and the Madison stretch would greatly benefit from such a widening also.

I think they are or are about to restart the study to widen I-39/90/94 between the Beltline and the I-90/94 split off northwest of the Dells.

Put me down as someone who says it's badly needed! I realize they have and continue to have work to do in order to get it up to par between Madison and the State Line, so props to that portion coming together. I think it all the more highlights the need for the rest of this stretch now.

[gr8daynegb]

No article links handy, but I have been hearing some local chatter about the State of Wisconsin possibly having moved up the proposed six lane upgrades to I-41 from WI 15/Northland Ave at Appleton to Scheuring Rd in De Pere by three years, from the 2025-2029 time frame to 2022-2026.  Is anyone able to confirm this?

Mike

Would hope this is true, would help everyone heading south or north on that stretch on 41 to do that sooner than later.  I'd assume the creation of the Southridge road exit would be moved up too(just south of Schuering Road exit)

[thspfc]

This past weekend, I was driving up I-90 towards the Dells from Chicagoland, and I will say, the sections that have been redone between the border and Madison are a welcome improvement... it will greatly help once the I-43 interchange in Beloit and the portion through Janesville are all done. Overall, the lane additions have been needed for a long time. However, at the construction sites, the lane drops seem a bit premature, particularly Northbound at the State Line, where it happens very suddenly with little warning. I had to suddenly move over, and it would have been nice to have a little more of a gradual merge. Maybe I am nitpicking, but I felt this was causing some unnecessary backups at places.

One question, that I am wondering, but are there any longer terms plans to widen I-90/94 at least through their North split? The stretch North of where I-39 splits off the mainline and then it reduces down to two lanes each way feels very congested now. In fact, traffic was backing up just because of a vehicle on the side of the road with a slight fender bender. I feel, with the summer holiday traffic going up to the Dells and places beyond, I-90/94 really is going to need an additional lane through the entirety of the multiplex. I hope WiDOT has long terms plans to continue the widening at least through this stretch and maybe beyond.

Edit: One last thought, also, any plans on the stretch through Madison itself? I see that Janesville is going to be as wide as eight lanes in spots, and the Madison stretch would greatly benefit from such a widening also.

WISDOT has done a great job on I-39/90 through Janesville. Has anyone here driven it recently? Last time I drove it was in February, when it was only complete up to Racine Street, but I was impressed with the finished part.

I can't remember exactly where the I-43/WI-81 construction zone starts on I-39/90 in Beloit, but if it's really close to the state line then it might be ISTHA's responsibility to adequately sign the lane drop for the northbound carriageway.

The decent majority of the north/westbound I-39/90/94 traffic continues on I-90/94 towards the Dells rather than splitting onto I-39 towards Wausau. For that reason I think that expanding 90/94 to six lanes between US-12/Dells Parkway and I-39/WI-78 takes priority over expanding the triplex to eight lanes, as an eight to four lane drop would be a nasty one for a freeway with that much traffic.

Interestingly I haven't had too many issues with I-39/90/94 in Madison. It's busy, but what really helps is that the interchanges in the most densely populated areas (US-151, I-94/WI-30, and the Beltline) are free-flowing. The 70 MPH speed limit also makes a huge difference, but the busier the highway gets the less sustainable the 70 MPH speed becomes.

In fact, I've noticed that I-39/90/(94) traffic backs up more often at the CTH-N and WI-19 interchanges than it does at the more major junctions. The CTH-N interchange is being/just got converted into a dumbbell (is that finished yet?) so we'll see if that makes a difference. But the WI-19 interchange is in a rough position in terms of traffic, due to a combination of surrounding development, the somewhat unconventional angles of the highways, railroad tracks complicating matters, and the nearby Lake Road intersection. The railroad crossing and Lake Road traffic light are oddly in between the 39/90/94 WB exit ramp and the 19 WB entrance ramp to the freeway.

[thspfc]

No article links handy, but I have been hearing some local chatter about the State of Wisconsin possibly having moved up the proposed six lane upgrades to I-41 from WI 15/Northland Ave at Appleton to Scheuring Rd in De Pere by three years, from the 2025-2029 time frame to 2022-2026.  Is anyone able to confirm this?

Mike

Would hope this is true, would help everyone heading south or north on that stretch on 41 to do that sooner than later.  I'd assume the creation of the Southridge road exit would be moved up too(just south of Schuering Road exit)

Has WISDOT confirmed that they're going to build an exit at Southridge Road when they expand that stretch of I-41? It doesn't seem needed to me, as northbound traffic can use Lawrence Drive while southbound can use Scheuring.

[Big John]

No article links handy, but I have been hearing some local chatter about the State of Wisconsin possibly having moved up the proposed six lane upgrades to I-41 from WI 15/Northland Ave at Appleton to Scheuring Rd in De Pere by three years, from the 2025-2029 time frame to 2022-2026.  Is anyone able to confirm this?

Mike

Would hope this is true, would help everyone heading south or north on that stretch on 41 to do that sooner than later.  I'd assume the creation of the Southridge road exit would be moved up too(just south of Schuering Road exit)

Has WISDOT confirmed that they're going to build an exit at Southridge Road when they expand that stretch of I-41? It doesn't seem needed to me, as northbound traffic can use Lawrence Drive while southbound can use Scheuring.

Southridge Rd would have a bridge over the Fox River while the previous 2 roads don't.

[JREwing78]

This past weekend, I was driving up I-90 towards the Dells from Chicagoland, and I will say, the sections that have been redone between the border and Madison are a welcome improvement... it will greatly help once the I-43 interchange in Beloit and the portion through Janesville are all done. Overall, the lane additions have been needed for a long time. However, at the construction sites, the lane drops seem a bit premature, particularly Northbound at the State Line, where it happens very suddenly with little warning. I had to suddenly move over, and it would have been nice to have a little more of a gradual merge. Maybe I am nitpicking, but I felt this was causing some unnecessary backups at places.

WISDOT has done a great job on I-39/90 through Janesville. Has anyone here driven it recently? Last time I drove it was in February, when it was only complete up to Racine Street, but I was impressed with the finished part.

I can't remember exactly where the I-43/WI-81 construction zone starts on I-39/90 in Beloit, but if it's really close to the state line then it might be ISTHA's responsibility to adequately sign the lane drop for the northbound carriageway.

Only all the time! It's kind of necessary to get anywhere from Janesville.   
The lane drop at the border is ISTHA's responsibility, since they did the 6 lane widening prior to WisDOT, and I agree the signage for the lane drop is quite poor. The roadway is finished for an additional mile up to the I-43/WI-81 interchange, but striped for 2 lanes northbound instead of 3. WisDOT does a much better job of warning about their lane drops.

At the end of last year the vast majority of the construction between Madison and the border was completed. It's now only the 3 most major interchanges on the stretch, and they've made good progress towards completion. WisDOT has done a good job of posting about the progress on their Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/WisconsinI3990Project

The decent majority of the north/westbound I-39/90/94 traffic continues on I-90/94 towards the Dells rather than splitting onto I-39 towards Wausau. For that reason I think that expanding 90/94 to six lanes between US-12/Dells Parkway and I-39/WI-78 takes priority over expanding the triplex to eight lanes, as an eight to four lane drop would be a nasty one for a freeway with that much traffic.

I agree. 6-laning to at least the Hwy 13 interchange in Wisconsin Dells is the next order of business, followed closely by 8-laning the section between I-94/WI-30 and the Beltline (US-12/18). If/when WisDOT completes a 4-lane bypass around Prairie du Sac and Sauk City, US-12 will be able to take some of the Dells traffic off I-39/90/94, but not for long. Any advantage gained staying off the Interstate will go away once drivers encounter the congestion of the Beltline.

[gbgoose]

No article links handy, but I have been hearing some local chatter about the State of Wisconsin possibly having moved up the proposed six lane upgrades to I-41 from WI 15/Northland Ave at Appleton to Scheuring Rd in De Pere by three years, from the 2025-2029 time frame to 2022-2026.  Is anyone able to confirm this?

Mike

I hope there is some truth to the chatter!  I drive that stretch several times a week, and it's one of the, if not most dangerous stretches in Wisconsin.  There are accidents all the time between Richmond St (Hwy 47) and the Wrightstown exit. 

[SEWIGuy]

Traffic counts on that stretch of I-90/94 are about the same as I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee.  That follows my experience.  I think I-94 expansion between Waukesha and the Dells makes sense long term, but it should start on I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee.

[thspfc]

Traffic counts on that stretch of I-90/94 are about the same as I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee.  That follows my experience.  I think I-94 expansion between Waukesha and the Dells makes sense long term, but it should start on I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee.

When you say "between Madison and Milwaukee", does that mean the average AADT between I-39/90/WI-30 and the Marquette Interchange (or something along those lines), or does it mean the average AADT on the four lane segment (between CTH-N at Cottage Grove and WI-16 at Waukesha)?

Regardless, it's important to note that I-90/94 between Portage and Tomah has significantly more truck traffic. Look at this map: <img src="https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/freight_analysis/nat_freight_stats/docs/11factsfigures/images/fig3_9.jpg"

Trucks move slower, and therefore hold up traffic more. They're also much more important from an economic standpoint, which is an important factor in road projects. So a tie goes to the highway with more trucks IMO.

I don't think that I-94 needs six lanes for the entire distance between Madison and Milwaukee, but it does need six lanes from the current lane drop at WI-16 out to the about WI-83 exit in Delafield, which is where metropolitan Milwaukee traffic picks up.

[triplemultiplex]

I'd put money on WisDOT breaking ground on 6-laning 90/94 between Portage and Lake Delton this decade.
(Though 10 years ago, I would've said the same thing about 94 west of Waukesha, and yet, here we are. )


Public hearings for I-41 expansion between Appleton and Green Bay next week should reveal some answers about a sooner start date for construction:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/i41/default.aspx

[Roadguy]

Traffic counts on that stretch of I-90/94 are about the same as I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee.  That follows my experience.  I think I-94 expansion between Waukesha and the Dells makes sense long term, but it should start on I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee.

When you say "between Madison and Milwaukee", does that mean the average AADT between I-39/90/WI-30 and the Marquette Interchange (or something along those lines), or does it mean the average AADT on the four lane segment (between CTH-N at Cottage Grove and WI-16 at Waukesha)?

Regardless, it's important to note that I-90/94 between Portage and Tomah has significantly more truck traffic. Look at this map: <img src="https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/freight_analysis/nat_freight_stats/docs/11factsfigures/images/fig3_9.jpg"

Trucks move slower, and therefore hold up traffic more. They're also much more important from an economic standpoint, which is an important factor in road projects. So a tie goes to the highway with more trucks IMO.

I don't think that I-94 needs six lanes for the entire distance between Madison and Milwaukee, but it does need six lanes from the current lane drop at WI-16 out to the about WI-83 exit in Delafield, which is where metropolitan Milwaukee traffic picks up.

The difference also as well for priority is the peaks / variation in traffic.  I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee does not have the same weekend / holiday peaks as I-39/90/94.  No doubt that I-94 is busy between the two cities and the 3rd lane EB / WB on I-94 should be extended west from WIS 16 but it is not surprising that WisDOT is studying I-39/90/94 first.  In my opinion on I-39/90/94 the 3rd lane should be extended up I-90/94 to Exit 92 (Hwy 12 in Wis Dells) and Auxiliary lanes added between exits 92-89, 89-87 and 87-85 to help drivers transition off / on the highway in this area (the heavy merge volumes slow traffic on the interstate up through the Dells).  Ultimately someday that 3rd lane is going to have to be extended further north towards the I-90/94 split.  The advantage is WisDOT is already widening many of the bridges to fit 3 lanes when they get worked on as for construction staging FHWA is requiring 2 lanes be maintained in each direction during that work.  That makes the 3rd lane expansion more feasible in the future as bridges are a significant cost in any expansion project.

[Roadguy]

Public hearings for I-41 expansion between Appleton and Green Bay next week should reveal some answers about a sooner start date for construction:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/i41/default.aspx

The Environmental Document (purpose of the meetings next week) is on the website: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/i41/enviro.aspx

The document lists as early as 2024 for a construction start date (project will take multiple years).  It also has layouts of the design (6 lanes, a lot of DDI's in Appleton, new systems interchange with flyovers at WIS 441, and new interchange for the south bridge connection).