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Where is this viaduct? (1930s, Weehawken, NJ)

Started by ErmineNotyours, January 25, 2019, 12:30:06 AM

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ErmineNotyours

A while ago I bought God's Own Junkyard, 1964 by Peter Blake.  In it he posts photos of roadscapes and contrasts them with photos of natural scenery, to try to prove the ugliness of roads.  I like the book for all the cool historic photos of highways and roadside ephemera.  One photo is simply captioned "New Jersey highways."  It shows an elevated, undivided viaduct.  The best clue is the signage for the offramp at the bottom.  It says "Jersey City, Hudson Blvd, Yonkers Ferry, Lincoln Tunnel".  The shield assembly for the exit shows US 1, US 5(?) and NJ 3.  The highway that leads to the Lincoln Tunnel was NJ 3 before I-495, and now NJ 495.  Hudson Blvd. became John F. Kennedy Blvd.  The shadows seem to be very short and straight ahead in the photo, so at first I thought the photo looks north at noon.  The cars seem to be of 1930s vintage.  Based on the hill and the lack of any other leads, I'm guessing the view is approximately here, where the current NJ 3 is about to meet 495, but I'm not 100% sure.

1930s Viaduct, Weehawken, NJ by Arthur Allen, on Flickr

(I just bought a new scanner, but the scanner can't trick as much detail out of the image as can my smart phone, so I used that capture instead.  Oh well.)


Alps

#1
This is the Pulaski Skyway eastbound at Tonnelle Circle, nothing to do with Route 3 here. What you're seeing is US 1 and US 9 (well, those are definite), paired with an NJ 1 shield (which followed NJ 440 up through Tonnelle Circle and on toward US 9W and the NY border).


ETA: Destinations on sign appear to be JERSEY CITY, HUDSON BLVD, BONNERS?? FERRY, LINCOLN TUNNEL.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ferries_across_the_Hudson_River_to_New_York_City - no help)

ErmineNotyours

Quote from: Alps on January 25, 2019, 12:38:04 AM
This is the Pulaski Skyway eastbound at Tonnelle Circle, nothing to do with Route 3 here. What you're seeing is US 1 and US 9 (well, those are definite), paired with an NJ 1 shield (which followed NJ 440 up through Tonnelle Circle and on toward US 9W and the NY border).


That's near the view I had linked to Google Maps.  They called it New Jersey 3, and when you go there you can see New Jersey 3 on the signs.

Quote
ETA: Destinations on sign appear to be JERSEY CITY, HUDSON BLVD, BONNERS?? FERRY, LINCOLN TUNNEL.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ferries_across_the_Hudson_River_to_New_York_City - no help)

YONKERS ferry!

ErmineNotyours


Alps

#4
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 25, 2019, 01:13:15 AM
Quote from: Alps on January 25, 2019, 12:38:04 AM
This is the Pulaski Skyway eastbound at Tonnelle Circle, nothing to do with Route 3 here. What you're seeing is US 1 and US 9 (well, those are definite), paired with an NJ 1 shield (which followed NJ 440 up through Tonnelle Circle and on toward US 9W and the NY border).


That's near the view I had linked to Google Maps.  They called it New Jersey 3, and when you go there you can see New Jersey 3 on the signs.

Quote
ETA: Destinations on sign appear to be JERSEY CITY, HUDSON BLVD, BONNERS?? FERRY, LINCOLN TUNNEL.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ferries_across_the_Hudson_River_to_New_York_City - no help)

YONKERS ferry!
Are you asserting that I'm somehow mistaken about anything I've stated? Other than the ferry name, which I question (Yonkers isn't one of the next several ferries north), I'm not mistaken.
Edit: I can believe Yonkers, even though one would pass the Edgewater ferry to get there. It was touted as a Manhattan bypass in the 20s.
Also, the original map you linked was nowhere near the Skyway.

ErmineNotyours

Quote from: Alps on January 25, 2019, 01:29:28 PM
Are you asserting that I'm somehow mistaken about anything I've stated? Other than the ferry name, which I question (Yonkers isn't one of the next several ferries north), I'm not mistaken.
Edit: I can believe Yonkers, even though one would pass the Edgewater ferry to get there. It was touted as a Manhattan bypass in the 20s.
Also, the original map you linked was nowhere near the Skyway.

No, you are right, and thank you so much for finding it!  I didn't have time to fully research your suggestions last night, and Google Maps didn't recognize Tonnelle Circle.  When I typed in just "Tonnelle", it brought me to where I originally linked.  Only this morning did I search further, and the second link I posted has the same POV as the historic picture.  Your suggestion was absolutely spot on! :clap:

I'm amazed this structure still survives, albeit with a narrow divider and another structure to the north.  On Street View I can even find some of the small buildings from the historic picture.  I still have no idea how to navigate the area, or exactly how the roads here have evolved over the years.

Alps

Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 25, 2019, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: Alps on January 25, 2019, 01:29:28 PM
Are you asserting that I'm somehow mistaken about anything I've stated? Other than the ferry name, which I question (Yonkers isn't one of the next several ferries north), I'm not mistaken.
Edit: I can believe Yonkers, even though one would pass the Edgewater ferry to get there. It was touted as a Manhattan bypass in the 20s.
Also, the original map you linked was nowhere near the Skyway.

No, you are right, and thank you so much for finding it!  I didn't have time to fully research your suggestions last night, and Google Maps didn't recognize Tonnelle Circle.  When I typed in just "Tonnelle", it brought me to where I originally linked.  Only this morning did I search further, and the second link I posted has the same POV as the historic picture.  Your suggestion was absolutely spot on! :clap:

I'm amazed this structure still survives, albeit with a narrow divider and another structure to the north.  On Street View I can even find some of the small buildings from the historic picture.  I still have no idea how to navigate the area, or exactly how the roads here have evolved over the years.
Ah, thanks. Well, yes, we're all a bit amazed it survives, because it came very close to dying. NJDOT weighed replacement against reconstruction and ultimately decided recon would be cheaper. Turns out after pulling apart steel beams while trying to demo the roadway, they realized that in the end, this solution would be vastly more expensive than a full replacement, not to mention of course more time and a ton more maintenance of traffic, but they were too deep in by then. I'm glad, though. I would miss the old gal tremendously.

DJ Particle


SignBridge

What a great old photo! I'm guessing a little later than captioned. The cars look more like late 1940's. I traveled thru this interchange and its ramps hundreds of times as a little kid with my parents in my Dad's '51 Chevy, in the 1950's. And diagrammed it many times around 1961, the same time the first low curb divider was installed on the Skyway. What great memories!

empirestate

Here's the view on Historic Aerials (if you back up to the 1931 imagery, you see this configuration just beginning to be built):
https://www.historicaerials.com/location/40.739372213413816/-74.06527519226074/1954/16

(Oh, and yes–I guessed the location before reading the replies.) ;-)

roadman65

The current NJ 139 ramp to US 1 & 9 Truck was not part of the original Skyway and thus was added later.

If you drive under the Skyway at the Tonnelle Circle, you will notice the piers for the NJ 129 to US 1 & 9 Truck ramp differ from those of the Skyway itself.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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