I was noticing that on Interstate 610 around Houston, a freeway that is made to circle a city with tall buildings, has tall buildings along it from freeway induced sprawl like none others.
San Antonio has a built up area along its north end of the I-410 loop, but a few tall buildings built along the service roads. Many other city bypasses have a few tall corporations with builds ten stories or higher, but not a bunch together.
In Houston the area on the west side from I-69 to I-10 has tall buildings arranged in a Downtown like street grid built between square blocks. None built out linearly or parallel to the road. Basically a Downtown area made to duplicate a downtown area from access to it created by a road that was supposed to avoid this type of situation.
Unusual to say the least for a business district bypass.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 09:01:11 AM
I was noticing that on Interstate 610 around Houston, a freeway that is made to circle a city with tall buildings, has tall buildings along it from freeway induced sprawl like none others.
San Antonio has a built up area along its north end of the I-410 loop, but a few tall buildings built along the service roads. Many other city bypasses have a few tall corporations with builds ten stories or higher, but not a bunch together.
In Houston the area on the west side from I-69 to I-10 has tall buildings arranged in a Downtown like street grid built between square blocks. None built out linearly or parallel to the road. Basically a Downtown area made to duplicate a downtown area from access to it created by a road that was supposed to avoid this type of situation.
Unusual to say the least for a business district bypass.
As for Houston, it all started with Williams Tower.
Atlanta has the same situation where there are tall buildings in Buckhead away from the city center.
Anyone who has been to London knows that with the Barbican and Canary Wharf, there is a lot of development away from the city center.
I-405 in WA...
Clayton along I-170 in St Louis. That's the first memory I have as a kid of wondering why there was an isolated group of buildings away from the STL downtown area.
Clusters of high rise towers built in locations outside the traditional city center are nothing new.
The DC area is one of the earliest American examples, with a multitude of high rise clusters outside the historic capital. There's Crystal City and Pentagon City (which seem to be merging together). The same is happening parallel to I-66 with office towers from Roslyn to Arlington. The DC area is pretty de-centralized with such building clusters.
In NYC, Manhattan was the main place to see skyscrapers. Spots over in New Jersey have had some high rises for a long time. They're now growing at a faster pace in Brooklyn.
Los Angeles has multiple zones of skyscrapers. The "Die Hard Building" is in Century City, miles away from Downtown LA.
Of course the Dallas-Fort Worth metro has its multiples of high rise districts. So it's only natural the same thing would be happening in Houston. The downtown zone in Houston has only so much space for high rises. Office towers popped up in the Uptown zone, the Medical Center district, Greenway and other places around the metro. The Woodlands may end up with skyscrapers of its own before long. The Williams Tower by I-610 does stand out for its height. At over 900' it is the tallest building in the US outside a traditional downtown zone.
With major metro areas around the US sucking up population from smaller towns and rural areas this trend of detached skyscraper zones may only grow.
My point is that Beltways now like the IH 610 in the Uptown District are rare to see a Downtown looking cluster. Even on IH 610 in SA, has high rise offices near SA International Airport but not in a downtown type of cluster.
Pentagon and Crystal City in Arlington, VA is clustered with tall buildings but not on a beltway. Ditto for Rosslynn as well. I am quite aware of high rise sprawl as Florida is very active in that. Sarasota is a city that is clustered now with high rise apartments and condos similar to Miami Beach.
The OP is about clusters or typical business districts on a suburban loop interstate.
Tysons for I-495 in the DC area.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 09:01:11 AM
I was noticing that on Interstate 610 around Houston, a freeway that is made to circle a city with tall buildings, has tall buildings along it from freeway induced sprawl like none others.
San Antonio has a built up area along its north end of the I-410 loop, but a few tall buildings built along the service roads. Many other city bypasses have a few tall corporations with builds ten stories or higher, but not a bunch together.
In Houston the area on the west side from I-69 to I-10 has tall buildings arranged in a Downtown like street grid built between square blocks. None built out linearly or parallel to the road. Basically a Downtown area made to duplicate a downtown area from access to it created by a road that was supposed to avoid this type of situation.
Unusual to say the least for a business district bypass.
IMO, it all happened because of the Galleria and oil and gas companies. When those building were built in the late 80's/early 90's, the Galleria area was a mini-city. BP had their old HQ on San Felipe. The Galleria tower itself over the skating rink and mall was a big draw for some companies during the boom. The development ran from Richmond north past San Felipe between Sage and 610 to where Post Oak bends east to meet with 610. The complex around BHP is impressive
I-435 in Overland Park
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 09:01:11 AM
I was noticing that on Interstate 610 around Houston, a freeway that is made to circle a city with tall buildings, has tall buildings along it from freeway induced sprawl like none others.
San Antonio has a built up area along its north end of the I-410 loop, but a few tall buildings built along the service roads. Many other city bypasses have a few tall corporations with builds ten stories or higher, but not a bunch together.
In Houston the area on the west side from I-69 to I-10 has tall buildings arranged in a Downtown like street grid built between square blocks. None built out linearly or parallel to the road. Basically a Downtown area made to duplicate a downtown area from access to it created by a road that was supposed to avoid this type of situation.
Unusual to say the least for a business district bypass.
Well for one thing I-610 never leaves Houston except for the brief trip through Bellaire which is totally surrounded by Houston. So it's not like you are in the suburbs once you get to 610. Beltway 8 does a little better job circling the city and Highway 99 does an even better job. But I've never got the vibe that I wasn't in Houston when I've been on 610.
Btw, Detroit's suburbs have taller buildings in Southfield and Troy and a few other suburbs too.
Toronto has high-rises built everywhere in the suburbs
Boston doesn't have anything huge along I-95/128, but the tallest building along that stretch is the Charles River Building in Burlington. Otherwise, there's some large office buildings in Waltham and that's it.
There's also White Plains, NY along I-287, but I don't think you can see it from the highway.
If we're looking for more examples, as the thread title would suggest, wouldn't that be General Highway Talk?
I-285 north of Atlanta especially near its junctions with I-75 and GA 400.
Quote from: thisdj78 on April 16, 2022, 11:13:40 AM
Clayton along I-170 in St Louis. That's the first memory I have as a kid of wondering why there was an isolated group of buildings away from the STL downtown area.
As does Albuquerque with a cluster of tall buildings (hotels, office, retail, mixed use) along I-40 in the Uptown District, located several miles east of downtown where the city's tallest buildings are located.
Quote from: thisdj78 on April 16, 2022, 11:13:40 AM
Clayton along I-170 in St Louis. That's the first memory I have as a kid of wondering why there was an isolated group of buildings away from the STL downtown area.
Clayton is the county seat of Saint Louis County. Saint Louis is an independent city and not part of Saint Louis County. Perhaps this has something to do with the development.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0672436,-80.8631554,3a,15y,113.42h,90.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUJl4nojvovFsA-0op2d22Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It's not much of a skyline, but Ballantyne near I-485 is one of them. So far it's Charlotte's only example of highrises on the beltway, although we do have SouthPark off of the beltway.
High rises have popped up in Franklin, TN south of Nashville, TN on I-65.
La Défense, which is west of Paris, beyond the ring road. (not Paris, Texas).
(https://i.imgur.com/J9VRebA.jpg)
Houston also had little to no zoning requirements back in the 70s and 80s when much of the area along the 610 West Loop was starting to develop and then booming. You could basically put a 20-story building in a residential neighborhood if you wanted to.
Quote from: thisdj78 on April 16, 2022, 11:13:40 AM
Clayton along I-170 in St Louis.
Calling I-170 a "beltway" is a bit of a stretch.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 17, 2022, 08:41:24 AM
I-435 in Overland Park
Calling those "skyscrapers" is quite a stretch.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 06, 2022, 11:46:11 PM
High rises have popped up in Franklin, TN south of Nashville, TN on I-65.
Calling I-65 a "beltway" simply erroneous.
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on April 16, 2022, 11:13:40 AM
Clayton along I-170 in St Louis.
Calling I-170 a "beltway" is a bit of a stretch.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 17, 2022, 08:41:24 AM
I-435 in Overland Park
Calling those "skyscrapers" is quite a stretch.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 06, 2022, 11:46:11 PM
High rises have popped up in Franklin, TN south of Nashville, TN on I-65.
Calling I-65 a "beltway" simply erroneous.
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called
Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
It's the closest example I could personally recall, besides the name of the freeway is literally Inner-Belt Expressway, had it been extended as originally proposed, it would have formed an inner-beltway:
https://goo.gl/maps/AQrNSkqxKquUEKAa7
Not a beltway but definitely what's supposed to be a bypass, I-405 WA. And of course I'm talking about Bellevue.
Before I reply: Define "skyscraper."
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
I think the emphasis moved from Beltway to around.
Quote from: Road Hog on June 09, 2022, 01:11:48 AM
Before I reply: Define "skyscraper."
The 'modern' definition has then starting at about 300 feet (30 stories), but I don't think they need to be that tall for this thread.
I thought I remember seeing some along 494 in Edina/Bloomington/Minnetonka/Eden Prairie/at least one of those south or west-side Minneapolis suburbs.
Also, near Chicago: aren't there some along the Tri-State Tollway near O'Hare?
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
It's the closest example I could personally recall
If you can't think of anything that would be on-topic for the thread, nothing says you have to post in it. This isn't a quiz.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 09, 2022, 01:51:11 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
It's the closest example I could personally recall
If you can't think of anything that would be on-topic for the thread, nothing says you have to post in it. This isn't a quiz.
Well, as the remaining part of the comment indicated, the highway is technically considered a beltway, just not a complete one. So I stand by it as being on topic.
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 09, 2022, 07:07:16 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 09, 2022, 01:51:11 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
It's the closest example I could personally recall
If you can't think of anything that would be on-topic for the thread, nothing says you have to post in it. This isn't a quiz.
Well, as the remaining part of the comment indicated, the highway is technically considered a beltway, just not a complete one. So I stand by it as being on topic.
I think you're as wrong as can be, but your tenacity is both admirable and amusing.
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2022, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 09, 2022, 07:07:16 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 09, 2022, 01:51:11 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
It's the closest example I could personally recall
If you can't think of anything that would be on-topic for the thread, nothing says you have to post in it. This isn't a quiz.
Well, as the remaining part of the comment indicated, the highway is technically considered a beltway, just not a complete one. So I stand by it as being on topic.
I think you're as wrong as can be, but your tenacity is both admirable and amusing.
If I'm wrong, then explain the "Inner-Belt" designation of I-170 then?
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 09, 2022, 07:27:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 09, 2022, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 09, 2022, 07:07:16 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 09, 2022, 01:51:11 AM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: thisdj78 on June 08, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
There's no mention of beltway in my comment...only that it is a high rise district located a distance away from downtown St Louis.
It was the third reply in a thread called Skyscrapers on Beltway around Big City, in which the OP's example is along a beltway.
It's the closest example I could personally recall
If you can't think of anything that would be on-topic for the thread, nothing says you have to post in it. This isn't a quiz.
Well, as the remaining part of the comment indicated, the highway is technically considered a beltway, just not a complete one. So I stand by it as being on topic.
I think you're as wrong as can be, but your tenacity is both admirable and amusing.
If I'm wrong, then explain the "Inner-Belt" designation of I-170 then?
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Note that kphoger said it was a stretch and not the "simply erroneous" designation that he gave to I-65. I-170 is circumferential, not radial; the reason it isn't generally considered a beltway is because other segments (notably a southern extension) don't exist, not because of any property of what does exist.
I do consider the freeway segment of NH 101 part of a third beltway of Boston (not that it qualifies for this thread due to lack of skyscrapers), although that might be because I'm seeing Hampton-Manchester-Milford-Leominster-Worcester-Providence-Fall River-New Bedford-Wareham as the full third beltway, which only has one missing segment.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on June 09, 2022, 01:38:47 AM
Also, near Chicago: aren't there some along the Tri-State Tollway near O'Hare?
I'm not very familiar with the Tri-State, as I hardly ever had reason to use it when I lived in the area. But you might be thinking of the Norwood Park area, along the Kennedy (not a beltway): https://goo.gl/maps/Amv6BJqjtimjEfzo7
Quote from: 1 on June 09, 2022, 08:34:07 AM
Note that kphoger said it was a stretch and not the "simply erroneous" designation that he gave to I-65. I-170 is circumferential, not radial; the reason it isn't generally considered a beltway is because other segments (notably a southern extension) don't exist, not because of any property of what does exist.
I do consider the freeway segment of NH 101 part of a third beltway of Boston (not that it qualifies for this thread due to lack of skyscrapers), although that might be because I'm seeing Hampton-Manchester-Milford-Leominster-Worcester-Providence-Fall River-New Bedford-Wareham as the full third beltway, which only has one missing segment.
Fair enough. With that said, my comment wasn't off base or off topic as others have alluded to.
Houston seems to even have areas with tall buildings on its middle beltway (assuming the Grand Parkway ever is completed) Beltway 8. Just south of I-10 and the junction with Westheimer, there's a pretty large cluster of tall buildings.
That's the City West Place office complex. The office towers there are decent sized, technically tall enough to be considered high rise towers (more than 10 floors). That district is pretty modest compared to the Uptown area off I-610. But it has room to grow.
True story: I was driving some out-of-state visitors around Houston and as we passed by the Williams Tower, and they commented: You have an impressive-looking downtown." I replied back: "That's not downtown Houston, that's just the Galleria district."
And that's a big deal with a lot of visitors to Houston; it's simply unthinkable for them to see a 900+ feet tall skyscraper outside of any downtown. So just based off visitors' reaction alone, I would believe that no other city in North America has what Houston has.
Quote from: jgb191 on July 15, 2022, 12:55:20 AM
True story: I was driving some out-of-state visitors around Houston and as we passed by the Williams Tower, and they commented: You have an impressive-looking downtown." I replied back: "That's not downtown Houston, that's just the Galleria district."
And that's a big deal with a lot of visitors to Houston; it's simply unthinkable for them to see a 900+ feet tall skyscraper outside of any downtown. So just based off visitors' reaction alone, I would believe that no other city in North America has what Houston has.
By design, probably–most other cities that size have some kind of zoning regulation that would encourage large buildings like that to be built downtown rather than elsewhere. Houston famously has no zoning.
Dallas has the Park Central stuff at I-635 and US-75.
Quote from: jgb191 on July 15, 2022, 12:55:20 AM
True story: I was driving some out-of-state visitors around Houston and as we passed by the Williams Tower, and they commented: You have an impressive-looking downtown." I replied back: "That's not downtown Houston, that's just the Galleria district."
And that's a big deal with a lot of visitors to Houston; it's simply unthinkable for them to see a 900+ feet tall skyscraper outside of any downtown. So just based off visitors' reaction alone, I would believe that no other city in North America has what Houston has.
It might not be quite like the Williams Tower on the west 610 loop, but I-405 in Bellevue (WA) has quite a few towers alongside of it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2022, 07:18:42 AM
Quote from: jgb191 on July 15, 2022, 12:55:20 AM
True story: I was driving some out-of-state visitors around Houston and as we passed by the Williams Tower, and they commented: You have an impressive-looking downtown." I replied back: "That's not downtown Houston, that's just the Galleria district."
And that's a big deal with a lot of visitors to Houston; it's simply unthinkable for them to see a 900+ feet tall skyscraper outside of any downtown. So just based off visitors' reaction alone, I would believe that no other city in North America has what Houston has.
By design, probably–most other cities that size have some kind of zoning regulation that would encourage large buildings like that to be built downtown rather than elsewhere. Houston famously has no zoning.
And then there are cities that have zoning to encourage developments like that both downtown and elsewhere: Vancouver. Across Metro Vancouver, there are at least a dozen separate skylines. But, then, I don't know what anyone would expect when trying to preserve as much land as you can with both water to your west, a border to your south (rural farmland WA), and tight mountains to your east and north. Naturally, you go up. Well, sometimes; there is plenty of sprawl in Vancouver, too. But skyscrapers are all over the place.
Edit: to make it clear, Houston is not alone in North America regarding downtown-esque skylines outside of downtown. In addition to Vancouver, similarly-massive developments are common in the GTA (Toronto) as well.
Exhibit A: Metrotown in Burnaby...this is not downtown Vancouver, and several other skylines in the Metro Vancouver area are similarly impressive. The last photo I took is crap, but it gets the point across...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52217255177_c06ca15742_k.jpg)
Burnaby Metrotown Skyline (https://flic.kr/p/2nyg5K4) by Jacob Root (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62537709@N03/), on Flickr
Houston's lack of traditional zoning laws doesn't mean the city has an anything goes attitude with development. The reality is quite far from that. The city does have subdivision ordinances, which accomplish many of the same things as traditional zoning. Houston also has deed restrictions which are enforced on the city-level; in most places deed restrictions are enforced privately, usually through home owners associations. The combination of subdivision ordinances and deed restrictions prevents someone from placing a multi-unit apartment building within a tract of identical looking single family homes. Houston has a bunch of other ordinances and rules in its city planning policy book.
DFW has "skyscrapers" (however you define them) all over the place in the closer-in metro. For my post's sake, I'll say 10+ stories. There are clusters of them in Richardson, Plano, Frisco and elsewhere. There are some here and there along LBJ (the North Dallas Bank Building off Preston and 635 is a prominent one), but concentrations are random and seem tied to planned developments.