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[MaxConcrete]

The meeting video is now online (a day early) and the other online items including presentation should be online tomorrow. https://www.drive380.com/coitfm1827
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL8-adbE5U8

The video is long. The only difference in the options being considered as compared to the recommended alignment of the feasibility study are at the east and west ends.



At the east end, the video narration mentions that alignment D, which is recommended by the feasibility study, will be more expensive to build than alignment C, and D will have greater environmental impact than C. That leads me to think alignment C is probably going to be favored. Alignment C does cause a problem with interfacing into the Spur 399 connection, which is the purple section in the map below. If C is selected, I'm thinking Spur 399 will need to be realigned on the east side of the airport. A separate study will consider Spur 399.

The video mentions that the E alignment has been refined since the feasibility study, which suggests it is a sure thing.

On the west end, the video does not mention any problems with A or B, but the City of McKinney favors B.

[Bobby5280]

A grade separation in the existing corridor at the Coit Road intersection is a must to prevent a major bottleneck there. Eastbound and westbound flyover ramps to connect to and from the B-E-C freeway alignment should be part of that grade separation just east of Coit Road.

The intersection of Coit Road and US-380 looks like it will be turned into a freeway interchange since all the freeway route alternatives run over that spot. The US-380 intersection with the Dallas North Tollway is basically the starting point of the whole she-bang. The freeway upgrade should be able to stretch to the Coit Road intersection fairly easy and go maybe a couple miles west of the DNT toward Denton.

The bigger question is what will happen at major intersections along US-380 closer to McKinney and Denton? Several grade separations along the way are being discussed and have been illustrated. The end result could bring those parts of US-380 closer to "Jersey Freeway" standards. But really that's only going to be able to work as an interim solution. Remember commuters in 'Jersey have more options than driving on US-1. Services like commuter rail are far less developed in DFW.

This area North of Dallas and Fort Worth is just going to keep adding more and more new residents and businesses, putting ever more strain on the main arterials like US-380, even if there is a freeway (or toll road) bypass around McKinney and Denton. There may be plenty of opposition to upgrade US-380 to an Interstate quality freeway thru the middle of McKinney and Denton. But as more and more traffic piles onto that route it will force more and more upgrades. That means more grade separations, removals of driveways, more side streets being cut off and/or adding segments of frontage roads. 100% limited access on US-380 could be an eventual development, even if it takes 20-30 years.

[Road Hog]

Personally I think the Sam Rayburn needs to be extended past Airport Road to Princeton. I don't think 380 alone will be enough to serve traffic there in a very few years.

[Bobby5280]

Yeah, extending the Sam Rayburn toll road farther East to meet up with the US-380 corridor in Princeton would be a good idea. Long term: I think the US-380 corridor needs an Interstate upgrade between McKinney and Greenville, where US-380 meets up with I-30. The TX-121 toll road already feeds into the US-380 corridor to some degree. An extension to the toll road would move the traffic more efficiently and get more of it off the surface streets.

There are some obstacles just after the point where the TX-121 toll road ends, Spur 399 really, as it turns into McDonald Street. There is a large, former landfill near the corner of McDonald Street and the recently 4-laned FM-546/Harry McKillop Blvd. Just South of the landfill: the Heard Natural Science Museum and Wildlife Sanctuary. And then there is a bunch of McMansions and park land South of that. Any possible freeway/toll-road alignment has to somehow thread its way North of the former landfill and then somehow get around the airport and over to US-380.

[MaxConcrete]

TxDOT has posted materials for the Spur 399 public meeting.
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/Spur399PublicMeeting

This is part of the EIS process in which the two previously identified alternatives are being studied in more detail. There's no news in this meeting. However, the information provided makes me think there is a very high probability that the orange alignment, east of the airport, will be selected, especially because the City of McKinney is "strongly opposed to a freeway west of the airport". However, another influence not mentioned in the materials is the alignment of US 380 freeway north of the existing US 380. It probably would be desirable for Spur 399 to connect to the US 380 freeway at the point where the US 380 freeway will veer north. (See map shown 25 seconds into the presentation video.)

Both options are expensive, possibly due to 2+ miles of bridges on each option.

Purple option, west of airport: 4.4 miles long, 117 acres ROW required, $601 million. It will displace a large Amazon distribution facility.
Orange option, east of the airport: 6.25 miles long, 233 acres ROW required, $706 million.

The alignment recommendation is expected in summer 2022.

[MaxConcrete]

The agenda for next week's TxDOT commission meeting lists eminent domain for 130 parcels for US 380 in Collin County. This is by far the most eminent domain action on a specific route that I've seen in a single month. This means the project is moving full speed ahead. I'm assuming that all the parcels are east of McKinney where the project is already funded and the route is finalized. When the specific parcels are identified (after the meeting), I'll update this post.

See pages 9-12
https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/commission/2021/1130/agenda.pdf

UPDATE: the details about these US 380 parcels are now available, and it turns out that nearly all of the parcels are along the existing US 380 through the city of Princeton. This is not the alignment of the planned freeway, since the freeway will be on a bypass north of the city. These parcels are mostly very small, 500 to 2000 square feet, to widen the corridor by about 15 feet. This is surprising, since there is plenty of space available to add a third lane in each direction if needed. Maybe this strip of land is to accommodate a shared use trail, to extend the trail that already exists east of North 4th Street. This would a very large number of parcels to acquire for a shared use trail.

[MaxConcrete]

The recommended alignment for US 380 in Denton County is now posted on the meeting web site
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380DentonPM3
Presentation with maps
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0135-10-061_US%20380%20Denton%20County%20Feasibility%20Study_PM%203%20Presentation_FINAL.pdf

Good news!! The existing US 380 (blue option) is the recommended alignment. In fact, a section of the blue option that was shown to run just south of the existing US 380 at Spiritas Ranch has been shifted to be back on the existing alignment. This means the recommended alignment is the straightest and most efficient possible. The only downside is that substantial right-of-way clearance will be needed, mostly fuel stations, convenience stores, fast food restaurants and strip centers. No residential displacements are needed, which is why it remained feasible.

The other alternatives considered (yellow, purple and orange) were ridiculous, but we've seen TxDOT select highly inefficient alignments for other freeways, so there was no assurance the logical choice would be made.

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

The YouTube presentation says that work will likely start with the connection to Loop 288 (which is a greenfield route), then proceed to build the frontage roads, and eventually the main lanes.

[Road Hog]

Now that the route has been identified, look for a building boom of more strip developments along existing 380 within the ROW footprint as landowners look to "cash in."

[bwana39]

Now that the route has been identified, look for a building boom of more strip developments along existing 380 within the ROW footprint as landowners look to "cash in."

This thing should be freeway all the way from I-30 (Greenville) to Decatur (US-287).
.

[kernals12]

Now that the route has been identified, look for a building boom of more strip developments along existing 380 within the ROW footprint as landowners look to "cash in."

At least Texas has high property taxes that penalize speculators.

[Bobby5280]

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

Yeah, the suburbs North of Dallas and Fort Worth just keep growing. With or without an upgraded US-380 and a parallel super highway a few miles North (the teal corridor on Page 14) the new housing subdivisions are just going to keep plopping in that region, gobbling up big chunks of land quickly.

Much of FM-428 between the Denton Loop and FM-2153 is undeveloped. But it's easy to see the beginnings of a growth trend there. In a few years it may look like areas around US-287 Northwest of Fort Worth: blowing up like crazy with new housing. TX DOT had better at least secure enough ROW so FM-428 can be upgraded into a wide surface street with 2 or 3 lanes in each direction. It's just a 2-lane route currently.

The Teal corridor on Page 14 of the PDF looks like it will be part of the larger DFW outer loop. It looks like it would tie into the Colin County Outer Loop.

If TX DOT can pull this off US-380 will be a pretty good corridor between Denton and the Dallas North Tollway. The more tricky thing is what will be done with US-380 going East into McKinney. It looks like the final version of that corridor may be quite a bit more curvy.

[Brian556]

The recommended alignment for US 380 in Denton County is now posted on the meeting web site
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380DentonPM3
Presentation with maps
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0135-10-061_US%20380%20Denton%20County%20Feasibility%20Study_PM%203%20Presentation_FINAL.pdf

Good news!! The existing US 380 (blue option) is the recommended alignment. In fact, a section of the blue option that was shown to run just south of the existing US 380 at Spiritas Ranch has been shifted to be back on the existing alignment. This means the recommended alignment is the straightest and most efficient possible. The only downside is that substantial right-of-way clearance will be needed, mostly fuel stations, convenience stores, fast food restaurants and strip centers. No residential displacements are needed, which is why it remained feasible.

The other alternatives considered (yellow, purple and orange) were ridiculous, but we've seen TxDOT select highly inefficient alignments for other freeways, so there was no assurance the logical choice would be made.

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

The YouTube presentation says that work will likely start with the connection to Loop 288 (which is a greenfield route), then proceed to build the frontage roads, and eventually the main lanes.

The blue option was the only logical choice. I sure is nice to see common sense prevail.

[kernals12]

I'm glad northern DFW is getting a new east-west freeway that isn't tolled.

[bwana39]

Now that the route has been identified, look for a building boom of more strip developments along existing 380 within the ROW footprint as landowners look to "cash in."

At least Texas has high property taxes that penalize speculators.

In some cases yes, in others no. You can still get agricultural exemptions on much of it and put straw owners in the houses and claim homestead exemptions. Even with high property taxes, you don't plan on holding them long enough for the taxes to matter.

[kernals12]

Now that the route has been identified, look for a building boom of more strip developments along existing 380 within the ROW footprint as landowners look to "cash in."

At least Texas has high property taxes that penalize speculators.

In some cases yes, in others no. You can still get agricultural exemptions on much of it and put straw owners in the houses and claim homestead exemptions. Even with high property taxes, you don't plan on holding them long enough for the taxes to matter.

The Cost of those property taxes are capitalized in the value of the property, so it does matter

[Plutonic Panda]

This is excellent news but I still think they should build the teal outer loop alignment.

[thisdj78]

This is excellent news but I still think they should build the teal outer loop alignment.

They will be building both the 380 freeway and the outer loop.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is excellent news but I still think they should build the teal outer loop alignment.

They will be building both the 380 freeway and the outer loop.

Oh very nice I had missed that.

[bwana39]

Now that the route has been identified, look for a building boom of more strip developments along existing 380 within the ROW footprint as landowners look to "cash in."

At least Texas has high property taxes that penalize speculators.

In some cases yes, in others no. You can still get agricultural exemptions on much of it and put straw owners in the houses and claim homestead exemptions. Even with high property taxes, you don't plan on holding them long enough for the taxes to matter.

The Cost of those property taxes are capitalized in the value of the property, so it does matter

Yes, you capitalize the tax expense IF you make the sale. If you are speculating, your property may not be in the actual ROW and the TAX EXPENSE adds nothing to the value of the property that may or may not increase in value.

[DJStephens]

The recommended alignment for US 380 in Denton County is now posted on the meeting web site
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380DentonPM3
Presentation with maps
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0135-10-061_US%20380%20Denton%20County%20Feasibility%20Study_PM%203%20Presentation_FINAL.pdf

Good news!! The existing US 380 (blue option) is the recommended alignment. In fact, a section of the blue option that was shown to run just south of the existing US 380 at Spiritas Ranch has been shifted to be back on the existing alignment. This means the recommended alignment is the straightest and most efficient possible. The only downside is that substantial right-of-way clearance will be needed, mostly fuel stations, convenience stores, fast food restaurants and strip centers. No residential displacements are needed, which is why it remained feasible.

The other alternatives considered (yellow, purple and orange) were ridiculous, but we've seen TxDOT select highly inefficient alignments for other freeways, so there was no assurance the logical choice would be made.

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

The YouTube presentation says that work will likely start with the connection to Loop 288 (which is a greenfield route), then proceed to build the frontage roads, and eventually the main lanes.

The blue option was the only logical choice. I sure is nice to see common sense prevail.

Agreed.  Have no dog in this fight, but it makes sense to upgrade what they already have.   Some of the turns on the orange and purple alignments were crazy.  What is the "Spiritas Ranch" - some kind of agricultural holdout in a rapidly sub-urbanizing area?   

[Road Hog]

The recommended alignment for US 380 in Denton County is now posted on the meeting web site
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380DentonPM3
Presentation with maps
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0135-10-061_US%20380%20Denton%20County%20Feasibility%20Study_PM%203%20Presentation_FINAL.pdf

Good news!! The existing US 380 (blue option) is the recommended alignment. In fact, a section of the blue option that was shown to run just south of the existing US 380 at Spiritas Ranch has been shifted to be back on the existing alignment. This means the recommended alignment is the straightest and most efficient possible. The only downside is that substantial right-of-way clearance will be needed, mostly fuel stations, convenience stores, fast food restaurants and strip centers. No residential displacements are needed, which is why it remained feasible.

The other alternatives considered (yellow, purple and orange) were ridiculous, but we've seen TxDOT select highly inefficient alignments for other freeways, so there was no assurance the logical choice would be made.

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

The YouTube presentation says that work will likely start with the connection to Loop 288 (which is a greenfield route), then proceed to build the frontage roads, and eventually the main lanes.

The blue option was the only logical choice. I sure is nice to see common sense prevail.

Agreed.  Have no dog in this fight, but it makes sense to upgrade what they already have.   Some of the turns on the orange and purple alignments were crazy.  What is the "Spiritas Ranch" - some kind of agricultural holdout in a rapidly sub-urbanizing area?

It's a big housing development planned on the Little Elm side (south side) of 380.

https://starlocalmedia.com/littleelmjournal/news/little-elm-council-approves-agreement-for-2-100-home-spiritas-ranch-project/article_86f0bff6-6737-11eb-9694-978000754f66.html

It's a weird "no man's land" area: Little Elm city limits, Denton ISD, Aubrey mailing address and Prosper landline phone numbers.

ADD: I have a full kennel of dogs in this fight. I want dirt to start turning yesterday. I've noticed just in the last six months a huge increase in traffic in my area. It shouldn't take an hour to get from McKinney to Denton.

[In_Correct]

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

Yeah, the suburbs North of Dallas and Fort Worth just keep growing. With or without an upgraded US-380 and a parallel super highway a few miles North (the teal corridor on Page 14) the new housing subdivisions are just going to keep plopping in that region, gobbling up big chunks of land quickly.

Much of FM-428 between the Denton Loop and FM-2153 is undeveloped. But it's easy to see the beginnings of a growth trend there. In a few years it may look like areas around US-287 Northwest of Fort Worth: blowing up like crazy with new housing. TX DOT had better at least secure enough ROW so FM-428 can be upgraded into a wide surface street with 2 or 3 lanes in each direction. It's just a 2-lane route currently.

The Teal corridor on Page 14 of the PDF looks like it will be part of the larger DFW outer loop. It looks like it would tie into the Colin County Outer Loop.

If TX DOT can pull this off US-380 will be a pretty good corridor between Denton and the Dallas North Tollway. The more tricky thing is what will be done with US-380 going East into McKinney. It looks like the final version of that corridor may be quite a bit more curvy.

In a few years it may look like areas around US-287 Northwest of Fort Worth: blowing up like crazy with new housing. TX DOT had better at least secure enough ROW so FM-428 can be upgraded into a wide surface street with 2 or 3 lanes in each direction. It's just a 2-lane route currently.

Every Highway in Collin County, Denton County, and Wise County needs to be widened yesterday.

I'm glad northern DFW is getting a new east-west freeway that isn't tolled.

They ought to keep every thing simple and build the Toll Roads.

The recommended alignment for US 380 in Denton County is now posted on the meeting web site
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380DentonPM3
Presentation with maps
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0135-10-061_US%20380%20Denton%20County%20Feasibility%20Study_PM%203%20Presentation_FINAL.pdf

Good news!! The existing US 380 (blue option) is the recommended alignment. In fact, a section of the blue option that was shown to run just south of the existing US 380 at Spiritas Ranch has been shifted to be back on the existing alignment. This means the recommended alignment is the straightest and most efficient possible. The only downside is that substantial right-of-way clearance will be needed, mostly fuel stations, convenience stores, fast food restaurants and strip centers. No residential displacements are needed, which is why it remained feasible.

The other alternatives considered (yellow, purple and orange) were ridiculous, but we've seen TxDOT select highly inefficient alignments for other freeways, so there was no assurance the logical choice would be made.

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

The YouTube presentation says that work will likely start with the connection to Loop 288 (which is a greenfield route), then proceed to build the frontage roads, and eventually the main lanes.

The blue option was the only logical choice. I sure is nice to see common sense prevail.

Agreed.  Have no dog in this fight, but it makes sense to upgrade what they already have.   Some of the turns on the orange and purple alignments were crazy.  What is the "Spiritas Ranch" - some kind of agricultural holdout in a rapidly sub-urbanizing area?   

Ranch is a Generic Designation in Texas.

The recommended alignment for US 380 in Denton County is now posted on the meeting web site
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/US380DentonPM3
Presentation with maps
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0135-10-061_US%20380%20Denton%20County%20Feasibility%20Study_PM%203%20Presentation_FINAL.pdf

Good news!! The existing US 380 (blue option) is the recommended alignment. In fact, a section of the blue option that was shown to run just south of the existing US 380 at Spiritas Ranch has been shifted to be back on the existing alignment. This means the recommended alignment is the straightest and most efficient possible. The only downside is that substantial right-of-way clearance will be needed, mostly fuel stations, convenience stores, fast food restaurants and strip centers. No residential displacements are needed, which is why it remained feasible.

The other alternatives considered (yellow, purple and orange) were ridiculous, but we've seen TxDOT select highly inefficient alignments for other freeways, so there was no assurance the logical choice would be made.

The outer loop alignment (teal) will continue to be studied and is now slated to connect to IH 35. It appears that the route 428 alignment has been removed from consideration as a freeway. That's disappointing, because I think it will be needed.

The YouTube presentation says that work will likely start with the connection to Loop 288 (which is a greenfield route), then proceed to build the frontage roads, and eventually the main lanes.

The blue option was the only logical choice. I sure is nice to see common sense prevail.

Agreed.  Have no dog in this fight, but it makes sense to upgrade what they already have.   Some of the turns on the orange and purple alignments were crazy.  What is the "Spiritas Ranch" - some kind of agricultural holdout in a rapidly sub-urbanizing area?

It's a big housing development planned on the Little Elm side (south side) of 380.

https://starlocalmedia.com/littleelmjournal/news/little-elm-council-approves-agreement-for-2-100-home-spiritas-ranch-project/article_86f0bff6-6737-11eb-9694-978000754f66.html

It's a weird "no man's land" area: Little Elm city limits, Denton ISD, Aubrey mailing address and Prosper landline phone numbers.

ADD: I have a full kennel of dogs in this fight. I want dirt to start turning yesterday. I've noticed just in the last six months a huge increase in traffic in my area. It shouldn't take an hour to get from McKinney to Denton.

It's a weird "no man's land" area: Little Elm city limits, Denton ISD, Aubrey mailing address and Prosper landline phone numbers.

This reminds me of the area between Denton and Lewisville where the area is known by billions and billions of names. Even the same streets have different names. These include but are not limited to: Corinth, Flower Mound, Hickory Creek, Highland Village, and Lake Dallas. I simply refer to the area nearest to Denton as Corinth and the area nearest to Lewisville as Flower Mound.

[bwana39]

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/construction-begins-monday-three-year-project-improve-traffic-us-380/287-b0936e3b-312a-4c1a-993d-146c42c34381

Getting started on the Denton County portion.

[Bobby5280]

That should be a good start. Once that segment gets going I think it will create increasing pressure to get the additional segments built thru or around Denton and McKinney.

[kernals12]

I thought that was just upgrading the road to a divided highway. I didn't think they were already getting started on the freeway. I would've thought such a project would be bigger nees.