Slate: 'New Jersey ban on self-service gasoline: The madness must stop'

[J N Winkler]

Amen, brother!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/09/18/new_jersey_self_service_gasoline_the_madness_must_stop.html

That said, the article is really light on explanations as to why mandatory full-serve persists in New Jersey in spite of wide dislike from out-of-state drivers as well as technical problems, such as the tendency of pumps to shut off prematurely for some tank designs.  If there have been efforts in the past to repeal mandatory full-serve--and I would be very surprised if there haven't been--their stories remain obscure.

[oscar]

As the Slate article notes, Oregon has the same policy.

One additional problem Oregon has that New Jersey might not -- self-service is available only on a members-only "cardlock" system.  In some isolated rural areas, that means you can't buy gas at all without the member card, since there isn't enough population to support an attended gas pump.  That can leave out-of-town motorists SOL should they need gas in the sometimes long gaps between towns with attended gas pumps, unless a member happens to be there at the pump and can use their card to fill your tank. 

In Pelly's Crossing YT, I did find a member at the cardlock pump, and paid him cash to pump C$50 of gas into my truck.  (Yukon Territory doesn't prohibit non-cardlock self-serve pumps, it just doesn't have them everywhere you need them.)  In Mitchell OR, I wasn't so lucky, and almost ran out of gas for that reason, though I was able to drive a mostly downhill stretch of US 26 down to Prineville and limp into a gas station on fumes.

I make only modest efforts to avoid New Jersey gas pumps, since the low NJ gas tax offsets the hassle of waiting for an attendant.

[agentsteel53]

I've pumped gas plenty of times myself in both Oregon and New Jersey.  find a busy enough station and you can take care of business before anyone notices you.

[roadman65]

I got news for you, most people here in Florida would love to have full serve again! 

The whole problem is that the Unions are strong in New Jersey, which is why there are not too many Wal Mart Supercenters in the Garden State.   49 other states have full service WalMarts with supermarkets, but NJ does not.   They are so strong they even scare WalMart the one store that many have been fighting for years to not let build in their neighborhood, but have lost dramatically! 

True, agent that most will not care if you "do their job" and would a cop actually arrest you if you did anyway?

[Dr Frankenstein]

None of the several gas stations in my home city is self-serve. We might have the same rule at the municipal level or something.

So... *shrug* I guess I'm used to it; it certainly doesn't bother me in NJ.

[agentsteel53]

I got news for you, most people here in Florida would love to have full serve again! 

I feel like that would be a need that certain businesses would be happy to supply, for 20c/gal or thereabouts.

even in "other 48" states, I occasionally bump into a full-serve station - or, at least, a station which offers the possibility of full-serve, along with self-serve.

that said - if the reason Florida residents want full serve is because they're elderly and mobility-impaired: is there a Florida law which says that station attendants must provide full service, at self-serve price, to anyone with a disabled plate/placard?  CA has a law like that.

[Brandon]

that said - if the reason Florida residents want full serve is because they're elderly and mobility-impaired: is there a Florida law which says that station attendants must provide full service, at self-serve price, to anyone with a disabled plate/placard?  CA has a law like that.

Most states have laws like that, IIRC.  Illinois does.

[roadman65]

Actually its the younger generation that want someone to pump gas.   Many girls who are in their 20s wish full serve would be the norm here.    I agree NJ should have self serve, but then again you are talking to one of the states that never went 65 mph either until years later.  In fact they and CT were the two last states that allowed a higher limit than 55 in this great nation of ours.

[oscar]

I agree NJ should have self serve, but then again you are talking to one of the states that never went 65 mph either until years later.  In fact they and CT were the two last states that allowed a higher limit than 55 in this great nation of ours.

Don't forget HI, the very last state (in 2002) to abandon the 55mph maximum limit, and unlike NJ and CT, still doesn't have anything posted for more than 60.

[1995hoo]

I got news for you, most people here in Florida would love to have full serve again! 

I feel like that would be a need that certain businesses would be happy to supply, for 20c/gal or thereabouts.

even in "other 48" states, I occasionally bump into a full-serve station - or, at least, a station which offers the possibility of full-serve, along with self-serve.

that said - if the reason Florida residents want full serve is because they're elderly and mobility-impaired: is there a Florida law which says that station attendants must provide full service, at self-serve price, to anyone with a disabled plate/placard?  CA has a law like that.

Virginia has that law but allows the gas station an exception if only one employee is on duty–in that situation, the employee may refuse to assist the handicapped motorist because it would mean leaving the place where the cash register is. Of course, the gas station I use most often only ever has one employee on duty (in a small booth).

I only know one person who uses full-serve gas, the mother of a college friend of mine from McKenney, Virginia. She'll actually drive 20 miles out of her way if necessary because she flat-out refuses to pump her own gas. I have to say I don't understand that. I try to avoid stopping for gas in New Jersey or at the few stations I've seen in Pennsylvania that don't allow self-serve, primarily because I don't like the way the attendants drop the gas cap against the side of the car and the like, but I won't drive out of my way to try to avoid it because that's just a waste of gas and money. To me that's like the guy I know who routinely drives 20 miles from Falls Church, Virginia, out to Manassas to buy gas because he contends it's cheaper there. Big deal. He'll burn over a gallon roundtrip. If it's 10¢ a gallon cheaper, when gas is over $3 a gallon he'd have to buy over 30 gallons of gas to make up for the gallon he wastes driving out there and back (not to mention the wasted time sitting in traffic).

The flip side of that is that my parents talk about when they lived in Charlottesville back before I was born (my father was a UVA law student at the time and my mother taught public school), their friends all ridiculed them for buying self-serve gas, to which my father retorted that they were saving a substantial amount per fillup by doing so. Funny how times change.

[bugo]

If I were to visit Oregon or New Jersey I would find a large gas station and park away from the store and pump the gas myself.  I don't want some pump jockey scratching up my car, spilling gas all over it, and having access to my credit card.

[jeffandnicole]

The whole problem is that the Unions are strong in New Jersey, which is why there are not too many Wal Mart Supercenters in the Garden State.   49 other states have full service WalMarts with supermarkets, but NJ does not.   They are so strong they even scare WalMart the one store that many have been fighting for years to not let build in their neighborhood, but have lost dramatically! 

I'm not sure where you get your info, but the managers, employees, and customers of the 2 Super Walmarts in Deptford, NJ, the Super Walmart in Turnersville, NJ, the Super Walmart in Vineland, NJ, the Super Walmart in Neptune, NJ, among others, will disagree with you.

And the union issue surely doesn't apply to gas stations; very few of which have employees in a union.

[DSS5]

I definitely wouldn't allow someone else to pump my gas. First, you can't "lock" modern gas pumps in my old car's gas tank, you have to be holding the nozzle at an angle while continuously holding a handle. Second, it will not cut off when full, so you have to listen very carefully for the sound to change. A station attendant would probably not do either of these. So I'd have to waste time it explaining it and gas would probably be dribbled all over my car.

Third, I do NOT like having my credit card in someone else's hands or out of view, I pay restaurant checks in cash as much as possible for this reason (unless it's pay at the register). And thinking about it now, my card is probably a lot safer in the hands of a waiter/waitress than it is in the hands of some teenage/junkie professional gas pumper.

[Compulov]

Pretty much since I've been driving, I've always frequented the same station whenever I've needed gas (that particular station has changed over the years as I've moved, but I always pick one I like and stick with it). Thus, the employees get to know me and don't bother me if I decide to pump it myself (if nothing else, I have PA plates now so I figure if anyone ever gives me shit -- which I have gotten before from some attendants -- I play dumb and say "Oh, I'm from a state that allows self-service. Sorry."). I don't actively discourage the attendant if he or she comes over to pump, but if they're busy, I just do it myself. The QuickChek I usually fill up at often has Trenton and Lawrence cops pulling in, and I've never gotten even a glance while standing at the pump. I'd imagine if I managed to somehow burn the station down that maybe there'd be a problem, but I think you'd need to be pretty damn stupid (talented?) to manage that with the number of safety systems these days.

[PHLBOS]

I definitely wouldn't allow someone else to pump my gas.

Good luck trying that in either NJ or OR.  Despite what's been stated on this thread; you're attempting to do such could either involve your getting fined (if not arrested) and/or refusal of service.  If your car's on fumes (left of E) and the latter happens; limping to a station in neighboring state may not be an option.

While I do agree that the law in NJ (& OR) is stupid and a time-consuming process; one may wind up wasting even more time attempting to beat or flout the system, as it were.

First, you can't "lock" modern gas pumps in my old car's gas tank, you have to be holding the nozzle at an angle while continuously holding a handle.

In MA, one has to hold the nozzle while fueling anyway.  Which means that if you want to squeegie (sp?) your windshield; you can't do it yourself while refueling.

Second, it will not cut off when full, so you have to listen very carefully for the sound to change. A station attendant would probably not do either of these. So I'd have to waste time it explaining it and gas would probably be dribbled all over my car.

In my experiences (23 years) in NJ; many of the hoses cut off before the tank is full; so spillage due to overflows aren't an issue and my experiences w/such includes fueling a 1976 Ford LTD during much of the 1990s and early 2000s so the old car argument doesn't hold water here.

Third, I do NOT like having my credit card in someone else's hands or out of view

Most if not all of the NJ stations I've gone to now have the credit card reader is located right at the pump.  My card's usually been handed right back to me within one minute. 

My biggest beef with full-service in NJ is that many (though not all) of the attendants barely speak a word of English.  I know that it's not politically correct to say this but, but if one is to be employed in a job that involves some interaction with the public (customer); you better learn to speak the language.  I realize that this alone is another subject for another thread.

[Compulov]

My biggest beef with full-service in NJ is that many (though not all) of the attendants barely speak a word of English.  I know that it's not politically correct to say this but, but if one is to be employed in a job that involves some interaction with the public (customer); you better learn to speak the language.  I realize that this alone is another subject for another thread.

If you have the opportunity, seek out stations attached to Wawa, QuickChek, grocery stores or warehouse clubs. I've found they tend to hire native-speakers. To be honest, I don't care if you speak English or not. So long as you understand "Fill 'er up, regular", but I know this is a problem for some people.

[roadman65]

The whole problem is that the Unions are strong in New Jersey, which is why there are not too many Wal Mart Supercenters in the Garden State.   49 other states have full service WalMarts with supermarkets, but NJ does not.   They are so strong they even scare WalMart the one store that many have been fighting for years to not let build in their neighborhood, but have lost dramatically! 

I'm not sure where you get your info, but the managers, employees, and customers of the 2 Super Walmarts in Deptford, NJ, the Super Walmart in Turnersville, NJ, the Super Walmart in Vineland, NJ, the Super Walmart in Neptune, NJ, among others, will disagree with you.

And the union issue surely doesn't apply to gas stations; very few of which have employees in a union.

Well that may be now, but not when those of European descent (not Indians or Muslims with the turbins) pumped your gas.  Just so you know, back in the 90's when the pump card readers were first installed at pumps, I suggested to an attendant that his station should get one, boy did it erupt a FLAME with him!  He thought I was suggesting that NJ should go self serve, and was real hasty to me saying "We do not want self serve gas and our Unions are keeping that alive " and will keep fighting it to the end. 

My dad told me it when he was alive as this all went down (the changeover to self serve that is) back in the 70s where I was too young to remember.  My dad was smart and he was well knowledged in all things, and rest his soul, if all were like him the world would be a better place.  I trust his credibility and plus I lived in NJ back in the late 60s, 70s, and 80s before moving to Florida in 90, so I was able to witness most stuff as well. 

Also, with Wal Mart I did not say that there were NO supercenters, but not many.  If you look at the Wal Mart Rand McNally, you will see that the other 49 have almost all the stores as supercenters, but NJ has mostly the regular department stores in the store locater section.   With that being said, and the fact that WalMart always usually gets its way, and they are to be an everything outlet.  Add that to the fact in NJ they are everything, but groceries, it does tell you something.   Plus, New Jersey is traditionally known as to be a Union State, by the old timers.   I have had more dealings with pre baby boomers being of in my late 40s, so I hear the real deal that our society's media and news wants all of us today not to know about.

NOTE: I changed one line to read European Americans because some people think that I was making a certain kind of remark.  So now I hope I am politically correct.

[NE2]

Whoa, roadman65 is going all PC by pointing out that Native Americans are not Indians.

[roadman65]

Whoa, roadman65 is going all PC by pointing out that Native Americans are not Indians.

What are you talking about?  Obviously you do not get out much at all or else you would know who owns most convenience stores these days.   

[Roadgeek Adam]

Again, as I've told others, living in Jersey, I'd rather take the lower gas prices as a trade off for someone pumping my gas. I see nothing wrong with it. Sure when I go to other states, its fun to pump gasoline, but there's nothing wrong with full-serve.

[english si]

Well that may be now, but not when true Americans (not Indians or Muslims with the turbins) pumped your gas.

You mean Turbans. And only two sorts of Muslims wear Turbans - male descendants of Mohammed and Imams - it is highly unlikely that either would pump gas. You almost certainly mean Sikhs, which is a totally different thing. It's a fairly easy mistake to make, given that there aren't that many Sikhs.

Whoa, roadman65 is going all PC by pointing out that Native Americans are not Indians.

LOL - I hope that's what he meant. But sadly, as I was typing this post, looks like we do have someone who thinks those of South Asian descent (and Muslims) can't be true Americans 

Whoa, roadman65 is going all PC by pointing out that Native Americans are not Indians.

What are you talking about?  Obviously you do not get out much at all or else you would know who owns most convenience stores these days.

NE2 made a deliberate and creative charitable misreading of your post to explain away the massive and blatant racism.

Way to dig yourself deeper

[roadman65]

Again, as I've told others, living in Jersey, I'd rather take the lower gas prices as a trade off for someone pumping my gas. I see nothing wrong with it. Sure when I go to other states, its fun to pump gasoline, but there's nothing wrong with full-serve.

I am for self serve all around, as it would make New Jersey the most cheapest in the nation if it were.  At times, New Jersey's full serve is the same price as Florida's self serve.  Then one time I seen the Garden State Parkway's service area prices lower than Florida's cheapest price, and of course we know that toll roads are higher than the local area prices in the area of the service plazas.

[PHLBOS]

My biggest beef with full-service in NJ is that many (though not all) of the attendants barely speak a word of English.  I know that it's not politically correct to say this but, but if one is to be employed in a job that involves some interaction with the public (customer); you better learn to speak the language.  I realize that this alone is another subject for another thread.

If you have the opportunity, seek out stations attached to Wawa, QuickChek, grocery stores or warehouse clubs. I've found they tend to hire native-speakers. To be honest, I don't care if you speak English or not. So long as you understand "Fill 'er up, regular", but I know this is a problem for some people.

Most of my drives in/through NJ involve stopping at stations along either the GSP or NJTP (now mostly Sunocos); although, I have checked out a QuickCheck along US 130 north of NJ 32 in Cranbury/Dayton(?) for fueling but I only pass or encounter that station when I'm bypassing the NJTP due to construction-related traffic jam-ups.

BTW, my gripe regarding those not being able to speak the language, regardless of ethnic origin, while working in a service-customer-interaction-related position isn't just limited to gas/service stations.  Many years ago; I was practically pulling out what little hair I had left on my head because somebody at either a Burger King or KFC could not comprehend my order because their English was very limited; and no, it was not a long nor complicated order.

[Dr Frankenstein]

My biggest beef with full-service in NJ is that many (though not all) of the attendants barely speak a word of English.  I know that it's not politically correct to say this but, but if one is to be employed in a job that involves some interaction with the public (customer); you better learn to speak the language.  I realize that this alone is another subject for another thread.

I've had this experience too, especially near the Shore. Trying to understand someone who speaks your own second language incomprehensibly quickly becomes a nightmare. He had trouble with my accent too.

I don't see why suggesting that people who interact with the public speak the local language would be politically incorrect. It's the law where I live.

[PHLBOS]

I don't see why suggesting that people who interact with the public speak the local language would be politically incorrect. It's the law where I live.

If someone even proposes such a law in the U.S. (and a few have attempted such, mostly conservatives); they're automatically branded as being insensitive, intolerant racists.