Bad interchanges

[ftballfan]

There always seems to be a few interchanges that were either designed badly or are now unable to cope with traffic levels. This idea is taken from CBRD's bad junctions on British roads.

I have a couple in Michigan:

US-31/I-96/BUS US-31 in Muskegon
Map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Interstate+96+%26+U.S.+31,+Norton+Shores,+Muskegon,+Michigan+49444&aq=&sll=41.623655,-92.285156&sspn=6.749025,28.740234&ie=UTF8&geocode=FUW4kgIdFJnc-g&split=0&hq=&hnear=Interstate+96+%26+U.S.+31+Business,+Norton+Shores,+Muskegon,+Michigan+49444&ll=43.171242,-86.206434&spn=0.006432,0.01987&z=16
Basically a 1950s-era cloverleaf with two surface roads getting involved. Traffic from SB US-31 to WB BUS US-31 has to use around a half mile of Airline Rd to get onto BUS US-31. Traffic from NB US-31 to EB I-96 has to use a portion of Hile Rd, while traffic from WB I-96 to SB US-31 has to stop, turn right onto Airline Rd, then make a sharp right turn onto the onramp for SB US-31, which curves sharply to the left as soon as it leaves Airline Rd. Also, trying to get from SB US-31 to EB I-96 is not easy either, as you have to cross the traffic coming onto US-31 from Airline Rd (that ramp merges in about 100 yards before the EB I-96 offramp). I have almost gotten into many accidents there. However, going from WB I-96 to NB US-31, you sometimes can stay at 70+ MPH as US-31 itself merges in from the left.

I-96/I-196/M-37/M-44 in Grand Rapids
Map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Michigan+37+%26+Michigan+44,+Grand+Rapids,+Kent,+Michigan+49525&aq=&sll=43.01618,-85.689969&sspn=0.006056,0.01987&ie=UTF8&geocode=FSW4jwIdPv3l-g&split=0&hq=&hnear=Michigan+37+%26+Michigan+44,+Grand+Rapids,+Kent,+Michigan+49525&ll=42.972753,-85.591435&spn=0.006453,0.01987&z=16
The main problem here is exiting onto M-37/M-44 from EB I-96. You have to cross two lanes of I-196 as they are merging onto I-96 just to get to the offramp. The other movements at this junction are better.

[froggie]

or are now unable to cope with traffic levels.

This doesn't necessarily make an interchange "bad".  Plenty of examples of interchanges that are congested for a whole myriad of reasons...downstream bottleneck, mixing local with through traffic, limited right-of-way, etc etc.  Nevermind that, especially in today's political climate, we lack the resources to guarnatee free-flow at every interchange.  Not that we'd necessarily want that to begin with, especially in built-up areas.  The cost, not just project cost, but also in lost tax-base, relocations, lost right-of-way, etc, is just too high.

Poor design, of course, is another story altogether.  Such as your examples that show weaving issues.

[oscar]

The one that torments me on my way home from work in the evening is in downtown D.C., where I-395 southbound out of the Third Street Tunnel connects to the Southwest Freeway.  The basic problem is that the two lanes of traffic coming out of the tunnel need to move two or three lanes to the left to stay on I-395 into Virginia, and do so in less than a mile before the freeway narrows to three lanes.  Meanwhile, you have some Southwest Freeway traffic moving to the right in that same space, to make the 6th/7th Street and 12th Street exits.

Ramp braiding could be a fix, except that would require the demolition of at least two private office buildings right next to the westbound freeway.  D.C. has such a small tax base to begin with (very high percentage of nontaxable property, including Federal buildings and embassies), and would be loath to tear any of it down, even if it were otherwise inclined to help suburban commuters it yearns to (but can't) tax.

The big design mistake was not streaming southbound I-395 traffic into the left, rather than the right, lanes of the Southwest Freeway so that through I-395 traffic would not have to change lanes.  But high traffic volumes also add to the problem. 

[Interstate Trav]

The East Los Angeles Interchange, the Riverside interchange 91/215/60 before they re-designed it.

[agentsteel53]

embassies

obsolete media.  kick 'em out, tear 'em down.  this isn't 1833 anymore - if you want to talk to a country's leader, call 'em up.

[agentsteel53]

probably the worst interchange on the interstate system, until recently, was the Templin Highway on-ramp in the grapevine on I-5.  

the original was washed out in a landslide in 2005, and for six years it was a hasty reparation featuring a stop sign with a 150 foot merge distance into blind traffic.  Trucks are doing 80 down the hill in the rightmost lane and due to the geography, there was maybe 3/4 of a second of decision-making time to floor it and merge, or to hold still.  And if you guessed wrong... after 150 feet, wham Jersey barrier - literally, it was merge or die.  

luckily, after six years it appears to have been fixed.  At least, it looks a lot better from the mainline.  I haven't dared take the exit and then attempt to re-enter the freeway.

I cannot offhand think of a really hideous interchange on the interstate system, but I do know that the mainline 215 southbound at 210 features seven snap-merge lane changes (shift 12 feet within 100) in the span of a mile and a half.  Most of them unsigned, and of course the original concrete goes straight so there are no terrain clues that you have to swerve like a maniac to avoid a bridge pier.

[realjd]

embassies

obsolete media.  kick 'em out, tear 'em down.  this isn't 1833 anymore - if you want to talk to a country's leader, call 'em up.

<ot>
From a foreign relations standpoint, yes. But they provide important consular services to their citizens traveling overseas.
</ot>

One of the worst designed I can think of is the interchange between I-4 and the 408 in downtown Orlando. It was set up as a double trumpet. There are tight turn radii, crazy weaving on the short connector road, and huge backups. And to make it worse, the WB 408 to SB I-4 ramp is a poorly marked exit only lane. It's a 3 lane highway before and after the exit, but only the left 2 lanes continue past this exit.

They're working on fixing it. They've adding flyovers. A few are done yet and it's helped, but they need to finish it.

[agentsteel53]

<ot>
From a foreign relations standpoint, yes. But they provide important consular services to their citizens traveling overseas.
</ot>

they also provide a great espionage risk (the most well-bugged buildings in Washington and Moscow, respectively, were each other's embassies - and probably still are) and hey, Tehran '79 anyone?  They are a very rickety fiction that ignores the realities of modern war.  Back in the day, yes, screwing with an ambassador was tantamount to regicide - but these days, let's face it, when you will most desperately need consular services is when your embassy is suddenly the new headquarters of Achmed von Kalashnikov.

[myosh_tino]

My vote would be the US 101/I-880 interchange in San Jose, CA.  This 1950's-era cloverleaf interchange with sharp curves services two major freeways in San Jose, CA and at least once a week is the site of an overturned big rig on one of the cloverleaf ramps.  Unfortunately, there's no room for high-speed ramps (like at the 101/280/680 interchange) so Caltrans has resorted to putting up large warning signs with flashing yellow lights.  It's about all they can do with the land available.

Google Maps View

[agentsteel53]

My vote would be the US 101/I-880 interchange in San Jose, CA.

agreed.  the outline shield US-101 on 17 southbound has been gone for about 6 years, so now the interchange is without value.

[myosh_tino]

My vote would be the US 101/I-880 interchange in San Jose, CA.

agreed.  the outline shield US-101 on 17 southbound has been gone for about 6 years, so now the interchange is without value.

You mean this one?


If so then that's northbound I-880, not southbound.

[agentsteel53]

the one I am thinking of was on the same gantry as a sign with an 880 shield.  I think the main AARoads page has a photo and it isn't that one ...

I had forgotten about that northbound one.  when I moved to the area in May 2004 there were six or seven outline shields on and around the Bayshore Freeway, including one northbound near the southbound surviving one (US-85) and one somewhere a bit further south in the Santa Clara area that I passed every day on the way to work between Mountain View and Santa Clara ... and then at least two at the 880 and I know there were several others scattered about.

there was also one in Ventura and I think one around Atascadero, as of June 2004... and probably some others I am forgetting about.  Also one on the Dumbarton Bridge westbound that wasn't actually all that old, as it was button copy, not porcelain.



by the time I returned for a morning shot, it was gone...

[agentsteel53]

the southbound one was replaced by this one ...



btw, I did not check on the one surviving outline shield this morning, as I took 280-85-101 out of San Francisco heading home...

[DTComposer]

My vote would be the US 101/I-880 interchange in San Jose, CA.

Plus, you have to take a surface street (Old Bayshore Hwy) to get from I-880 SB to US-101 NB.

Not that Caltrans (or anyone else) has any money right now, but it looks like the land on three sides (SE, NE, NW) of the interchange are warehouse/industrial. If they were to acquire that, wouldn't there be enough room for some flyovers?

the southbound one was replaced by this one ...



btw, I did not check on the one surviving outline shield this morning, as I took 280-85-101 out of San Francisco heading home...

If I remember correctly, that location's pull-thru sign for I-880 used to have both Los Gatos and Santa Cruz listed...do they still use Los Gatos on signs from US-101 to I-880?

[Brandon]

Jake, that's one ugly US-101 shield on that new sign.  CalTrans really needs lessons on sign making.

[nexus73]

Two-lane roads meeting with an interchange show up in southwestern Oregon.  One is at SR 42/Powers Highway and the other is US 101 just north of Gold Beach, where an interchange connects the Rogue Hills development to the highway.  There is very little blend-in lane available.  These were a 1960's ODOT design is my guess.  Be careful when driving large RV's, commercial trucks and when pulling a trailer or if you see one of these trying to get onto the main highway.

Rick

[J N Winkler]

Jake, that's one ugly US-101 shield on that new sign.  CalTrans really needs lessons on sign making.

The US 101 shield is just fine--it meets Caltrans' rather offbeat but acceptably proportioned specification.  The I-880 shield, on the other hand, is an ugly and off-spec "bubble."

[myosh_tino]

Jake, that's one ugly US-101 shield on that new sign.  CalTrans really needs lessons on sign making.

When I first saw the newer 3-digit US shields, I thought they looked off-spec.  After finding the current Caltrans spec for a 3-digit US shield, I still think these are off-spec.  When I get home from work, I'll post what a "proper" 3-digit US shield should look like.

the southbound one was replaced by this one ...

Hmmmm.... I don't remember the old sign having an outlined 101 shield.  I'm a lifelong Santa Clara County resident but I will defer to your knowledge on this one.

btw, I did not check on the one surviving outline shield this morning, as I took 280-85-101 out of San Francisco heading home...

The last time I drove that stretch of 101 south a couple of weeks ago, that outlined US 101 shield was still there and will probably remain there until either the sign is damaged or the Rengstorff Avenue overpass is replaced.  Caltrans went on a sign-replacement binge back in 2006-2007 within Santa Clara county but only targeted those signs mounted on butterfly sign trusses.  This is why I think that lone outline shield will be around for a while because it's mounted on an overpass.

Also, the outline shields along CA-92 in San Mateo like the interchange sequence sign shown above are all gone.  Caltrans did a massive sign replacement a few years ago replacing just about all signs on I-280, CA-92 and US 101 within San Mateo county with reflective, exit numbered signs.

[agentsteel53]

When I first saw the newer 3-digit US shields, I thought they looked off-spec.  After finding the current Caltrans spec for a 3-digit US shield, I still think these are off-spec.  When I get home from work, I'll post what a "proper" 3-digit US shield should look like.

as far as I am concerned, the proper three-digit shield spec is the '61, as seen on button copy signs.  I don't know why CA strayed away from it.  that shield is, for the same dimensions, a bit "roomier", giving more separation between the sides and the number, and is therefore more legible, as well as being more aesthetically pleasing.  Note in my avatar that that shield fits Series EM letters, not just D which is the modern standard.  

For route 101, a two-digit (35x30) '61 spec shield with Series D numbers would be perfect.  I just made up such a thing on the shield generator; too bad I can't upload it at work.

Hmmmm.... I don't remember the old sign having an outlined 101 shield.  I'm a lifelong Santa Clara County resident but I will defer to your knowledge on this one.

I distinctly remember one with the left sign being an 880 pull-through, and I am quite sure the other one was 101 Los Angeles.  And this was very much southbound as I remember where I had been coming from (Fremont) and where I had attempted to go ("okay, this is 101 south already ... where the hell is the direct ramp to 101 north???")  The reason I hadn't taken 237 is because I was going to work in Santa Clara and I knew that 237 west to 101 south was a clusterfudge of an interchange... I specifically had anticipated 880-101 to be straightforward because it appeared to be reasonably perpendicular.  Ah, the vagueries of south bay freeway interchanges!

so, back on topic... a terrible set of interchanges in the south bay is 101/85/237 - especially when one lives inside the triangle.

This is why I think that lone outline shield will be around for a while because it's mounted on an overpass.

that is good because it is the absolute last sign of its kind in the state.  there are several state route outline shields left, but only one US as far as anyone's been able to discover.

Also, the outline shields along CA-92 in San Mateo like the interchange sequence sign shown above are all gone.  Caltrans did a massive sign replacement a few years ago replacing just about all signs on I-280, CA-92 and US 101 within San Mateo county with reflective, exit numbered signs.

that sign may have been on the 92 bridge, not the 84.  the thing is, it wasn't as old as it appears at first glance (like that outline shield on the retroreflective sign near the San Jose airport) because it was button copy, used '61 spec US shield, had route 82, etc.  It was probably a direct replacement of an actual old sign that had outline shields for By-Pass 101 and 101.

[myosh_tino]

so, back on topic... a terrible set of interchanges in the south bay is 101/85/237 - especially when one lives inside the triangle.

The old 101/85 interchange in Mountain View was absolutely dreadful but the new one is OK IMO as it eliminates the merging hell that was the 85 onramp to 101 and the Shoreline offramp from 101.  

I would include the 85/82 interchange with the 85/237 interchange due to the proximity of the two interchanges and the resulting traffic backups as cars exiting 85 for 237 interact with cars entering 85 from 82.

The 101/237 interchange gets a vote from me simply because east 237 traffic wanting to go to 101 north has to exit the freeway at Mathilda, go under 237, reenter the freeway going westbound and then take the exit ramp to 101 north.  That small stretch of Mathilda Avenue consists of 4 signalized intersections within a less than 1/4 mile stretch of road (Moffett Park Dr, 237 West, 237 East and Ross Dr) and is one of the most complained about stretches of city streets in the south bay.

See what I'm talking about

[agentsteel53]

I moved out in 2006 so I barely remember the redone 85/101.  I just recall that at one point I got pulled over for suspicion of driving drunk.

"have you been drinking tonight?"
"no sir"
"you were doing 25, weaving, seemingly unable to follow the lane stripes"
"which set of lane stripes should I follow?  there appear to be four."

and there were!  the original concrete, the gouged out stripes on the concrete from before construction began, a set of permanent ones to be installed marked with flags, and a set of contradictory temporary ones that were also marked with flags of identical color.

[haljackey]

The 401/427 interchange in Toronto is horrific. 18 lanes on Highway 401 converge to just 8, plus there's left-hand exiting, sharp turns, etc.

The behemoth of an interchange was overbuilt in preparation for another freeway to connect at this junction, but it never got built.

[Revive 755]

* The west end of the PSB in St. Louis:
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=38.620332,-90.187626&spn=0.006287,0.020599&t=k&z=17

Incomplete plus the awful 20 mph ramps for I-55

* The I-44/I-55/Truman speedtrap interchange;
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=38.611505,-90.209363&spn=0.006288,0.020599&t=k&z=17

Fix the awful 20 mph ramp from the left side of NB I-55 to the left side of I-44 and this one probably wouldn't be listed here.  There are some days however I could make a case for WB I-44 needing to exit I-55 on the left, instead of having I-55 traffic exiting from the PSB having to make two lane changes - this can get rather fun when exiting the PSB behind a semi that takes forever to accelerate.

* The planned interchange at the western end of the Great Lemon Bridge between the bridge and existing I-70:
http://www.newriverbridge.org/documents/plans/2010-03-03_MRB_Projects_Exhibit-light.pdf

Wouldn't be on this list if MoDOT would built it with ramps to/from the south.  Sure, they might have to be torn down/modified when - more likely a question of if, given the difficulty of funding the first bridge - a companion bridge is ever built, but this isn't stopping IDOT from making the bridge much more accessible on their end at the Tri-Level

* I-29 at I-229/US 71 north of St. Joesph, MO:
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=39.88729,-94.855678&spn=0.006207,0.020599&t=k&z=17

The left side merge from NB I-229 to NB I-29 needs to be longer or changed to a right side merge

* I-80 at I-35/I-235 (The East Mixmaster) in Des Moines, IA:
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=41.652249,-93.573647&spn=0.012089,0.041199&t=k&z=16

The loop from SB I-35 to EB I-80 needs a lot more merging space

* US 77/West Bypass at I-80, Lincoln, NE:
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=40.818981,-96.752547&spn=0.006122,0.020599&t=k&z=17

Another one with a loop ramp that lacks adequate merging area; this one also has an abundance of trucks that take an hour to get up to highway speed using said loop

* Any interchange where a mainline interstate uses a loop ramp.

[agentsteel53]

I just remembered a bad rural interchange: I-80 at I-81.  Out in the complete middle of nowhere, on two of the biggest truck routes in the country, and it features some 15mph ramps.

[Brandon]

* Any interchange where a mainline interstate uses a loop ramp.

How about two.  The Big X near Moline, Illinois has both I-80 and I-74 go through loops.