West Virginia

[hbelkins]

I think the idea behind improvements to a corridor between I-79 and WV 2 is to improve access for the traffic that's been generated by fracking. The last time I was in that area, injection well sites and pipeline construction projects were widespread.

US 250 is one of those "why is this road on the US highway system?" routes.

[Bitmapped]

I think the idea behind improvements to a corridor between I-79 and WV 2 is to improve access for the traffic that's been generated by fracking. The last time I was in that area, injection well sites and pipeline construction projects were widespread.

Fracking traffic is generally local, to and from a water source. With persistent low natural gas prices, the amount of drilling has dropped significantly from its peak.

Stretching it a bit, I could maybe see some realignments on the northern part from WV 891 to Moundsville. WV 891 connects to PA 21, which is already a decent route over to Waynesburg. This would provide improved access to

Did you mean to add more here?

Oops, I meant to delete that paragraph.

[roadwaywiz95]

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the overall interstate and highway system of West Virginia and giving folks a general overview of the roads of The Mountain State. Coverage will begin on Saturday (2/20) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

[roadwaywiz95]

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the overall interstate and highway system of West Virginia and giving folks a general overview of the roads of The Mountain State. Coverage will begin on Saturday (2/20) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

[roadwaywiz95]

Our next installment in the "Virtual Tour" series is scheduled to take place on Saturday (2/27) at 6 PM ET. Come join me and members of the AARoads community as we profile Corridor G of the Appalachian Development Highway System (US Route 119) and discuss the history and features of this highway all while enjoying a real-time video trip along the length of the highway between Pikeville, KY and Charleston, WV.

A link to the event location can be found below and we look forward to seeing you in attendance:

[sprjus4]

80 mph, again?

http://www.wvlegislature.gov/Bill_Status/Bills_history.cfm?input=331&year=2021&sessiontype=RS&btype=bill

[seicer]

There are very few areas where 80 MPH would make any sense. The design speed of interstates in West Virginia, if I recall correctly, is 70 MPH. The only area that could theoretically support 80 MPH limits because of the topography is Interstate 64 east of Sam Black Church where the highway goes through significant farmland with gently rolling grades and curves.

[sprjus4]

I-64 between Beckley and the Virginia state line would definitely be a good candidate for a 75 or 80 mph limit.

[Dirt Roads]

I-64 between Beckley and the Virginia state line would definitely be a good candidate for a 75 or 80 mph limit.

Except for the monstrous downgrade eastbound into the New River Gorge.  Truckers understand the danger, but I've seen too many flatlanders get in trouble going down this one.

[Bitmapped]

There are very few areas where 80 MPH would make any sense. The design speed of interstates in West Virginia, if I recall correctly, is 70 MPH. The only area that could theoretically support 80 MPH limits because of the topography is Interstate 64 east of Sam Black Church where the highway goes through significant farmland with gently rolling grades and curves.

Much of I-79, at least, has a 65mph design speed. DOH has been able to get FHWA to go along with a 70mph speed limit due to low accident rates, but I think there'd be pushback trying for higher.

[seicer]

For that same reason, the amount of curves and a high accident rate on I-64 west of Barboursville really precludes any higher speed limits than 70 MPH (currently signed at 65 MPH). Maybe this will change once it's six-laned to West Huntington but I'd doubt it.

The one odd design feature on West Virginia's interstates is the lack of superelevated curves - at least to me. There are some noticeable flatter curves that really don't make driving over 80 MPH as easy as in other states where those curves may be more banked.

[Dirt Roads]

The one odd design feature on West Virginia's interstates is the lack of superelevated curves - at least to me. There are some noticeable flatter curves that really don't make driving over 80 MPH as easy as in other states where those curves may be more banked.

Agreed that it seems as if there is very little superelevation in those curves.  However, you can tell that there is some because of the difference in adjacent lane elevations in curves with Jersey barriers down the middle.  One location you can see this is the sweeping curve on the West Virginia Turnpike from the Kanawha Valley up into Cabin Creek hollow near the Chelyan exit.

[MASTERNC]

The one odd design feature on West Virginia's interstates is the lack of superelevated curves - at least to me. There are some noticeable flatter curves that really don't make driving over 80 MPH as easy as in other states where those curves may be more banked.

It always feels like taking the curves on I-68 up and down the big hill at 70 MPH or faster is harder than on other highways of the same speed limit and advisory speed.  Maybe this is why.

[seicer]

I often wonder if that makes crossover accidents at curves a higher probability.

[sprjus4]

Cable guardrail was being installed on long portions of I-64 and I-79 when I drove through there this summer, which will help to at least reduce fatal crossover collisions.

[Dirt Roads]

I often wonder if that makes crossover accidents at curves a higher probability.

Yes, plus a low or negative superelevation can cause rollover accidents for vehicles/trucks with high center of gravity.  There are several curves on the northbound lanes in the Paint Creek Canyon section of the West Virginia Turnpike that have reverse superelevation (where most of the roadbed is sloped away from the rock cut face).  We railroaders mistakenly call this "negative cant" (cant is the effect of centrifugal force as reduced by superelevation, so "negative cant" is actually the where the design speed is no longer mitigated by superelevation).

Superelevation is an artform [perfected by high speed railroads].  It needs to incorporate its own rate of change (roll rate) into the slope while also dealing with the rate of change of curvature (spiral) and often the need to set drainage at a particular slope angle.  You see this messed up the most often with grade crossings in curves with multiple track.  But I have also pushed roadway and highway bridge designers to use the same principles: 

     (A) set the curves parallel at the center of the radius;
     (B) set the elevation of the inside of the curve at the minimum design requirement;
     (C) set the roadbed slope consistent with the superelevation for the entire width of the roadbed;
     (D) design the spirals into the curve according to standard curve design practices;
     (E) extend the roll rate over the entire length of the spirals;
     (F) extend the roll rate into the tangent sections according to superelevation design standards;
     (G) correct the roll rate for the outside of the curve to meet the elevations along the centerline between lanes; and finally,
     (H) design the drainage according to standards

In layman's terms, you want to tilt the roadbed correctly in the middle of the curve and then you want to gently untilt the roadbed in both directions until you get everything smooth and flat.  Old timey civil engineers pulled out their slide rules and took the time to achieve this.  Oftentimes, programmers didn't give today's civil engineers the right set of tools to make this easy (but they understand the principle very well).  The business I was working in often needed to mix FHWA and AASHTO design practices into the mix of (American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association) standards due to the prevalence of rubber-tired trains in the AGT industry.  Not sure why this computer geek had to be the one pushing to get these curves correct.

This isn't fun for the designer, and it can be very difficult for some contractors to understand.  And it certainly costs a lot more when the superelevation is set as high as possible.  You can see where this gets really complicated for roadways in excess of 4 lanes with wide medians.

[Dirt Roads]

Anyway, back to where I was headed with all of this.  In West Virginia, the frequency of elevation and slope changes makes the design of grades and vertical curves more important than the superelevation designs.

[hbelkins]

I really don't feel comfortable doing more than 70 on most of I-79 and I-77 north of Charleston (although I think the 60 mph section of the turnpike is underposted). Of course, it's more noticeable in a pickup truck than in a car, and for many years I made those trips in my Toyota Tacoma.

Cable barriers have been installed along a lot of I-79, I noticed the last time I was up that way.

[tq-07fan]

I too don't see 80 being safe anywhere in the state of West Virginia. I-64 between Barboursville and US 35 has enough level straight sections but is always too busy, although traffic seams to move along at 75.

I remember back in 1987 on a trip in my Grandma's used camper seeing the first 65 mph speed limit signs in my life in West Virginia. That was before I-64 was even completed.

Jim

[tolbs17]

People will definitely be flying. Expect some to drive to 100. And here in North Carolina, I don't get why we don't raise our speed limits to 75. Everyone here goes like 80-85 and the posted speed is 70. A higher speed limit is definitely reasonable.

I'm guessing it's cause West Virginia is very rural so they have great candidates for a higher speed limit.

[sprjus4]

^

It's a state by state decision.

To be honest, North Carolina has far more candidates for 75 mph segments, but it's the state that has not decided to act on this.

West Virginia also allows a higher 65 mph limit on divided highways, whereas North Carolina along with Virginia and South Carolina only permit 60 mph.

[Dirt Roads]

People will definitely be flying. Expect some to drive to 100. And here in North Carolina, I don't get why we don't raise our speed limits to 75. Everyone here goes like 80-85 and the posted speed is 70. A higher speed limit is definitely reasonable.

I'm guessing it's cause West Virginia is very rural so they have great candidates for a higher speed limit.

But because of all of the criss-crossing multi-state traffic, it's my impression that only I-77 between Charleston and Mineral Wells and I-79 between Charleston and Stonewood have low enough traffic densities to justify even the 70MPH speed limit.  Since I'm a seasoned mountain driver, I've got no qualms driving 70MPH or so in the other sections, but 30% to 40% of the out of state traffic is struggling to just to survive the high lateral accelerations in curves.

On a slightly different note:  It seems a bit odd to include I-77 and I-79 just inside the Charleston city limits as lightly travelled rural interstates, and then exclude most of the rest of state.

[SP Cook]

Other than the misdesigned northern third of the Turnpike, and a few miles in Charleston, all interstates in WV can safely be driven at speeds well above 70.  I know this because they are, every day.

[Dirt Roads]

Other than the misdesigned northern third of the Turnpike, and a few miles in Charleston, all interstates in WV can safely be driven at speeds well above 70.  I know this because they are, every day.

I started to write two different responses supportive of your statement.  But having significant experience with safe braking distance calculations with both electrical/electronic and mechanical analyses, I had better protect my turf and take the safe road here.  It would be unwise of me to suggest that anything less than about 3.75 seconds vehicle spacing would be considered safe at 70MPH.  When traffic density exceeds about 950 vphpl on a regular basis, sustained 70MPH operations is at your own risk.

Even though I'm retired, I might get pushed back into action without notice.  I was an expert in a only few obscure areas, but I've had significant experience in almost everything you can think of related to this topic, so I probably should protect that reputation.

All that being said, I've got no issue with how the DOH (and the West Virginia Turnpike) have posted speed limits throughout the state.  Sorry to infer otherwise.

[Alps]

Other than the misdesigned northern third of the Turnpike, and a few miles in Charleston, all interstates in WV can safely be driven at speeds well above 70.  I know this because they are, every day.

By the right car in the right conditions. A lot of the curvature on I-79, the one I know best, is not conducive to such speeds in the rain or with bald tires, etc.