http://www.kentucky.com/2014/01/15/3035325/beshear-proposes-753-million-plan.html
Finally. The proposed timeline prior to this was practically a non-starter, and I'd be an old man before the parkway would be widened to four-lanes. Incremental construction, like what West Virginia has been doing to the King Coal/Tolsia and Coalfield expressways, is not the way to finance this.
Toll adverse? Nah. We had seven tolled highways and had more completed miles of modern interstates and freeways than most states when the system was completed, especially with such a low population density. And with tolls being implemented on the new Ohio River bridges at Louisville and with tolls being the only way of financing for the supplemental Brent Spence Bridge, the state can no longer toll adverse. Tolling is one of the few options remaining to finance such large highway projects.
I dare say there will be a revolt in eastern Kentucky at the thoughts of tolls going back on this road, no matter how much people say they want it widened to four lanes.
There was a proposal floated back in the 1980s to keep the tolls on the road when the bonds were paid off and the tolls were removed, and the residents of the area were up in arms against it. Not to mention just about every newspaper along and near the route
Tolling a new highway? Yeah, I'm OK with that. Putting tolls back on a road that was once tolled and has been free for 30 years? Not so much, and I suspect the protests will be loud and quick to begin.
Tolls are the only to get it done. Either toll or stay in 50's Eastern Kentucky. The future without King Coal is not pleasant. I say this as a native of Ketucky.
I was told today that the figures cited by the governor are highly inflated and that tolls probably won't be necessary. This will give certain politicians the ability to claim that they were able to avoid imposing tolls. It should be noted that the governor is term-limited and can't run for re-election and has indicated that he will retire from politics when his term is up.
It should also be noted that the Speaker of the House, who purports to represent Prestonsburg but actually lives and works in Lexington, has gubernatorial aspirations.
Take from those notes what you will.
I'm already hearing a backlash from eastern Kentuckians on reimposing tolls on a road that has been free for three decades, especially on the part that is already four lanes.
My opinion: Once again, Frankfort is screwing the rural areas of Kentucky. They didn't put tolls back on the Kentucky Turnpike when it was widened between Louisville and Elizabethtown.
Will the four lanes be controlled access?
Doubtful. For the existing Mountain Pkwy section, probably. But you'd either need a new alignment or some major right-of-way clearing and frontage road construction east of Salyersville. Given the cost figure involved, I'd hazard a bet they plan on widening existing 460 and 114 vice finding a new alignment. A new alignment for 114 alone would easily blow past that $753M figure.
The plans currently in the works for the existing Mountain Parkway call for some new alignments in certain areas, and widening the existing "super-2" in others. For the US 460 portion, the plan is to build a system of "backage" roads to provide access to the businesses along that route. We're actually having a public meeting on the US 460 segment next Thursday night to unveil the final preferred alternative to the public.
It was originally proposed to build a new alignment to the south of existing US 460 but the local business community complained that bypassing the section known locally as "Restaurant Row" would hurt the local economy. Magoffin County has traditionally had one of the highest unemployment rates in the state.
The short portion of KY 114 near Prestonsburg that was four-laned about 10 years ago was done on the existing alignment.
It was already in the realm of possibilities to send one and possibly two segments of the Mountain Parkway to bid later this year. I think they've visited Colorado to take part in use of a newly-legalized intoxicating substance if they think the whole thing can be done by 2020. It took six years to build the three-mile new four-lane segment in Wolfe County under a design-build contract. Doing 50 miles in seven years is almost laughable.
Thought about this hard today but I can't support this unless the new extension is built to limited access standards.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 16, 2014, 10:19:29 AM
It was already in the realm of possibilities to send one and possibly two segments of the Mountain Parkway to bid later this year. I think they've visited Colorado to take part in use of a newly-legalized intoxicating substance if they think the whole thing can be done by 2020. It took six years to build the three-mile new four-lane segment in Wolfe County under a design-build contract. Doing 50 miles in seven years is almost laughable.
MoDOT 4-laned roughly 55 miles of U.S. 60 in 3 years, from Willow Springs to Van Buren, so it's
possible ... but probably not in Kentucky.
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on January 17, 2014, 02:41:46 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 16, 2014, 10:19:29 AM
It was already in the realm of possibilities to send one and possibly two segments of the Mountain Parkway to bid later this year. I think they've visited Colorado to take part in use of a newly-legalized intoxicating substance if they think the whole thing can be done by 2020. It took six years to build the three-mile new four-lane segment in Wolfe County under a design-build contract. Doing 50 miles in seven years is almost laughable.
MoDOT 4-laned roughly 55 miles of U.S. 60 in 3 years, from Willow Springs to Van Buren, so it's possible ... but probably not in Kentucky.
Was that actual construction only, or everything from planning and environmental to opening the road to travel?
There's been very little, if any, preliminary work done on the Mountain Parkway segment from Exit 46 to Exit 57, and the KY 114 segment. Most of the work to date has centered on Exit 57 to the eastern terminus and the US 460 segment in Salyersville. The stretch from Campton to Helechawa (Exit 57) has the lightest traffic so it will be the last portion done.
Quote from: ShawnP on January 16, 2014, 11:47:30 PM
Thought about this hard today but I can't support this unless the new extension is built to limited access standards.
The Mountain Parkway itself will be limited access, but not the US 460/KY 114 sections. The one at-grade with KY 134 will be removed and a full interchange will be built with a county road that intersects KY 134. The project plans to add two exits with existing local roads and convert Exit 60 from a partial interchange to a full interchange.
I'd have to see if I can still find all the news reports. I believe it was more like 5 years total on that stretch if you figure in preliminary work. I do recall that they fast-tracked it after Amendment 3 was passed to give them more funding flexibility.
As I recall, too, Missouri has a law allowing local jurisdictions to put to a vote a local option tax (with a sunset provision) for road work of this type. It's what they used/are using on U.S. 67 north of Poplar Bluff. I know there's a similar concept floating in Frankfort this session, but whether it includes roads, I don't know. My feeling is that it should.
US-36 four lanning in NE Missouri got done because of a local sales tax option.
The local sales tax option, as I understand Kentucky's proposal, wouldn't help build roads.
Ok will the eastern extension be built to easily upgradeable portions?
The US 460 portion through Salyersville will have signalized intersections. The short portion of KY 114 near Prestonsburg that's already four lanes has at-grade intersections. I don't think any plans have been put forth for the rest of KY 114 but I suspect it will have at-grades as well.
The Mountain Parkway portion will be full freeway.
So only the Mountain Parkway portion will be tolled? US 460 and KY 114 will remain free roads as part of this plan? It would seem to me that if you are to do this right and tolls are going to be a part of it anyway, extend the Mountain Parkway all the way to Prestonsburg and leave US 460 and KY 114 as the free alternative.
I hate to say it, but maybe making the Mountain Parkway a I-x64 would do a bit better for industry recruitment? It isn't a sure-fire method by any means. Of course, that's after the tolls are removed (if they get removed this time at all).
The legislative highway plan was unveiled today. It calls for a $2 million expenditure to determine a toll structure for the Mountain Parkway, and the language in the document suggests that the route will be tolled all the way from Winchester to Prestonsburg. On its face, this would indicate tolls on KY 114. There are some spots along the route that can't easily be shunpiked, so who knows?
I don't think it was ever reported here, on this thread or in another, that the schedule for the widening of the Mountain Parkway was lengthened and the provisions for tolling the route were subsequently removed.
I attended a meeting Friday about the widening of the Mountain Parkway, specifically the KY 114 portion between Salyersville and Prestonsburg. They have a nearly 20-year-old study of it that they are using as a base document, but more homes have been built along the section. There are more than 120 homes that would have to be relocated if the existing alignment is used, which seems to be the preferred alternative. There is concern that the local housing market would not be able to accommodate all the families that would have to be relocated.
Look for www.mtnparkway.com to be active around August for project information.
Bumping this topic since this is loosely related to the topic, but was there ever a proposal to extend the super-2 portion of the Mountain Parkway east to Williamson, WV, or was there not really a need for it?
On the subject of the extension, I am a bit disappointed that the website above doesn't have any maps or schematics up.
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 17, 2014, 12:51:11 PM
On the subject of the extension, I am a bit disappointed that the website above doesn't have any maps or schematics up.
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/Project-Details.aspx?Project=Mountain%20Parkway%20Extension%20-%20KY%209009-%20US%20460-%20KY114%20Programming%20Study
It's just widening with a few oxbow straightenings.
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 17, 2014, 12:51:11 PM
Bumping this topic since this is loosely related to the topic, but was there ever a proposal to extend the super-2 portion of the Mountain Parkway east to Williamson, WV, or was there not really a need for it?
Not to my knowledge was such an idea ever floated.
Quote from: NE2 on November 17, 2014, 01:19:20 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 17, 2014, 12:51:11 PM
On the subject of the extension, I am a bit disappointed that the website above doesn't have any maps or schematics up.
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/Project-Details.aspx?Project=Mountain%20Parkway%20Extension%20-%20KY%209009-%20US%20460-%20KY114%20Programming%20Study
It's just widening with a few oxbow straightenings.
Pretty much.
If this thing will be four lane limited access, then I would definitely support tolls.
Two questions though: Why Prestonburg and not Paintsville? :hmmm:
And a little off topic but why doesn't US460 flip flop designations with KY114? :confused:
Quote from: billtm on November 17, 2014, 10:47:50 PM
If this thing will be four lane limited access, then I would definitely support tolls.
Nope. They're committed to running the route along existing US 460 in Salyersville. There was huge local opposition to a plan to route the new road along the ridgetop to the south of that corridor.
QuoteTwo questions though: Why Prestonburg and not Paintsville? :hmmm:
Because of Pikeville. It's the biggest city in the region and the most influential from an economic/big money standpoint.
QuoteAnd a little off topic but why doesn't US460 flip flop designations with KY114? :confused:
When US 460 was extended into Kentucky in the 1950s, I don't know why the decision was made to route it along KY 40 from Paintsville instead of KY 114 from Prestonsburg. Anybody who was involved in that decision is probably long since dead.
KYTC conducted a public meeting Tuesday night in Prestonsburg concerning the four-laning of KY 114 between the US 460 intersection at Salyersville and the beginning of the existing four-lane west of Prestonsburg.
They've put two options on the table -- widening existing KY 114 and reducing the number of driveways and side road access points, or building a new limited-access freeway north of the existing route, with no intersections or interchanges whatsoever along the new freeway.
Amazingly, total cost for the new-terrain route is only $7 million more than for widening the existing route, due to the cost of right-of-way, utility relocations and stream impact fees if existing 114 is widened.
There is tremendous concern among some that the Floyd County housing market does not have enough existing dwellings to support the number of people who would be displaced if the existing route is widened.
They're considering public input, but my guess is that they will opt for the new-terrain route because of the lessened impact on area residents. Current estimate is to have the project done by 2020.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 16, 2015, 12:02:32 PM
KYTC conducted a public meeting Tuesday night in Prestonsburg concerning the four-laning of KY 114 between the US 460 intersection at Salyersville and the beginning of the existing four-lane west of Prestonsburg.
They've put two options on the table -- widening existing KY 114 and reducing the number of driveways and side road access points, or building a new limited-access freeway north of the existing route, with no intersections or interchanges whatsoever along the new freeway.
Amazingly, total cost for the new-terrain route is only $7 million more than for widening the existing route, due to the cost of right-of-way, utility relocations and stream impact fees if existing 114 is widened.
So you'd have freeway west of Salyersville, surface road in Salyersville, freeway east to Prestonsburg, then surface road again at Prestonsburg?
Quote from: Bitmapped on April 16, 2015, 10:16:48 PM
So you'd have freeway west of Salyersville, surface road in Salyersville, freeway east to Prestonsburg, then surface road again at Prestonsburg?
Yep. There were plans for a route south of existing US 460 in Salyersville, but the local economic interests protested vehemently. They said bypassing the stretch of restaurants and gas stations there (locally known as Restaurant Row) would kill that area. So plans for widening US 460 to four lanes were in the works long before the overall Mountain Parkway project was announced last year.
HB: is there a figure for the level of through traffic between Salyersville and Prestonsburg as compared to the existing traffic level along KY 114? I find it hard to believe that there's a volume level that would justify a new-terrain freeway, ESPECIALLY if that freeway would have zero interchanges in between, which effectively makes it useless to KY 114 traffic that does have an origin or destination between Salyersville and Prestonsburg.
I haven't seen any projected traffic counts, only existing counts along KY 114:
http://maps.kytc.ky.gov/photolog/?config=TrafficCounts
ADT of 5764 just east of US 460, 5230 at the Magoffin/Floyd line, 10,850 between KY 122 and US 23.
Interesting to note that they're adding an interchange (at KY 3050/Gifford Road) on the existing super 2 west of Salyersville, as well as upgrading the KY 134/KY 191 interchange (Exit 60) from a partial to a full interchange, and converting the at-grade connector between KY 134 and the parkway that was added in the late 80s after the tolls were removed to a grade-separated interchange, but nothing's planned for the easternmost segment.
The proposed routing has the new alignment only crossing two roads, Dry Bread Road, which is a county road that runs into Johnson County, and KY 1427. Those would be the only possible access points unless a new route is proposed to link the new route to existing 114.
In this case, the justification isn't the traffic volumes, but the number of people who would be forced to sell their houses and move, and the fact that isn't enough available housing in the local market to accommodate the residents who would be displaced.
If 114's volumes are that low, I'm not convinced that 4-laning is even needed. A new-alignment 2-lane might be justifiable, but a separate 4-lane corridor certainly isn't...even if volumes double (which I doubt...that area of Kentucky isn't exactly growing).
Quote from: froggie on April 17, 2015, 06:22:39 PM
If 114's volumes are that low, I'm not convinced that 4-laning is even needed. A new-alignment 2-lane might be justifiable, but a separate 4-lane corridor certainly isn't...even if volumes double (which I doubt...that area of Kentucky isn't exactly growing).
Some sections of the super-2 Mountain Parkway are a lot lower. I'm not convinced that four-laning the Mountain Parkway super-2 section is necessary. But The Powers That Be are dead-set on four-laning the entire corridor. I think a few passing lanes on 114 would be more than sufficient.
Agreed. I've taken 114 and it's really not that bad. The signals in Salyersville are probably the worst part of the whole corridor.
Quote from: froggie on April 18, 2015, 07:19:08 AM
Agreed. I've taken 114 and it's really not that bad. The signals in Salyersville are probably the worst part of the whole corridor.
There's actually only one signal, at the terminus of the Mountain Parkway. The existing four-laning plan for the Restaurant Row corridor of US 460, with its system of frontage and backage roads for access to the existing businesses, will actually add more signals.
Does anyone have a timeframe on when this extension might be built?
Supposed to be completed by 2020.
Work is well underway now to widen the Mountain Parkway from Salyersville west. It is about five miles in length.
Quote from: codyg1985 on June 08, 2016, 07:36:50 AM
Work is well underway now to widen the Mountain Parkway from Salyersville west. It is about five miles in length.
Did you drive through there on your way home from West Virginia?
There's a pre-bid conference tomorrow on the US 460 portion in Salyersville. Replacing a three-lane road that has only one traffic light with a four-lane road with five or six traffic lights. :pan: :banghead:
Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2016, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on June 08, 2016, 07:36:50 AM
Work is well underway now to widen the Mountain Parkway from Salyersville west. It is about five miles in length.
Did you drive through there on your way home from West Virginia?
I did! I will post photos soon on here and on Facebook.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2016, 04:02:29 PM
There's a pre-bid conference tomorrow on the US 460 portion in Salyersville. Replacing a three-lane road that has only one traffic light with a four-lane road with five or six traffic lights. :pan: :banghead:
Barf indeed.
Here is a link (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10100301116767163.1073741933.78202701&type=1&l=0829dc3a9b) to my Facebook album of pictures of the construction.
Does KYTC have any electronic PDF plans available online for projects that are being let? I couldn't find any.
Quote from: codyg1985 on June 08, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Does KYTC have any electronic PDF plans available online for projects that are being let? I couldn't find any.
Not that I'm aware of. Occasionally some plans will get posted on the Division of Construction Procurement's website, but that's a rarity. Mr. Winkler probably has the definitive answer to that question.