Madison Area

[midwesternroadguy]

After the Beltline opened ca. 1951, there was a City US 12 and 14, and possibly a City US 18. City 12/14 followed University Avenue (to campus) to Park Street where it turned south until the two highways split at Olin Avenue.  I remember the yellow shields for these business routes until their removal about 1970.  I don't remember yellow shields for City 18 (would have been Nakoma Road to Monroe Street to Regent Street to Park Street.  I wish they had remained for wayfinding purposes, even though they didn't go all the way to the Capitol Square.

[SEWIGuy]

Received an email today saying that WIDOT is considering moving US-151 onto the interstate and the Beltline as part of this project.

It makes complete sense. This is the only section of US-151 on a city street in-between the Mississippi and Fond du Lac. While it's understandable to want to have a signed navigable route to and through downtown Madison, there is no reason for through traffic on US-151 to follow the signed route.

I would not be opposed to a special "Capitol Loop" designation, but instead of following the existing designated US-151 routing, I'd route it on E. Washington, Blair Ave, and John Nolen Dr back to the Beltline. I don't see a purpose for Park St. or Regent St to have a state highway designation, though if the City of Madison so desired, it could designate a University Loop to connect the Beltline to the UW campus.

Completely agree on the routing.  BTW, I believe technically US-151 doesn't go onto Regent Street - it is on Proudfit St. just to the east of Washington Avenue. Those two streets only started meeting at a common intersection with West Washington sometime in the late 80s I believe.

[Big John]

WisDOT removed the Business 41 designation from several cities in the late 1990s, saying they did not belong in larger cities.  With that, I doubt Business 151 would be used there.

[GeekJedi]

Received an email today saying that WIDOT is considering moving US-151 onto the interstate and the Beltline as part of this project.

I've always thought that the route from the freeway to the capital should be "WI-1". Yes, I know it breaks the rules, and it doesn't really matter - I just think it would be cool!

No words on any potential number for the 'old' road, I assume (ie, 'WI 251', 'WI 451','BR US 151', etc).  I would support this proposal, too, BTW.

Mike

[mgk920]

IMHO, rerouting US 151 to follow the interstates (which I fully support) would also make it much more likely that the forthcoming re-engineering of the highways after 2030 (currently under study) will include free-flowing ramps and other through surface street connections at the E Washington Ave 'East Towne Interchange'.

Mike

[JREwing78]

Completely agree on the routing.  BTW, I believe technically US-151 doesn't go onto Regent Street - it is on Proudfit St. just to the east of Washington Avenue. Those two streets only started meeting at a common intersection with West Washington sometime in the late 80s I believe.

Correct. And it's Blair St. not Ave.

[skluth]

Completely agree on the routing.  BTW, I believe technically US-151 doesn't go onto Regent Street - it is on Proudfit St. just to the east of Washington Avenue. Those two streets only started meeting at a common intersection with West Washington sometime in the late 80s I believe.

Correct. And it's Blair St. not Ave.

Correct on the US 151 was never on Regent St, heading west down West Washington before going south on Park to the Beltline. Gotta love how having a triplex wasn't enough so the Beltline was a quadraplex of US 12-14-18-151 between Verona Rd and Park. However, Regent and Proudfit did meet at West Washington when I was living there in the late 70s. This city map from 1966 shows it's been that way since at least then. It is interesting to see on the map how much of the street pattern near the intersection has been reconfigured with the new Kohl Center since then, so I can understand thinking Regent/Proudfit at Washington being different back then.

[US 12 fan]

If it is true that they are discussing rerouting US 151 because of the potential Madison-to-Wisconsin Dells project, it makes complete sense. It wouldn't surprise me if they replace the Madison route with either 251, 351, 451 or Business 151. But is it possible that might make it a single digit? I don't understand the issue of not having a single digit highway in this state, with the exception of US 2 and US 8. Is it also possible that they expand Highway 30 or 113? Not necessarily as the entire Madison route but as a partial route. Say for instance, instead of 113 ending at 151, they just expand it and have it end at US 12-14-18-151.

[The Ghostbuster]

I highly doubt US 151 will be rerouted within the Madison area. There really is no need to. Utilizing US 12/18 and Interstates 39/90/94 is sufficient to make an all-freeway journey around the Madison area without rerouting the US 151 designation.

[triplemultiplex]

I would liken it to how WisDOT slowly pulled US 41 off the city streets in the Milwaukee area.  The thru traffic already knows which way to go to keep following US 151, moving the shields would just make it official.

So would this give Madison a second quadplex, or do y'all think if they've got all the separate carriageways and stuff like in those alternatives, that means it won't count?

As far as the current routing thru the core of Madison, I actually think the most likely scenario is WisDOT hands it all over to the city.  That way the city doesn't have to jump through as many hoops about what it does with the affected streets as the city keeps growing and infilling.  Like if they want to narrow up the lanes on North Shore or build BRT on Park St, they won't have to run that by WisDOT since it won't be a "state highway" any more.  It would be kind of like how the Layton Blvd reconstruction around the Millennium was the impetus for the first movement of US 41 onto the freeways over in MKE.

Though that does sort of leave WI 113 and WI 30 hanging.  But so what?  There's no rule about state highways having to end at other state highways.

Speaking of John Nolen Dr., there is a proposed reconstruction project planned in the near future: https://www.cityofmadison.com/engineering/projects/john-nolen-drive.

Yes and boy is it needed.  The pavement condition keeps getting worse with large chunks of concrete coming loose every winter by the Colosseum.  The transition to the bridges is getting more and more harsh and one of those expansion joint plates is clearly loose from how much noise it makes when vehicles drive over it.  I might also add the parallel bike path also suffers from poor pavement quality; you'll feel those bumps for sure.

I know I would also appreciate some more vertical clearance between the average water surface and the underside of the bridges.  Yeah they're about the same as the railroad bridges, but Nolen is way wider and it would be nice to have a little more head room under there as you're paddling through, especially when the water is high.  Give the cliff swallows more space.

[SEWIGuy]

I would liken it to how WisDOT slowly pulled US 41 off the city streets in the Milwaukee area.  The thru traffic already knows which way to go to keep following US 151, moving the shields would just make it official.

So would this give Madison a second quadplex, or do y'all think if they've got all the separate carriageways and stuff like in those alternatives, that means it won't count?

As far as the current routing thru the core of Madison, I actually think the most likely scenario is WisDOT hands it all over to the city.  That way the city doesn't have to jump through as many hoops about what it does with the affected streets as the city keeps growing and infilling.  Like if they want to narrow up the lanes on North Shore or build BRT on Park St, they won't have to run that by WisDOT since it won't be a "state highway" any more.  It would be kind of like how the Layton Blvd reconstruction around the Millennium was the impetus for the first movement of US 41 onto the freeways over in MKE.

Though that does sort of leave WI 113 and WI 30 hanging.  But so what?  There's no rule about state highways having to end at other state highways.

Or you could extend WI-30 along Aberg and both could end at the Packers / Aberg intersection.

[mgk920]

I would liken it to how WisDOT slowly pulled US 41 off the city streets in the Milwaukee area.  The thru traffic already knows which way to go to keep following US 151, moving the shields would just make it official.

So would this give Madison a second quadplex, or do y'all think if they've got all the separate carriageways and stuff like in those alternatives, that means it won't count?

As far as the current routing thru the core of Madison, I actually think the most likely scenario is WisDOT hands it all over to the city.  That way the city doesn't have to jump through as many hoops about what it does with the affected streets as the city keeps growing and infilling.  Like if they want to narrow up the lanes on North Shore or build BRT on Park St, they won't have to run that by WisDOT since it won't be a "state highway" any more.  It would be kind of like how the Layton Blvd reconstruction around the Millennium was the impetus for the first movement of US 41 onto the freeways over in MKE.

Though that does sort of leave WI 113 and WI 30 hanging.  But so what?  There's no rule about state highways having to end at other state highways.

Or you could extend WI-30 along Aberg and both could end at the Packers / Aberg intersection.

Well, the part of US 41 on Milwaukee streets north of national Ave is still a state highway (WI 175).

How many 3DIs end at regular non-state highway city streets?  Decommission the rest of WI 30 and replace it with an 'odd' 3DI number.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

It's hard to believe that STH 30 once spanned from Madison to Milwaukee (although it was co-designated with other routes east of Goerke's Corners). I disagree that it should be an Interstate Highway, since the 30 designation has been around since 1923 (more information on STH 30 I and II are available here: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys30-39.html#STH-030), and I believe it should keep that designation.

[hobsini2]

I always thought that Wis 13 should be extended down Wis 113 and Wis 213 to Beloit. Have 30 end along Aberg at Packers or Have 30 follow the current 151 Washington corridor before heading out on University to end at 14 & 12. But that's pie in the sky.

[The Ghostbuster]

STH 213 was part of STH 13 until 1961, when it was retracted to its present terminus west of Wisconsin Dells: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html#STH-213. STH 113 was commissioned as an alternative to STH 13 and STH (soon-to-be US) 12 when the former was extended from Kilbourn (present-day Wisconsin Dells) to Beloit in 1923. I think STH 113 should have been part of STH 13 to begin with. I think the duplex with STH/US 12 to Madison, and the duplex with US 14 (after 1933) from Madison to Evansville was unnecessary. Alas, all that is ancient history, as STH 13 was retracted due to the construction of Interstates 90 and 94 (as well as the unnecessary co-currency with US 12 and US 14, which lasted 77 miles).

[peterj920]

WisDOT removed the Business 41 designation from several cities in the late 1990s, saying they did not belong in larger cities.  With that, I doubt Business 151 would be used there.

WISDOT requested for the business routes to be removed. It's ultimately up to the municipalities if they wanted to remove the business routes of not with the exception of Business 51 in Wausau, the only full WISDOT business route. Bus 51 is a WISDOT highway in Plover and Whiting, but was turned back to city of Stevens Point as a part of the US 10 project.

If US 151 was rerouted, the City of Madison could request a business route and locally sign it.

Otherwise, why not make a Bypass US 151 designation on I-90 and The Beltline? The only one in the state was short lived when Bypass US 53 existed along the partially complete Eau Claire Bypass and North Crossing until the bypass was fully opened.

[SEWIGuy]

STH 213 was part of STH 13 until 1961, when it was retracted to its present terminus west of Wisconsin Dells: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html#STH-213. STH 113 was commissioned as an alternative to STH 13 and STH (soon-to-be US) 12 when the former was extended from Kilbourn (present-day Wisconsin Dells) to Beloit in 1923. I think STH 113 should have been part of STH 13 to begin with. I think the duplex with STH/US 12 to Madison, and the duplex with US 14 (after 1933) from Madison to Evansville was unnecessary. Alas, all that is ancient history, as STH 13 was retracted due to the construction of Interstates 90 and 94 (as well as the unnecessary co-currency with US 12 and US 14, which lasted 77 miles).

WI-13 was one of the original state highways. My guess is that they duplexed it with WI-12 (current US-12) because that was the best route to take at the time between Madison and Kilbourn. Even now, WI-113 might as well be a county highway north of Madison. It's narrow and curvy - hardly a major route.

[peterj920]

STH 213 was part of STH 13 until 1961, when it was retracted to its present terminus west of Wisconsin Dells: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html#STH-213. STH 113 was commissioned as an alternative to STH 13 and STH (soon-to-be US) 12 when the former was extended from Kilbourn (present-day Wisconsin Dells) to Beloit in 1923. I think STH 113 should have been part of STH 13 to begin with. I think the duplex with STH/US 12 to Madison, and the duplex with US 14 (after 1933) from Madison to Evansville was unnecessary. Alas, all that is ancient history, as STH 13 was retracted due to the construction of Interstates 90 and 94 (as well as the unnecessary co-currency with US 12 and US 14, which lasted 77 miles).

WI-13 was one of the original state highways. My guess is that they duplexed it with WI-12 (current US-12) because that was the best route to take at the time between Madison and Kilbourn. Even now, WI-113 might as well be a county highway north of Madison. It's narrow and curvy - hardly a major route.

Wis 113 is very worthy of a state highway north of Madison. It is very busy between Madison and Waunakee. It's also becoming increasingly busy to Lodi. The intersection with County Hwys  P/V is currently being reconstructed as a roundabout due to traffic at that intersection.

Wis 134 would be the state highway that should be a county highway. A 3 mile spur to the unincorporated community of London. Supposedly it was needed back in the day because London had a train station and nearby Cambridge did not.

[SEWIGuy]

STH 213 was part of STH 13 until 1961, when it was retracted to its present terminus west of Wisconsin Dells: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html#STH-213. STH 113 was commissioned as an alternative to STH 13 and STH (soon-to-be US) 12 when the former was extended from Kilbourn (present-day Wisconsin Dells) to Beloit in 1923. I think STH 113 should have been part of STH 13 to begin with. I think the duplex with STH/US 12 to Madison, and the duplex with US 14 (after 1933) from Madison to Evansville was unnecessary. Alas, all that is ancient history, as STH 13 was retracted due to the construction of Interstates 90 and 94 (as well as the unnecessary co-currency with US 12 and US 14, which lasted 77 miles).

WI-13 was one of the original state highways. My guess is that they duplexed it with WI-12 (current US-12) because that was the best route to take at the time between Madison and Kilbourn. Even now, WI-113 might as well be a county highway north of Madison. It's narrow and curvy - hardly a major route.

Wis 113 is very worthy of a state highway north of Madison. It is very busy between Madison and Waunakee. It's also becoming increasingly busy to Lodi. The intersection with County Hwys  P/V is currently being reconstructed as a roundabout due to traffic at that intersection.

Wis 134 would be the state highway that should be a county highway. A 3 mile spur to the unincorporated community of London. Supposedly it was needed back in the day because London had a train station and nearby Cambridge did not.

I agree on WI-134.  But I could name a bunch of Dane County highways that are more worthy of being a state highway than WI-113.

[peterj920]

STH 213 was part of STH 13 until 1961, when it was retracted to its present terminus west of Wisconsin Dells: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html#STH-213. STH 113 was commissioned as an alternative to STH 13 and STH (soon-to-be US) 12 when the former was extended from Kilbourn (present-day Wisconsin Dells) to Beloit in 1923. I think STH 113 should have been part of STH 13 to begin with. I think the duplex with STH/US 12 to Madison, and the duplex with US 14 (after 1933) from Madison to Evansville was unnecessary. Alas, all that is ancient history, as STH 13 was retracted due to the construction of Interstates 90 and 94 (as well as the unnecessary co-currency with US 12 and US 14, which lasted 77 miles).

WI-13 was one of the original state highways. My guess is that they duplexed it with WI-12 (current US-12) because that was the best route to take at the time between Madison and Kilbourn. Even now, WI-113 might as well be a county highway north of Madison. It's narrow and curvy - hardly a major route.

Wis 113 is very worthy of a state highway north of Madison. It is very busy between Madison and Waunakee. It's also becoming increasingly busy to Lodi. The intersection with County Hwys  P/V is currently being reconstructed as a roundabout due to traffic at that intersection.

Wis 134 would be the state highway that should be a county highway. A 3 mile spur to the unincorporated community of London. Supposedly it was needed back in the day because London had a train station and nearby Cambridge did not.

I agree on WI-134.  But I could name a bunch of Dane County highways that are more worthy of being a state highway than WI-113.

Travel Wis 113 during rush hour, there's way more traffic than you think.

County PB and Wis 69 could be swapped. The National Highway System has County PB and not Wis 69.

Wis 113 is a NHS route from Wis 19 west to the end at US 151.

[skluth]

STH 213 was part of STH 13 until 1961, when it was retracted to its present terminus west of Wisconsin Dells: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html#STH-213. STH 113 was commissioned as an alternative to STH 13 and STH (soon-to-be US) 12 when the former was extended from Kilbourn (present-day Wisconsin Dells) to Beloit in 1923. I think STH 113 should have been part of STH 13 to begin with. I think the duplex with STH/US 12 to Madison, and the duplex with US 14 (after 1933) from Madison to Evansville was unnecessary. Alas, all that is ancient history, as STH 13 was retracted due to the construction of Interstates 90 and 94 (as well as the unnecessary co-currency with US 12 and US 14, which lasted 77 miles).

WI-13 was one of the original state highways. My guess is that they duplexed it with WI-12 (current US-12) because that was the best route to take at the time between Madison and Kilbourn. Even now, WI-113 might as well be a county highway north of Madison. It's narrow and curvy - hardly a major route.

Wis 113 is very worthy of a state highway north of Madison. It is very busy between Madison and Waunakee. It's also becoming increasingly busy to Lodi. The intersection with County Hwys  P/V is currently being reconstructed as a roundabout due to traffic at that intersection.

Wis 134 would be the state highway that should be a county highway. A 3 mile spur to the unincorporated community of London. Supposedly it was needed back in the day because London had a train station and nearby Cambridge did not.

I agree on WI-134.  But I could name a bunch of Dane County highways that are more worthy of being a state highway than WI-113.

Travel Wis 113 during rush hour, there's way more traffic than you think.

County PB and Wis 69 could be swapped. The National Highway System has County PB and not Wis 69.

Wis 113 is a NHS route from Wis 19 west to the end at US 151.

WI 113 was four lanes to CTH M back when I lived in Madtown in the late 70s. I remember it being pretty busy to the airport but never went past that. Added bonus: It's one of the few state highways that must be clinched with a free car ferry trip.

[SEWIGuy]

STH 213 was part of STH 13 until 1961, when it was retracted to its present terminus west of Wisconsin Dells: http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys200-399.html#STH-213. STH 113 was commissioned as an alternative to STH 13 and STH (soon-to-be US) 12 when the former was extended from Kilbourn (present-day Wisconsin Dells) to Beloit in 1923. I think STH 113 should have been part of STH 13 to begin with. I think the duplex with STH/US 12 to Madison, and the duplex with US 14 (after 1933) from Madison to Evansville was unnecessary. Alas, all that is ancient history, as STH 13 was retracted due to the construction of Interstates 90 and 94 (as well as the unnecessary co-currency with US 12 and US 14, which lasted 77 miles).

WI-13 was one of the original state highways. My guess is that they duplexed it with WI-12 (current US-12) because that was the best route to take at the time between Madison and Kilbourn. Even now, WI-113 might as well be a county highway north of Madison. It's narrow and curvy - hardly a major route.

Wis 113 is very worthy of a state highway north of Madison. It is very busy between Madison and Waunakee. It's also becoming increasingly busy to Lodi. The intersection with County Hwys  P/V is currently being reconstructed as a roundabout due to traffic at that intersection.

Wis 134 would be the state highway that should be a county highway. A 3 mile spur to the unincorporated community of London. Supposedly it was needed back in the day because London had a train station and nearby Cambridge did not.

I agree on WI-134.  But I could name a bunch of Dane County highways that are more worthy of being a state highway than WI-113.

Travel Wis 113 during rush hour, there's way more traffic than you think.

County PB and Wis 69 could be swapped. The National Highway System has County PB and not Wis 69.

Wis 113 is a NHS route from Wis 19 west to the end at US 151.

Driven it plenty of times and I stand by my assertion.

[thspfc]

WI-113 has plenty of traffic (>4k AADT) south of Lodi. North of Lodi it falls off quite a bit to just over 1k AADT. Even so, there are a LOT of WI state highways I would decomission before WI-113, including the nearby WI-188.

[peterj920]

WI-113 has plenty of traffic (>4k AADT) south of Lodi. North of Lodi it falls off quite a bit to just over 1k AADT. Even so, there are a LOT of WI state highways I would decomission before WI-113, including the nearby WI-188.

The portion of Wis 188 between US 12 and Wis 60 is very busy. It's the "Sauk City Bypass"  for traffic not wanting to drive through town and wanting to travel through Sauk City to get to Prairie Du Sac or north on Wis 78.

[thspfc]

WI-113 has plenty of traffic (>4k AADT) south of Lodi. North of Lodi it falls off quite a bit to just over 1k AADT. Even so, there are a LOT of WI state highways I would decomission before WI-113, including the nearby WI-188.

The portion of Wis 188 between US 12 and Wis 60 is very busy. It's the "Sauk City Bypass"  for traffic not wanting to drive through town and wanting to travel through Sauk City to get to Prairie Du Sac or north on Wis 78.

It peaks at about 2k. It would be just fine as a busier segment of a county road.