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Traffic signal

Started by Tom89t, January 14, 2012, 01:01:45 AM

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NoGoodNamesAvailable

Quote from: jakeroot on June 14, 2018, 12:56:11 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on June 14, 2018, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 14, 2018, 02:27:21 AM
Bike signals should really only be used along two-way cycle tracks

Why? Most protected bike lanes in NYC are one-way.

Just seems like overkill. I like protected bike paths, but the single lane ones work fine with normal traffic lights. Two-way cycle paths? Those definitely need full protection. Honestly, I think one-way cycle paths are a waste of time. Just move all traffic to one side of the roadway, and use the extra space for a two-way path on the other side.

Images I've seen from NYC use FYA's against one-way cycle paths, so they really don't operate any different than a standard bike lane with green or blue paint through an intersection. In those instances, they'd be better off just switching the turn lanes and the bike lanes up several dozens of feet prior to an intersection, so the only conflict point is a brief switchover.

I'm going to beg to disagree. The unprotected "mixing zone" that NYC DOT uses is a death trap. You cannot expect drivers to yield to parallel bicycle traffic at speed, dozens of feet before an intersection–they just won't.

All intersections with a turn signal/bike signal treatment in NYC have a full turn protection phase for bicycles that usually switches to a permissive FYA. I can tell you from my own experience that even a short protected phase is a major improvement, similar to a leading pedestrian interval. Yielding behavior is much better when bicycles are allowed to establish themselves in the intersection before vehicles start turning.

One of my pet peeves is how NYC DOT ends the green paint at intersections and driveways–it seems awfully backward, painting the lane green where it's least useful then ending the paint where it's most needed.


jakeroot

It looks to me as though New York City's design of the crossover point is quite poor. Minimal markings, and poor visibility thanks to parked cars. Just rectifying those two things could massively improve the situation, short of installing a two way cycle track.

If there was an opportunity to use a flashing yellow arrow against a bike lane, I would be fine with that (though I'd prefer a combo bike/ped signal). However, at least in Washington, only protected turns are allowed against cycle tracks (or at least that's all that's been used). I have never seen a protected-permissive turn against a cycle track.

By the way, your link is false advertising. No one died ;-). And it looks more like the car that was trying to go left was actually trying to park. They were turning far too sharp just to be turning left.

MNHighwayMan

#1727
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 14, 2018, 06:53:01 PM
Couple other notes on that signal:

1) The right turn head may be in violation of MUTCD 4D.13 Paragraph 07.  Can't tell for sure, but based on Streetview it looks like they swapped out one of the through heads.

For an entirely different set of reasons, I actually have a picture of the old signal setup, and you are correct.


TBKS1



A weird/broken signal (Saint Louis, Missouri) by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

Saint Louis, Missouri - I took this about 2 weeks ago. This just looks weird.
I take pictures of road signs, that's about it.

General rule of thumb: Just stay in the "Traffic Control" section of the forum and you'll be fine.

traffic light guy

Quote from: TBKS1 on June 16, 2018, 06:24:30 PM


A weird/broken signal (Saint Louis, Missouri) by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

Saint Louis, Missouri - I took this about 2 weeks ago. This just looks weird.

Yeah, the visors are missing, this makes the signal look flat and cartoony

SR 228

Found this really odd U-shaped signal in Brazil, is anyone aware of how it functions? It has quite a lot of sections and has rectangular horizontal louvers.

While moving the view around in GSV and changing capture dates, I notice the sections vary in position, possibly a countdown?

GSV link: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.7899028,-35.2051515,3a,21.4y,27.6h,100.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svOJtRYMXd8GMkKhekmUoDQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Revive 755

Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link

roadfro

Quote from: SR 228 on June 17, 2018, 01:36:47 AM
Found this really odd U-shaped signal in Brazil, is anyone aware of how it functions? It has quite a lot of sections and has rectangular horizontal louvers.

While moving the view around in GSV and changing capture dates, I notice the sections vary in position, possibly a countdown?

GSV link: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.7899028,-35.2051515,3a,21.4y,27.6h,100.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svOJtRYMXd8GMkKhekmUoDQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

It looks like the bottom portion of the U serves as a traditional sideways R-Y-G. From moving around in street view, it appears that the sides of the U are indeed a countdown–a second red or green ball starts somewhere up the appropriate side and gradually falls in position towards the other red/green ball at the bottom of the U, and the phase changes shortly thereafter.

That's an interesting operation, and an interesting way to provide a countdown without actually displaying numbers to the driver.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

index

Quote from: Revive 755 on June 17, 2018, 12:16:49 PM
Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link


That isn't too different from decorative masts you see here in some cities like downtown Tampa. They're usually a bit more bulky and have a perfect fit around the signal here though.


For reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9474157,-82.4587696,3a,75y,218.65h,97.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0aoc6nkYyn63VGIyDB1XZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

TBKS1

Quote from: index on June 17, 2018, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 17, 2018, 12:16:49 PM
Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link


That isn't too different from decorative masts you see here in some cities like downtown Tampa. They're usually a bit more bulky and have a perfect fit around the signal here though.


For reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9474157,-82.4587696,3a,75y,218.65h,97.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0aoc6nkYyn63VGIyDB1XZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And then you have this... (Downtown Little Rock) - I've posted on this thread before



A unique stoplight by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr
I take pictures of road signs, that's about it.

General rule of thumb: Just stay in the "Traffic Control" section of the forum and you'll be fine.

kkt

Quote from: TBKS1 on June 17, 2018, 06:49:27 PM
Quote from: index on June 17, 2018, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 17, 2018, 12:16:49 PM
Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link


That isn't too different from decorative masts you see here in some cities like downtown Tampa. They're usually a bit more bulky and have a perfect fit around the signal here though.


For reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9474157,-82.4587696,3a,75y,218.65h,97.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0aoc6nkYyn63VGIyDB1XZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And then you have this... (Downtown Little Rock) - I've posted on this thread before



A unique stoplight by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

I wouldn't know what to do with that.  Go twice as fast?

MNHighwayMan

#1736
Three protected/permissive right-turn signal heads? Because why not.



Old view of the previous setup in GSV before the second right-turn lane was added.

jakeroot

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 23, 2018, 04:38:01 AM
Three protected/permissive right-turn signal heads? Because why not.

https://i.imgur.com/VwNjXRL.jpg

Old view of the previous setup in GSV before the second right-turn lane was added.

Cool, I like it!

There is something similar to that near me, in Federal Way, WA, the only difference being that all right turn signals are on posts:



There's also this intersection with a doghouse overhead but towers on the side. Only one turn lane here, though:


MNHighwayMan

#1738
Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too... Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)

traffic light guy

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 23, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too... Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)

Where I live, doghouses are used for right turns all the time, so they're never not normal to me

jakeroot

Quote from: traffic light guy on June 23, 2018, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 23, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too... Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)

Where I live, doghouses are used for right turns all the time, so they're never not normal to me

I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Federal Way specifically takes after California quite a bit too; having doghouses overhead, and towers on the sides, is the norm there.

traffic light guy

Quote from: jakeroot on June 23, 2018, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on June 23, 2018, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 23, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too... Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)

Where I live, doghouses are used for right turns all the time, so they're never not normal to me

I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Federal Way specifically takes after California quite a bit too; having doghouses overhead, and towers on the sides, is the norm there.

4-section right turn filter, interesting, they're not used where I live either. Philly loves using 5-section towers instead of doghouses though, the suburbs on the other hand, use doghouses whenever.

MNHighwayMan

#1742
Quote from: jakeroot on June 23, 2018, 11:21:16 PM
I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Bi-modal means that one section displays two aspects, right (ie, for example, the green arrow and yellow arrow are combined into one signal lens)?

Because if so, there's a few of those around Des Moines for protected lefts. Here's an example.



That bottom section on the far left displays both the green and yellow arrow, if the protected left is activated by enough waiting vehicles. (Or, just one vehicle, if you're kind of a dick like me and wait above where the sensor loop is embedded in the turn lane, and not at the stop line!)

SignBridge

Those bi-modal arrows are common in New Jersey too. Many traffic engineers however believe it's better to have a separate green and yellow arrow so it's more eye catching when it changes. I agree with them.

Brandon

Quote from: traffic light guy on June 16, 2018, 10:46:37 PM
Quote from: TBKS1 on June 16, 2018, 06:24:30 PM


A weird/broken signal (Saint Louis, Missouri) by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

Saint Louis, Missouri - I took this about 2 weeks ago. This just looks weird.

Yeah, the visors are missing, this makes the signal look flat and cartoony

There's one of these that's permanently like this in Joliet, IL due to a pole in the way.

McDonough & Joyce
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

jeffandnicole

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 24, 2018, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 23, 2018, 11:21:16 PM
I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Bi-modal means that one section displays two aspects, right (ie, for example, the green arrow and yellow arrow are combined into one signal lens)?

Because if so, there's a few of those around Des Moines for protected lefts. Here's an example.



That bottom section on the far left displays both the green and yellow arrow, if the protected left is activated by enough waiting vehicles. (Or, just one vehicle, if you're kind of a dick like me and wait above where the sensor loop is embedded in the turn lane, and not at the stop line!)

Why wouldn't they put it at the stop line? It's perfectly normal to let any turning traffic turn first.

Revive 755

Quote from: Brandon on June 24, 2018, 08:56:16 PM
McDonough & Joyce

I had been wondering if diagonal span wire had ever been done in Illinois . . .

At the McDonough/Houbolt intersection the signals use horizontal heads on all the mast arms - I am guessing this has to do with the nearby airport.

ErmineNotyours

Three right signals on posts at the end of the NB Exit 4 cloverleaf to West 900 off I-405 in Renton.  It looked pretty weird the first time I saw it a few years ago.

Signal hoods on a swinging light broken off by trolley guy wires, Boren & Madison, Seattle.

jakeroot

#1748
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 24, 2018, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 23, 2018, 11:21:16 PM
I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Bi-modal means that one section displays two aspects, right (ie, for example, the green arrow and yellow arrow are combined into one signal lens)?

Because if so, there's a few of those around Des Moines for protected lefts. Here's an example.

That bottom section on the far left displays both the green and yellow arrow, if the protected left is activated by enough waiting vehicles. (Or, just one vehicle, if you're kind of a dick like me and wait above where the sensor loop is embedded in the turn lane, and not at the stop line!)

That's the one. If you look around Snohomish County, WA, damn near every pro/per signal is bi-modal, minus those that are FYAs. Either way, lots of four-section signals!

By the way, don't wait at the sensor. Just turn in a gap or at the end. You don't need an arrow if you're the only one waiting.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 24, 2018, 09:53:02 PM
Why wouldn't they put it at the stop line? It's perfectly normal to let any turning traffic turn first.

If there's only one waiting car, they probably don't need an arrow to turn. They'll find a gap or turn at the end.

roadfro

Quote from: Revive 755 on June 24, 2018, 10:02:35 PM
At the McDonough/Houbolt intersection the signals use horizontal heads on all the mast arms - I am guessing this has to do with the nearby airport.

I'd accept that explanation, but it seems silly when there appears to be trees taller than the mast arms all around the intersection...
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.



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