Virginia SR 3000, SR 7100, SR 7900 studies to become primary?

Started by Mapmikey, January 18, 2012, 12:57:22 PM

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Mapmikey


A presentation by VDOT's CTB looks like they are leaning towards making Prince William Pkwy (SR 3000), Fairfax County Pkwy (SR 7100), and Springfield-Franconia Pkwy (SR 7900) primary routes.

http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/jan/pre/CTB_Workshop_Meeting_January_Posting.pdf  then click on item #7.

They do not speculate on numbers to be assigned.  They are not natural candidates for extension of existing designations...

Mapmikey


1995hoo

If they were to do this, I wonder whether it would make sense to renumber the roads slightly to give the Franconia—Springfield Parkway the same number as the portion of the Fairfax County Parkway from Rolling Road to its northern terminus at Route 7, simply because of the way the road is designed so that the natural through movement involves "exiting" the Fairfax County Parkway onto the Franconia—Springfield Parkway (or vice versa) by simply driving straight ahead. (To their credit, this move is not signed as an "exit.")

I suppose the potential downside of that idea is that the new part of the Fairfax County Parkway that opened last year connects the rest of the Parkway to I-95 via a full interchange at Newington, whereas the Franconia—Springfield Parkway's only direct connection to I-95 is to the express lanes, such that people wanting to go from that route to I-95 must use Backlick Road, Frontier Drive to Franconia Road, or some combination of routes further to the east. No doubt there's some logic to the idea of maintaining the consistent route number to the full interchange. On the other hand, given the design of the point where people remaining on the Fairfax County Parkway have to exit to stay on the road, and given that signage has to be used there to guide unfamiliar motorists to I-95 anyway, it may not be that big a deal in practical terms when presumably they'd already be renumbering the roads.

The only potential I would see for extending an existing designation would be if–and I recognize this is a big "if" and one that's extremely unlikely to happen–the VA-401 designation used on Van Dorn Street in the City of Alexandria were to be extended south down Van Dorn to Kingstowne Boulevard, then west on that road (changes names to Manchester Boulevard) and onto the Franconia—Springfield Parkway. That routing is already a major thru route through this area as it is because the eastern end of the Parkway naturally leads people to follow either that route or the Beulah-to-Franconia route. The portion through the Kingstowne area is posted at 35 mph, though. I quite selfishly dislike the idea simply because I have to use Van Dorn Street whenever I drive anywhere and I wouldn't want the traffic load to increase. Fairfax County would have to request that the routes become part of the primary system, of course, and that seems unlikely. I mention the notion solely for the sake of completeness.
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Takumi

I'm guessing one of them would be VA 248. The 24X's (except 249) were assigned to the Culpeper district in 1933, and at the time that included Prince William and Fairfax. Some of the recycled 24X designations have appeared in that district (240, 242, 243, 245) so I wouldn't be surprised if that happens again.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
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Don't @ me. Seriously.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Mapmikey on January 18, 2012, 12:57:22 PM

A presentation by VDOT's CTB looks like they are leaning towards making Prince William Pkwy (SR 3000), Fairfax County Pkwy (SR 7100), and Springfield-Franconia Pkwy (SR 7900) primary routes.

http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/jan/pre/CTB_Workshop_Meeting_January_Posting.pdf  then click on item #7.

They do not speculate on numbers to be assigned.  They are not natural candidates for extension of existing designations...

Many thanks for sharing this.

I was not aware that it would be on the CTB agenda so early in 2012.
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froggie

QuoteFairfax County would have to request that the routes become part of the primary system, of course, and that seems unlikely.

Not necessarily.  Since VDOT already owns every public road in Fairfax County, they could do it themselves without county approval if they deem it worthwhile.

Beltway

Quote from: Takumi on January 18, 2012, 02:24:00 PM
I'm guessing one of them would be VA 248. The 24X's (except 249) were assigned to the Culpeper district in 1933, and at the time that included Prince William and Fairfax. Some of the recycled 24X designations have appeared in that district (240, 242, 243, 245) so I wouldn't be surprised if that happens again.

NoVA has 1-digit and 2-digit primaries (3, 7, 28), and 1xx primaries.

The lowest 5 numbers not currently assigned, are 12, 25, 44, 88 and 104.

I would recommend --
12 for Fairfax County Parkway
25 for Franconia—Springfield Parkway
88 for Prince William Parkway

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1995hoo

Quote from: froggie on January 18, 2012, 05:23:42 PM
QuoteFairfax County would have to request that the routes become part of the primary system, of course, and that seems unlikely.

Not necessarily.  Since VDOT already owns every public road in Fairfax County, they could do it themselves without county approval if they deem it worthwhile.

Yeah, the statute does allow them to act sua sponte. I haven't seen the administrative regulations implemented pursuant to the statute, as the LIS doesn't include the text of the Virginia Administrative Code. In this particular case I did note that the CTB placed some emphasis on the fact that both counties requested it. The statute (Va. Code 33.1-34) limits secondary-to-primary transfers to 50 miles per year (with an exception for situations where a construction or maintenance project is completed, which basically led me to assume that local requests might be more of a factor than is necessarily required by statute.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Takumi

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 18, 2012, 06:01:02 PM
The statute (Va. Code 33.1-34) limits secondary-to-primary transfers to 50 miles per year (with an exception for situations where a construction or maintenance project is completed, which basically led me to assume that local requests might be more of a factor than is necessarily required by statute.

Do the 3 routes exceed 50 miles total? If so it's not by more than a couple miles, given the VA 234 part of the PWP already in the primary system.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

Beltway

Quote from: Takumi on January 18, 2012, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 18, 2012, 06:01:02 PM
The statute (Va. Code 33.1-34) limits secondary-to-primary transfers to 50 miles per year (with an exception for situations where a construction or maintenance project is completed, which basically led me to assume that local requests might be more of a factor than is necessarily required by statute.

Do the 3 routes exceed 50 miles total? If so it's not by more than a couple miles, given the VA 234 part of the PWP already in the primary system.

Even if that is the case, they could do the Fairfax routes in one year, and the PW route in the next year.
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Takumi

They could also make an addendum to the statute, something to the effect of: if a secondary-to-primary transfer does not occur in one year, some of the allotted mileage can be used the next year if so needed. Because that hasn't happened since VA 253 was created in 2005, the addendum would allow all 3 routes to become primary even if they total over 50 miles.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

Mapmikey

According to the VDOT presentation the length of the routes to be transferred is 48 miles.

The 50-mile rule has been around over 60 years, as is its accompanying rule that Virginia can't transfer more than 150 miles primary back to secondary in a year.

Splitting years is the way to go for the CTB although the General Assembly could specifically legislate mileage into the primary system as has been done in the far past.

Re-thinking the extension of existing designations, the PW Pkwy could be an extended VA 55...I always thought SR 619 from US 29/VA 55 to VA 28 could be put into the system - it is fully 4 lane.  Then brief duplexes with VA 28 and VA 234 would get yo to the PW Pkwy.  Or, it could be done via I-66 and VA 234 Bypass.

SR 7100 could be an extension of VA 235 if they really wanted to.  Virginia has had routes that had a little loop on one end (current VA 92 and former VA 119 in Salem come to mind).  More far-fetched is making it an extension of VA 9.

Mapmikey

Takumi

Quote from: Mapmikey on January 19, 2012, 06:23:05 AM
Re-thinking the extension of existing designations, the PW Pkwy could be an extended VA 55...I always thought SR 619 from US 29/VA 55 to VA 28 could be put into the system - it is fully 4 lane.  Then brief duplexes with VA 28 and VA 234 would get yo to the PW Pkwy.  Or, it could be done via I-66 and VA 234 Bypass.

That last routing alternative makes the most sense, since it would be entirely over routing that's already in the primary system, west of the 234/3000 intersection.

My numbering preference for the FC Parkway is VA 25 (the original VA 25 was also in this part of the state, roughly following VA 123 and 120), and VA 248 for the F-S Parkway for reasons described in a previous post. Depending on the routing of the future Tri-County Parkway, perhaps it could be an extended VA 9.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

WillWeaverRVA

#12
I haven't been in the area in a *very* long time, but weren't there recently some improvements made to the US 29/VA 55 intersection that involved rerouting VA 55 onto Gallerher Road and having it end at the US 29/SR 619 intersection? If that was the case, then I sort of like the idea of routing VA 55 down SR 619, then onto VA 28 then VA 234 as Mapmikey suggested.

I'd suggest using Godwin Dr/Hastings Dr instead, but it's a very convoluted route, it goes through the City of Manassas, the quality of the pavement is very poor and the road itself is 4-lane but somewhat substandard, and it's not a very useful through route due to a large amount of residential development. However, a slight rerouting at the eastern end would eliminate the need for what is now SR 3000 to turn onto itself twice after leaving VA 234 if that route were used.
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Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on January 19, 2012, 08:17:40 PM
I'd suggest using Godwin Dr/Hastings Dr instead, but it's a very convoluted route, it goes through the City of Manassas, the quality of the pavement is very poor and the road itself is 4-lane but somewhat substandard, and it's not a very useful through route due to a large amount of residential development. However, a slight rerouting at the eastern end would eliminate the need for what is now SR 3000 to turn onto itself twice after leaving VA 234 if that route were used.
If you want to avoid the turns, why not just send it down Wellington?
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Mapmikey

A few months ago VA 55 was moved to end directly across from SR 619 as it did originally in the 1930s.  This is to accomodate the US 29 improvements which include an overpass at the RR tracks where VA 55 met US 29.  An interchange is being built at the US 29/VA 55/SR 619 interchange.

I suppose if the VA 55 duplex didn't bother folks the PW Pkwy could also be an extended VA 215.

Trucks are prohibited on both of those alternatives suggested through Manassas

Mapmikey

froggie

QuoteI suppose if the VA 55 duplex didn't bother folks the PW Pkwy could also be an extended VA 215.

This was more along the lines of my thinking.

As for the Fairfax County Parkway, as someone earlier mentioned, there is precedent for having a circumferential VA 25 through the county.

maplestar

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 18, 2012, 06:01:02 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 18, 2012, 05:23:42 PM
QuoteFairfax County would have to request that the routes become part of the primary system, of course, and that seems unlikely.

Not necessarily.  Since VDOT already owns every public road in Fairfax County, they could do it themselves without county approval if they deem it worthwhile.

Yeah, the statute does allow them to act sua sponte. I haven't seen the administrative regulations implemented pursuant to the statute, as the LIS doesn't include the text of the Virginia Administrative Code.

It's linked on the sidebar, right underneath the link to the Code of Virginia: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+men+SRR

kurumi

From a Feb 17 2012 WTOP story, here are the new numbers: http://wtop.com/?nid=654&sid=2751894

3000 => 294
7100 => 286
7900 => 289
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