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Interstate 73/74

Started by Voyager, January 18, 2009, 08:09:48 AM

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CanesFan27

Quote from: LM117 on May 10, 2016, 07:22:27 PM
Thanks for the info, guys. So, once the new terrain I-73 opens from Bryan Blvd. to US-220 north of Greensboro, the rest of the corridor to VA is just upgrading US-220, correct? Also, I found the latest (dated 2012) I-73 VA corridor map for anybody interested. Apologies in advance if this has already been posted.



Pretty much yes - and as Mark suggested - the upgrades will be piecemeal for the foreseeable future.


wdcrft63

So...a little of Virginia's I-73 is open (perhaps not up to interstate standards) on the Martinsville bypass. Plus, of course, the I-581/US 220 freeway through Roanoke.

Strider

Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 10, 2016, 10:19:52 PM
So...a little of Virginia's I-73 is open (perhaps not up to interstate standards) on the Martinsville bypass. Plus, of course, the I-581/US 220 freeway through Roanoke.


Yeah you are correct, a little of Virginia's I-73 is open from what you just mentioned. So VA only have to construct I-73 from NC line to US 58 bypass, and then from US 58 bypass to where I-581/US 220 freeway begins.

I just looked at Google Maps, the Martinsville Bypass (the US 58 section east of the town) is not up to interstate standards, so they're going to have to upgrade that section.

Mapmikey

"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

WashuOtaku

Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.

LM117

Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.

Well, here's the latest news I could find about I-73 in VA. I'll be surprised if VDOT even breaks ground within the next 10 years.

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/news/i--project-s-scoring-called-into-question/article_4f684cde-7dea-11e5-9419-5bfe63f88816.html
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

MazdaStrider

Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.


Agreed. instead of having to build the whole thing, they can break up the project in many smaller projects. That would have made sense. Didn't SC already have a smaller project from I-95 to US 501 to be constructed first? if so, what happened to that?

I always believe that SCDOT should build I-73 from NC line to I-95 first to ensure a connection to a major interstate.

vdeane

Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.
Or maybe North Carolina can stop spamming unneeded interstates.  They're the ONLY state that cares about either I-73 or I-74, which tells me that those roads are nothing more than wasteful pork.  They can always use US and state route numbers for their freeways if they honestly feel the need to build that many.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

CanesFan27

Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.
Or maybe North Carolina can stop spamming unneeded interstates.  They're the ONLY state that cares about either I-73 or I-74, which tells me that those roads are nothing more than wasteful pork.  They can always use US and state route numbers for their freeways if they honestly feel the need to build that many.

If the road meets interstate standards and can be added/bolted on to the network - why not?  Reasons like above: read: "wah, I don't like it"

Please give me a reason why a road that meets or will meet standards and connects to the network should not be part of the Interstate system.

CanesFan27

Quote from: MazdaStrider on May 11, 2016, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.


Agreed. instead of having to build the whole thing, they can break up the project in many smaller projects. That would have made sense. Didn't SC already have a smaller project from I-95 to US 501 to be constructed first? if so, what happened to that?

I always believe that SCDOT should build I-73 from NC line to I-95 first to ensure a connection to a major interstate.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.

Best way to eat an elephant? One small bite at a time

Mapmikey

Quote from: MazdaStrider on May 11, 2016, 12:31:29 PM


Agreed. instead of having to build the whole thing, they can break up the project in many smaller projects. That would have made sense. Didn't SC already have a smaller project from I-95 to US 501 to be constructed first? if so, what happened to that?

I always believe that SCDOT should build I-73 from NC line to I-95 first to ensure a connection to a major interstate.

Virginia does do this...for projects that have some priority such as upgrading US 58 across the bottom of Virginia, which will have taken about 30 years after they first started doing it as a specific goal.  Virginia spent nearly 20 years not investing in any highway infrastructure once they 4-laned a lot of the US routes in the 70s-80s.  They got to the point where the budget wasn't even enough to keep up with maintenance of existing stuff.

The 2016 budget is a 20% increase over 2015 so that maybe some real improvements can be made on stuff.  But they have to prioritize based on need.  I-73 is a nice-to-have but not a got-to-have when compared to stuff needed in Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia.

I see that NCDOT's budget is substantially less than VDOT's now.  How does NCDOT get the $ to steadily build these new freeway segments?  Does it come at the expense of doing almost nothing else?  Does it come through substantial borrowing?


vdeane

Quote from: CanesFan27 on May 11, 2016, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.
Or maybe North Carolina can stop spamming unneeded interstates.  They're the ONLY state that cares about either I-73 or I-74, which tells me that those roads are nothing more than wasteful pork.  They can always use US and state route numbers for their freeways if they honestly feel the need to build that many.

If the road meets interstate standards and can be added/bolted on to the network - why not?  Reasons like above: read: "wah, I don't like it"

Please give me a reason why a road that meets or will meet standards and connects to the network should not be part of the Interstate system.
They should also be a logical addition, which to me would be connecting an area that currently is not (3di) or serving a major corridor that was left out and is a "hole" in the system (2di or 3di, depending on length).

An interstate isn't just a route that happens to meet some standards and have a certain shield.  It's a component in a larger, grander, and (ideally) orderly system of roadways efficiently forming the backbone of car/truck transportation in this country.  Also, I ABHOR duplicating 2dis; I consider the existing ones to be abominations and hate attempts to make more, so I-74 rubs me the wrong way.  I-73 I don't care as much about, but the portions that don't overlap I-74 are small enough to be 3dis (plus the proposed overlap with I-75 to Canada makes me want to throw up).  Heck, there are even proposed routes serving corridors that already have a SHORTER existing route (ever hear of Continental 1?).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

CanesFan27

Let me get this straight you dislike duplication and want to adhere to the grid?

vdeane

I never said anything about the grid (the complaint about the I-73/I-75 overlap is because I hate useless overlaps), though I do prefer to preserve the spirit of it, but don't care about minor bends where needed (no to I-3 in Georgia, but yes to I-99 if it ever gets built in full; if not, decommission, or renumber as a 3di if either the interchange at I-76 or I-80 is ever redone), but yes, I DESPISE 2di duplication.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

LM117

Quote from: MazdaStrider on May 11, 2016, 12:31:29 PMDidn't SC already have a smaller project from I-95 to US 501 to be constructed first? if so, what happened to that?

Politics happened. 

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/politics/2016/02/18/senator-throws-monkey-wrench--73/80548832/
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Strider

Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 11, 2016, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 07:02:51 AM
"So VA only has to build..."

The Oct 2012 cost estimate for building I-73 from Roanoke to NC was $4 billion...

Virginia's FY 2016 budget for VDOT is $5.3 billion.  So unless Congress drops a ton of gold bricks on this project, Virginia won't be getting around to this very soon based on its actual need for this highway versus pressing needs statewide, such as getting around to replacing literally hundreds of bridges that are 70+ years old. 

My guess is that VDOT might build the piece from NC to US 58 first once NC gets I-73 closer to Virginia, although 2015 AADT of US 220 south of the Martinsville Bypass tops out at just 19k.

That's the problem with both Virginia and South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it.  They should take notes from North Carolina, who has broken up the project into many smaller projects that suddenly become stretches of interstate.  Virginia could start with the state line to Martinsville and get the ball rolling.
Or maybe North Carolina can stop spamming unneeded interstates.  They're the ONLY state that cares about either I-73 or I-74, which tells me that those roads are nothing more than wasteful pork.  They can always use US and state route numbers for their freeways if they honestly feel the need to build that many.


Wrong. NC is not the only state. VA and SC does. (politics delayed the construction in VA and SC due to no money). Get your facts right.

Jmiles32

Regarding I-73 I can understand why VA has broken ground yet as it is 4 billion to build ONLY up to Roanoke. Widening I-81 and 220 would be just as beneficial and a lot cheaper. As for SC,  I-73 would finally be an intereste connection to Myrtle Beach which SC desperately needs so honestly not really sure why this road isn't already built there. Get on it SC!
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

74/171FAN

#667
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 11, 2016, 01:14:52 PM
Quote from: MazdaStrider on May 11, 2016, 12:31:29 PM


Agreed. instead of having to build the whole thing, they can break up the project in many smaller projects. That would have made sense. Didn't SC already have a smaller project from I-95 to US 501 to be constructed first? if so, what happened to that?

I always believe that SCDOT should build I-73 from NC line to I-95 first to ensure a connection to a major interstate.

Virginia does do this...for projects that have some priority such as upgrading US 58 across the bottom of Virginia, which will have taken about 30 years after they first started doing it as a specific goal.  Virginia spent nearly 20 years not investing in any highway infrastructure once they 4-laned a lot of the US routes in the 70s-80s.  They got to the point where the budget wasn't even enough to keep up with maintenance of existing stuff.

The 2016 budget is a 20% increase over 2015 so that maybe some real improvements can be made on stuff.  But they have to prioritize based on need.  I-73 is a nice-to-have but not a got-to-have when compared to stuff needed in Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia.

I see that NCDOT's budget is substantially less than VDOT's now.  How does NCDOT get the $ to steadily build these new freeway segments?  Does it come at the expense of doing almost nothing else?  Does it come through substantial borrowing?

That is a super-interesting question.  I had an internship for NCDOT in 2013, and I remember that south of Raleigh and Garner there were many two-lane roads (NC 55 and US 401 being the major exceptions) that seemed to be super-congested (mostly where NC 540 has not been built).  (I was temporarily living on NC 50 just north of NC 42, and traffic on NC 50 coming home was brutal coming south of Garner.  (the congestion on I-40 from I-440/US 64 (Exit 301) to the US 70/Fut I-36? Clayton Bypass (Exit 309) did not help for the record.)

Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2016, 02:12:00 PM
I never said anything about the grid (the complaint about the I-73/I-75 overlap is because I hate useless overlaps), though I do prefer to preserve the spirit of it, but don't care about minor bends where needed (no to I-3 in Georgia, but yes to I-99 if it ever gets built in full; if not, decommission, or renumber as a 3di if either the interchange at I-76 or I-80 is ever redone), but yes, I DESPISE 2di duplication.

I think that more states should follow Maryland's example with leaving I-595 unsigned, but I think the real problem here is that politicians seem to falsely believe that the interstate shield itself automatically brings economic development and gets people and truckers to drive the interstate over other routes.  (where in the case of Future I-89 those that completely follow the GPS would most likely still use I-95 to US 58 from Rocky Mount to Norfolk instead of US 64 and US 17 (Fut I-89?)).  I also remember Google maps stating that Greensboro to Blacksburg was faster via Winston-Salem and Mt Airy (I-40 to US 52/Fut I-74 to I-74 to I-77 to I-81 to US 460) than Roanoke (US 220/Fut I-73 to I-81). This of course only applies if I-73 gets to Blacksburg but that is beside the point.  (note that when I put this in during rush hour affecting the times which is why VA 8 may be shown as the fastest)

Of course, I would not say I am against new interstates necessarily either, but I do agree with Valerie that the value of the interstate system is being diluted.  (similar to having the first round of the NBA playoffs, expansion of the MLB and NFL Playoffs, all which make the regular season less important in the grand scheme of things)
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

vdeane

Quote from: Jmiles32 on May 11, 2016, 03:39:24 PM
Regarding I-73 I can understand why VA has broken ground yet as it is 4 billion to build ONLY up to Roanoke. Widening I-81 and 220 would be just as beneficial and a lot cheaper. As for SC,  I-73 would finally be an intereste connection to Myrtle Beach which SC desperately needs so honestly not really sure why this road isn't already built there. Get on it SC!
That connection strikes me as being more logically an extension of I-20.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

LM117

Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 11, 2016, 05:52:18 PM(where in the case of Future I-89 those that completely follow the GPS would most likely still use I-95 to US 58 from Rocky Mount to Norfolk instead of US 64 and US 17 (Fut I-89?)).

Yeah, but the Future I-89 route avoids the US-58 speed traps.  :spin:
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

wdcrft63

Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
Or maybe North Carolina can stop spamming unneeded interstates.  They're the ONLY state that cares about either I-73 or I-74, which tells me that those roads are nothing more than wasteful pork.  They can always use US and state route numbers for their freeways if they honestly feel the need to build that many.

North Carolina has spent a great many years and a great many dollars developing a freeway system that reaches every part of the state. These freeways certainly aren't "unneeded." I-73 and I-74 are important parts of this system, addressing the central and southeastern parts of the state. Furthermore, they aren't abstract lines on the map (like a lot of I-69), they are real roads that are being built and will be completed. The proposed I-36 and I-89 similarly address the eastern and northeastern parts of the state. I-36 is being built, and a large part of I-89 is already built although it needs some upgrading to full interstate standards.

It would be great to have a national study identifying the gaps in the interstate system, but it wouldn't be of much use unless Congress was willing to put some new funds into filling those gaps. Failing that, states are largely on their own to plan and build improvements to the system. Some states don't want to make any expansion, and some do (Kentucky, Arkansas,...). IMHO the ones that do shouldn't pay any attention to criticism from the ones that don't. Keep building.

Jmiles32

Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 11, 2016, 07:20:16 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2016, 12:57:18 PM
Or maybe North Carolina can stop spamming unneeded interstates.  They're the ONLY state that cares about either I-73 or I-74, which tells me that those roads are nothing more than wasteful pork.  They can always use US and state route numbers for their freeways if they honestly feel the need to build that many.

North Carolina has spent a great many years and a great many dollars developing a freeway system that reaches every part of the state. These freeways certainly aren't "unneeded." I-73 and I-74 are important parts of this system, addressing the central and southeastern parts of the state. Furthermore, they aren't abstract lines on the map (like a lot of I-69), they are real roads that are being built and will be completed. The proposed I-36 and I-89 similarly address the eastern and northeastern parts of the state. I-36 is being built, and a large part of I-89 is already built although it needs some upgrading to full interstate standards.

It would be great to have a national study identifying the gaps in the interstate system, but it wouldn't be of much use unless Congress was willing to put some new funds into filling those gaps. Failing that, states are largely on their own to plan and build improvements to the system. Some states don't want to make any expansion, and some do (Kentucky, Arkansas,...). IMHO the ones that do shouldn't pay any attention to criticism from the ones that don't. Keep building.


Yes but it is equally as important to actually finish these new interstates, not just saying your going to build them to trick businesses into locating in the economically depressed areas of your state.
Believe me I am all for new interstates, but let's actually finish them.
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

Mapmikey

#672
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2016, 06:14:58 PM


That connection strikes me as being more logically an extension of I-20.


SC tried to get federal money to specifically do this in 1986 but was not successful.

Given that Myrtle Beach is visited by many people from up north including a large Canadian presence, an expressway route from the northwest makes some sense and they're not that far from it now with SC 22, US 501, and SC 38.

North Carolina is definitely a big believer in the interstate shield meaning something.  Otherwise they wouldn't be going to the trouble of converting so many already-existing freeways that while some are not technically built to a modern interstate standard are plenty modern enough to function as through freeways.  So I might question the need to spend $ to upgrade existing freeways that are perfectly fine, while substandard interstates like I-95 and I-40 west of Hickory don't get very much love.

As a thought exercise I tried to eliminate the need for interstate numbering entirely and just move the US route number onto it and only a handful of new US route numbers (or extensions) would've been needed to cover the entirety of the 2di network.

No matter what grid you dream up for any sort of highway system on any level, it will eventually have to be violated (some states' original grid systems were obsolete quite early: NC by the early 1930s, Virginia by 1928).  But a grid system is not necessary for the motoring public.  Plenty of states have no discernible primary grid system and people seem to get around. Well except for the NCDOT commenters who would I guess when trying to use I-44 leaving Raleigh would wonder how many times they have to drive by Garner before they reach Norfolk.

It's rules like the US routes can't be intrastate that make no sense to me.  It's a system.  Some logical connections within that system necessarily must be within the boundaries of a state.  It certainly wouldn't make sense if that rule were on the state level - that all state routes must cross a county line.  And if connections on the interstate system (i.e. 3di's) can be comically short, what's the difference?

vdeane

Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 11, 2016, 07:20:16 PM
Furthermore, they aren't abstract lines on the map (like a lot of I-69), they are real roads that are being built and will be completed.
Not outside of NC they aren't.  I-73 and I-74 will NEVER EVER be built in WV and OH, and I'm not holding my breath on VA and SC (though I expect SC will get to it eventually).  The two I-74s will NEVER connect, and that doesn't sit well with me.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

The Ghostbuster

In Fictional Highways, 73 and 74 can be renumbered easily. In the real world, however, the two numbers are set in stone.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.