New Hampshire

[abqtraveler]

Has there been anything official concerning New Hampshire changing its exits from sequential to mile-based? I recall last year that the Governor is opposed to renumbering exits, and the Legislature was pushing through a bill to make the change happen. I haven't seen anything recently, but would just like to see if someone knows what's going on with exit numbering in Hew Hampshire.

[SectorZ]

Has there been anything official concerning New Hampshire changing its exits from sequential to mile-based? I recall last year that the Governor is opposed to renumbering exits, and the Legislature was pushing through a bill to make the change happen. I haven't seen anything recently, but would just like to see if someone knows what's going on with exit numbering in Hew Hampshire.

I've not seen anything at all since December 2019. The only concrete thing I can find that confirms its not happening anytime soon is the state's advertised bid calendar, which goes to September 2022, has nothing about changing exit numbers on it. So, assuming nothing before 2023 at least.

[bob7374]

Has there been anything official concerning New Hampshire changing its exits from sequential to mile-based? I recall last year that the Governor is opposed to renumbering exits, and the Legislature was pushing through a bill to make the change happen. I haven't seen anything recently, but would just like to see if someone knows what's going on with exit numbering in Hew Hampshire.

I've not seen anything at all since December 2019. The only concrete thing I can find that confirms its not happening anytime soon is the state's advertised bid calendar, which goes to September 2022, has nothing about changing exit numbers on it. So, assuming nothing before 2023 at least.

I looked through the NHDOT 10 Year Plan, no mention of exit renumbering. I then looks a another document listing project changes and found this under Governor's Office - Project Recommendations, p. 7:
"Statewide 40915 Remove Project 40915 - Exit sign renumbering along tier 1 highways to comply
with MUTCD $952,754
Project removed from the TYP and moved fund to the HSIP
Programmatic by Phase and FY"

On his transmittal letter with the approved Draft 10 Year Plan the governor only disagrees with 1 project, exit renumbering:
"Exit numbers are a point of pride for many of us in New Hampshire, and exits we use say something about us and our communities. Changing exit numbers is unnecessarily burdensome for business owners and citizens, and the State already uses mile markers along the highways for reference by travelers. Accordingly, I have removed this project (Statewide 40915) from my version of the 10-Year Plan."

These items available at: https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/projectdevelopment/planning/typ/index.htm

Looks like NH will have to wait for a new governor to make any progress on exit renumbering.

[abqtraveler]

Has there been anything official concerning New Hampshire changing its exits from sequential to mile-based? I recall last year that the Governor is opposed to renumbering exits, and the Legislature was pushing through a bill to make the change happen. I haven't seen anything recently, but would just like to see if someone knows what's going on with exit numbering in Hew Hampshire.

I've not seen anything at all since December 2019. The only concrete thing I can find that confirms its not happening anytime soon is the state's advertised bid calendar, which goes to September 2022, has nothing about changing exit numbers on it. So, assuming nothing before 2023 at least.

I looked through the NHDOT 10 Year Plan, no mention of exit renumbering. I then looks a another document listing project changes and found this under Governor's Office - Project Recommendations, p. 7:
"Statewide 40915 Remove Project 40915 - Exit sign renumbering along tier 1 highways to comply
with MUTCD $952,754
Project removed from the TYP and moved fund to the HSIP
Programmatic by Phase and FY"

On his transmittal letter with the approved Draft 10 Year Plan the governor only disagrees with 1 project, exit renumbering:
"Exit numbers are a point of pride for many of us in New Hampshire, and exits we use say something about us and our communities. Changing exit numbers is unnecessarily burdensome for business owners and citizens, and the State already uses mile markers along the highways for reference by travelers. Accordingly, I have removed this project (Statewide 40915) from my version of the 10-Year Plan."

These items available at: https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/projectdevelopment/planning/typ/index.htm

Looks like NH will have to wait for a new governor to make any progress on exit renumbering.

Or the FHWA making good on its threat to withhold federal highway funds from New Hampshire would ultimately force the governor's hand to convert to mile-based exit numbering.

[SectorZ]

Has there been anything official concerning New Hampshire changing its exits from sequential to mile-based? I recall last year that the Governor is opposed to renumbering exits, and the Legislature was pushing through a bill to make the change happen. I haven't seen anything recently, but would just like to see if someone knows what's going on with exit numbering in Hew Hampshire.

I've not seen anything at all since December 2019. The only concrete thing I can find that confirms its not happening anytime soon is the state's advertised bid calendar, which goes to September 2022, has nothing about changing exit numbers on it. So, assuming nothing before 2023 at least.

I looked through the NHDOT 10 Year Plan, no mention of exit renumbering. I then looks a another document listing project changes and found this under Governor's Office - Project Recommendations, p. 7:
"Statewide 40915 Remove Project 40915 - Exit sign renumbering along tier 1 highways to comply
with MUTCD $952,754
Project removed from the TYP and moved fund to the HSIP
Programmatic by Phase and FY"

On his transmittal letter with the approved Draft 10 Year Plan the governor only disagrees with 1 project, exit renumbering:
"Exit numbers are a point of pride for many of us in New Hampshire, and exits we use say something about us and our communities. Changing exit numbers is unnecessarily burdensome for business owners and citizens, and the State already uses mile markers along the highways for reference by travelers. Accordingly, I have removed this project (Statewide 40915) from my version of the 10-Year Plan."

These items available at: https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/projectdevelopment/planning/typ/index.htm

Looks like NH will have to wait for a new governor to make any progress on exit renumbering.

Or the FHWA making good on its threat to withhold federal highway funds from New Hampshire would ultimately force the governor's hand to convert to mile-based exit numbering.

I'm curious about this. Not to get political but I will have a point to the thread here in doing so; the last administration didn't seem interested in pushing states to get this done (though some idiots on Cape Cod blamed the last president for the exit numbers on US 6 getting changed). Don't even know if this is a D/R thing or just in general at the whim of one's opinion.

I haven't seen anything from the Biden administration at all in regards to how hard (if at all) they're going to ask the stragglers to get this done. Since the edict started in 2009, under then VP Biden, I'd imagine his opinion will be similar to that of the administration he served under as VP.

[billpa]

"Exit numbers are a point of pride for many of us in New Hampshire, and exits we use say something about us and our communities. Changing exit numbers is unnecessarily burdensome for business owners and citizens, and the State already uses mile markers along the highways for reference by travelers. Accordingly, I have removed this project (Statewide 40915) from my version of the 10-Year Plan."

These items available at: https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/projectdevelopment/planning/typ/index.htm

Looks like NH will have to wait for a new governor to make any progress on exit renumbering.

That might be the dumbest thing I've read in quite some time.

Pixel 2

[abqtraveler]

"Exit numbers are a point of pride for many of us in New Hampshire, and exits we use say something about us and our communities. Changing exit numbers is unnecessarily burdensome for business owners and citizens, and the State already uses mile markers along the highways for reference by travelers. Accordingly, I have removed this project (Statewide 40915) from my version of the 10-Year Plan."

These items available at: https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/projectdevelopment/planning/typ/index.htm

Looks like NH will have to wait for a new governor to make any progress on exit renumbering.

That might be the dumbest thing I've read in quite some time.

Pixel 2

The New Hampshire governor's reasoning is the same as the opposition to Cape Cod: "We like our exit numbers and we're not gonna change."

[storm2k]

I've never understood the obstinance on exit numbers, and I'm from the state where the joke "What Exit?" is a way of life. There is a very logical reason that they want this everywhere.

I'll be very interested if the FHWA goes through with withholding funding and the state sues.

If PA, MA, and even CA--which has been doing its own thing for signage since the dawn of the superhighway era--can get with the program, why can't NH?

[abqtraveler]

I've never understood the obstinance on exit numbers, and I'm from the state where the joke "What Exit?" is a way of life. There is a very logical reason that they want this everywhere.

I'll be very interested if the FHWA goes through with withholding funding and the state sues.

If PA, MA, and even CA--which has been doing its own thing for signage since the dawn of the superhighway era--can get with the program, why can't NH?

Even New York is jumping on the exit renumbering bandwagon, although the conversion to mileage based exit numbers statewide will likely move at glacial speed. As we've seen with the recent renumbering of I-84, it looks like New York will renumber exits when signs along a given highway are due to be replaced.

[Rothman]

I've never understood the obstinance on exit numbers, and I'm from the state where the joke "What Exit?" is a way of life. There is a very logical reason that they want this everywhere.

I'll be very interested if the FHWA goes through with withholding funding and the state sues.

If PA, MA, and even CA--which has been doing its own thing for signage since the dawn of the superhighway era--can get with the program, why can't NH?

Even New York is jumping on the exit renumbering bandwagon, although the conversion to mileage based exit numbers statewide will likely move at glacial speed. As we've seen with the recent renumbering of I-84, it looks like New York will renumber exits when signs along a given highway are due to be replaced.

NYSDOT, but not NYSTA, where the renumbering is actually needed the most. 

[storm2k]

I've never understood the obstinance on exit numbers, and I'm from the state where the joke "What Exit?" is a way of life. There is a very logical reason that they want this everywhere.

I'll be very interested if the FHWA goes through with withholding funding and the state sues.

If PA, MA, and even CA--which has been doing its own thing for signage since the dawn of the superhighway era--can get with the program, why can't NH?

Even New York is jumping on the exit renumbering bandwagon, although the conversion to mileage based exit numbers statewide will likely move at glacial speed. As we've seen with the recent renumbering of I-84, it looks like New York will renumber exits when signs along a given highway are due to be replaced.

NYSDOT, but not NYSTA, where the renumbering is actually needed the most. 

NYSTA is going to stay in solidarity with the NJ Turnpike Authority and resist renumbering until they're basically made to, and given that neither gets any federal highway money at all, there's not a lot that will make them do it unless some sort of provisions get tucked into a federal law somewhere.

[abqtraveler]

I've never understood the obstinance on exit numbers, and I'm from the state where the joke "What Exit?" is a way of life. There is a very logical reason that they want this everywhere.

I'll be very interested if the FHWA goes through with withholding funding and the state sues.

If PA, MA, and even CA--which has been doing its own thing for signage since the dawn of the superhighway era--can get with the program, why can't NH?

Even New York is jumping on the exit renumbering bandwagon, although the conversion to mileage based exit numbers statewide will likely move at glacial speed. As we've seen with the recent renumbering of I-84, it looks like New York will renumber exits when signs along a given highway are due to be replaced.

NYSDOT, but not NYSTA, where the renumbering is actually needed the most. 

NYSTA is going to stay in solidarity with the NJ Turnpike Authority and resist renumbering until they're basically made to, and given that neither gets any federal highway money at all, there's not a lot that will make them do it unless some sort of provisions get tucked into a federal law somewhere.

IIRC, NYSTA did get some federal money to help pay for the replacement of the Tappan Zee Bridge. Otherwise, I would agree that it would be a very long time before you see exits on the Thruway change. NYSDOT will need to do some math to figure out what the exit numbers for the sections of I-87 and I-90 that fall outside the Thruway system.

[billpa]

It would be one thing if the NH governor just made some logical argument about not wanting to change the exit signage or something, but his quasi-patriotic-like rant sounds so ridiculous I now want the federal government to force them to change no later than the end of 2021.

Pixel 2

[Rothman]

I've never understood the obstinance on exit numbers, and I'm from the state where the joke "What Exit?" is a way of life. There is a very logical reason that they want this everywhere.

I'll be very interested if the FHWA goes through with withholding funding and the state sues.

If PA, MA, and even CA--which has been doing its own thing for signage since the dawn of the superhighway era--can get with the program, why can't NH?

Even New York is jumping on the exit renumbering bandwagon, although the conversion to mileage based exit numbers statewide will likely move at glacial speed. As we've seen with the recent renumbering of I-84, it looks like New York will renumber exits when signs along a given highway are due to be replaced.

NYSDOT, but not NYSTA, where the renumbering is actually needed the most. 

NYSTA is going to stay in solidarity with the NJ Turnpike Authority and resist renumbering until they're basically made to, and given that neither gets any federal highway money at all, there's not a lot that will make them do it unless some sort of provisions get tucked into a federal law somewhere.

IIRC, NYSTA did get some federal money to help pay for the replacement of the Tappan Zee Bridge. Otherwise, I would agree that it would be a very long time before you see exits on the Thruway change. NYSDOT will need to do some math to figure out what the exit numbers for the sections of I-87 and I-90 that fall outside the Thruway system.

That money has come and gone.  The leverage FHWA had is no longer there.  Thruway's not changing any time soon.

[shadyjay]

Looks like all-electronic tolling is being planned for the Spaulding.....

https://www.dot.nh.gov/news-and-media/dover-combined-public-officialspublic-informational-meeting

AND

http://www.nhaet.com/

[deathtopumpkins]

NHDOT's Ten Year Plan also includes funding for AET conversion at Bedford (2023-2024).

[mass_citizen]

"Exit numbers are a point of pride for many of us in New Hampshire, and exits we use say something about us and our communities. Changing exit numbers is unnecessarily burdensome for business owners and citizens, and the State already uses mile markers along the highways for reference by travelers. Accordingly, I have removed this project (Statewide 40915) from my version of the 10-Year Plan."

These items available at: https://www.nh.gov/dot/org/projectdevelopment/planning/typ/index.htm

Looks like NH will have to wait for a new governor to make any progress on exit renumbering.

That might be the dumbest thing I've read in quite some time.

Pixel 2

The New Hampshire governor's reasoning is the same as the opposition to Cape Cod: "We like our exit numbers and we're not gonna change."

Not to be argumentative, but can someone tell me why changing exit numbers is still a priority in the age of GPS and in-car navigation? No one drives around using maps or paper mapquest directions anymore. The so called advantage of knowing the mileage to your exit just doesn't exist anymore. Locals who use the road everyday don't need the information or they already know it by heart, and those who are unfamiliar with the area are undoubtedly using GPS. And the line about future interchanges is just a stretch in my opinion. How often are interchanges added these days? The practice of adding a letter after an interchange number is still done with the mileage based system, especially in urban areas. It all just doesn't seem to be worth the money or effort in my opinion other than because traffic engineers said so. I'd be curious to see if there's any recent science, research, or data showing that these changes are beneficial either from a safety or economic standpoint.

I'd argue there's an advantage of sequential numbering in knowing that your exit is next so you can prepare to safely move over. This doesn't exist in the mileage based system. With today's age of distracted driving, if I see I'm passing exit 5, and I'm getting off at exit 6, then its good to know that my exit is next and I can be on the lookout for guide signs for my exit. In the mileage system, if my exit is 26, and I'm passing exit 19, I have no idea how many exits are between exit 19 and my exit (26). Yes I know the mileage, but that now requires me to either look at my odometer constantly or look at the much smaller mileage signs on the side of the road, many of which aren't maintained. Since GPS already tells me how many miles to my exit, knowing that my exit is next, or that it's two exits away, etc. is a much more valuable piece of information to have. And in the rare case of a gap in sequence, large warning signs are already used to state that there is "No Exit XX".

My two cents. Hope this doesn't cause a storm here.

[ran4sh]

I'd argue there's an advantage of sequential numbering in knowing that your exit is next so you can prepare to safely move over. This doesn't exist in the mileage based system.

You would be wrong. Obviously.

In the consecutive numbering system you know that your exit is (probably) next, but what the f does that even mean? It could be 5 miles, it could be 3 miles, it could be 8 miles, it could be 1 mile, it could be 0.5 mile, it could be 0.2 mile, etc.

And it could even *not* be the next exit, in case there is an "A" exit that is there because it is a new interchange that was added later.

In the real world, we see the "2 mile" advance guide sign and we start getting in the proper lane for the exit, followed by the "1 mile" sign and then the exit itself.

As a Georgia resident I have lived with both systems. 2 decades after Georgia changed its exit numbers, I have no reason to care what the old ones were.

[Rothman]

As someone who drives long distance frequently (as a lot of us on here do), the advantage of mileage-based exit numbering is almost childishly obvious, even in the era of GPS and cell phones. When you're driving, you're not a slave to the GPS all the time -- that would actually be dangerous.  So, knowing what exit you'll be getting off at and knowing the distance and therefore the time in less than a second of mental effort is just a tremendous convenience and takes a burden off of the driver.

Whenever I come back to NY and the idiotic sequential exit numbering -- especially on the Thruway -- I actually think it's an embarrassment.  Sequential exit numbering is a clear indicator of an imbecilic neanderthal society rather than one that has truly entered the 20th century, no sic intended.  Leaving the driver to guess the distance between exits is just stupid.

ETA:  For someone from MA to say that sequential numbering allows you to know when you need to move over causes me to facepalm.  Sure, move over between Exits 2 and 3 on the Pike...it's only 30 miles!

[vdeane]

And in the rare case of a gap in sequence, large warning signs are already used to state that there is "No Exit XX".

Those signs are only used in MA and RI - so once those states finish converting, they'll be used nowhere.  The Northway had "exit 3 to be built" signs at one time, but those were eventually removed.  And they're not uniform in MA, either (see: the Big Dig).

[74/171FAN]

For a personal experience on the use of mile-based exits, in 2014, I was driving my friends along I-64 WB east of Lexington, KY, on the way to a wedding in Florence, KY.  With mile-based exits, I was able to determine what time we would get to our hotel (minus accidents or congestion which did not happen in this scenario) just by having my friends read a Kentucky State Map and using the relevant exit numbers on I-64 and I-75.

[fwydriver405]

And in the rare case of a gap in sequence, large warning signs are already used to state that there is "No Exit XX".

Those signs are only used in MA and RI - so once those states finish converting, they'll be used nowhere.  The Northway had "exit 3 to be built" signs at one time, but those were eventually removed.  And they're not uniform in MA, either (see: the Big Dig).

Actually, some of those "Next Exit XX" signs were reused as part of MA's exit renumbering scheme.

Route 3: 1, 2

This blank "Next Exit" sign on 195

[Alps]

You would be wrong. Obviously.

Enough. From everyone. Numbers are getting converted, both sides have made their point, we move on.

[fwydriver405]

Is NHDOT utilising part-time AET at all of its toll facilities during the night period (9pm-5 or 6am) currently? I've noticed the following since mid-February 2021:

- On my trips within the past two weeks coming from Boston back to Maine at like 9 PM, at the Hampton Toll Plaza, the only toll booth lane open was an "E-ZPass Only" lane... not a single cash lane in either direction. I don't know if this also applied to the toll plaza at the I-95/NH101 interchange.

- Though not the same thing, on my trips from Nashua and heading north via the Everett Turnpike, also around the 8-9 PM hour, usually, Exit 10 only has the coin basket (exact change) and "E-ZPass Only" lanes open during the night period... I'm not positive on this but at one instance I only saw the E-ZPass lanes open on that toll booth.

I'm not sure if this "part-time" AET is also in effect at the Bedford, Hooksett, Dover or Rochester Toll Plazas. Wonder if it's due to a staffing shortage (or no night workers/COVID policy) or a pilot project...

[SectorZ]

Is NHDOT utilising part-time AET at all of its toll facilities during the night period (9pm-5 or 6am) currently? I've noticed the following since mid-February 2021:

- On my trips within the past two weeks coming from Boston back to Maine at like 9 PM, at the Hampton Toll Plaza, the only toll booth lane open was an "E-ZPass Only" lane... not a single cash lane in either direction. I don't know if this also applied to the toll plaza at the I-95/NH101 interchange.

- Though not the same thing, on my trips from Nashua and heading north via the Everett Turnpike, also around the 8-9 PM hour, usually, Exit 10 only has the coin basket (exact change) and "E-ZPass Only" lanes open during the night period... I'm not positive on this but at one instance I only saw the E-ZPass lanes open on that toll booth.

I'm not sure if this "part-time" AET is also in effect at the Bedford, Hooksett, Dover or Rochester Toll Plazas. Wonder if it's due to a staffing shortage (or no night workers/COVID policy) or a pilot project...

I don't know about Hampton, but the exit 10 tolls have been exact change/E-Z Pass only overnight for as far back as I can remember. They were exact change/tokens only overnight long before E-Z Pass even existed. Same with exit 11 when it had tolls IIRC.

They also did have layoffs of toll collection staff due to Covid, as I actually know someone who took it as a part-time job in February 2020 to only lose the gig two months later.