America's Main Street?

[thspfc]

WTF are we on about now?  If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y, and Y is concurrent with X.  Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X.  What definition of "concurrent" are you using?

Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent

Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.

This is a question I can maybe entertain.  First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency.  But I'll make up my own reason.  It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments.  If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter.  So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden.  But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two.  How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria?  You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.

Natural barriers are not a factor in the case of I-76. If the DOT's from Ohio to Nebraska wanted to connect the I-76s, they could realistically do so, at least until Lincoln, NE, at which point it would start to become very redundant. Would that ever actually happen? Most likely not, but it is possible. Whereas with I-90, it's not possible nor logical for it to have a routing that does not have a concurrency with I-80. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but TL;DR, I see I-90 as one route, with a significant number of cross-country travelers along its entire route, with a long concurrency due to terrain, whereas I see I-76 as two seperate segments that don't currently need to be connected.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

My definition of Main Street USA is different. It is based on this map:


Therefore, my definition doesn't include one single highway, but rather a series of highways. Currently I define Main Street USA as connecting New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles on I-78, I-76, I-81, I-80 (including the "useless" Indiana section, below), the other I-76, I-70, I-15 and I-10. I also define a branch from Big Springs NE to Portland on I-80 and I-84. I may also include a Southern route along I-81 and I-40.

Heh, that would make CNGL's head explode since he's been railing about I-80 being the useless one of the duo (plus the 80/94 pairing) all these years.

I-80 is only useless in Indiana, not in the long I-90 concurrency.

[Rothman]

No.  I-90 is concurrent with I-80.

So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?

It's just common sense.

[GaryV]

No.  I-90 is concurrent with I-80.

So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?

It's just common sense.

Which route's mile markers continue on the concurrent stretch?

[hotdogPi]

No.  I-90 is concurrent with I-80.

So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?

It's just common sense.

Which route's mile markers continue on the concurrent stretch?

Numbering has nothing to do with which one is the main road. Long-distance traffic counts do. Typically, the lower number takes priority with mile and exit numbering. Fortunately, Virginia correctly says that I-95 is primary over I-64 and I-81 is primary over I-64 and I-77 and keeps the higher number. Only the ambiguous situations, such as I-75/85 in Atlanta, should default to lower number taking priority.

I still don't know if I-80 or I-90 is more important on the overlap. I'm leaning toward I-80, as I-90 takes a hard 90° turn on the west end, and on the east end, I-80 goes toward NYC (and the first step to Philadelphia).

[hobsini2]

How about a different approach?
I would submit a route that changes characteristics from one end to the other, goes through the heart of several cities, has sections that are 2 lane rural highway to 8 lane expressway to a city boulevard, changes from swamps and marshes to rolling hills to some mountain areas. Crossing major rivers.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you US Highway 41.

Think about it.
The major cities of Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Nashville, Chicago and Milwaukee.
The minor cities of Naples, Ft Myers, Sarasota, Valdosta, Macon, Murfreesboro, Chattanooga, Hopkinsville, Henderson, Evansville, Terre Haute, Hammond, Waukegan, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton, Green Bay, Marinette and Marquette.
8 states in all.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

US 50 is a better cross-section in my opinion, but some might think the truncation out of San Francisco changes that.

[Max Rockatansky]

US 50 is a better cross-section in my opinion, but some might think the truncation out of San Francisco changes that.

If I was going to go for a current US Route I'd pick US 20 as my East/West.  You get a good sampling of everything in the country and it drops you off for a route gap in Yellowstone.

To that end to hit on what Oscar said, yes a lot of Main Street America was blighted by indirect cause of being bypassed.  Even still, I would argue that US Routes certainly better represent what was and definitely is a far better sampling of terrain variations.   

[sparker]

US 50 is a better cross-section in my opinion, but some might think the truncation out of San Francisco changes that.

If I was going to go for a current US Route I'd pick US 20 as my East/West.  You get a good sampling of everything in the country and it drops you off for a route gap in Yellowstone.

To that end to hit on what Oscar said, yes a lot of Main Street America was blighted by indirect cause of being bypassed.  Even still, I would argue that US Routes certainly better represent what was and definitely is a far better sampling of terrain variations.   

If we're going to extend the concept to US highways, I'd submit US 30, which is signed to both coasts, as the route that most typifies the "main street" concept -- both in terms of the volume of traffic carried on either its specific facility or, in the case of states where there is a parallel/replacement Interstate (cf. NE), its direct replacement.  It traverses both major metro areas (Portland, Chicagoland, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia), smaller but significant cities (Boise, Pocatello, Cedar Rapids, Fort Wayne, Canton, Atlantic City) and one hell of a lot of small towns -- and suburbs -- along the way.   A little bit of everything, even on the segments where it rides atop I-84, I-86, etc. -- but most of the states it passes through have elected to maintain its separate alignment, at least partially in some instances.  The fact that it's reasonably and consistently signed from coast to coast is itself a modern miracle these days. 

[ChiMilNet]

I probably have to pick I-10, I-80 (this one while groaning), I-95, I-35, and I-5 all equally, and here's why...

I-80 goes through or quite close to New York, Cleveland, Toledo, Chicago, Des Moines, Omaha, Salt Lake City, Reno, Sacramento, Oakland, and San Francisco. From it, there are also single routes that provide direct connections to Philadelphia, Akron, Detroit, Ft. Wayne, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Denver, Fresno, and San Jose.

I-10 goes through or near Jacksonville, Tallahassee, Mobile, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Houston, San Antonio, El Paso, Tuscon, Phoenix, San Bernardino, and Los Angeles. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Miami, Atlanta, Montgomery, Shreveport, Austin, Albuquerque, Las Vegas, and San Diego.

I-95 goes through or near Miami, Jacksonville, Savannah, Richmond, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, New Haven, Providence, Boston, and Portland. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Orlando, Tampa, Columbia, Wilmington, Raleigh, Norfolk/Hampton Roads, Hartford, and then a direct connection to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, CA.

I-35 goes through or near Laredo, San Antonio, Austin, Waco, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas City, Des Moines, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Duluth. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Mexico, Houston, Tulsa, Topeka, St. Louis, Omaha, and Canada.

I-5 goes through or near San Diego, Anaheim, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Eugene, Salem, Portland, Tacoma, and Seattle. It also has routes from it that provide very direct connections to Tijuana (Mexico), Long Beach, Thousand Oaks, Bakersfield, Fresno, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, and Vancouver (Canada).

You could also make a good case for several others. I-40 would be a candidate but the largest city it serves is Nashville. I really wanted to include I-90 over I-80, but West of Chicago, really the next major metro area is at its end in Seattle, plus I-80 goes to New York. Finally, I-75 was the last one I had to eliminate. It serves some major areas such as Atlanta and Detroit, and its Southern stretch is busy and warrants those six lanes. However, I-95 ultimately, serves more larger cities directly throughout.

America is big, and honestly, picking just one "main street" is almost impossible. But if you look at these 5 routes, you see that many of the largest population centers are either directly serviced or have a direct connection to them.

[DTComposer]

No.  I-90 is concurrent with I-80.

So do you have any reasoning behind this, or are you just mad at I-90?

It's just common sense.

Which route's mile markers continue on the concurrent stretch?

Numbering has nothing to do with which one is the main road. Long-distance traffic counts do. Typically, the lower number takes priority with mile and exit numbering. Fortunately, Virginia correctly says that I-95 is primary over I-64 and I-81 is primary over I-64 and I-77 and keeps the higher number. Only the ambiguous situations, such as I-75/85 in Atlanta, should default to lower number taking priority.

I still don't know if I-80 or I-90 is more important on the overlap. I'm leaning toward I-80, as I-90 takes a hard 90° turn on the west end, and on the east end, I-80 goes toward NYC (and the first step to Philadelphia).

I don't feel too strongly about it either way, but if I'm just looking at a map, I-80 is the "primary" route since, as 1 says, I-90 has to take a significant "detour" to the south (on both ends) because of the Great Lakes while I-80 basically maintains its latitudinal position (granted, I-80 takes a similar southward dip on its west end, but it doesn't result in a concurrency).

Also, based on metro area endpoints, San Francisco-New York > Seattle-Boston.

***

Meanwhile, sorta along the lines of what ChiMilNet did, I took all the x5 and x0 Interstates and compared them against which of the 30 largest CSAs (which covers areas of 2.5 million people or more) they passed through.

Note: I picked CSAs as opposed to just MSAs because many of the 3dIs go beyond just the MSA. That said, it does create some possible anomalies, such as I-40 being counted for Los Angeles.

Top 5 unweighted (i.e., just by the number of areas they pass through):
1) I-70 (7)
T2) I-5, I-80 (6)
4) I-95 (5)
T5) I-10, I-35, I-75, I-90 (4)

Top 5 weighted (taking population of those areas into account):
1) I-95 (54.8M)
2) I-80 (50.9M)
3) I-5 (42.5M)
4) I-10 (33.6M)
(Basically a tie) 5) I-90 (26.6M), I-70 (26.4M)

So subjectively I call a tie between I-95 and I-80. I-95 not only because it connects over 50 million people, but it also connects the largest city and the capital and five of the top ten largest areas, plus it follows the historical backbone of the original colonies. I-80 because it also connects over 50 million people, connects three of the five largest areas, and is (basically) ocean-to-ocean.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Odd timing, but this newspaper makes an argument for US 12.

https://www.jamestownsun.com/lifestyle/travel/6722591-An-original-U.S.-route-holding-strong-as-it-approaches-100

[zzcarp]

This is a question I can maybe entertain.  First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency.  But I'll make up my own reason.  It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments.  If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter.  So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden.  But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two.  How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria?  You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.

The rationale for the 278-mile concurrency of I-80/90 is to have both x0 interstates be coast to coast on a semi-logical route, and it was planned basically this way from the beginning of the system.

The two I-76s have no such rationale, either historically or currently. I-76 only originally went from Pittsburgh to metro-Philadelphia, with the Pittsburgh-Lodi section of I-76 being I-80S. The western I-76 was also I-80S.

As it stands today, I-76 (east) doesn't end at I-80 and would require either new construction (I doubt Ohio's interested in extending an interstate standard I-76 based on its disinterest in the I-73/I-74 proposals) or some backtracking convoluted route to get back to I-80 just to have an over 1100 mile overlap?

Maybe as some super-fictional routing along US 30 to Fort Wayne, US 24/Hoosier Heartland to connect with I-74, redesignating all of I-72 and extending across Missouri on US 36, then north on I-29 to IA/NE 2 to reconnect with I-80 at Lincoln would give I-76 about a 300-mile overlap across Nebraska. If any of those roads are updated to Interstate standards, let's talk.

As for the thread, nationally my votes are for I-95 (connects the original 13 colonies) and I-80 (NYC to San Francisco plus being a busy freight corridor). Locally, I vote I-25 as it's the "Main Street" passing through the largest cities of Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico.

[Max Rockatansky]

Odd timing, but this newspaper makes an argument for US 12.

https://www.jamestownsun.com/lifestyle/travel/6722591-An-original-U.S.-route-holding-strong-as-it-approaches-100

While I think US 12 is a strong Route for variation I can't put it in the same category as US 20/30/50 given it has an eastern terminus only in Detroit. 

[skluth]

I nominate US 61. It connects several places where American music has its roots, from the French Quarter's New Orleans jazz through the Mississippi Delta blues of Clarksdale to Elvis's Sun Studio in Memphis to Scott Joplin and Chuck Berry's St Louis homes to Minneapolis and Duluth (albeit as MN 61) which gave us Prince and Bob Dylan (who both named an album and wrote a song about it) respectively. That makes it the birthplace of American jazz, blues, rock, ragtime, modern funk, and the merger of folk with rock (when Dylan went electric).

[Max Rockatansky]

I nominate US 61. It connects several places where American music has its roots, from the French Quarter's New Orleans jazz through the Mississippi Delta blues of Clarksdale to Elvis's Sun Studio in Memphis to Scott Joplin and Chuck Berry's St Louis homes to Minneapolis and Duluth (albeit as MN 61) which gave us Prince and Bob Dylan (who both named an album and wrote a song about it) respectively. That makes it the birthplace of American jazz, blues, rock, ragtime, modern funk, and the merger of folk with rock (when Dylan went electric).

US 61 would probably be it for historic north/south highways.   I think US 41 has it beat right now given it does reach the Canadian Border anymore. 

[danzarblx]

Kind of hard to pick one, i'd personally say I-10, 35, and 80

although I may replace 80 with 70 or something

[I-55]

I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).

West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)

Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)

Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).

Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).

Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.

[sparker]

WTF are we on about now?  If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y, and Y is concurrent with X.  Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X.  What definition of "concurrent" are you using?

Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent

Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.

This is a question I can maybe entertain.  First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency.  But I'll make up my own reason.  It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments.  If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter.  So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden.  But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two.  How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria?  You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.

The singular issue with the western I-76 is that the numbering, not coincidentally in 1976, was because of (a) the pending renumbering of all suffixed routes like the 80S it replaced, and (b) although "grid-appropriate" per se, its number was selected to honor Colorado's centennial, again coincidentally with the nation's bicentennial (the Colorado media plus their congressional delegation stated so at the time!).  It's a short albeit vital connector (pretty much a portion of the shortest-mileage Interstate route from L.A. to Chicago) -- but that's about the end of it.  Speculation regarding connecting it to either the I-76/71 junction in OH or even somewhere in Chicagoland (considering an extension west along US 30) is simply gratuitous and overly literal (and certainly a subject more suited for Fictional). 

[I-55]

WTF are we on about now?  If X and Y are concurrent, then X is concurrent with Y, and Y is concurrent with X.  Never in my life have I heard the concept that X can be concurrent with Y without Y being concurrent with X.  What definition of "concurrent" are you using?

Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought it was a pretty simple concept: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concurrent

Seriously though, what is with all the hate towards the I-80/90 concurrency? There is a natural barrier called the Great Lakes. It's no different than the Rockies or Apps creating wacky alignments and concurrencies.

This is a question I can maybe entertain.  First of all, I wasn't aware of any hate towards the I-80/I-90 concurrency.  But I'll make up my own reason.  It's kind of inconsistent that I-80 is allowed to run coast-to-coast, but I-76 was split into two segments.  If it weren't for the part of I-76 that runs southwest of I-80 in Ohio, I-76 could have been concurrent with I-80 from western Nebraska to eastern Ohio, but that would be sign clutter.  So, some would argue that there should be two I-80s, just like there are two I-76s, 84s, 86s, 88s, and now even two I-87s all of a sudden.  But you could turn that around and say I-80 should have been the continuous route and I-90 should have been split into two.  How do you decide which is more worthy when there's no criteria?  You really can't choose fairly, and the only difference it would make is it would eliminate a lot of shields in Indiana and Ohio.

The singular issue with the western I-76 is that the numbering, not coincidentally in 1976, was because of (a) the pending renumbering of all suffixed routes like the 80S it replaced, and (b) although "grid-appropriate" per se, its number was selected to honor Colorado's centennial, again coincidentally with the nation's bicentennial (the Colorado media plus their congressional delegation stated so at the time!).  It's a short albeit vital connector (pretty much a portion of the shortest-mileage Interstate route from L.A. to Chicago) -- but that's about the end of it.  Speculation regarding connecting it to either the I-76/71 junction in OH or even somewhere in Chicagoland (considering an extension west along US 30) is simply gratuitous and overly literal (and certainly a subject more suited for Fictional).

I feel like the I-76 discussion comes up every month or so.

[Max Rockatansky]

I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).

West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)

Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)

Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).

Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).

Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.

What really hurts I-5 over US 99 is that it bypasses literally every important city and town by way of the West aside Freeway in California.  US 99 actually was nick named "The Main Street of California."    

[I-55]

I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).

West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)

Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)

Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).

Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).

Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.

What really hurts I-5 over US 99 is that it bypasses literally every important city and town by way of the West aside Freeway in California.  US 99 actually was nick named "The Main Street of California."  

When I was typing this I somehow forgot to consider California on the west coast. Oh well.

[skluth]

I nominate US 61. It connects several places where American music has its roots, from the French Quarter's New Orleans jazz through the Mississippi Delta blues of Clarksdale to Elvis's Sun Studio in Memphis to Scott Joplin and Chuck Berry's St Louis homes to Minneapolis and Duluth (albeit as MN 61) which gave us Prince and Bob Dylan (who both named an album and wrote a song about it) respectively. That makes it the birthplace of American jazz, blues, rock, ragtime, modern funk, and the merger of folk with rock (when Dylan went electric).

US 61 would probably be it for historic north/south highways.   I think US 41 has it beat right now given it does reach the Canadian Border anymore.

US 41 has some good music roots too, from Chicago's blues artists being the primary influence of early British rockers to country music's Grand Ole Opry in Nashville to the Allman Brothers originating Southern Rock in Georgia to today's huge Latin-based influences coming out of Miami. It also has a soft spot in my heart for going past Lambeau Field on Lombardi Avenue in my hometown when I was a kid. US 41 technically has never even reached Canada, but you can't really go further north on land from the Keweenaw Peninsula so I guess it's close enough. /wink

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

The answer for sure is I-80

[DTComposer]

I couldn't give a main street for the country as a whole, but I do have ideas for each region. (I don't want to have the region debate we had in off topic either).

West Coast: Definitely I-5, runs through most major cities (Portland, Seattle, Eugene, Salem)

Southwest: I say it's I-10 (San Antonio, Houston, Phoenix, El Paso)

Southeast: I-40 (Memphis, Nashville, Triad, Triangle). One could argue I-75 (Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Knoxville) or I-85 (Atlanta, Charlotte, Triangle, Richmond/Petersburg).

Midwest: I-94 (MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit). One could make an argument for I-70 as well (KC, STL, Indy, Columbus).

Mid Atlantic/New England: I won't state the obvious. If you want to say I'm referring to I-90 be my guest.

What really hurts I-5 over US 99 is that it bypasses literally every important city and town by way of the West aside Freeway in California.  US 99 actually was nick named "The Main Street of California."    

Sacramento and Stockton say hi, but your point is taken.