Major Toll Roads vs. Local Freeways

[vdeane]

Does anyone else differentiate major toll roads (ie, the ones with ticket systems or that used to have them) from the "local freeway system" of the area?  I was thinking about this today with respect to the Thruway.  I don't consider the sections that were part of the ticket system (so most of it) as being part of the "local freeway system" of wherever it travels.  The only exceptions are the parts near NYC south of the ticket system and the Buffalo free zone, to the extent that I don't even think of Depew as being part of the Buffalo area since it's off exit 49 instead of in the free zone (in my mind, you enter/leave the Buffalo area near I-290, more specifically, where the Williamsville toll barrier was).  Likewise, Schenectady feels like something separate from the rest of the Capital District, because you have to take the Thruway or local streets to get there.  And if I'm traveling to the south end of Albany, I take I-90/I-787 so I can take the "local freeway system" even though the Thruway is slightly faster.

Does anyone else do this with the toll roads in their area?

[Rothman]

Wonder if this is a NY thing.  There is a difference felt between the other freeways and the Thruway.

It's a different difference that was felt between freeways and the Pike in MA.

Too late at night for me to put my finger on what the difference in the differences are tonight.

[vdeane]

Having to go through a trumpet interchange with toll booths certainly led to a "gateway" effect and made it feel more like a closed system.  This is still true when you remember where they used to be, especially with the gantries configured similarly.  The fact that signage and road geometry standards are slightly different has an impact too (no reference markers too).

I feel similar effects to the Thruway with the MassPike, NJ Turnpike, PA Turnpike, Maine Turnpike, and the Ohio Turnpike.  I haven't traveled on the Indiana Toll Road or Florida's Turnpike, but I imagine I'd feel it on those roads too (though Florida's Turnpike has added a fair number of more conventional interchanges).

[J N Winkler]

The Kansas Turnpike runs as a blind corridor through both Wichita and Topeka.  In the past the Wichita Area MPO has advocated carving the southeast Wichita segment out of the ticket system so it can better serve local commuter traffic, but the KTA (understandably) has no interest in the idea and no coalition has ever developed with the leverage to force them to take it seriously.

It feels a little strange to drive under Turnpike overpasses at arterial crossings such as George Washington Boulevard and Oliver or 47th Street South and realize there is no direct connectivity whatsoever.

[ran4sh]

Having to go through a trumpet interchange with toll booths certainly led to a "gateway" effect and made it feel more like a closed system.  This is still true when you remember where they used to be, especially with the gantries configured similarly.  The fact that signage and road geometry standards are slightly different has an impact too (no reference markers too).

I feel similar effects to the Thruway with the MassPike, NJ Turnpike, PA Turnpike, Maine Turnpike, and the Ohio Turnpike.  I haven't traveled on the Indiana Toll Road or Florida's Turnpike, but I imagine I'd feel it on those roads too (though Florida's Turnpike has added a fair number of more conventional interchanges).

I don't really feel the "gateway" effect with Florida's Turnpike, because (coming from the north) its ticket system doesn't begin until past Orlando, and I've never been to the part of Florida south of Orlando or Tampa.

(And for NJ I think I've used the endpoint entrances/exits more than I've used exits in the middle, so it doesn't feel like one needs to go through an interchange to get on that road either)

[jp the roadgeek]

Since the Connecticut Turnpike  (I-95/I-395/SR 695) and the Merritt/Wilbur Cross Parkway were barrier toll systems, I really don't see a difference, other than the parkways having many cloverleafs in comparison to most CT highways.  What makes the Mass Pike, the Thruway, the NJ and PA Turnpikes, and I-95 between Baltimore and Wilmington feel different is the excessive spacing between exits compared to local freeways.

[sprjus4]

Having to go through a trumpet interchange with toll booths certainly led to a "gateway" effect and made it feel more like a closed system.  This is still true when you remember where they used to be, especially with the gantries configured similarly.  The fact that signage and road geometry standards are slightly different has an impact too (no reference markers too).

I feel similar effects to the Thruway with the MassPike, NJ Turnpike, PA Turnpike, Maine Turnpike, and the Ohio Turnpike.  I haven't traveled on the Indiana Toll Road or Florida's Turnpike, but I imagine I'd feel it on those roads too (though Florida's Turnpike has added a fair number of more conventional interchanges).

I don't really feel the "gateway" effect with Florida's Turnpike, because (coming from the north) its ticket system doesn't begin until past Orlando, and I've never been to the part of Florida south of Orlando or Tampa.

(And for NJ I think I've used the endpoint entrances/exits more than I've used exits in the middle, so it doesn't feel like one needs to go through an interchange to get on that road either)

I think you've missed the point... it's not about how it feels to travel the road or be a through traveler / long distance on the Turnpike. It's about, in any given city along a Turnpike routing, how the Turnpike interacts with the local freeway network and local traffic.

[ran4sh]

And when I used FL Turnpike in the Orlando area it seemed well-integrated with other roads in the area

[CrystalWalrein]

The Garden State Parkway doesn't feel like a toll road for several reasons. First, there are few trumpet interchanges since it doesn't operate on a closed system. Second, the stretch near me can be travelled without paying any tolls.

The Atlantic City Expressway, on the other hand, does feel like a toll road since there are no ways to avoid paying a toll on it unless you turn around via the Farley services.

[vdeane]

And when I used FL Turnpike in the Orlando area it seemed well-integrated with other roads in the area

They've certainly added a fair number of conventional interchanges in there (including freeway/freeway), so helps.  Of course, there's also still stuff like this.

[JayhawkCO]

E-470 is out in the boonies (for now), but it doesn't inherently feel any different than C-470.

[StogieGuy7]

I actually do understand where the OP is going with this. And, there's no better example of it than the NJ Turnpike. Limited exits, toll gates, it's own exit numbering system, it's own rest/service areas.  It basically feels like a closed system. More so years ago, when even the signage was incredibly unique. As a kid, I recall traveling from the south to New England via the NJTP and seeing this new freeway (I-295) under construction right by it (yet never directly connected to it). The signage over there was quite different than on the turnpike, being much like what they had in MD at the time (including sparkling button copy). Those signs offered exits to state highways, which were marked with circular badges - unlike on the NJTP where route numbers were text only aside from Interstates. Yes, the NJTP was it's own world, seeming serving long distance travelers.

So yes, the NJTP is one. The PA Turnpike, NYS Thruway (which at one time had blue BGS'. totally different than the rest of the system in NY), Ohio Turnpike and Mass Pike belong on the list too.  And, I'd add parts of Florida's Turnpike - mainly the section from roughly Port St. Lucie to the Orlando area (north and south of these points, it's more similar to the standard interstates or local tollways). the Maine Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road and the longer of Oklahoma's Turnpikes. The Illinois Tollway system has the elements, yet it doesn't seem quite as different from standard interstates or unique to put on the list. 

Pretty much all of the more contemporary toll roads (post 1960's) don't seem as "different" as what the OP is talking about. Yeah, they have tolls but most otherwise seem much like their untolled brethren. And, I'd say that any toll road with barrier tolls lacks the same vibe. In this way, my naming of the Mass Pike is only because I grandfather it into the club based on how it was originally constructed and configured.

[3467]

Indiana has that feel. I know what You are talking about.
Illinois was different. It would only apply to 88 and it's was a cashbox not a ticket. It has a unique feel to it.
Indiana always felt like a road to connect NYC to Chicago and the industrial core of the country at the time it was built.

[Henry]

Illinois was different. It would only apply to 88 and it's was a cashbox not a ticket. It has a unique feel to it.

Agreed, and even though I hate shelling out the cash I could've saved for gas money, I actually prefer the Tollways over the expressways in terms of design and capability.

[StogieGuy7]

Illinois was different. It would only apply to 88 and it's was a cashbox not a ticket. It has a unique feel to it.

Agreed, and even though I hate shelling out the cash I could've saved for gas money, I actually prefer the Tollways over the expressways in terms of design and capability.

I'm on the Tri-State a lot, and it's a great tollway. Nice and wide, great signage, the Lake Forest Oasis for a quick bite, and a cashless toll to pay for upkeep. But it doesn't feel all that different from the non-tolled parts of I-94 north of it into WI. Not like being on one of the big toll roads farther east does.

[jakeroot]

There is a big difference here in Japan. The major toll roads ("expressways", marked as E-###) have widely spaced exits and services (with restaurants and stuff). Local expressways (sometimes still marked as E-###, but usually have names too) are not always tolled, have more common on and off ramps, and either don't have services or they are very rare.

This is not a stead-fast rule though. There are definitely expressways in Japan with closely spaced exits, especially in tight urban areas.

[Rothman]

There is a big difference here in Japan. The major toll roads ("expressways", marked as E-###) have widely spaced exits and services (with restaurants and stuff). Local expressways (sometimes still marked as E-###, but usually have names too) are not always tolled, have more common on and off ramps, and either don't have services or they are very rare.

Sounds like the U.S....

[sprjus4]

There is a big difference here in Japan. The major toll roads ("expressways", marked as E-###) have widely spaced exits and services (with restaurants and stuff). Local expressways (sometimes still marked as E-###, but usually have names too) are not always tolled, have more common on and off ramps, and either don't have services or they are very rare.

Sounds like the U.S....

Since when does the US have different designations for the two different types of roads (asides from custom Turnpike names)?

[jakeroot]

Sounds like the U.S....

It should sound like New York; the long-distance expressways are just like the Thruway, with widely-spaced exits and tolls, and the local expressways are more like standard ring roads and spurs, with tolls not always being part of the equation.

When I say "big difference", I mean there is a difference between Japan's major toll roads and their local freeways...per the OP...

[Rothman]

Sounds like the U.S....

It should sound like New York; the long-distance expressways are just like the Thruway, with widely-spaced exits and tolls, and the local expressways are more like standard ring roads and spurs, with tolls not always being part of the equation.

When I say "big difference", I mean there is a difference between Japan's major toll roads and their local freeways...per the OP...

And MA...

And OH...

etc., etc.

[StogieGuy7]

Sounds like the U.S....

It should sound like New York; the long-distance expressways are just like the Thruway, with widely-spaced exits and tolls, and the local expressways are more like standard ring roads and spurs, with tolls not always being part of the equation.

When I say "big difference", I mean there is a difference between Japan's major toll roads and their local freeways...per the OP...

The really big difference is the cost per mile (or km, if you prefer); toll roads in Japan are exceedingly expensive. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the toll cost somewhere around $1/mile?

[SEWIGuy]

Indiana has that feel. I know what You are talking about.
Illinois was different. It would only apply to 88 and it's was a cashbox not a ticket. It has a unique feel to it.
Indiana always felt like a road to connect NYC to Chicago and the industrial core of the country at the time it was built.

Yes, the ITR most definitely feels that way. Due to its location, it in-a-way exists to get people *through* Indiana and not to some location *in* Indiana.  (Of course that's just a generalization.) 

The Ohio Turnpike feels similar, but to a lesser degree.

The Illinois toll roads don't feel that way much at all.

[jakeroot]

Sounds like the U.S....

It should sound like New York; the long-distance expressways are just like the Thruway, with widely-spaced exits and tolls, and the local expressways are more like standard ring roads and spurs, with tolls not always being part of the equation.

When I say "big difference", I mean there is a difference between Japan's major toll roads and their local freeways...per the OP...

And MA...

And OH...

etc., etc.

Yep, but not WA, OR, CA, HI, AK, ID, AZ, UT, ND, SD, NM, CO, WY, WI, TX, MS, AL, TN ...

etc., etc.

[jakeroot]

Sounds like the U.S....

It should sound like New York; the long-distance expressways are just like the Thruway, with widely-spaced exits and tolls, and the local expressways are more like standard ring roads and spurs, with tolls not always being part of the equation.

When I say "big difference", I mean there is a difference between Japan's major toll roads and their local freeways...per the OP...

The really big difference is the cost per mile (or km, if you prefer); toll roads in Japan are exceedingly expensive. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the toll cost somewhere around $1/mile?

I think it depends on the expressway and the operator (NEXCO West, East, etc). Locally, here in Okinawa, it's around 20 to 30 cents per mile.

[Rothman]

Sounds like the U.S....

It should sound like New York; the long-distance expressways are just like the Thruway, with widely-spaced exits and tolls, and the local expressways are more like standard ring roads and spurs, with tolls not always being part of the equation.

When I say "big difference", I mean there is a difference between Japan's major toll roads and their local freeways...per the OP...

And MA...

And OH...

etc., etc.

Yep, but not WA, OR, CA, HI, AK, ID, AZ, UT, ND, SD, NM, CO, WY, WI, TX, MS, AL, TN ...

etc., etc.

Perhaps keep the list to only states with toll facilities...