Washington

[Bruce]

The first cracks were noticed by inspectors in 2013 and filled with epoxy in 2019. An inspection earlier this month noted that the cracks were growing faster, so that may be why the closure was announced only now.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/city-has-known-about-cracks-in-west-seattle-bridge-since-2013

[jakeroot]

Switching to Spokane: the state is taking input on urban design elements of the Wellesley and Euclid roadways beneath the NSC. If interested, the link is in this press release:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/news/2020/03/23/wsdot-seeks-public-input-north-spokane-corridor-design-concepts

I took it, and recommended simpler design elements that wouldn't be too distracting. As well, I suggested fewer full-blown murals that could easily be defaced.

Overall, not really the most tasteful designs. Simpler the better! The life-size train mural I thought was pretty cool, but only if they could simplify it so that it was less like a drawing.

[bing101]

The first cracks were noticed by inspectors in 2013 and filled with epoxy in 2019. An inspection earlier this month noted that the cracks were growing faster, so that may be why the closure was announced only now.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/city-has-known-about-cracks-in-west-seattle-bridge-since-2013

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/west-seattle-bridge-was-on-a-road-to-collapse-engineers-reports-show/

Now there is a warning that the West Seattle Bridge was on a road to collapse if it was not closed.

[kwellada]

The first cracks were noticed by inspectors in 2013 and filled with epoxy in 2019. An inspection earlier this month noted that the cracks were growing faster, so that may be why the closure was announced only now.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/city-has-known-about-cracks-in-west-seattle-bridge-since-2013

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/west-seattle-bridge-was-on-a-road-to-collapse-engineers-reports-show/

Now there is a warning that the West Seattle Bridge was on a road to collapse if it was not closed.

One has to wonder if there had never been a pandemic, would they have noticed in time?  Presumably so, since I imagine it was part of a routine inspection, but it's still scary to think of a worst case scenario in normal rush hour times.

[Bruce]

A view of the empty bridge:

[jakeroot]

Great photo! Makes me wish I had a proper zoom lens.

I managed to grab a shot of some of the cracks from West Marginal (see if you can spot them ):

[Alps]

Great photo! Makes me wish I had a proper zoom lens.

I managed to grab a shot of some of the cracks from West Marginal (see if you can spot them ):

And yeah, that's why it's closed.

[jakeroot]

Great photo! Makes me wish I had a proper zoom lens.

I managed to grab a shot of some of the cracks from West Marginal (see if you can spot them ):

And yeah, that's why it's closed.

More joking about the fact that, without using digital zoom, that was the best photo I could get. Not least without Bruce's zoom lens. Still, it's highly visible compared to Street View imagery, where I'm not seeing any cracking in Sep-2018.

[sparker]

Whew!  Looks like my West Seattle friends dodged a bullet when they moved up to Anacortes a few years back.  They (a mother-daughter combination) regularly used that bridge to get to work daily;  likewise myself on my several-times-per-year visits from the early '80's to the mid '00's.  Obviously this sort of thing occurs without public notice, since the bridge was nearly thirty years old before anyone noticed the cracks -- and another six years before anything was done about it!  That in itself is surprising, considering the fact that concrete deterioration is not uncommon on structures and streets in that area (e.g. the Aurora bridge over the ship channel), likely due to the aggregate -- and consistent --  amount of moisture they must endure over years of use (Portland is likewise afflicted).  The PNW is green and lush for a reason -- one that's not always kind to facilities.   

[jakeroot]

The PNW is green and lush for a reason -- one that's not always kind to facilities.   

I've heard another common complaint, one that's not necessarily related to longevity: everything has a sort of "grimy" appearance after a while. Streaks from rain, discoloration from being wet all the time, etc.

[ErmineNotyours]

Great photo! Makes me wish I had a proper zoom lens.

I managed to grab a shot of some of the cracks from West Marginal (see if you can spot them ):

And yeah, that's why it's closed.

More joking about the fact that, without using digital zoom, that was the best photo I could get. Not least without Bruce's zoom lens. Still, it's highly visible compared to Street View imagery, where I'm not seeing any cracking in Sep-2018.

Cracks visible June 2019.

[stevashe]

Great photo! Makes me wish I had a proper zoom lens.

I managed to grab a shot of some of the cracks from West Marginal (see if you can spot them ):

And yeah, that's why it's closed.

More joking about the fact that, without using digital zoom, that was the best photo I could get. Not least without Bruce's zoom lens. Still, it's highly visible compared to Street View imagery, where I'm not seeing any cracking in Sep-2018.

Cracks visible June 2019.

The Seattle Times article said the cracks were made much more visible when an epoxy was used to seal them up in 2019. If they actually got that big that fast then we'd be looking at a pile of rubble soon, if not already.

[sparker]

I believe WA has a similar, if not identical, shelter-in-place order to what we have down here in CA.  Re the West Seattle Bridge sitation -- if traffic levels are similarly reduced, the bridge closure could not (ironically) have come at a better time; the low-level Duwamish/Spokane Ave. bridge should readily handle the reduced traffic load between West Seattle and downtown.  Given that, I wonder what type of "permanent" (non-epoxy-fill!) solution will be devised -- absent a complete teardown and reconstruction of the bridge deck. 

BTW, who actually owns and is responsible for the bridge -- WDOT, King County, the City of Seattle, or the port?   

[MikieTimT]

I believe WA has a similar, if not identical, shelter-in-place order to what we have down here in CA.  Re the West Seattle Bridge sitation -- if traffic levels are similarly reduced, the bridge closure could not (ironically) have come at a better time; the low-level Duwamish/Spokane Ave. bridge should readily handle the reduced traffic load between West Seattle and downtown.  Given that, I wonder what type of "permanent" (non-epoxy-fill!) solution will be devised -- absent a complete teardown and reconstruction of the bridge deck. 

BTW, who actually owns and is responsible for the bridge -- WDOT, King County, the City of Seattle, or the port?   

This bridge was inspected, maintained, and owned by the city.

[jakeroot]

LRe the West Seattle Bridge sitation -- if traffic levels are similarly reduced, the bridge closure could not (ironically) have come at a better time; the low-level Duwamish/Spokane Ave. bridge should readily handle the reduced traffic load between West Seattle and downtown.

The current low-level bridge is being limited to transit, freight, and emergency services. Passenger vehicles must detour via the 1st Avenue South Bridge (Hwy 99) if they want to head north.

[sparker]

LRe the West Seattle Bridge sitation -- if traffic levels are similarly reduced, the bridge closure could not (ironically) have come at a better time; the low-level Duwamish/Spokane Ave. bridge should readily handle the reduced traffic load between West Seattle and downtown.

The current low-level bridge is being limited to transit, freight, and emergency services. Passenger vehicles must detour via the 1st Avenue South Bridge (Hwy 99) if they want to head north.

Interesting -- either the lower-level lift bridge mechanism is nearing (or at!) its useful lifespan, and the city simply wants to keep it in working order until more permanent repairs to the newer structure can be completed -- or it's a way to distribute and disperse traffic during the COVID emergency.  I guess West Seattle folks are or will be busy discovering the "back ways" to get over to Marginal and I-5!

[jakeroot]

LRe the West Seattle Bridge sitation -- if traffic levels are similarly reduced, the bridge closure could not (ironically) have come at a better time; the low-level Duwamish/Spokane Ave. bridge should readily handle the reduced traffic load between West Seattle and downtown.

The current low-level bridge is being limited to transit, freight, and emergency services. Passenger vehicles must detour via the 1st Avenue South Bridge (Hwy 99) if they want to head north.

Interesting -- either the lower-level lift bridge mechanism is nearing (or at!) its useful lifespan, and the city simply wants to keep it in working order until more permanent repairs to the newer structure can be completed -- or it's a way to distribute and disperse traffic during the COVID emergency.  I guess West Seattle folks are or will be busy discovering the "back ways" to get over to Marginal and I-5!

The Seattle area really hasn't seen massive drops in traffic like what I'm seeing in California (significant, yes, just not massive). When I went up to the area on Saturday, there were cars everywhere. If they were trying to put them all over the *swing bridge, the traffic would be pretty hideous. As it is, I think SDOT was seeing AADT's of around 15,000 vehicles last week, before they started to more strictly enforce the restrictions; capacity is about 20,000.

From what I saw, the current system seems to make sense (your second theory): there's not enough bus, freight, nor emergency vehicles to put the bridge over-capacity, but adding in passenger vehicles would change that. So by having regular drivers head down West Marginal to Highland Park Way, they're able to disperse things a bit better. Other than an awkward lane drop southbound along West Marginal that comes right back, the detour is pretty reasonable. The lights along East Marginal (Hwy 99 north of the 1st Ave So. Bridge) are also very well timed; other than the left turn from West Marginal onto Highland Park (a double left, thankfully), it's a pretty smooth experience, especially getting onto northbound Hwy 99 with the underpass and slip lane. It just adds some time.

The question, of course, is what happens after we get a vaccine: the vast majority of people will likely return to their old habits. As it stands for commuting, that probably means going into the office instead of working from home. Long-term, I suspect there to be some traffic snarling around the West Marginal/Highland Park intersection, which may encourage usage of those buses that are able to use the lower bridge. With regular traffic, taking the bus from West Seattle could easily shave 20+ minutes off a commute by using that detour. Maybe some people will start hiding in tractor-trailers too. There's also the water taxis, which I'm sure will see more use, assuming they aren't permanently removed from service without the funding to operate them.

[ErmineNotyours]

I believe WA has a similar, if not identical, shelter-in-place order to what we have down here in CA.  Re the West Seattle Bridge sitation -- if traffic levels are similarly reduced, the bridge closure could not (ironically) have come at a better time; the low-level Duwamish/Spokane Ave. bridge should readily handle the reduced traffic load between West Seattle and downtown.  Given that, I wonder what type of "permanent" (non-epoxy-fill!) solution will be devised -- absent a complete teardown and reconstruction of the bridge deck. 

BTW, who actually owns and is responsible for the bridge -- WDOT, King County, the City of Seattle, or the port?   

This bridge was inspected, maintained, and owned by the city.

Things reached a crisis in 1979 when one bridge in the the four lane, twin drawspans was struck by a ship and was stuck in the up position.  Some creative types thought of having West Seattle become its own separate city so that the state would have to build a bridge to connect them.  Not a bad idea now.  In the meantime, the police can't keep general traffic off the current two-lane low-level bridge.  Maybe they should make it part of the Good To Go photo toll system.  Non-authorized vehicles would be sent a $124 fine.

[jakeroot]

Maybe they should make [the Spokane Street Swing Bridge] part of the Good To Go photo toll system.  Non-authorized vehicles would be sent a $124 fine.

To be fair to drivers, the ramps leading up to the bridge are a bit confusing. Short of playing "lemmings", it's hard to process all the signage when traffic is moving at regular speeds. At least I struggled a bit, trying to recall exactly which road names correspond to which roads, etc.

[Bruce]

There are police officers posted at the west end of the low-level bridge who are standing in the ramp unless they see an authorized vehicle to wave through. The east end was kind of a free-for-all when I last drove it (on Thursday).

[jay8g]

Today was a big news day for the West Seattle Bridge:

• Not expected to open until at least 2022
• SDOT isn't sure whether it will be able to be fixed at all or if it will need full replacement
• If it is able to be repaired, repairs will provide "up to 10 years of additional use" before it will need replacement

I'm definitely starting to wonder whether SDOT may just decide to start from scratch with a new bridge here... of course, with the whole COVID recession that's starting, I have no idea where they'll be able to get the money for that! (The current estimate is $33 million just for early repairs and shoring -- not even for full repairs to reopen the bridge, let alone replacement.)

[Bruce]

The lower bridge will need to have automated camera enforcement, since keeping cops there for hours a day would not work in post-pandemic Seattle.

[kwellada]

It occurs to me that another side effect of the pandemic is that the new Seattle tunnel is likely not generating near the toll revenue they probably expected, which pushes back how long that'll take to pay off.  I don't envy the highway dept budget planners.

[kkt]

Today was a big news day for the West Seattle Bridge:

• Not expected to open until at least 2022
• SDOT isn't sure whether it will be able to be fixed at all or if it will need full replacement
• If it is able to be repaired, repairs will provide "up to 10 years of additional use" before it will need replacement

I'm definitely starting to wonder whether SDOT may just decide to start from scratch with a new bridge here... of course, with the whole COVID recession that's starting, I have no idea where they'll be able to get the money for that! (The current estimate is $33 million just for early repairs and shoring -- not even for full repairs to reopen the bridge, let alone replacement.)

We need another ship to run into it so we can justify some replacement money.

[jakeroot]

Wow. Just wow. Really incredible news, and not in a good way.

What I would like to know, is where along the current span the viaducts end, and the bridge begins. I can't imagine the entire span from 99 to Admiral Way, other than the bit over the Duwamish, would need replacing. But I don't know.

I'll be very interested to see how, with a potentially devastating recession looming, what an entirely new bridge could look like, assuming a giant chunk of the original bridge needs removing. Narrower than the current bridge? Maybe a new dualled lower span more akin to the original setup? Or perhaps a rebuild with an equal number of inbound and outbound lanes (unlike the current bridge, with its unequal number of lanes).

The lower bridge will need to have automated camera enforcement, since keeping cops there for hours a day would not work in post-pandemic Seattle.

Agreed, though I think you'd need some form of decal for that to work. Otherwise, the state would have to keep a database of permitted vs non-permitted plates in its system; that would be a titanic undertaking.