IN: US 31 South Bend to Plymouth Upgrade report

[trafficsignal]

I traveled this way last week and was still driving on the northbound lanes at the south end, so that switchover must have been very recent. I'd be okay if the 7th Road interchange wasn't fully completed this year, as long as there are four lanes of traffic at both the north and south ends, the odds and ends can wait until early next year.

A few observations/suggestions:

1) I did not see any SR 931 references up in St. Joseph County, of course I didn't travel that roadway either so I can't say it isn't signed at all.

2) I do not like the orange "guide signs" being used at the exits, especially around the US 6 exit, not to mention a good part of the Kokomo bypass. I really hope these are only temporary. I know a few of these signs have been damaged but the highway's been open only a month or so, how can there be signs damaged already. I haven't seen any sign damage along any of I-65 and I-69 in northern Indiana, so why here?

3) Although it probably won't happen, I wish that the destination and mileage signage along US 31 were similar to that of SR 37 from Indianapolis to Bedford. Signs on that highway are a little bigger and to me reflective of a major four-lane highway that US 31 is, instead there are those smaller mixed-case smaller signs that would work fine on small two-lane roads, but personally not to me on a highway that some would like to see become an interstate. Exit numbers at the US 24 and SR 25 interchanges couldn't hurt either....why not?

1) the relinquishment agreement was settled much too late for that signage to be included with the rest of the work on US 31.  If it happens it'll be separate work, but likely by INDOT forces so it may take some time.

2) There are blow-downs all over the state (Kokomo area was bad, as well as the southern part of I-69).  The winter was pretty rough, so some combination of frozen ground + high winds + sun-warmed posts may have caused unusual damage, but it was so bad that INDOT is reviewing their post mounting standards.

3) From what I've seen the signage on the new US 31 is compliant with the current MUTCD - can't say I've driven SR 37 south of Indy recently to know what the difference is, but if they're all caps then they are outdated.  Probably a fair time to mention that there is no centralized sign design for INDOT, and due to various factors the consultants designing the signs don't always know what they're doing.  The couple of people at INDOT that do know what the signs should look like can't / don't review everything, combine that with changing standards and lagging replacements and signage will look different from route to route.

I'd like to guess that whenever the signs are due to be replaced at the other interchanges along US 31 INDOT would add exit numbers, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[mgk920]

One question, how good is local street connectivity between the 'old' US 31 road and the streets to the north of US 20?  As the area develops to the south, is the old road a good major city street continuation of Michigan St towards downtown?

Mike

[NWI_Irish96]

One question, how good is local street connectivity between the 'old' US 31 road and the streets to the north of US 20?  As the area develops to the south, is the old road a good major city street continuation of Michigan St towards downtown?

Mike

If you are traveling northbound on Old US 31, you have to briefly turn west onto Kern Rd. and then take the entrance ramp to the New NB US 31 in order to continue on to Michigan Street. 

[tdindy88]

Here's a few examples of the signage I was talking about with SR 37.





Mind you I am only talking about the non-freeway parts of US 31, I know the freeway segments are up to MUTCD standards.

Some of these are button-copy and given that most of this will become interstate the signs will go away (with interstate-style signage replacing it.) I also seem to remember signs like this along parts of US 41 in Southwestern Indiana and SR 3 around New Castle to Muncie. This is fairly common on Ohio expressways. I realize that signage along that route probably won't be changing, not unless there is a full interstate conversion for the rest of 31, but it's just a thought of mine.

It's good to see that INDOT is looking at how they mount their signs, it's just a little ridiculous how their newer signs are seeing this damage but not much of their older signs, again I'm looking at I-65 and I-69 north of the city, that's similar terrain to US 31. The only damaged signs I'll excuse along US 31 would be at the US 35/SR 22 exit that was damaged by the tornado a few days before the highway opened, INDOT obviously couldn't have seen that coming.

[PurdueBill]

2) There are blow-downs all over the state (Kokomo area was bad, as well as the southern part of I-69).  The winter was pretty rough, so some combination of frozen ground + high winds + sun-warmed posts may have caused unusual damage, but it was so bad that INDOT is reviewing their post mounting standards.

Similarly, nearly every ground-mounted BGS at the new US 24/35 & SR 25 & SR 29 interchange has blown down at least once since installation.  Something is wrong with what they're doing lately, it seems.  Never noticed so many problems before.

[trafficsignal]

Not out of knowledge, but just a guess - all these are newer ground installations.  Those are now much bigger due to the MUTCD requirement of 20"/15" letter heights for ground mounted destinations.  Either INDOT's standards for larger signs are not sufficient or the signs were outside the standards and incorrectly designed.

[mobilene]

I drove it southbound over the weekend. It was nice to zoom right through rather than having to slow down in Lakeville and LaPaz, but I suppose that was the whole point of building this.

But the whole time I was on it my car felt uncertain on the pavement. I felt a lot of ... how do I even describe this? ... skittishness in my tires as I rolled. It was an enormously windy day, too, and so I was fighting it to stay in my lane. That skittishness ended the minute I exited the new road back onto the old.

[ysuindy]

Quite a bit of progress within the last week at the North tie-in.  Asphalt has been set down on the entirety of the new northbound lanes.   I can most assuredly buy this tie-in will be complete by the end of the year.  Seems as if they will have this done before Thanksgiving, although I admittedly don't know what else needs done, especially with a quick look at 45 mph.

All of the exit signs for the US 6 exit have been replaced, both directions.  Last weekend the orange signs were still up.  I cannot recall what other signs were down.

Hard to see much obvious progress at the South tie-in.  I'm sure its being made, but my novice eye behind the wheel doesn't see all that much different over the past few weeks.  This project looks to go well in to 2015 to my untrained and uneducated eye.

[I94RoadRunner]

Is INDOT still trying to pursue the I-67 designation for US 31 from Indianapolis north or is this new freeway just going to be a nice US 31 all the way north to I-196 .....?

[NE2]

Is INDOT still trying to pursue the I-67 designation for US 31 from Indianapolis north or is this new freeway just going to be a nice US 31 all the way north to I-196 .....?

When was INDOT ever pursuing an I-67 designation here?

[adventurernumber1]

Is INDOT still trying to pursue the I-67 designation for US 31 from Indianapolis north or is this new freeway just going to be a nice US 31 all the way north to I-196 .....?

When was INDOT ever pursuing an I-67 designation here?

Idk if INDOT actually made a proposal, but I personally think an I-67 would be a great idea, and I've even made a verbal proposal for it on the forum before, somewhere in a thread I can't remember.

EDIT: Oh, silly me, it's on this thread, LOL. I just found it, and it is on page 6 if anyone wants to see.

[silverback1065]

Is INDOT still trying to pursue the I-67 designation for US 31 from Indianapolis north or is this new freeway just going to be a nice US 31 all the way north to I-196 .....?

When was INDOT ever pursuing an I-67 designation here?

I agree, I don't they ever were, why does it need to be signed as an interstate anyway?  What's wrong with US 31?

[hbelkins]

I'm in favor of signing as many limited-access freeways as possible as interstates.

I'm not in favor of converting every four-lane surface arterial into a limited-access freeway.

[NWI_Irish96]

Is INDOT still trying to pursue the I-67 designation for US 31 from Indianapolis north or is this new freeway just going to be a nice US 31 all the way north to I-196 .....?

When was INDOT ever pursuing an I-67 designation here?

I agree, I don't they ever were, why does it need to be signed as an interstate anyway?  What's wrong with US 31?

If they go ahead and convert the rest of the road to interstate-standard, then they should definitely go ahead and apply to have it signed as I-67.  However, I'm 100% against actually making that conversion until after the entire lengths of I-65 and I-70 are expanded to six lanes.  That will have a bigger impact on traffic than upgrading 31 between Peru and Plymouth where you can already just set your cruise on 70 and not have to touch it.

[Brandon]

Is INDOT still trying to pursue the I-67 designation for US 31 from Indianapolis north or is this new freeway just going to be a nice US 31 all the way north to I-196 .....?

When was INDOT ever pursuing an I-67 designation here?

I agree, I don't they ever were, why does it need to be signed as an interstate anyway?  What's wrong with US 31?

Absolutely nothing.  US-31 is just as good a number for it.

[I94RoadRunner]

Nothing is wrong with this highway staying US 31. I just recall that there was talk some time ago of making US 31 into a new I-67 corridor and wondered if that was still the case or not .....?

[NWI_Irish96]

Nothing is wrong with this highway staying US 31. I just recall that there was talk some time ago of making US 31 into a new I-67 corridor and wondered if that was still the case or not .....?

The governor has stated that it should be a priority to convert the rest of the road to limited access.  Nobody with the state has ever said anything about an I-67 (or any other interstate) designation but that seems to be a natural consequence.

[silverback1065]

Nothing is wrong with this highway staying US 31. I just recall that there was talk some time ago of making US 31 into a new I-67 corridor and wondered if that was still the case or not .....?

The governor has stated that it should be a priority to convert the rest of the road to limited access.  Nobody with the state has ever said anything about an I-67 (or any other interstate) designation but that seems to be a natural consequence.

I hope it's at the lowest priority, upgrading the whole thing can wait a while until they finish more important roads

[I94RoadRunner]

INDOT apparently applied to AASHTO quite awhile ago for US 31 to be added as I-67, however it was rejected because Michigan did not agree. The preferred route for what Indiana wanted for I-67 was US 31 north to Elkhart, then connecting to US 131 and into Michigan along US 131. An alternate was to continue north along US 31 to I-196 and then to US 131 and north. Michigan surprisingly enough did not want to add I-67 though so it never got approved. Furthermore, if Michigan does not want to add I-67, I do not see any real need for I-67 in Indiana since it would only connect Indianapolis to Kokomo and Elkhart. US 31 has worked for many years so far and will in the future as well.

[silverback1065]

INDOT apparently applied to AASHTO quite awhile ago for US 31 to be added as I-67, however it was rejected because Michigan did not agree. The preferred route for what Indiana wanted for I-67 was US 31 north to Elkhart, then connecting to US 131 and into Michigan along US 131. An alternate was to continue north along US 31 to I-196 and then to US 131 and north. Michigan surprisingly enough did not want to add I-67 though so it never got approved. Furthermore, if Michigan does not want to add I-67, I do not see any real need for I-67 in Indiana since it would only connect Indianapolis to Kokomo and Elkhart. US 31 has worked for many years so far and will in the future as well.

i-67 should follow us 31 the whole way in michigan.  michigan is one of the few states to keep the highway as it was when it is turned into a freeway (us 23,131,127,31)

[I94RoadRunner]

Doing a bit more research on I-67, Kentucky is pressing for I-67 to also go south out of Indianapolis running tandem with I-69 and then cutting off at US 231 to connect Owensboro, KY and then Bowling Green ending at I-65. I would be surprised if this happened in my lifetime though .....

[jnewkirk77]

Doing a bit more research on I-67, Kentucky is pressing for I-67 to also go south out of Indianapolis running tandem with I-69 and then cutting off at US 231 to connect Owensboro, KY and then Bowling Green ending at I-65. I would be surprised if this happened in my lifetime though .....

Kentucky isn't pressing for it. The mayor of Owensboro is. There's a difference. KYTC sees it as unnecessary, which it is.

[Revive 755]

Nothing is wrong with this highway staying US 31. I just recall that there was talk some time ago of making US 31 into a new I-67 corridor and wondered if that was still the case or not .....?

Doesn't Indiana require freeways to have an interstate number before they can be posted at 70 mph?

[monty]

Yes, the improved segments of US 31 have a speed limit of 65 (except for the new urban freeway south of SR 38, which is 55), while the rural unimproved US 31 divided highway has a speed limit of 60.  The new improvements are built to interstate speed standards, so 70 mph is a feasible safe speed.

[silverback1065]

Doing a bit more research on I-67, Kentucky is pressing for I-67 to also go south out of Indianapolis running tandem with I-69 and then cutting off at US 231 to connect Owensboro, KY and then Bowling Green ending at I-65. I would be surprised if this happened in my lifetime though .....

that's never going to happen 67 south of 465 is useless