2015 DENVER/FRONT RANGE ROADMEET - MAY 30, 2015

Started by corco, December 20, 2014, 10:40:02 PM

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oscar

#25
Quote from: corco on March 28, 2015, 07:22:09 PM
Draft Meet Tour posted: http://www.corcohighways.org/2015FRONTRANGEROADMEET.pdf

Updated Meet Description posted: https://www.facebook.com/events/624466810998066/

Suggestions more than welcome.

I suggest allowing about 15 minutes extra time at the base of Mt. Evans (SH 103/SH 5 junction), for people to visit the Echo Lake Lodge there, in addition to a few minutes waiting on the way up or down for mountain goats to clear the road. People can buy souvenirs at the gift shop (I went crazy there my first visit -- the "Got Oxygen?" T-shirts/sweatshirts are a popular item), use the restrooms, and maybe grab a snack. 

Next to the spacious summit parking lot are some ruins which might be a good place for a group photo. Mountain goats sometimes hang out there.  Up to you whether you want the goats in, or out, of the shot.

I'll be driving to Colorado in my Prius, which won't have enough power to make it up Mt. Evans, so I'd have to leave it behind at the meet restaurant or at the Echo Lake Lodge. As with Pikes Peak, vehicles going to the summit should be able to shift down to first gear on the descent to avoid frying the brakes.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html


hbelkins

Quote from: oscar on March 28, 2015, 08:21:57 PM
Next to the spacious summit parking lot are some ruins which might be a good place for a group photo.  Mountain goats sometimes hang out there.  Up to you whether you want the goats in, or out, of the shot.

We've already had one meet crashed by goats. Surely not another one! If Pikeville was Alanland, then this will be Alanland West.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on March 28, 2015, 09:44:57 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 28, 2015, 08:21:57 PM
Next to the spacious summit parking lot are some ruins which might be a good place for a group photo.  Mountain goats sometimes hang out there.  Up to you whether you want the goats in, or out, of the shot.

We've already had one meet crashed by goats. Surely not another one! If Pikeville was Alanland, then this will be Alanland West.
As I was checking out an old truss bridge on a VA secondary (following VA 42's gaps), I came upon a group of screaming goats at someone's farm. It sounded for all the world like they were saying "Hello, hi" to me.

oscar

Quote from: Alps on March 29, 2015, 10:51:36 PM
As I was checking out an old truss bridge on a VA secondary (following VA 42's gaps), I came upon a group of screaming goats at someone's farm. It sounded for all the world like they were saying "Hello, hi" to me.

To digress, aside from the noisy goats (to which I'm indifferent, so long as they're behind fences -- Mt. Evans' goats are quieter), how was that secondary road? I plan to be down that way later this week, and was thinking of taking that road and a fragment of VA 42 as a shortcut between US 460 and I-64.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

froggie

Quote from: oscar on March 29, 2015, 11:04:59 PMTo digress, aside from the noisy goats (to which I'm indifferent, so long as they're behind fences -- Mt. Evans' goats are quieter), how was that secondary road? I plan to be down that way later this week, and was thinking of taking that road and a fragment of VA 42 as a shortcut between US 460 and I-64.

Speaking from my own experiences, it's not going to save you any time or distance as a shortcut.  It would solely be a recreational drive...though if that's what you're looking for, it fits.  Mike says on VHP that SR 615 isn't a bad drive, and neither is 42 between New Castle and 460, though there's a steep climb out of New Castle.  I haven't been on 615 but I've been on 42.

As for time/distance, taking 220/615/42 is 8 miles longer than just staying on I-81 to US 460, and is 12 miles longer than an I-64/US 60/WV 63/US 219 routing.

Another option that's the same length as 64/60/63/219 is I-64 to VA 159 to VA/WV 311 to WV 3 to US 219.

usends

After reading the tour agenda, a few thoughts come to mind:

The later in the day, the more likely to experience lightning, thunderstorms, and cloudiness.  It's no fun to be at high-altitude during weather like that.  My suggestion would be to depart for Evans early in the day, and then do lunch afterwards.  After lunch you could do another (shorter) loop to see the tunnel, the bridge, and Lookout Mtn.

If any of the attendees has one of the following passes, they can bring it and avoid paying the Mt. Evans toll road fee:
-America the Beautiful National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Passes (Annual, Senior, Access or Volunteer)
-Valid (lifetime) Golden Age, Golden Access Passports

Might be a good idea to have a "designated driver" in an extra car who is available to evacuate anyone who experiences altitude sickness.  Being well-hydrated helps, but being over-hydrated isn't good either.

No matter how hot it is down in Denver, the summit of Evans will be cold and windy, so bring a jacket, gloves, hat, etc.

Not that it matters much, but just so people don't expect to experience a "summit" like they typically would on a mountain pass road: SH 103 (despite the name "Squaw Pass Rd") doesn't actually go over Squaw Pass.  Rather, the road essentially follows an elevation contour that just happens to pass by Squaw Pass.
usends.com - US highway endpoints, photos, maps, and history

oscar

#31
Quote from: usends on March 30, 2015, 11:37:12 AM
The later in the day, the more likely to experience lightning, thunderstorms, and cloudiness.  It's no fun to be at high-altitude during weather like that.  My suggestion would be to depart for Evans early in the day, and then do lunch afterwards.  After lunch you could do another (shorter) loop to see the tunnel, the bridge, and Lookout Mtn.

Is the parking near the meet restaurant open before the restaurant does?

Even if it is, an early departure to Mt. Evans could complicate things for people who aren't staying in the Golden area, including one who was lives in Pueblo and was planning to attend the meet as a day trip.

FWIW, I've driven up Mt. Evans two or three times, always in the afternoon (because I am sooooo not a morning person), and weather was never an issue for me.

Quote from: usends on March 30, 2015, 11:37:12 AM
Might be a good idea to have a "designated driver" in an extra car who is available to evacuate anyone who experiences altitude sickness.

Good point, though another way to deal with that contingency is for every car going up to the summit to take one less passenger than the maximum. That would not only leave room for shifting passengers among cars, should one or two people need to descend early, but it would also mean less work for the engines on the way up and the brakes on the way down.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Mapmikey

Quote from: froggie on March 30, 2015, 07:48:24 AM
Quote from: oscar on March 29, 2015, 11:04:59 PMTo digress, aside from the noisy goats (to which I'm indifferent, so long as they're behind fences -- Mt. Evans' goats are quieter), how was that secondary road? I plan to be down that way later this week, and was thinking of taking that road and a fragment of VA 42 as a shortcut between US 460 and I-64.



Speaking from my own experiences, it's not going to save you any time or distance as a shortcut.  It would solely be a recreational drive...though if that's what you're looking for, it fits.  Mike says on VHP that SR 615 isn't a bad drive, and neither is 42 between New Castle and 460, though there's a steep climb out of New Castle.  I haven't been on 615 but I've been on 42.

As for time/distance, taking 220/615/42 is 8 miles longer than just staying on I-81 to US 460, and is 12 miles longer than an I-64/US 60/WV 63/US 219 routing.

Another option that's the same length as 64/60/63/219 is I-64 to VA 159 to VA/WV 311 to WV 3 to US 219.

You can also try 42-311-18 if you haven't driven VA 18 yet.  Because of the distance it is 15 minutes longer than 42-615-220.  VA 18 is a good road.  VA 311 between them has some mountain ascents but it is not particularly nasty.

What I remember about 615 was a lot of 40 mph curves but not much elevation change.

Mapmikey

hbelkins

Getting off-topic, but several years ago I drove VA Secondary 635/WV County 17/VA Secondary 600/VA 18 between US 460 near Pearisburg and I-64 at Covington. Scenic drive, but the pavement in West Virginia wasn't that great at the time.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

bugo

Quote from: SSOWorld on December 30, 2014, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: bugo on December 30, 2014, 03:32:45 PM
We don't even bother changing our schedules when the forecast calls for tornadoes here. If a tornado is imminent, we go outside and look at the sky.
* SSOWorld likes this. 

Proper response to a tornado.  Too bad I didn't get that chance in my town last year ("Why?" you ask; because nobody knew until it was over. - no "Tornado" warning.)

[/off-topic]

Last week the sirens went off and half of my neighbors were out there as well. I took this photo of (I think) a rain wrapped tornado which was about 5 miles away near downtown Tulsa.


Duke87

Quote from: usends on March 30, 2015, 11:37:12 AM
The later in the day, the more likely to experience lightning, thunderstorms, and cloudiness.  It's no fun to be at high-altitude during weather like that.  My suggestion would be to depart for Evans early in the day, and then do lunch afterwards.  After lunch you could do another (shorter) loop to see the tunnel, the bridge, and Lookout Mtn.

When I went to Rocky Mountain National Park in 2006, the rangers and all our guide material hammered into our heads: whatever you do, be down below treeline by noon, and don't venture back up until after any storms pass. Wasn't simply a question of annoyance, they said it was unsafe to be outside above treeline during a storm because if lightning wants to strike anywhere nearby, it will strike YOU since you're the tallest thing around.

This was in July and indeed, for the entire week I was in the area, without fail it got stormy shortly after noon every day.

Now I get the sense that the "ZOMG get down below treeline or ur gonna die!!!" aspect of all that is a bit overblown. But even so, being up there while it's stormy ruins the sightseeing aspect of the trip. The itinerary has us up there between 3 and 4 PM, roughly. A brief storm will likely have passed out of the mountains by that point, but no guarantees.

What I don't know is whether at the end of the day thundestroms will form daily like they do in July. I would guess the answer would be know, but someone more familiar with weather in the area might better be able to comment.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

kphoger

Hmmm... I should be driving north across the Mexican border at Del Rio, Texas, on that day, in caravan with at least two other families. Don't think I'll be able to make. Even though Colorado is one of my all-time favorite destinations and we'd love to take the kids out there.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

oscar

#37
I'm booked for now (subject to change, after the start time for the meet itinerary is nailed down) for two nights at the suggested meet motel Super 8-Westminster North. Driving out from the East Coast, though a day later than I'd planned due to my niece's college graduation the week before. I'll have to rework my itinerary to cut back on my usual side-winding and other indirect routes, but probably will clinch US 24, US 40, US 91, and US 189 on the way out (which will probably still include a pre-meet detour to Salt Lake City).

I will likely be driving into Denver from Wyoming on Friday (arriving late), and heading back to Wyoming Sunday morning for a few more days before swinging back south for a few days of hot springing in southern Colorado/northern New Mexico, then taking a southern route (TBD) back home from there.

BTW, for those looking to room-share ... not me, thank you. Snoring is just one of my sleep disorders.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

jpi

Done deal for me, just secured the days off I need, Will be driving out Thursday and Friday, staying Fri night and Sat. night then driving back to Nashville area Sunday and Monday, Thursday will be 75% interstate to west side of Wichta, KS then Friday accross the US 50\400 corridor getting lots of new counties in KS and CO, then driving back accross northern CO and KS, then accross southern Iowa to the AVE of Saints corridor south to St Louis then home, should be a fun road trip with more new counties and US\ interstate milage, also I have a room booked in Westminster at the Quality Inn.
Jason Ilyes
JPI
Lebanon, TN
Home Of The Barrel

Brandon

Days off, hotels booked, car ready.  I shall see you guys there.  I-55 > I-72 > US-36 > I-29 > I-435 > I-70 out and I-76 > I-80 (with diversions) back.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

J N Winkler

I am leaning toward going, but have not yet made concrete arrangements.  I have friends in Colorado I may try to visit as part of this trip.

A couple of points regarding the itinerary:

Is this our first stop?

*  I have done some Web research into the Mt. Evans highway.  While it would be preferable to negotiate it in a car that can be held in first gear, I think it may be possible to negotiate it in a car that can be held no lower than second gear.  Per CDOT, the maximum grade is 9% between the start of the route and Summit Lake, and 15% between Summit Lake and the summit parking lot.  I have found that a small car with the second-gear limitation can handle Ebbetts Pass, which has a 15.6% maximum grade.  However, there are two main differences that may affect the go/no-go calculation.  Mt. Evans is at about 14,000 feet while Ebbetts Pass tops out at a little over 8,000 feet, so at a given speed the compression braking effort available from the engine is about 23% lower at Mt. Evans than at Ebbetts Pass.  Google Maps does not afford easy comparison, but there is also a possibility Mt. Evans may have steep grades sustained over longer lengths.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

corco

1. Yes
2. Good to know. I have a car with a manual transmission and I know at least one other attendee does. I'd assume between the remainder of the cars, we should have two or three others that are capable of reasonably easily descending.

jpi

I will have a rental that will be automatice so I prefer to ride with someone on this tour. :-)
Jason Ilyes
JPI
Lebanon, TN
Home Of The Barrel

codyg1985

I have an engine braking mode on my Prius, but I'm not sure how that will fare on the descent. It did well going down some steep hills in West Virginia.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

Brandon

Quote from: corco on May 03, 2015, 12:57:37 AM
1. Yes
2. Good to know. I have a car with a manual transmission and I know at least one other attendee does. I'd assume between the remainder of the cars, we should have two or three others that are capable of reasonably easily descending.

Yes.  I will be bringing my manual transmission car.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: jpi on May 04, 2015, 02:55:37 PM
I will have a rental that will be automatice so I prefer to ride with someone on this tour. :-)

I will be in this situation as well. :)
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

oscar

#46
Quote from: codyg1985 on May 04, 2015, 03:10:20 PM
I have an engine braking mode on my Prius, but I'm not sure how that will fare on the descent. It did well going down some steep hills in West Virginia.

So does mine. It might get by on the descent, though I'm unsure it's equivalent to the first gear I've used (in other vehicles) on previous descents. For people using rentals, odds are your automatic transmissions can be put into first gear, though I used to have one (1986 Honda Prelude) with an automatic transmission (big mistake, for a Prelude) that could be manually downshifted only to second gear. You can also stop for a brake check halfway down (as I did in my Prelude on the descent from Pikes Peak), if mountain goats don't force you to take a break anyway.

I'd be more worried about the ascent from Echo Lake Lodge (more than 3000' altitude below the Mt. Evans summit, with almost no level or downhill stretches between the Lodge and the Summit), which would quickly drain the hybrid battery so you'd be relying solely on the little gas motor the rest of the way up. My Prius has done OK on other trips in the Rockies, but the worst I had to deal with were relatively short grades followed by level or downhill stretches where I could recharge the hybrid battery before climbing the next grade. For comparison, my Prius handled comfortably the climb up and descent from Loveland Pass on US 6, about 12,000 feet altitude compared to Mt. Evans' 14200'+.

I was planning not to take my Prius to the Mt. Evans summit. I hope there'll be enough vehicles with low gears and bigger (or turbo'd) gas or diesel engines, to fit everybody in the meet group (with room to spare, as discussed upthread, in case someone has to descend immediately due to altitude sickness).
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

J N Winkler

AIUI, the Prius has regenerative braking, so in that sense it may be better equipped to handle hill descents than vehicles with a conventional powertrain.  The trouble (as Oscar alludes) will be getting it up to the Mt. Evans summit in the first place; in my surfing I found references to a Prius having to turn back down shy of the summit when its battery charge ran out and the small gasoline-powered engine couldn't provide enough juice to finish the climb.

At this stage I am planning to use my Saturn for this trip (consensus on the SaturnFans forum:  "Don't worry" about Mt. Evans).  On roadmeet drives, I normally prefer to drive myself and offer the front passenger seat to someone who wants it, rather than take a rear passenger seat in someone else's car.  (I usually wind up in the backseat since I normally don't take through-the-windshield video or photos.  There probably won't be a reason for me to make an exception on this trip since CDOT has photologging online.)  However, I plan to play things by ear since there may be limited parking at the Mt. Evans summit.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Duke87

My car's low gear (just labeled "L") is shit under most circumstances since it basically wants to slow me down to 20 MPH whenever I go into it even if that means revving at 4000+ RPM. This I suppose is roughly equivalent to "first gear", but since my transmission is a CVT, the concept of having a small and finite number of gear ratios is foreign to it. I've played with moving the car back and forth between D and L to get some engine braking without slowing down to grandpa speed, but this is only somewhat effective.

Whether it would manage to slow me down quite so much at high altitude is an open question since this car has yet to be driven west of the Mississippi. I'm crazy enough to attempt the drive anyway although I will gladly defer to others with better equipped vehicles for the tour. Especially since it's not like this trip involves me putting 10,000 miles on my car in two weeks or anything like that. :awesomeface:
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

SSOWorld

I have a quick-shifting auto in my car and it has the ability to go between gears manually.  With 5 speeds and easy transition (flick it ;) ) - it was useful for engine braking in the mountains E and W. I'll coast down a hill on I-70 in Colorado in 3rd or 4th gear - better than burning out the brakes (which had been replaced prior - in 2013)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.



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