South Mountain Freeway gains final federal approval (http://"http://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2015/03/10/south-mountain-freeway-gains-final-federal-approval")
It looks like the FHWA has approved the South Mountain Freeway. I expect there will be some lawsuits, but I expect them to be tossed quickly.
Link appears to be broken. When clicked, it redirects me to a Viglink site telling me that the URL is invalid.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 10, 2015, 08:26:51 PM
South Mountain Freeway gains final federal approval (http://"http://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2015/03/10/south-mountain-freeway-gains-final-federal-approval")
It looks like the FHWA has approved the South Mountain Freeway. I expect there will be some lawsuits, but I expect them to be tossed quickly.
Corrected link: http://azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2015/03/10/south-mountain-freeway-gains-final-federal-approval
Seems like a decent project overall. Nearly $2 Billion to construct...
I am glad this project is moving forward. It will be interesting (and probably somewhat frustrating) to watch the effects of the interchange construction along I-10.
This is a good thing! Hopefully we'll be able to drive on it in five years, if not sooner.
I still think it should hook into I-10 at the Loop 101 in Tolleson, rather than 59th Avenue.
Quote from: hm insulators on March 11, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
I still think it should hook into I-10 at the Loop 101 in Tolleson, rather than 59th Avenue.
Downtown Tolleson would have to be bulldozed if that were to happen.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 11, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: hm insulators on March 11, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
I still think it should hook into I-10 at the Loop 101 in Tolleson, rather than 59th Avenue.
Downtown Tolleson would have to be bulldozed if that were to happen.
Downtown Tolleson is a distribution center and a Freightliner truck dealer? Arizona sucks.
I can't wait to drive on it! Hopefully this will bring some relief to I- 10.
Quote from: NE2 on March 11, 2015, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 11, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: hm insulators on March 11, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
I still think it should hook into I-10 at the Loop 101 in Tolleson, rather than 59th Avenue.
Downtown Tolleson would have to be bulldozed if that were to happen.
Downtown Tolleson is a distribution center and a Freightliner truck dealer? Arizona sucks.
Once the 202 is tied in with the 10 at 55th ave, I-10 will have eight freeway to freeway interchanges within a 28 mile span. Once 85 is upgraded to a full freeway, that number will be ten within 50 miles.
Quote from: roadiejay on March 12, 2015, 01:37:53 AM
Quote from: NE2 on March 11, 2015, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 11, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: hm insulators on March 11, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
I still think it should hook into I-10 at the Loop 101 in Tolleson, rather than 59th Avenue.
Downtown Tolleson would have to be bulldozed if that were to happen.
Downtown Tolleson is a distribution center and a Freightliner truck dealer? Arizona sucks.
Once the 202 is tied in with the 10 at 55th ave, I-10 will have eight freeway to freeway interchanges within a 28 mile span. Once 85 is upgraded to a full freeway, that number will be ten within 50 miles.
Good thing they have SR 30 planned.
Quote from: roadiejay on March 12, 2015, 01:37:53 AM
Quote from: NE2 on March 11, 2015, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 11, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: hm insulators on March 11, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
I still think it should hook into I-10 at the Loop 101 in Tolleson, rather than 59th Avenue.
Downtown Tolleson would have to be bulldozed if that were to happen.
Downtown Tolleson is a distribution center and a Freightliner truck dealer? Arizona sucks.
Once the 202 is tied in with the 10 at 55th ave, I-10 will have eight freeway to freeway interchanges within a 28 mile span. Once 85 is upgraded to a full freeway, that number will be ten within 50 miles.
This has been my biggest gripe for how they are planning this.
Starting at the 85, you have this to go through.
85 -> 303 - 12 miles
303 -> 101 - 9 miles
101 -> 202 - 5 miles
202 -> 17 - 4.5 miles
17 -> 202/51 - 4 miles
202/51 -> 17 - 3 miles
17 -> 143 - 3.5 miles
143 -> 60 - 3 miles
60 -> 202 - 6 miles
Sounds like a lot of weaving and merging.
That, and the construction process is going to be a mess along I-10/59th Ave. I just don't see how they are fitting a full freeway-to-freeway interchange in the middle of this...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi16.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb15%2Fazbobbybooshay10%2F10_202_59thAve_zpsxtepvsh6.jpg&hash=e518ff46dd1c0cc6bbabbb98b3e654131917dc3f)
^ Lots of property acquisition...
An ADOT page linked earlier has a fairly detailed simulation video showing the whole freeway proposal.
http://wwwa.azdot.gov/projects/south-mtn-final-eis/smfeis_ch_3_alternatives.pdf (pp. 49, 56) shows that it'll be entirely east of 59th, meaning it'll fuck the apartments but not the single-family homes.
p. 64 shows the I-11 corridor far to the west on Vulture Mine Road. This, currently a two-lane road, actually looks like a reasonable bypass right now.
The I-10 relieving part may happen at a better scale with the building of AZ 30. Honestly without AZ 30, this stretch of Loop 202 would seem pretty indirect, long and out of the way for Interstate traffic compared to the straight forward route of I-10.
Quote from: NE2 on March 11, 2015, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 11, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: hm insulators on March 11, 2015, 04:43:22 PM
I still think it should hook into I-10 at the Loop 101 in Tolleson, rather than 59th Avenue.
Downtown Tolleson would have to be bulldozed if that were to happen.
Downtown Tolleson is a distribution center and a Freightliner truck dealer? Arizona sucks.
I think the connection to I-10 could have been along 99th Ave. So maybe they redo the current I-10/Loop 101 interchange, and turn current 99th Ave into one-way frontage roads with the 201/101 in the middle for a few miles. Tolleson could have had residences and businesses and still have potential freeway frontage. Guess it's too late now.
Looking at the map regarding Proposition 300 in 1985, the Loop 202 connection to I-10 was originally proposed at around 55th Ave.
http://wwwa.azdot.gov/projects/south-mtn-final-eis/smfeis_ch_1_purpose-and-need.pdf
Look on page 6 of the pdf.
Looks like PARC is planning a lawsuit against ADOT and the FHWA. Hopefully ADOT files a countersuit as criminal rather than civil charges against PARC and sends every single member of that criminal organization to jail.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 20, 2015, 09:42:55 PM
Looks like PARC is planning a lawsuit against ADOT and the FHWA. Hopefully ADOT files a countersuit as criminal rather than civil charges against PARC and sends every single member of that criminal organization to jail.
What exactly are they even filing a lawsuit for?
Quote from: Zeffy on March 20, 2015, 09:47:29 PM
What exactly are they even filing a lawsuit for?
Just to stop the freeway. This is why ADOT should file a countersuit for abuse of the legal system and interfering with ADOT's and the FHWA's legal authority.
I've heard that one of the top people in PARC purposely bought two houses in Ahwatukee, along the current Pecos Road corridor.
Anyway, for those of you on Facebook, here's a page that supports the South Mountain Freeway:
https://www.facebook.com/Loop202
Quote from: Sonic99 on March 13, 2015, 12:06:48 AM
I just don't see how they are fitting a full freeway-to-freeway interchange in the middle of this...
Right-of-way maps and plans for the I-10 interchange can be seen here http://smfonlinehearing.com/maps/
ADOT seems to have built these newer roads in the phoenix metro area for the most part right the first time around. The SW section or 202 should link directly into the 101 freeway, to make it coherent, and to continue the pattern, and finish the network correctly.
Looks like PARC and several other criminal leftist organizations have filed a lawsuit to block the South Mountain Freeway:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/05/19/phoenix-south-mountain-freeway-lawsuit-abri/27578365/
Hopefully ADOT files a countersuit with criminal charges against all of those organizations to throw every single member of those organizations in jail.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 19, 2015, 06:04:24 PM
Looks like PARC and several other criminal leftist organizations have filed a lawsuit to block the South Mountain Freeway:
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/05/19/phoenix-south-mountain-freeway-lawsuit-abri/27578365/
Hopefully ADOT files a countersuit with criminal charges against all of those organizations to throw every single member of those organizations in jail.
Amen.
Sorry, but however you may oppose frivolous lawsuits like this one, calling opponents "criminal leftists" for exercising their Consitutional rights is way over the line. Their case is bogus and should be thrown out of court, but they have that right to express their grievances. Plus, there are plenty of lefties who aren't radically anti-freeway...I'm one of them.
Quote from: Anthony_JK on May 21, 2015, 02:01:24 AM
Sorry, but however you may oppose frivolous lawsuits like this one, calling opponents "criminal leftists" for exercising their Consitutional rights is way over the line. Their case is bogus and should be thrown out of court, but they have that right to express their grievances. Plus, there are plenty of lefties who aren't radically anti-freeway...I'm one of them.
Seconded. What criminal acts are they performing? They want to protect their land, as would anyone.
Disagreeing with you isn't a crime.
Loop 202 - South Mountain Freeway has been on the ADOT/MAG regional freeway plan was funded in 1985 for 20 years and renewed in 2005 to 2025.
The community was only built as far West as Desert Foothills Parkway (10th Street) in 1985
Today the community is built as far West as 19th Avenue.
Quote from: mapman1071 on May 23, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
Loop 202 - South Mountain Freeway has been on the ADOT/MAG regional freeway plan was funded in 1985 for 20 years and renewed in 2005 to 2025.
The community was only built as far West as Desert Foothills Parkway (10th Street) in 1985
Today the community is built as far West as 19th Avenue.
There is a residential area between the 27th Ave and 35th Ave alignments.
I think it's safe to say that this will not be a canceled freeway, because the FHWA supports it, and construction has begun. Residents are starting to slightly move out east, but that's ok. I think Phoenix will have completely finished its freeway system (except I-11, but it's a supported project), with opposition only on the I-10 tunnel.
Local opposition killed AZ 50/Paradise Parkway, which was to be an east/west freeway running from Loop 101 in Glendale to AZ 51 in Phoenix, about 4 miles north of I-10. There were also plans for the AZ 153 freeway to be extended south to meet I-10 at the 40th Street interchange, but it was never built and AZ 153 was converted to a surface street, decommissioned as a state route, and transferred to Phoenix.
Quote from: dfwmapper on May 25, 2015, 12:23:28 AM
Local opposition killed AZ 50/Paradise Parkway, which was to be an east/west freeway running from Loop 101 in Glendale to AZ 51 in Phoenix, about 4 miles north of I-10. There were also plans for the AZ 153 freeway to be extended south to meet I-10 at the 40th Street interchange, but it was never built and AZ 153 was converted to a surface street, decommissioned as a state route, and transferred to Phoenix.
The problem with SR 153 is that it was redundant with SR 143 from the start. The road was underutilized the entire time it existed.
Not entirely. The ramps connecting southbound AZ 143 and Sky Harbor Blvd are both relatively new. Getting from east Phoenix to the airport used to require taking AZ 153, and getting from the airport to Ahwatukee, Chandler and parts of Tempe required taking AZ 153 to University to AZ 143, which was a serious pain in the ass for everyone involved.
When is the Loop 202 extension scheduled to be constructed?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 28, 2015, 04:28:06 PM
When is the Loop 202 extension scheduled to be constructed?
Construction is supposed to start in early 2016.
Looks like the Gila River Indian Community is filing a separate lawsuit to stop the freeway. ADOT should file criminal countersuits against both and have the leaders of both organizations thrown in jail for life.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on June 30, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
Looks like the Gila River Indian Community is filing a separate lawsuit to stop the freeway. ADOT should file criminal countersuits against both and have the leaders of both organizations thrown in jail for life.
Wow! That's kind of harsh don't you think? :wow:
Quote from: myosh_tino on June 30, 2015, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on June 30, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
Looks like the Gila River Indian Community is filing a separate lawsuit to stop the freeway. ADOT should file criminal countersuits against both and have the leaders of both organizations thrown in jail for life.
Wow! That's kind of harsh don't you think? :wow:
I think Pink Jazz forgot the ";-)" emoticon, because taken literally, he's not making any sense.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on June 30, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
Looks like the Gila River Indian Community is filing a separate lawsuit to stop the freeway. ADOT should file criminal countersuits against both and have the leaders of both organizations thrown in jail for life.
Thrown in jail for what? Disagreeing with a government agency? Disagreeing with you?
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 30, 2015, 05:59:18 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on June 30, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
Looks like the Gila River Indian Community is filing a separate lawsuit to stop the freeway. ADOT should file criminal countersuits against both and have the leaders of both organizations thrown in jail for life.
Thrown in jail for what? Disagreeing with a government agency? Disagreeing with you?
They're lucky they don't get capital punishment!
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 30, 2015, 05:59:18 PM
Thrown in jail for what? Disagreeing with a government agency? Disagreeing with you?
Abuse of the legal system. Malicious lawsuits like these should result in the arrest of the plaintiff. Neither of these lawsuits have any merit and should be tossed immediately.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/phoenix-area/2313570-fhwa-approves-loop-202-south-mountain.html
QuoteThe lawsuit alleges federal and state agencies violated the National Environmental Policy Act and the Department of Transportation Act by failing to consider the harm the freeway would inflict on the environment and on historical and cultural resources. The lawsuit also alleges that the agencies ignored their obligations to avoid or mitigate harm to the environment and to community members.
is the lawsuit
http://azdot.gov/projects/phoenix-metro-area/loop-202-south-mountain-freeway/final-eis
is the EIS.
The preferred alternative (identified in the ROD - if you're unfamiliar with how this works, an EIS or Environmental Impact Statement has to be completed before federal funds can be used, and that EIS informs the ROD, or Record of Decision, which identifies the preferred alternative and the measures needed to properly implement) http://azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/sm-rod-vol-i-chapter-15.pdf?sfvrsn=2 is the one that has the most direct harm to cultural resources. No real measures are taken with the preferred alternative to minimize damage (http://azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/sm-rod-vol-i-chapter-4.pdf?sfvrsn=2).
You can disagree with the lawsuit, but it's hardly frivolous. A less expensive alternative that does more damage was chosen, and no real measures were taken to minimize the damage of that preferred alternative to those resources- whether or not that is the correct decision is something that should get a fair trial.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on June 30, 2015, 07:01:28 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 30, 2015, 05:59:18 PM
Thrown in jail for what? Disagreeing with a government agency? Disagreeing with you?
Abuse of the legal system. Malicious lawsuits like these should result in the arrest of the plaintiff. Neither of these lawsuits have any merit and should be tossed immediately.
This is a terrible idea. And by terrible, I mean borderline evil. I get that you're upset, but throwing people in prison for filing a lawsuit, whatever the reason, is just too much.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on June 30, 2015, 07:01:28 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 30, 2015, 05:59:18 PM
Thrown in jail for what? Disagreeing with a government agency? Disagreeing with you?
Abuse of the legal system. Malicious lawsuits like these should result in the arrest of the plaintiff. Neither of these lawsuits have any merit and should be tossed immediately.
Anyone remember the Perkins Union?
Have they decided on an alignment as of yet? One would think that a route skirting the reservation could be a win - win. Funneling customers to an existing or future casino would be one major one i can think of.
Quote from: DJStephens on July 07, 2015, 08:11:47 PM
Have they decided on an alignment as of yet? One would think that a route skirting the reservation could be a win - win. Funneling customers to an existing or future casino would be one major one i can think of.
Yes, the FHWA decided on the Pecos Road and 59th Avenue alignment.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3FvR8mG.jpg&hash=c84b1c2d9a6668e2716361e809fb6b39d33e56fc)
I have heard plans for future shopping centers on tribal land south of the Pecos alignment. Vee Quiva casino near 51st Avenue and Ray Road will be served by the 51st Avenue interchange.
I don't think jail/prison time should be associated with parties who file frivilous lawsuits that hold up major public works projects like Loop 202. However, I would take great pleasure if those if those same parties were forced to pay all the court costs borne by ADOT, Maricopa County and all other related municipalities involved in Loop 202's final leg of construction. Now, that would be justice !!!
Quote from: Concrete Bob on July 07, 2015, 11:55:06 PM
I don't think jail/prison time should be associated with parties who file frivilous lawsuits that hold up major public works projects like Loop 202. However, I would take great pleasure if those if those same parties were forced to pay all the court costs borne by ADOT, Maricopa County and all other related municipalities involved in Loop 202's final leg of construction. Now, that would be justice !!!
Yep, once they start talking about taking REAL money out of their rear ends, they'll start considering it. "Can I continue to make an ass of myself if I'm going to have to file Chapter 7 or 13 if I file another lawsuit? Hmmm, decisions decisions..."
How about this, knock off the lawsuits and just leave ADOT alone? As much as I don't like it that people are trying to sue ADOT for building a road, they're within their constitutional bounds to do it. I do believe however that reforms should occur, making sure frivolous lawsuits like these ones aren't accepted by the courts and that progress is allowed to continue its path. The way I see it is these lawsuits are anti-progress hippies who are just trying to very rudely and meanly destroy industry blindly hypnotized by old communists from the Soviet era who hate this country and want to watch the US fall in revenge for their failed tyrannical country's self created demise. "Why can't we have nice things?" That's why. Say what you want, but I'm standing my ground on this and support freeway construction to the end in Arizona.
Quote from: 707 on July 10, 2015, 01:51:34 AM
The way I see it is these lawsuits are anti-progress hippies who are just trying to very rudely and meanly destroy industry blindly hypnotized by old communists from the Soviet era who hate this country and want to watch the US fall in revenge for their failed tyrannical country's self created demise.
:eyebrow:
Quote from: 707 on July 10, 2015, 01:51:34 AM
How about this, knock off the lawsuits and just leave ADOT alone? As much as I don't like it that people are trying to sue ADOT for building a road, they're within their constitutional bounds to do it. I do believe however that reforms should occur, making sure frivolous lawsuits like these ones aren't accepted by the courts and that progress is allowed to continue its path. The way I see it is these lawsuits are anti-progress hippies who are just trying to very rudely and meanly destroy industry blindly hypnotized by old communists from the Soviet era who hate this country and want to watch the US fall in revenge for their failed tyrannical country's self created demise. "Why can't we have nice things?" That's why. Say what you want, but I'm standing my ground on this and support freeway construction to the end in Arizona.
I have an idea: plow right through the Gila River Indian Community and not put a single exit in it.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 10, 2015, 10:42:23 AM
I have an idea: plow right through the Gila River Indian Community and not put a single exit in it.
Well, for starters, the lawsuit filed to stop that would be entirely successful. :-D
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/ahwatukee/2015/07/30/judge-refuses-block-south-mountain-freeway-ap/30876207/
Apparently, having a Native American judge didn't help the Gila River tribe at all. ADOT may now proceed.
Talk about irony there! It's going to be interesting to see how much of it actually gets built.
Interesting how there's so much talk about the handful of houses and a church that need to be bulldozed in Ahwatukee, but no talk at all of the dozens of businesses along 59th Ave that will be wiped out. Watch the fly-through video on that link, then look at Google Maps and see just what all is getting wiped out. There are dozens of businesses that will be removed along that corridor.
Will it be built, or will opposition kill it? Or is it too early to tell?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 07, 2015, 04:48:04 PM
Will it be built, or will opposition kill it? Or is it too early to tell?
Since the injunction has been rejected, ADOT will be allowed to begin demolition of vacant buildings beginning on August 26. Construction however, won't begin until March after a final ruling is made. Hopefully ADOT has the guts to file a countersuit against PARC and the Gila River Indian Community to get their lawsuit tossed. In addition, I hope PARC and the Gila River Indian Community get caught lying under oath and be forced to pay 100% of ADOT's court fees.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 07, 2015, 05:29:23 PM
In addition, I hope PARC and the Gila River Indian Community get caught lying under oath and be forced to pay 100% of ADOT's court fees.
Do you have some sort of moral obligation to hate anyone who dares question the actions of AZDOT?
Quote from: Sonic99 on August 07, 2015, 03:28:50 AM
Interesting how there's so much talk about the handful of houses and a church that need to be bulldozed in Ahwatukee, but no talk at all of the dozens of businesses along 59th Ave that will be wiped out. Watch the fly-through video on that link, then look at Google Maps and see just what all is getting wiped out. There are dozens of businesses that will be removed along that corridor.
That is exactly why it needs to be routed through Tolleson, not along 59th. Right decision in approving the highway, it is needed to complete the SW belt route, but wrong route decision (on the west and north end).
Quote from: DJStephens on August 08, 2015, 11:54:36 PM
Quote from: Sonic99 on August 07, 2015, 03:28:50 AM
Interesting how there's so much talk about the handful of houses and a church that need to be bulldozed in Ahwatukee, but no talk at all of the dozens of businesses along 59th Ave that will be wiped out. Watch the fly-through video on that link, then look at Google Maps and see just what all is getting wiped out. There are dozens of businesses that will be removed along that corridor.
That is exactly why it needs to be routed through Tolleson, not along 59th. Right decision in approving the highway, it is needed to complete the SW belt route, but wrong route decision (on the west and north end).
I believe the problem with Tolleson is that the route through Tolleson would've wiped out the entire downtown.
I also agree that a direct connection to the Loop 101 in Tolleson would be preferable than routing it down 59th, but we're way past that point now.
Quote from: ztonyg on August 09, 2015, 01:30:43 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on August 08, 2015, 11:54:36 PM
Quote from: Sonic99 on August 07, 2015, 03:28:50 AM
Interesting how there's so much talk about the handful of houses and a church that need to be bulldozed in Ahwatukee, but no talk at all of the dozens of businesses along 59th Ave that will be wiped out. Watch the fly-through video on that link, then look at Google Maps and see just what all is getting wiped out. There are dozens of businesses that will be removed along that corridor.
That is exactly why it needs to be routed through Tolleson, not along 59th. Right decision in approving the highway, it is needed to complete the SW belt route, but wrong route decision (on the west and north end).
I believe the problem with Tolleson is that the route through Tolleson would've wiped out the entire downtown.
I also agree that a direct connection to the Loop 101 in Tolleson would be preferable than routing it down 59th, but we're way past that point now.
If they put the connection from Loop 202 to Loop 101 each dirction with a C/D ramp at 2 through lanes then it might work out.
Additional stories on Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway:
http://www.azfamily.com/story/29731550/progress-continues-on-south-mountain-freeway-corridor
QuoteVacant properties owned by the Arizona Department of Transportation will soon begin (August 26, 2015) to be removed to clear a path for the future Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway, which is the last piece to complete the Loop 202 system and provide a direct link between the West Valley and East Valley. Nearly 200 vacant properties owned by the state will be razed in advance of freeway construction, which is set to begin in summer 2016.
For more than 20 years, but accelerating since late March, ADOT has been acquiring the necessary right of way for the South Mountain Freeway, including homes, businesses, and agricultural and industrial properties. Now ADOT is ready to begin clearing those properties in preparation for the 2016 start of freeway construction. ...
The South Mountain Freeway will be constructed with four lanes in each direction three general-use lanes and one HOV lane and modern features that have made Arizona freeways stand apart from other states for a generation, including rubberized asphalt and aesthetics designed in partnership with the community. The $1.75 billion project is expected to take about four years to construct under an innovative public-private partnership that will have a private developer design, construct and maintain the freeway for 30 years. This public-private partnership will reduce costs to taxpayers while accelerating construction for this corridor.
http://ktar.com/2015/08/06/adot-to-begin-freeway-demolition-despite-suit-not-owning-homes/
QuoteThe agency plans to begin demolition on Aug. 26. It will remove two homes per day from the freeway's eventual path just south of the community of Ahwatukee. When it's completed, it will extend the Loop 202 by 22 miles to connect Interstate 10 in Chandler and Laveen.
However, some roadblocks may remain.
Dustin Krugel said the department has completed the purchase of 85 homes and has an additional 42 in escrow. Construction plans call for the purchase and demolition of 200 homes, meaning 73 are not under state control. ADOT is hoping to avoid any delays in the project.
Opponents of the freeway filed a lawsuit to block it in March.
"Move the freeway somewhere else or just scrap the idea," Pat Lawlis with Protecting Arizona Resources and Children said when the suit was filed.
Lawlis said the freeway would place 17 schools with 15,000 students into a zone that would be negatively affected by air pollution, something ADOT spokesman Tim Tait said is untrue.
So the fight is not over yet...
As of Thu 8/27 demolition has begun along the Ahwatukee section of future Loop 202.
https://www.facebook.com/ABC15/posts/10153192878981359
http://bit.ly/1EmzDvS
It's nice to see that some progress is finally being made.
I noticed something I found interesting in the plans for I-10 interchange with the South Mountain Freeway. This https://youtu.be/lJ2nyBL3BFw?t=372 (https://youtu.be/lJ2nyBL3BFw?t=372) video and this right of way map (http://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/smf_map20.pdf) show that the HOV lanes on I-10 are going to diverge from the general purpose lanes to make room for the support columns for the flyovers. The HOV lanes then meet back with the general purpose lanes before the HOV ramp merges.
Anyone know about another interchange like this? Where some lanes separate and the support columns are sort of "within" the travel lanes?
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 01, 2015, 07:28:24 PM
I noticed something I found interesting in the plans for I-10 interchange with the South Mountain Freeway. This https://youtu.be/lJ2nyBL3BFw?t=372 (https://youtu.be/lJ2nyBL3BFw?t=372) video and this right of way map (http://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/smf_map20.pdf) show that the HOV lanes on I-10 are going to diverge from the general purpose lanes to make room for the support columns for the flyovers. The HOV lanes then meet back with the general purpose lanes before the HOV ramp merges.
I've noticed this as well. Another thing that is interesting to me is that the new eastbound lanes will be located much further to the south to make room for the HOV ramps, and the new westbound frontage road, westbound main lanes and both HOV ramps will take up more room than all 10 lanes of I-10 currently do.
Some big changes coming to this portion of I-10. It's gong to look so different.
Also interesting that the 63rd Ave overpass will be torn down before it ever gets used. Hard to believe it got built with the original Papago project I'm sure in the late 80's, and has never been utilized.
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on September 01, 2015, 10:55:18 PM
Some big changes coming to this portion of I-10. It's gong to look so different.
Yep. The new eastbound lanes around the interchange will be built entirely out of the currently owned right of way. It look like the section between the 51st Ave alignment and the 59th Ave alignment will be completely reconstructed. Several cross street interchange ramps will be reconstructed, along with the frontage roads between 67th, 59th, and 51st avenues. I think in total the construction zone will stretch from 35th Ave to 83rd Ave.
Since I don't have to drive this section of I-10 very often, the sadistic side of me can't wait to sit back and see how terrible rush hour traffic will be during all this construction.
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 02, 2015, 01:22:45 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on September 01, 2015, 10:55:18 PM
Some big changes coming to this portion of I-10. It's gong to look so different.
Yep. The new eastbound lanes around the interchange will be built entirely out of the currently owned right of way. It look like the section between the 51st Ave alignment and the 59th Ave alignment will be completely reconstructed. Several cross street interchange ramps will be reconstructed, along with the frontage roads between 67th, 59th, and 51st avenues. I think in total the construction zone will stretch from 35th Ave to 83rd Ave.
Since I don't have to drive this section of I-10 very often, the sadistic side of me can't wait to sit back and see how terrible rush hour traffic will be during all this construction.
I wouldn't be surprised if somehow ADOT managed to squeeze an extra general lane in each direction to cover the area between Loop 101 and I-17. I can see 5 lanes + 1 HOV in each direction from Loop 101 ramps to Loop 202 ramps, and between Loop 202 ramps and I-17. Lane drops probably scattered in there as well.
Quote from: swbrotha100 on September 02, 2015, 09:00:50 AM
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 02, 2015, 01:22:45 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on September 01, 2015, 10:55:18 PM
Some big changes coming to this portion of I-10. It's gong to look so different.
Yep. The new eastbound lanes around the interchange will be built entirely out of the currently owned right of way. It look like the section between the 51st Ave alignment and the 59th Ave alignment will be completely reconstructed. Several cross street interchange ramps will be reconstructed, along with the frontage roads between 67th, 59th, and 51st avenues. I think in total the construction zone will stretch from 35th Ave to 83rd Ave.
Since I don't have to drive this section of I-10 very often, the sadistic side of me can't wait to sit back and see how terrible rush hour traffic will be during all this construction.
I wouldn't be surprised if somehow ADOT managed to squeeze an extra general lane in each direction to cover the area between Loop 101 and I-17. I can see 5 lanes + 1 HOV in each direction from Loop 101 ramps to Loop 202 ramps, and between Loop 202 ramps and I-17. Lane drops probably scattered in there as well.
The problem is, now you've brought Tolleson into the equation by sheer accident. That means another suburb of Phoenix has to take sides. The Gila River Indian Community is enough.
Quote from: swbrotha100 on September 02, 2015, 09:00:50 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if somehow ADOT managed to squeeze an extra general lane in each direction to cover the area between Loop 101 and I-17. I can see 5 lanes + 1 HOV in each direction from Loop 101 ramps to Loop 202 ramps, and between Loop 202 ramps and I-17. Lane drops probably scattered in there as well.
I think you are correct. I-10 is already 5 lanes + 1 HOV in both directions between 35th Ave and I-17, and eastbound I-10 is 5 lanes + 1 HOV between Loop 101 and 75th Ave. The plans seem to show that I-10 will be 4 lanes + 1 HOV each direction within the interchange, and 5 lanes + 1 HOV on either side of the interchange not including auxiliary and merging lanes.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 02, 2015, 03:46:41 PM
Quote from: swbrotha100 on September 02, 2015, 09:00:50 AM
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 02, 2015, 01:22:45 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on September 01, 2015, 10:55:18 PM
Some big changes coming to this portion of I-10. It's gong to look so different.
Yep. The new eastbound lanes around the interchange will be built entirely out of the currently owned right of way. It look like the section between the 51st Ave alignment and the 59th Ave alignment will be completely reconstructed. Several cross street interchange ramps will be reconstructed, along with the frontage roads between 67th, 59th, and 51st avenues. I think in total the construction zone will stretch from 35th Ave to 83rd Ave.
Since I don't have to drive this section of I-10 very often, the sadistic side of me can't wait to sit back and see how terrible rush hour traffic will be during all this construction.
I wouldn't be surprised if somehow ADOT managed to squeeze an extra general lane in each direction to cover the area between Loop 101 and I-17. I can see 5 lanes + 1 HOV in each direction from Loop 101 ramps to Loop 202 ramps, and between Loop 202 ramps and I-17. Lane drops probably scattered in there as well.
The problem is, now you've brought Tolleson into the equation by sheer accident. That means another suburb of Phoenix has to take sides. The Gila River Indian Community is enough.
How is Tolleson affected if Loop 202 connects to I-10 at 59th Ave? An extra WB lane can be added to I-10 in that stretch with little impact.
Quote from: swbrotha100 on September 02, 2015, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 02, 2015, 03:46:41 PM
Quote from: swbrotha100 on September 02, 2015, 09:00:50 AM
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 02, 2015, 01:22:45 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on September 01, 2015, 10:55:18 PM
Some big changes coming to this portion of I-10. It's gong to look so different.
Yep. The new eastbound lanes around the interchange will be built entirely out of the currently owned right of way. It look like the section between the 51st Ave alignment and the 59th Ave alignment will be completely reconstructed. Several cross street interchange ramps will be reconstructed, along with the frontage roads between 67th, 59th, and 51st avenues. I think in total the construction zone will stretch from 35th Ave to 83rd Ave.
Since I don't have to drive this section of I-10 very often, the sadistic side of me can't wait to sit back and see how terrible rush hour traffic will be during all this construction.
I wouldn't be surprised if somehow ADOT managed to squeeze an extra general lane in each direction to cover the area between Loop 101 and I-17. I can see 5 lanes + 1 HOV in each direction from Loop 101 ramps to Loop 202 ramps, and between Loop 202 ramps and I-17. Lane drops probably scattered in there as well.
The problem is, now you've brought Tolleson into the equation by sheer accident. That means another suburb of Phoenix has to take sides. The Gila River Indian Community is enough.
How is Tolleson affected if Loop 202 connects to I-10 at 59th Ave? An extra WB lane can be added to I-10 in that stretch with little impact.
Oops. Messed up my boundary thinking there.
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 01, 2015, 07:28:24 PM
I noticed something I found interesting in the plans for I-10 interchange with the South Mountain Freeway. This https://youtu.be/lJ2nyBL3BFw?t=372 (https://youtu.be/lJ2nyBL3BFw?t=372) video and this right of way map (http://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/smf_map20.pdf) show that the HOV lanes on I-10 are going to diverge from the general purpose lanes to make room for the support columns for the flyovers. The HOV lanes then meet back with the general purpose lanes before the HOV ramp merges.
Anyone know about another interchange like this? Where some lanes separate and the support columns are sort of "within" the travel lanes?
Also shoehorn in the Proposed (2025) I-10 West Line of Light Rail running on the North Side of I-10 From 43rd Avenue to 79th Avenue (From 27th Avenue to 39th Avenue the I-10 West Line is proposed to run in the median)
I-10 has an extra wide median in Phoenix from 91st Ave to the I-17 split (excluding where there are current HOV exit ramps). I know there were plans for various types of mass transit going west of downtown, but was anything ever planned going east of downtown? Or is the median extra wide simply because it was built later than other sections of I-10 in the Phoenix area?
Quote from: swbrotha100 on September 03, 2015, 03:41:06 PM
I-10 has an extra wide median in Phoenix from 91st Ave to the I-17 split (excluding where there are current HOV exit ramps). I know there were plans for various types of mass transit going west of downtown, but was anything ever planned going east of downtown? Or is the median extra wide simply because it was built later than other sections of I-10 in the Phoenix area?
I don't believe there is a plan to route the light rail through the median in the area around the split and the mini-stack. This valley metro map (http://www.valleymetro.org/metro_projects_planning) shows the proposed routes. The wide median starting at the split was probably for the purposes of HOV ramps. The HOV ramps from Loop 202 to I-10 were part of the original mini-stack in the early 90s, and the HOV exit for SR-51 was constructed around 2004.
Update on the South Mountain Freeway from 11/9/2015:
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=8e47a113-8a81-4094-835f-de890009ac15
QuoteArizona Department of Transportation received proposals from all three short-listed teams vying to develop the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway Project. ... This $1.9 billion megaproject includes the design, construction and 30-year maintenance of the last section of the Loop 202 Freeway — a route which will stretch 22 miles from the Maricopa Freeway segment of I-10 to the Papago Freeway segment of I-10 in the southwestern quadrant of the Phoenix Metropolitan Area. It is the single largest highway project ever undertaken by ADOT. ... The South Mountain freeway will break new ground as the first highway project procured under Arizona's P3 statute, and ADOT's first design-build-maintain project. ADOT will fund the project capital costs with a combination of available federal funds, regional sales tax revenues and tax-exempt bonds. ... Proposal evaluations, involving scores of technical experts, are underway. A best value determination and proposer rankings are expected by mid-January 2016.
But, opposition remains:
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2015/11/05/loop-202-south-mountain-freeway-schedule-continues.html
QuoteThe Arizona Department of Transportation is continuing to move forward with construction of Loop 202 into the West Valley, despite some recent court wrangling and reports it had been put off until July 2016. The court case has not stopped demolition of homes along the proposed freeway's path nor rights-of-way acquisitions for the 22-mile route from Interstate 10 to the 59th Avenue alignment in Phoenix. A report circulating through media on Thursday had said the construction was put off from the initial start date, but ADOT officials said July was the intended start date regardless of the lawsuit.
http://www.ahwatukee.com/opinion/article_33b8f5f0-693c-11e5-ae16-ab8290aceac2.html
QuoteCurrently, the proposed name for the 202 western extension is the South Mountain Freeway, a shortened version of the full name "The Destruction of South Mountain Freeway." But I believe collectively we can come up with a better, more accurate name. My proposal is the "$2 billion-plus Boondoggle Freeway," a very accurate name describing the money sink that is this potential highway. With the rate ADOT (Arizona Department of Transportation) is already blowing through our tax dollars with a lawsuit in progress blocking the freeway from ever being built, it will undoubtedly cost $3 or $4 billion in the unlikely event that it actually proceeds. So the name is perfect, and adds the opportunity for a bit of local historical color along the highway.
http://mesalegend.com/mcc-mural-presents-native-strife/
QuoteRenee "˜Missy' Jackson, is member of the Tohono O'odham nation and one of the organizers of the South Mountain Freeway Resistance. She explained the current plan to extend the Loop 202 freeway through a portion of South Mountain, referred to by the O'odham as Moahdak Do'ag, a site that is held sacred by the tribe, as well as the Gila River and Salt River Indian Communities. "This project looks to desecrate not only the mountain," said Jackson "But prayer sites and burial area... Part of the mural is going to represent that struggle going on right now in the Gila River Indian Community" Jackson explained that the project would only save Loop 202 commuters mere minutes at the cost of these holy sites being ruined. Members of the tribes are currently awaiting the results of their lawsuits against the proposal and there is currently a plan to establish an around the clock protest and occupation at the proposed sights.
Looks like things are moving forward:http://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2015/12/28/south-mountain-freeway-to-be-constructed-as-public-private-partnership (http://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2015/12/28/south-mountain-freeway-to-be-constructed-as-public-private-partnership)
QuoteThe Arizona Department of Transportation has selected a preferred developer for the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway, which remains on track for construction to begin in summer 2016 as the largest-ever highway project in the state.
Since the South Mountain Freeway will not be tolled, I presume the logo sign revenue for it will go to Connect 202 Partners, who will maintain the freeway for 30 years. This could be a good source of revenue for them without charging tolls.
I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.
Though on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.
Quote from: 707 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
Though on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.
Yep:http://www.azdot.gov/projects/phoenix-metro-area/loop-202-south-mountain-freeway/overview (http://www.azdot.gov/projects/phoenix-metro-area/loop-202-south-mountain-freeway/overview)
QuoteThe project has been a critical part of the Maricopa Association of Governments Regional Freeway Program since it was first included in funding through Proposition 300 approved by Maricopa County voters in 1985. The freeway is also part of the Regional Transportation Plan funding passed by Maricopa County voters in 2004 through Proposition 400.
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 03, 2015, 07:56:41 PM
Quote from: swbrotha100 on September 03, 2015, 03:41:06 PM
I-10 has an extra wide median in Phoenix from 91st Ave to the I-17 split (excluding where there are current HOV exit ramps). I know there were plans for various types of mass transit going west of downtown, but was anything ever planned going east of downtown? Or is the median extra wide simply because it was built later than other sections of I-10 in the Phoenix area?
I don't believe there is a plan to route the light rail through the median in the area around the split and the mini-stack. This valley metro map (http://www.valleymetro.org/metro_projects_planning) shows the proposed routes. The wide median starting at the split was probably for the purposes of HOV ramps. The HOV ramps from Loop 202 to I-10 were part of the original mini-stack in the early 90s, and the HOV exit for SR-51 was constructed around 2004.
Actually when I-10 was built in the early 90's west of downtown the wide median was created with the idea of a "future mass transit corridor". Back then the city had no plans for any light rail other than hope that it could come one day. In the late 90's when plans for the ballot proposition for the light rail, there were discussions of running it in the median going west as a possible route and it mentioned how the freeway was designed for it. if you look at the "tunnel" on I-10 you can see a hole was created with the idea a train could run through it. They did build the HOV exit at 79th Ave, but you can see how it could still work.
I am not aware of any plans for it going east of the tunnel along I-10 at all though.
Quote from: 707 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.
Though on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.
You are correct about the Proposition 400- the I-10 Phx-Tucson project falls under ADOT not the Maricopa County project. The hold up on this portion of the project has been the Gila River reservation. The community was promised frontage roads and more access points when they originally allowed the freeway to be built through the reservation and that never happened. They have the rights to allow or disallow widening on their land. You can see here they had begun to allow it in this old article- http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/queen_creek/article_e7bdedca-c0b7-5fc7-978a-d5a51e23c7d7.html
The hold up now is they still want the roads and interchanges making this project a lot more costly than it would normally be. That's why it widens again as soon as you get south of the reservation. I avoid driving this stretch when I can, the heavy truck traffic makes it feel dangerous.
Quote from: kdk on February 19, 2016, 05:56:06 PM
The hold up now is they still want the roads and interchanges making this project a lot more costly than it would normally be. That's why it widens again as soon as you get south of the reservation. I avoid driving this stretch when I can, the heavy truck traffic makes it feel dangerous.
I nearly always avoid this too and take 87 down to Picacho, right before it widens again.
What is the hold up on the section from Casa Grande/287 to Picacho? Just cost? I read an article from last year about ADOT balking at the price tag and pushing it back to 2020. Is that still the case? And why is this section so much more expensive? Just the extra interchanges and railroad crossing, or is there going to be some ROW acquisition needed to get it through Eloy?
Quote from: coatimundi on February 20, 2016, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: kdk on February 19, 2016, 05:56:06 PM
The hold up now is they still want the roads and interchanges making this project a lot more costly than it would normally be. That's why it widens again as soon as you get south of the reservation. I avoid driving this stretch when I can, the heavy truck traffic makes it feel dangerous.
I nearly always avoid this too and take 87 down to Picacho, right before it widens again.
What is the hold up on the section from Casa Grande/287 to Picacho? Just cost? I read an article from last year about ADOT balking at the price tag and pushing it back to 2020. Is that still the case? And why is this section so much more expensive? Just the extra interchanges and railroad crossing, or is there going to be some ROW acquisition needed to get it through Eloy?
I do this too sometimes, especially if it's a heavier traffic time.
It's cost- the section near Pichaco where the 87 interchange is due to the cost of some bridges. Here was the latest article I could find on it- http://tucson.com/news/local/adot-pushes-back-projects-to-widen-interstate/article_5adf19a7-acd1-5e7f-897a-b2b3e2e7ba47.html
South Mountain Freeway agreement delivers lower cost, shorter timeline
Construction to start this summer on largest highway project in state history
February 26, 2016
PHOENIX — The Arizona Department of Transportation will deliver the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway three years sooner and at a cost savings topping $100 million by taking an innovative approach to selecting the team to design, build and maintain the highway.
"This is another example of government working at the speed of business to save taxpayer money and improve the lives of Arizonans," said Governor Doug Ducey. "Thanks to hard work and collaboration, the South Mountain Freeway will be completed under budget and faster than expected."
The Department of Transportation finalized a public-private partnership Friday with the project team — Connect 202 Partners — that will serve in all three roles.
"This first-of-its-kind highway contract in Arizona has not only reduced the overall cost but allowed ADOT to accelerate the entire project, meaning motorists will be able to benefit from this critical freeway sooner," ADOT Director John Halikowski said. "That's especially important in light of transportation needs today and into the future."
The 22-mile freeway, expected to open by late 2019, will provide a long-planned direct link between the East Valley and West Valley and a much-needed alternative to Interstate 10 through downtown Phoenix. Approved twice by Maricopa County voters, the South Mountain Freeway will complete the Loop 202 and Loop 101 freeway system.
Connect 202 Partners will design and build the freeway corridor and provide maintenance for 30 years after construction. The team consists of Fluor Enterprises Inc., Granite Construction Co. and Ames Construction Inc., with Parsons Brinckerhoff Inc. as the lead designer.
The fixed $916 million contract for design and construction makes this the largest highway project in state history.
The amount required for the overall project is approximately $122 million less than anticipated because of innovative approaches Connect 202 Partners proposed for construction and engineering, as well as reducing the amount of property that must be acquired for the freeway.
While the phrase public-private partnership may evoke visions of a toll road, that isn't the case with the South Mountain Freeway. Instead, this agreement, ADOT's first for a highway project, provides the advantages of lower cost and shorter timeline that come from having one team not only design and build the freeway, but maintain it afterward.
The original plan called for construction of the freeway as nine individual projects. But after receiving an unsolicited proposal for a public-private partnership in 2013, ADOT decided to seek proposals using that approach.
Connect 202 Partners was selected as the "best value" developer in December 2015 following an extensive review that led to a final list of three prospective developer teams in March 2015. ADOT encouraged these teams to propose innovative concepts that would save time and money while adhering to all environmental commitments.
Innovations proposed by Connect 202 Partners include optimizing the design of the freeway to reduce the amount of right-of-way needed and improving efficiency by reducing the amount of earth needing to be hauled by trucks. The project will include construction of a 15-foot-wide multi-use trail along the existing Pecos Road alignment from 40th Street to 17th Avenue.
Even with the lower cost made possible by a public-private partnership agreement, motorists will enjoy the same modern amenities they have been accustomed to for decades, including a high-capacity freeway with four lanes of traffic in each direction including HOV lanes, rubberized asphalt, access-controlled interchanges and aesthetics that reflect the nearby communities.
The South Mountain Freeway, which will be paid for with state, federal and voter-approved regional transportation funding, has been a critical part of the region's transportation plans since voters approved the Maricopa Association of Governments' Regional Freeway Program in 1985. It also was part of the Regional Transportation Plan that Maricopa County voters approved in 2004.
"The award provides cost certainty on the largest transportation project in the Regional Transportation Plan," said Scottsdale Mayor W.J. "Jim" Lane, chair of the Maricopa Association of Governments. "We now know the range of savings we can put toward the rest of the freeway program."
Halikowski said support from the Maricopa Association of Governments, city of Phoenix and Federal Highway Administration has been essential to advancing the South Mountain Freeway.
Construction is scheduled to begin in summer 2016. Pre-construction activities, including geotechnical and utility work and property acquisition and preparation, have been underway since spring 2015 after ADOT received final federal clearance to move forward.
For more information, visit azdot.gov/SouthMountainFreeway.
I love how they talk about how they got the project done faster than scheduled and under budget when it isn't actually done yet!
Quote
access-controlled interchanges
Well,
lah-dee-dah, so fancy!
I'm a little surprised they're talking about an 8-lane freeway on this corridor with HOVs. Or is it 8 lanes including the HOVs? Even then, that seems like a bit overkill considering much of the corridor will never see development, with South Mountain Park and the GRIT on either side.
I wonder if Gila Bend will see a drop in traffic once this is completed, since most trucks (and even cars) take I-8 to 85 instead of slogging through Downtown Phoenix. Poor Space Age Lodge.
Quote from: coatimundi on March 02, 2016, 11:34:25 AM
Quote
access-controlled interchanges
Well, lah-dee-dah, so fancy!
I'm a little surprised they're talking about an 8-lane freeway on this corridor with HOVs. Or is it 8 lanes including the HOVs? Even then, that seems like a bit overkill considering much of the corridor will never see development, with South Mountain Park and the GRIT on either side.
I wonder if Gila Bend will see a drop in traffic once this is completed, since most trucks (and even cars) take I-8 to 85 instead of slogging through Downtown Phoenix. Poor Space Age Lodge.
It is 8 lanes including the HOV lanes.
3+1 HOV really isn't overkill if you consider the regional needs. What lies adjacent to just a few miles of the corridor is ultimately irrelevant.
Quote from: kdk on February 20, 2016, 09:06:54 PM
Quote from: coatimundi on February 20, 2016, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: kdk on February 19, 2016, 05:56:06 PM
The hold up now is they still want the roads and interchanges making this project a lot more costly than it would normally be. That's why it widens again as soon as you get south of the reservation. I avoid driving this stretch when I can, the heavy truck traffic makes it feel dangerous.
I nearly always avoid this too and take 87 down to Picacho, right before it widens again.
What is the hold up on the section from Casa Grande/287 to Picacho? Just cost? I read an article from last year about ADOT balking at the price tag and pushing it back to 2020. Is that still the case? And why is this section so much more expensive? Just the extra interchanges and railroad crossing, or is there going to be some ROW acquisition needed to get it through Eloy?
I do this too sometimes, especially if it's a heavier traffic time.
It's cost- the section near Pichaco where the 87 interchange is due to the cost of some bridges. Here was the latest article I could find on it- http://tucson.com/news/local/adot-pushes-back-projects-to-widen-interstate/article_5adf19a7-acd1-5e7f-897a-b2b3e2e7ba47.html
This "cheaping" out is clearly visible on the widened section of I-10 northwest of Casa Grande, where the alignment "shifts" to the inside to go under some pre - existing four span bridges. Demolition and replacement with two span, with greater vertical clearances would have been ideal. At least they widened to the outside, preserving the median, which reduces glare from traffic during the night time.
I hope they don't post any capitalist logo signs on it.
Quote from: NE2 on March 17, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
I hope they don't post any capitalist logo signs on it.
Do you
want to go to jail?
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on March 17, 2016, 01:11:33 AM
Quote from: NE2 on March 17, 2016, 12:44:24 AM
I hope they don't post any capitalist logo signs on it.
Do you want to go to jail?
Only if they don't invite me.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 17, 2016, 06:31:12 AM
Jail?
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16422.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16422.0)
And reply #16 of this thread
:spin:
Any timeline on when the construction on the interchange with I-10 will get underway? That looks like it's going to be a massive task to shove that interchange in there.
Quote from: Sonic99 on March 19, 2016, 06:06:12 PM
Any timeline on when the construction on the interchange with I-10 will get underway? That looks like it's going to be a massive task to shove that interchange in there.
I assume they'll start on it when they start on the rest of the freeway, since the project is supposed to be built all at once. I'm not sure how much demolition has occurred in that part of the right of way, if any.
I was planning on driving down there on Monday anyway, for the very reason of seeing how much demolition has happened. So I'll report what I see.
I imagine that the traffic situation is not going to be pretty around there during construction.
Quote from: Sonic99 on March 19, 2016, 06:06:12 PM
Any timeline on when the construction on the interchange with I-10 will get underway? That looks like it's going to be a massive task to shove that interchange in there.
Still the wrong location. Should go through Tolleson, by any means possible to directly link to "Loop 101".
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on March 19, 2016, 06:59:19 PM
Quote from: Sonic99 on March 19, 2016, 06:06:12 PM
Any timeline on when the construction on the interchange with I-10 will get underway? That looks like it's going to be a massive task to shove that interchange in there.
I assume they'll start on it when they start on the rest of the freeway, since the project is supposed to be built all at once. I'm not sure how much demolition has occurred in that part of the right of way, if any.
I was planning on driving down there on Monday anyway, for the very reason of seeing how much demolition has happened. So I'll report what I see.
I imagine that the traffic situation is not going to be pretty around there during construction.
Last time I was in the area of I-10 and 59th Ave, the houses closest to the freeway west of 59th Ave were being demolished. The businesses east of 59th Ave were still open and operating.
I've seen the flyover video, but are there any good drawings for what exactly the I-10 interchange is going to be like?
As far as construction goes, I almost think it will take just as long to build that one interchange as it will to build the entire rest of the freeway. They have to keep I-10 open the whole time so they are going to have to build bypasses, move the traffic to them, build the interchange while working around the moving traffic, move traffic back, then tear up the bypass, and build what goes where the bypass has to be first. It's definitely going to be one hell of a mess considering how far into the city this thing is. It's not like the 303 where that interchange was build in an empty field. They've got very little room to work inside there.
Quote from: 707 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.
Has the state already acquired the ROW for finishing 202? If not, that's a very good reason to move forward with the project sooner rather than later. Grab the land while it's still relatively empty, wait too long and it will at best get more expensive, at worst get developed and require taking structures (possibly killing the project outright).
QuoteThough on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.
I know this is how 303 is funded. Not sure about 202.
Quote from: Sonic99 on March 20, 2016, 05:26:40 PM
I've seen the flyover video, but are there any good drawings for what exactly the I-10 interchange is going to be like?
I think the right of way maps are the best thing there is for now. You might have already seen it, but here's the one for the interchange:http://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/smf_map20.pdf (http://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/smf_map20.pdf)
Quote from: Duke87 on March 20, 2016, 10:14:53 PM
Quote from: 707 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.
Has the state already acquired the ROW for finishing 202? If not, that's a very good reason to move forward with the project sooner rather than later. Grab the land while it's still relatively empty, wait too long and it will at best get more expensive, at worst get developed and require taking structures (possibly killing the project outright).
QuoteThough on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.
I know this is how 303 is funded. Not sure about 202.
Yeah, ROW has already been almost completely finished and one of the more controversial parts, the demolition of homes in the Ahwatukee section actually started last summer. Most ROW has been in place for years, it was the single family homes that weren't that old that was the big issue. I believe the last few parcels needed for ROW have been under contract but ADOT won't officially close on them until needed from what I understand. There was the fear of holdouts but I believe thats been settled.
Also, 202 is funded by Prop 400. It was originally in the first sales tax that was passed in the 1985 plan but when revenue fell short then, the South Mountain leg of the 202 was put on hold along with 303, and wasn't until Prop 400 passed that they could be put back on the table.
Quote from: kdk on March 21, 2016, 03:26:08 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 20, 2016, 10:14:53 PM
Quote from: 707 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.
Has the state already acquired the ROW for finishing 202? If not, that's a very good reason to move forward with the project sooner rather than later. Grab the land while it's still relatively empty, wait too long and it will at best get more expensive, at worst get developed and require taking structures (possibly killing the project outright).
QuoteThough on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.
I know this is how 303 is funded. Not sure about 202.
Yeah, ROW has already been almost completely finished and one of the more controversial parts, the demolition of homes in the Ahwatukee section actually started last summer. Most ROW has been in place for years, it was the single family homes that weren't that old that was the big issue. I believe the last few parcels needed for ROW have been under contract but ADOT won't officially close on them until needed from what I understand. There was the fear of holdouts but I believe thats been settled.
Also, 202 is funded by Prop 400. It was originally in the first sales tax that was passed in the 1985 plan but when revenue fell short then, the South Mountain leg of the 202 was put on hold along with 303, and wasn't until Prop 400 passed that they could be put back on the table.
The Paradise Freeway was another casualty of the funding shortfall, although that one had a LOT more issues than just simply funding in making it happen.
So what happens if Maricopa County runs out of money via Proposition 400? Won't that basically stop funding, considering the fact that this is one of the largest projects in the state?
Quote from: noelbotevera on March 22, 2016, 10:55:35 PM
So what happens if Maricopa County runs out of money via Proposition 400? Won't that basically stop funding, considering the fact that this is one of the largest projects in the state?
Not sure, but since the South Mountain Freeway is being built as a Design-Build-Maintain P3 project, it should be under budget.
Upon visiting the area of I-10 & 59th ave, there appears to have been no demolition aside from the houses adjacent to I-10 mentioned above.
The businesses are still up and running, from what I could tell.
Quote from: noelbotevera on March 22, 2016, 10:55:35 PM
So what happens if Maricopa County runs out of money via Proposition 400? Won't that basically stop funding, considering the fact that this is one of the largest projects in the state?
Yeah, like Pink Jazz said, the 202 has the funding and will come under. There have been times where these propositions have run out of money, not to the point where construction projects have stopped, but it has cut out future freeways. The 303 was an example too, It was part of the first funding tax passed in 1985 but when funding fell short of expectations the two lane road that served as the 303 at the time was transferred to Maricopa County for several years.
Looks like a hearing for the South Mountain Freeway will be on May 11. Hopefully God and the judge are on ADOT's side and the lawsuit backfires on PARC and GRIC. May should be a very interesting month for the future of the Phoenix area. If the judge rules in ADOT's favor it will be a major victory for ADOT as well as the Phoenix metro area as a whole.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2016, 02:31:08 PM
...and the lawsuit backfires on PARC and GRIC.
In what way would it backfire? Wouldn't they just lose the case?
Let us know how the public hearing and the lawsuit turn out.
Quote from: jakeroot on April 30, 2016, 03:41:54 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2016, 02:31:08 PM
...and the lawsuit backfires on PARC and GRIC.
In what way would it backfire? Wouldn't they just lose the case?
They'd be forced to wear pink.
ADOT and the FHWA have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on April 25:
http://ktar.com/story/1054397/adot-feds-file-to-dismiss-lawsuits-challenging-south-mountain-freeway/
Hopefully they come out victorious after the hearing on May 11. Still, even if they do win, PARC has stated that they plan to try to appeal the ruling.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 07:27:38 PM
ADOT and the FHWA have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on April 25:
http://ktar.com/story/1054397/adot-feds-file-to-dismiss-lawsuits-challenging-south-mountain-freeway/
Hopefully they come out victorious after the hearing on May 11. Still, even if they do win, PARC has stated that they plan to try to appeal the ruling.
What happens if AZDOT/FHWA lose the lawsuit?
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2016, 07:29:10 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 07:27:38 PM
ADOT and the FHWA have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on April 25:
http://ktar.com/story/1054397/adot-feds-file-to-dismiss-lawsuits-challenging-south-mountain-freeway/
Hopefully they come out victorious after the hearing on May 11. Still, even if they do win, PARC has stated that they plan to try to appeal the ruling.
What happens if AZDOT/FHWA lose the lawsuit?
My guess is that the freeway would not be built and the owners of the homes that have already had their homes demolished would get a lot more money.
If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 10:06:19 PM
If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.
I think that's a little insensitive. After all, there are hundreds of people being displaced by this project. And there's no denying the obvious environmental impacts, no matter how insignificant.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2016, 10:29:59 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 10:06:19 PM
If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.
I think that's a little insensitive. After all, there are hundreds of people being displaced by this project. And there's no denying the obvious environmental impacts, no matter how insignificant.
I remember when I lived in the Albuquerque area that the city placed a portable dynamic message sign by the Montano Bridge after the bridge was restriped to four lanes with a message "HOORAY FOR ABQ" despite opposition by residents in the area. I don't see how this would be any different.
Here is a potential victory message:
SOUTH MTN FWY
VICTORY FOR
ARIZONA
The message should emphasize that any such victory is a victory for Arizona and not just for ADOT.
^ Still, those kind of messages are not necessary at all. That's just bragging and rubbing it in for no real purpose other than to brag, and would have the effect of being insensitive and/or deteriorating public relations to a certain extent.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 11:15:28 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2016, 10:29:59 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 10:06:19 PM
If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.
I think that's a little insensitive. After all, there are hundreds of people being displaced by this project. And there's no denying the obvious environmental impacts, no matter how insignificant.
I remember when I lived in the Albuquerque area that the city placed a portable dynamic message sign by the Montano Bridge after the bridge was restriped to four lanes with a message "HOORAY FOR ABQ" despite opposition by residents in the area. I don't see how this would be any different.
Here is a potential victory message:
SOUTH MTN FWY
VICTORY FOR
ARIZONA
The message should emphasize that any such victory is a victory for Arizona and not just for ADOT.
It wasn't right in the first place. "NEW TRAFFIC PATTERN AHEAD" would've been the appropriate message.
Whether the construction of the South Mountain Freeway is a victory for Arizona is subject to interpretation.
It seems kind of arrogant to call it a victory for Arizona. The anti-202 side are as much part of Arizona as the pro-202s. Anyone who cares about the issue knows how it came out. VMS should be saved for traffic announcements, not gloating or preaching.
No gloating or preaching. Just get this project started already.
Quote from: swbrotha100 on May 04, 2016, 06:45:09 PM
No gloating or preaching. Just get this project started already.
Amen. I was born in the same year and month as the original freeway plan, which included the South Mountain Freeway, was passed by the voters. And judging by the lack of hair on my head (not voluntary), I'd say it's about damn time it got built.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 10:06:19 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2016, 07:29:10 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 03, 2016, 07:27:38 PM
ADOT and the FHWA have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on April 25:
http://ktar.com/story/1054397/adot-feds-file-to-dismiss-lawsuits-challenging-south-mountain-freeway/
Hopefully they come out victorious after the hearing on May 11. Still, even if they do win, PARC has stated that they plan to try to appeal the ruling.
What happens if AZDOT/FHWA lose the lawsuit?
My guess is that the freeway would not be built and the owners of the homes that have already had their homes demolished would get a lot more money.
If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.
No, it would not be cool to use informational VMS's for political purposes. That's why we have press releases.
I just found out that even though the hearing will be today, the final ruling will actually be a few weeks from now. Let's hope that the judge rules in favor of ADOT and that she doesn't let her Native American heritage get in the way (that would be a major conflict of interest).
She's going to rule against it because she hates pink.
FYI, the final ruling is expected to be made by July 13 (probably a few days before). Hopefully the judge is wise enough to rule in ADOT's favor and God is on ADOT's side.