FHWA approves Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway

[swbrotha100]

Any timeline on when the construction on the interchange with I-10 will get underway? That looks like it's going to be a massive task to shove that interchange in there.

I assume they'll start on it when they start on the rest of the freeway, since the project is supposed to be built all at once.  I'm not sure how much demolition has occurred in that part of the right of way, if any.
I was planning on driving down there on Monday anyway, for the very reason of seeing how much demolition has happened. So I'll report what I see.
I imagine that the traffic situation is not going to be pretty around there during construction.

Last time I was in the area of I-10 and 59th Ave, the houses closest to the freeway west of 59th Ave were being demolished. The businesses east of 59th Ave were still open and operating.

[Sonic99]

I've seen the flyover video, but are there any good drawings for what exactly the I-10 interchange is going to be like?

As far as construction goes, I almost think it will take just as long to build that one interchange as it will to build the entire rest of the freeway. They have to keep I-10 open the whole time so they are going to have to build bypasses, move the traffic to them, build the interchange while working around the moving traffic, move traffic back, then tear up the bypass, and build what goes where the bypass has to be first. It's definitely going to be one hell of a mess considering how far into the city this thing is. It's not like the 303 where that interchange was build in an empty field. They've got very little room to work inside there.

[Duke87]

I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.

Has the state already acquired the ROW for finishing 202? If not, that's a very good reason to move forward with the project sooner rather than later. Grab the land while it's still relatively empty, wait too long and it will at best get more expensive, at worst get developed and require taking structures (possibly killing the project outright).

Though on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.

I know this is how 303 is funded. Not sure about 202.

[pumpkineater2]

I've seen the flyover video, but are there any good drawings for what exactly the I-10 interchange is going to be like?

I think the right of way maps are the best thing there is for now. You might have already seen it, but here's the one for the interchange:http://www.azdot.gov/docs/default-source/loop-202-south-mountain/smf_map20.pdf

[kdk]

I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.

Has the state already acquired the ROW for finishing 202? If not, that's a very good reason to move forward with the project sooner rather than later. Grab the land while it's still relatively empty, wait too long and it will at best get more expensive, at worst get developed and require taking structures (possibly killing the project outright).

Though on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.

I know this is how 303 is funded. Not sure about 202.

Yeah, ROW has already been almost completely finished and one of the more controversial parts, the demolition of homes in the Ahwatukee section actually started last summer.  Most ROW has been in place for years, it was the single family homes that weren't that old that was the big issue.  I believe the last few parcels needed for ROW have been under contract but ADOT won't officially close on them until needed from what I understand.  There was the fear of holdouts but I believe thats been settled.
Also, 202 is funded by Prop 400.  It was originally in the first sales tax that was passed in the 1985 plan but when revenue fell short then, the South Mountain leg of the 202 was put on hold along with 303, and wasn't until Prop 400 passed that they could be put back on the table.

[Sonic99]

I find it funny they're putting the South Mountain Freeway as a priority over... Oh I don't know, I-10 between existing 202 and Casa Grande (especially the SR 587 interchange which is a NIGHTMARE) or finishing the darned widening of US 93 before more people crash into each other.

Has the state already acquired the ROW for finishing 202? If not, that's a very good reason to move forward with the project sooner rather than later. Grab the land while it's still relatively empty, wait too long and it will at best get more expensive, at worst get developed and require taking structures (possibly killing the project outright).

Though on the other hand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the projects in Phoenix are mostly paid for by Maricopa County through Proposition 400 which doesn't apply to other counties outside it, so it would make more sense.

I know this is how 303 is funded. Not sure about 202.

Yeah, ROW has already been almost completely finished and one of the more controversial parts, the demolition of homes in the Ahwatukee section actually started last summer.  Most ROW has been in place for years, it was the single family homes that weren't that old that was the big issue.  I believe the last few parcels needed for ROW have been under contract but ADOT won't officially close on them until needed from what I understand.  There was the fear of holdouts but I believe thats been settled.
Also, 202 is funded by Prop 400.  It was originally in the first sales tax that was passed in the 1985 plan but when revenue fell short then, the South Mountain leg of the 202 was put on hold along with 303, and wasn't until Prop 400 passed that they could be put back on the table.

The Paradise Freeway was another casualty of the funding shortfall, although that one had a LOT more issues than just simply funding in making it happen.

[noelbotevera]

So what happens if Maricopa County runs out of money via Proposition 400? Won't that basically stop funding, considering the fact that this is one of the largest projects in the state?

[Pink Jazz]

So what happens if Maricopa County runs out of money via Proposition 400? Won't that basically stop funding, considering the fact that this is one of the largest projects in the state?

Not sure, but since the South Mountain Freeway is being built as a Design-Build-Maintain P3 project, it should be under budget.

[pumpkineater2]

Upon visiting the area of I-10 & 59th ave, there appears to have been no demolition aside from the houses adjacent to I-10 mentioned above.
The businesses are still up and running, from what I could tell.

[kdk]

So what happens if Maricopa County runs out of money via Proposition 400? Won't that basically stop funding, considering the fact that this is one of the largest projects in the state?

Yeah, like Pink Jazz said, the 202 has the funding and will come under.  There have been times where these propositions have run out of money, not to the point where construction projects have stopped, but it has cut out future freeways.  The 303 was an example too, It was part of the first funding tax passed in 1985 but when funding fell short of expectations the two lane road that served as the 303 at the time was transferred to Maricopa County for several years.

[Pink Jazz]

Looks like a hearing for the South Mountain Freeway will be on May 11.  Hopefully God and the judge are on ADOT's side and the lawsuit backfires on PARC and GRIC.  May should be a very interesting month for the future of the Phoenix area.  If the judge rules in ADOT's favor it will be a major victory for ADOT as well as the Phoenix metro area as a whole.

[jakeroot]

...and the lawsuit backfires on PARC and GRIC.

In what way would it backfire? Wouldn't they just lose the case?

[The Ghostbuster]

Let us know how the public hearing and the lawsuit turn out.

[NE2]

...and the lawsuit backfires on PARC and GRIC.

In what way would it backfire? Wouldn't they just lose the case?

They'd be forced to wear pink.

[Pink Jazz]

ADOT and the FHWA have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on April 25:
http://ktar.com/story/1054397/adot-feds-file-to-dismiss-lawsuits-challenging-south-mountain-freeway/

Hopefully they come out victorious after the hearing on May 11. Still, even if they do win, PARC has stated that they plan to try to appeal the ruling.

[jakeroot]

ADOT and the FHWA have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on April 25:
http://ktar.com/story/1054397/adot-feds-file-to-dismiss-lawsuits-challenging-south-mountain-freeway/

Hopefully they come out victorious after the hearing on May 11. Still, even if they do win, PARC has stated that they plan to try to appeal the ruling.

What happens if AZDOT/FHWA lose the lawsuit?

[Pink Jazz]

ADOT and the FHWA have filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on April 25:
http://ktar.com/story/1054397/adot-feds-file-to-dismiss-lawsuits-challenging-south-mountain-freeway/

Hopefully they come out victorious after the hearing on May 11. Still, even if they do win, PARC has stated that they plan to try to appeal the ruling.

What happens if AZDOT/FHWA lose the lawsuit?

My guess is that the freeway would not be built and the owners of the homes that have already had their homes demolished would get a lot more money.

If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.

[jakeroot]

If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.

I think that's a little insensitive. After all, there are hundreds of people being displaced by this project. And there's no denying the obvious environmental impacts, no matter how insignificant.

[Pink Jazz]

If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.

I think that's a little insensitive. After all, there are hundreds of people being displaced by this project. And there's no denying the obvious environmental impacts, no matter how insignificant.

I remember when I lived in the Albuquerque area that the city placed a portable dynamic message sign by the Montano Bridge after the bridge was restriped to four lanes with a message "HOORAY FOR ABQ" despite opposition by residents in the area.  I don't see how this would be any different.

Here is a potential victory message:

Code Select Expand

SOUTH MTN FWY
VICTORY FOR
ARIZONA

The message should emphasize that any such victory is a victory for Arizona and not just for ADOT.

[roadfro]

^ Still, those kind of messages are not necessary at all. That's just bragging and rubbing it in for no real purpose other than to brag, and would have the effect of being insensitive and/or deteriorating public relations to a certain extent.

[jeffandnicole]

If ADOT comes out victorious, it would be cool to celebrate by posting a victory message on dynamic message signs statewide.

I think that's a little insensitive. After all, there are hundreds of people being displaced by this project. And there's no denying the obvious environmental impacts, no matter how insignificant.

I remember when I lived in the Albuquerque area that the city placed a portable dynamic message sign by the Montano Bridge after the bridge was restriped to four lanes with a message "HOORAY FOR ABQ" despite opposition by residents in the area.  I don't see how this would be any different.

Here is a potential victory message:

Code Select Expand

SOUTH MTN FWY
VICTORY FOR
ARIZONA

The message should emphasize that any such victory is a victory for Arizona and not just for ADOT.

It wasn't right in the first place.  "NEW TRAFFIC PATTERN AHEAD" would've been the appropriate message.

[The Ghostbuster]

Whether the construction of the South Mountain Freeway is a victory for Arizona is subject to interpretation.

[kkt]

It seems kind of arrogant to call it a victory for Arizona.  The anti-202 side are as much part of Arizona as the pro-202s.  Anyone who cares about the issue knows how it came out.  VMS should be saved for traffic announcements, not gloating or preaching.

[swbrotha100]

No gloating or preaching. Just get this project started already.

[Sonic99]

No gloating or preaching. Just get this project started already.

Amen. I was born in the same year and month as the original freeway plan, which included the South Mountain Freeway, was passed by the voters. And judging by the lack of hair on my head (not voluntary), I'd say it's about damn time it got built.