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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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PAHighways

Quote from: empirestate on May 31, 2012, 02:11:37 PMAs for pre-Interstate days, I'm sure it was as good a way across as anything else, but that's relative to the fact that one didn't just cross entire states in a matter of hours then.

In the pre-Turnpike days, some truckers would use it to cross the state because it didn't have the steep grades of US 22 and 30.


Alps

I-80 was at one point considered to follow the US 6 corridor instead of its current combination of nothing and US 322. That would have a) resulted in NY 17's continued existence across all of NY, as opposed to the advent of I-86, and b) resulted in US 6 being a pleasant drive with only local traffic using it. Instead, US 6 is a through highway located just far enough between two Interstates that it's not adequately served by either one.

Beltway

#27
Quote from: Steve on June 01, 2012, 07:24:37 PM
I-80 was at one point considered to follow the US 6 corridor instead of its current combination of nothing and US 322. That would have a) resulted in NY 17's continued existence across all of NY, as opposed to the advent of I-86, and b) resulted in US 6 being a pleasant drive with only local traffic using it. Instead, US 6 is a through highway located just far enough between two Interstates that it's not adequately served by either one.

I-80 follows the "Keystone Shortway" route which cut about 100 miles off of the pre-existing all-turnpike route between New York City and Youngstown OH and west.

The US-6 route would have been at least 50 miles longer than the route chosen.

Segments of US-6 can be upgraded to 4-lane divided where needed.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

mightyace

Despite growing up in PA, I've never been on more than  about 50-60 miles of it in the state!

Of course, I-80 was complete by the time I could remember road trips and my parent's house is less than 2 miles from the I-80/US 11 interchange.

I did once, back in 2006, take the stretch from the end of freeway to a few miles east of Honesdale.  That part is typical rural, mountain 2 lane in PA.  Very scenic, not necessarily good for making time.
My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace

I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

Alps

Which segments of US 6 can be upgraded? Even where it bypasses towns, it remains a 2-lane with at-grade intersections. I don't trust PennDOT to do anything right. And I'm not complaining about I-80 where it is - I'm just stating history.

qguy

Quote from: mightyace on June 01, 2012, 11:47:03 PM
...the stretch from the end of freeway to a few miles east of Honesdale.  That part is typical rural, mountain 2 lane in PA.  Very scenic, not necessarily good for making time.

That's where I grew up. From where I currently live in Philadelphia I often travel to Honesdale to visit friends. I love the stretch from Carbondale to Honesdale. Definitely scenic. Definitely not good for making time!

roadman65

Here is something I ran across while surfing.  Something that many of us may find interesting.  Maybe someone else posted this someplace on this forum already, but I figure that I will do it just in case.  It refers to relief in the congestion along US 22 in Allentown.
http://www.22lv.com/
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Beltway

Quote from: Steve on June 02, 2012, 04:11:38 AM
Which segments of US 6 can be upgraded? Even where it bypasses towns, it remains a 2-lane with at-grade intersections. I don't trust PennDOT to do anything right. And I'm not complaining about I-80 where it is - I'm just stating history.

Upgrade US-6 wherever may be needed.  No need to bewail the fact that I-80 did not follow that corridor.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

roadman65

So basically, from everything said here is that it is more of a road than a highway.  Just like many roads in Vermont, where it takes a while just to drive a mile.  However, it sounds like a good scenic road, but much longer than even US 22 or US 30 is to cross the 300 plus miles.

It sounds like something I would try sometime, but only if I have an extra day.  When my dad traveled it back in his day, the PA Turnpike was the only cross state freeway then.  I-80 had no preceding US route in its path, so once you got to the end of US 46, you had to got north on the defunct US 611 to Scranton and go west on US 6 to reach Ohio. If not, you could pay the tolls on PA Turnpike (and before 1956 you had to go miles to the south to  pick it up) or use US 22.  In those days it was acceptable to reach Chicago from NYC in over two days.  Being from Florida where most two lane US routes can almost match the time of the nearby interstates compared to the North-East two lane roads.  Most FL rural roads are two 12 feet wide lanes, straight, and mostly flat surfaced, so using US 90 over I-10 across the northern part of the state would only result in a few hours more rather than a half a day longer.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Alps

#34
http://ruins.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/scranton_easton.jpg

Anyone know if this is still in Philly? Google still has it! Bristol WB at Broad

UPDATE: Yes, indeedy, very much still there, and with reflective cats'-eyes!

Alps

Another neat find: Going through my photos, a small hillside development off US 209 north of I-80, Green Mountain Rd., crosses what by all appearances is an old stone bridge.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=41.016489,-75.129833&spn=0.000847,0.001668&t=k&z=20

Thanks to Historic Aerials, I've figured out that this was actually the original US 209 Marshall's Creek crossing. Of course, early bridges crossed water at 90 degrees instead of on a slant. It curved here and then went around the back of the hotel property to the south before rejoining its current alignment. Because Green Mountain Rd. was aligned to curve onto the old bridge, this is the last trace of the original route.

NE2

#36
Actually it was never US 209 - that was moved directly from US 209 Business to the current bypass in the 1960s. It was, however, part of PA 402 until the new bridge was built in 1930.

Supposedly the stone bridge dates back only to 1910: http://bridgehunter.com/pa/monroe/457213053900020/

It appears that the original Seven Bridges Road went from Marshalls Creek (the community on US 209) to Paper Mill Road (original US 611) north of Delaware Water Gap. From south to north, the seven bridges are (all but the first over Marshall Creek):
*removed over Brodhead Creek
*1912 stone
*1932 replacement on Gap View Drive
*1910 stone (bypassed 1930)
*1990 replacement on County Bridge Road
*possible old stone bridge on private driveway north from County Bridge Road
*probably removed, just north of the latter

The old alignment past the last two bridges can be seen on a 1943 topo (but, strangely, neither the 1910 bridge you saw nor the one on County Bridge Road are shown).
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Alps

Quote from: NE2 on September 14, 2013, 06:02:21 AM
Actually it was never US 209 - that was moved directly from US 209 Business to the current bypass in the 1960s. It was, however, part of PA 402 until the new bridge was built in 1930.

Supposedly the stone bridge dates back only to 1910: http://bridgehunter.com/pa/monroe/457213053900020/

It appears that the original Seven Bridges Road went from Marshalls Creek (the community on US 209) to Paper Mill Road (original US 611) north of Delaware Water Gap. From south to north, the seven bridges are (all but the first over Marshall Creek):
*removed over Brodhead Creek
*1912 stone
*1932 replacement on Gap View Drive
*1910 stone (bypassed 1930)
*1990 replacement on County Bridge Road
*possible old stone bridge on private driveway north from County Bridge Road
*probably removed, just north of the latter

The old alignment past the last two bridges can be seen on a 1943 topo (but, strangely, neither the 1910 bridge you saw nor the one on County Bridge Road are shown).
Yeah, as I continued captioning I figured out what I was looking at better. So now that I know the date was 1930, adding it to the file.

jeffandnicole

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20131011_ap_884ec8b314e04a05b1b21a369b29fb01.html

QuoteA leading Pennsylvania state senator says it's time to increase the state's maximum allowable speed limit from 65 mph to 70 mph.

Senate President Pro Tempore Joe Scarnati said Friday he will introduce legislation soon to allow the higher maximum speeds on interstates.

Somewhat related - is there any northeast state at this point where someone hasn't at least mentioned the idea of going to 70 mph or above?  I can't recall hearing from Delaware, but in every other state, at least one pol has at least talked about raising the 65 mph limit to 70 or 75.

PHLBOS

#39
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 11, 2013, 12:01:39 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20131011_ap_884ec8b314e04a05b1b21a369b29fb01.html

QuoteA leading Pennsylvania state senator says it's time to increase the state's maximum allowable speed limit from 65 mph to 70 mph.

Senate President Pro Tempore Joe Scarnati said Friday he will introduce legislation soon to allow the higher maximum speeds on interstates.

Somewhat related - is there any northeast state at this point where someone hasn't at least mentioned the idea of going to 70 mph or above?  I can't recall hearing from Delaware, but in every other state, at least one pol has at least talked about raising the 65 mph limit to 70 or 75.

Assuming that Gov. Corbett is supportive of the above and is up for re-election next year; this could be used as a campaign issue.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

vdeane

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 11, 2013, 12:01:39 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20131011_ap_884ec8b314e04a05b1b21a369b29fb01.html

QuoteA leading Pennsylvania state senator says it's time to increase the state's maximum allowable speed limit from 65 mph to 70 mph.

Senate President Pro Tempore Joe Scarnati said Friday he will introduce legislation soon to allow the higher maximum speeds on interstates.

Somewhat related - is there any northeast state at this point where someone hasn't at least mentioned the idea of going to 70 mph or above?  I can't recall hearing from Delaware, but in every other state, at least one pol has at least talked about raising the 65 mph limit to 70 or 75.
New York, to the best of my knowledge.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Snappyjack

Quote from: vdeane on October 11, 2013, 08:00:29 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 11, 2013, 12:01:39 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20131011_ap_884ec8b314e04a05b1b21a369b29fb01.html

QuoteA leading Pennsylvania state senator says it's time to increase the state's maximum allowable speed limit from 65 mph to 70 mph.

Senate President Pro Tempore Joe Scarnati said Friday he will introduce legislation soon to allow the higher maximum speeds on interstates.

Somewhat related - is there any northeast state at this point where someone hasn't at least mentioned the idea of going to 70 mph or above?  I can't recall hearing from Delaware, but in every other state, at least one pol has at least talked about raising the 65 mph limit to 70 or 75.
New York, to the best of my knowledge.

Actually, a bill was recently announced to raise the speed limit to 75 in New York. Here's the details: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/01/new-york-may-raise-maximum-speed-limit-75-mph/

I doubt it has any chance in hell of passing.

cpzilliacus

Philly.com: Roadblock: PA House votes down transportation spending measure

QuoteHARRISBURG - After months of debate, the state House failed to pass legislation Monday night that would have provided $2.3 billion to complete long-overdue repairs to the state's aging transportation infrastructure.

QuoteIn a stunning 103-98 vote that teetered between passage and defeat until the last moment of the roll call, lawmakers shot down an amendment to fix thousands of substandard bridges, repave hundreds of miles of crumbling roads, and pump hundreds of millions into modernizing mass transit systems across the state.

QuoteTo pay for the improvements, the bill would have lifted the cap on the oil-franchise tax - which could increase prices at the gas pump by roughly 27 cents a gallon. The measure also would have increased driver's-license and vehicle-registration fees beginning in 2015, and put a surcharge on speeders and others who violate traffic laws.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

vdeane

Quote from: Snappyjack on November 19, 2013, 12:48:56 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 11, 2013, 08:00:29 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 11, 2013, 12:01:39 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20131011_ap_884ec8b314e04a05b1b21a369b29fb01.html

QuoteA leading Pennsylvania state senator says it's time to increase the state's maximum allowable speed limit from 65 mph to 70 mph.

Senate President Pro Tempore Joe Scarnati said Friday he will introduce legislation soon to allow the higher maximum speeds on interstates.

Somewhat related - is there any northeast state at this point where someone hasn't at least mentioned the idea of going to 70 mph or above?  I can't recall hearing from Delaware, but in every other state, at least one pol has at least talked about raising the 65 mph limit to 70 or 75.
New York, to the best of my knowledge.

Actually, a bill was recently announced to raise the speed limit to 75 in New York. Here's the details: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/01/new-york-may-raise-maximum-speed-limit-75-mph/

I doubt it has any chance in hell of passing.
Said bill was proposed after I made that post.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

oscar

Quote from: Flyer78 on November 19, 2013, 12:21:00 PM
Kelly Drive, in Philly; new signs are up warning speeders that a signal ahead will change. Will be interesting to see if there is any positive effect, or as some of the comments indicate; cars already speeding will speed-up to try to beat the cycle.

My home county in Virginia tried that, on a downhill section of Wilson Blvd. where people had trouble sticking to the 30mph limit.  For whatever reason, the county gave up on that silly idea.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
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Snappyjack

I need to learn to read dates. Sorry, vdeane!

froggie

QuoteSomewhat related - is there any northeast state at this point where someone hasn't at least mentioned the idea of going to 70 mph or above?  I can't recall hearing from Delaware, but in every other state, at least one pol has at least talked about raising the 65 mph limit to 70 or 75.

Vermont.

roadman65

#47
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Camp+Hill,+PA&hl=en&ll=40.273403,-77.011242&spn=0.01444,0.027595&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=7.407541,11.645508&oq=camp+h&t=h&hnear=Camp+Hill,+Cumberland,+Pennsylvania&z=15&layer=c&cbll=40.273376,-77.011481&panoid=prl4OHwU9fJ3shXngD4_1g&cbp=12,87.49,,0,0

I was noticing this assembly along NB I-81 that struck me odd.  It has the pull through sign for I-81 Northbound for Harrisburg instead of considering PA 581 for it.  PA 581 is actually the best route into the city itself.  In addition the control city on US 11/15 in Enola is the same where Harrisburg is located several miles to the South-East of that particular interchange better served by the Walnut Street Bridge from Wormleysburg, yet the control city for this ramp to I-81 NB is also signed "Harrisburg."

I have noticed this in many places in PA where the directional controls are not the best or direct way to the place.  In Oxford Valley at the US 1/ I-95 interchange, you have "Trenton, NJ" or "Trenton" signed via I-95 instead of US 1 as well where US 1 is the route (all freeway as well) into New Jersey's capital.  I-95 does not come near the city center or even the city limits of Trenton.  Then at I-476's northern terminus at Clarks Summit you have guide signs to Scranton signed via US 11 and not I-81. I-81 is the direct route (and all freeway) into Scranton.  Instead it has  the next SB I-81 city already signed for Wilkes- Barre where the first Scranton exit has not been reached. The first exit is actually for US 11 after it becomes a freeway where the arterial section of US 11 would be bypassed as well as some traffic lights. In actuality this one here being  sort of the opposite of this depicted in the above photo.

Does anyone in PennDOT seem to be oriented into locations of places that they sign?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

briantroutman

Quote from: roadman65 on November 21, 2013, 08:14:26 PM
I was noticing this assembly along NB I-81 that struck me odd.  It has the pull through sign for I-81 Northbound for Harrisburg instead of considering PA 581 for it.

Both routes do pass through the city limits, and either may be more appropriate depending on your specific destination–evena destination close to the center of the city. If PennDOT was being consistent, they would mirror the setup they have on southbound I-81 at I-83. There, they list I-83 South as "South Harrisburg" and I-81 South as "North Harrisburg".

As to the others, I can think of reasons that the control cities might have been signed that way, even if the result is less than logical. In the case of US 1 and I-95 in Trenton, I would have to guess that signing "Trenton" on 95 results from the tendency to prefer the Interstate route for interstate city-to-city travel, even through I-95 doesn't really serve the "city" itself, but the metro. I don't know if any now-cancelled freeway plans in NJ would have made I-95 a better choice.

At Clarks Summit, I'd imagine that "Scranton" is signed on US 11 because the first and primary exit from I-81 is to US 11 anyway. And perhaps its a side effect of needing to sign a destination for US 11 (after all, what else would sign as a control for southbound US 11) and not being able to duplicate cities between the signs.

NE2

Trenton via I-95 (specifically signed on US 1 north) is probably due to the US 1 freeway not being finished east of Oxford Valley Road until the 1980s. NJ 29 is almost freeway all the way from I-95 to downtown, so it was probably a better route in those days.

Interestingly at the PA 332 interchange most signs say Princeton but one has Trenton (and from there I-95 north to NJ 29 is the shorter way to Trenton). I can't tell which are older on the Goog. On Taylorsville Road are Clearview and older Trenton signs (at that interchange I-95 north is the clear winner).

Then once you get into NJ (and Trenton is signed off the NJ 29 exit) the control city is very inconsistent. I see signs for New York, Camden, TO US 1, and TO I-295 south. Once you get on I-95, New York doesn't appear, at least on the primary signs, at either of the two logical exits (US 1 is New Brunswick and I-195 has nothing).

Personally I'd use Princeton (with Trenton also signed at the PA 332 and Taylorsville Road interchanges), and then change signs on I-95 to have Princeton traffic get off at US 1 rather than US 206. I-95 around Trenton is a beltway and should be signed like one, with the control city of the next major radial.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



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