With an accident in Metro NYC where a charter bus crashed into a low clearance bridge on a parkway...what's the best way to sign for this?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4262/35785207296_54600facc9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WwdxoG)
Common phrases used are:
"NO Trucks"
"Passenger Cars Only"
"No Commercial Vehicles"
Should they add "Low overpasses" to it to give some kind of reason?
Perhaps a large, gantry-mounted warning sign stating that any overheight truck must exit? Warning signs prior to it, as well, such as "ALL TRUCKS EXIT IN x MILES, so that truckers have time to prepare to exit. If it's particularly hazardous, add beacons or something.
I've seen at least one place (I seem to think I remember another) where lights will flash warning that a truck must take a certain upcoming exit, but only when a truck over a certain height is detected. The sign says something like "Trucks take XX exit when flashing." I don't know what technology is used, and I don't remember exactly where it is. It's somewhere in Texas on I-30. The obvious weakness is the risk of equipment failure, but this is supplemental to a regular sign showing the height limit, so it's an enhancement over the minimum need.
Quote from: wxfree on April 16, 2018, 04:25:57 PM
I've seen at least one place (I seem to think I remember another) where lights will flash warning that a truck must take a certain upcoming exit, but only when a truck over a certain height is detected. The sign says something like "Trucks take XX exit when flashing." I don't know what technology is used, and I don't remember exactly where it is. It's somewhere in Texas on I-30. The obvious weakness is the risk of equipment failure, but this is supplemental to a regular sign showing the height limit, so it's an enhancement over the minimum need.
This still doesn't work. The Hutchinson River Parkway in NYC has a similar electronic sign system before the Westchester Av bridge in addition to every other possible static truck prohibition sign (trucks are banned on the road entirely), and trucks still constantly hit the bridge. Some drivers are completely ignorant to all signs around them; they just don't read. You can't fix that.
Suspend a rubber ball from the overhead sign. If a vehicle hits the rubber ball, it lights up a "YOUR VEHICLE IS OVERHEIGHT, TAKE NEXT EXIT" sign which is followed by directions to an alternate route.
Are they allowed to actually lie on a BGS?
Post a very low weight limit like 4000 pounds.
:-D
If they're too dense to see a limited height sign, they're too dense to see a weight limit sign.
Quote from: kkt on April 16, 2018, 06:11:43 PM
Suspend a rubber ball from the overhead sign. If a vehicle hits the rubber ball, it lights up a "YOUR VEHICLE IS OVERHEIGHT, TAKE NEXT EXIT" sign which is followed by directions to an alternate route.
I have seen electric eyes used to do that.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 16, 2018, 05:20:31 PM
Quote from: wxfree on April 16, 2018, 04:25:57 PM
I've seen at least one place (I seem to think I remember another) where lights will flash warning that a truck must take a certain upcoming exit, but only when a truck over a certain height is detected. The sign says something like "Trucks take XX exit when flashing." I don't know what technology is used, and I don't remember exactly where it is. It's somewhere in Texas on I-30. The obvious weakness is the risk of equipment failure, but this is supplemental to a regular sign showing the height limit, so it's an enhancement over the minimum need.
This still doesn't work. The Hutchinson River Parkway in NYC has a similar electronic sign system before the Westchester Av bridge in addition to every other possible static truck prohibition sign (trucks are banned on the road entirely), and trucks still constantly hit the bridge. Some drivers are completely ignorant to all signs around them; they just don't read. You can't fix that.
Likely their GPS told them to take that route.
Quote from: Jardine on April 16, 2018, 06:56:44 PM
Are they allowed to actually lie on a BGS?
Post a very low weight limit like 4000 pounds.
:-D
NY does this with clearances. "Legal clearance" (the posted clearance) is always, at minimum, a foot lower than the actual height of the bridge. Truckers know this and the effect is that standard clearance signs are completely meaningless.
The BQE, for example, has several posted 12'-2" clearance signs and tells trucks over 12'-2" to detour on Atlantic Avenue (because apparently NYC
wants more truck traffic on local streets with pedestrians), but a 13'6" trailer can actually just squeak through the length of the expressway. This has necessitated the installation of "ACTUAL CLEARANCE" signs for bridges under 13'-6", which indeed display the
actual clearance.
On the Hutchinson River Parkway where I was describing the sign, the road prior to Westchester Av, Tremont Av, has an actual clearance of around 14', but is signed for 10'-6". So when truckers see the next 10'-2" sign, they figure they still have room, but the actual clearance for that bridge is around 12'.
Believe me, it's not a desirable situation. Trucks quickly become aware of agencies that lowball clearances.
Everything that everyone will suggest is already in use. It may stop some trucks, but it won't stop them all.
The I-635 exit for MacArthur Blvd. in Irving, TX is set up for overheight trucks. Yellow flashing lights with BYSes tell the overheighters to exit and take the service road. Instead of redoing the MacArthur bridge higher over I-635, or having a lower road surface on I-635, they'd rather spend the $$$$ on a bunch of signs.
I don't understand why they don't use chains with a beam hanging at the height designed to make some noise on the signs warning about height restrictions, like you see at some parking garages and fast food lines. I don't hear about people running into them quite as much
Here's a similar one I remembered in Frisco, TX. I thought it was an interesting way for those over the height clearance to have some advance warning. (InstantStreetView)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mj10mn/Screenshot_20180418_053616.jpg)
The overpass in the distance is for a section of a BNSF railroad. I don't know how well this works to keep overheighters from impacting the railroad bridge, but I don't usually hear about this one on the news--it's usually a bridge on one of the freeways that gets hit, then gets spotlighted on the traffic reports.
Another way to do it: A curtain of water with a STOP sign projected on it, directly in front of the driver. (The Sydney Harbour Tunnel in Australia.)
http://www.truckinginfo.com/blog/on-the-road/story/2013/05/aussies-deploy-water-wall-tunnel-warning-technology.aspx (http://www.truckinginfo.com/blog/on-the-road/story/2013/05/aussies-deploy-water-wall-tunnel-warning-technology.aspx)
Quote from: txstateends on April 18, 2018, 06:54:05 AM
Here's a similar one I remembered in Frisco, TX. I thought it was an interesting way for those over the height clearance to have some advance warning. (InstantStreetView)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mj10mn/Screenshot_20180418_053616.jpg)
The overpass in the distance is for a section of a BNSF railroad. I don't know how well this works to keep overheighters from impacting the railroad bridge, but I don't usually hear about this one on the news--it's usually a bridge on one of the freeways that gets hit, then gets spotlighted on the traffic reports.
I've never understood warnings like this. Why provide a height warning if you've already committed to going under the low-clearance bridge and can't turn around? That applies to parking garages, drive-thru lanes, airport pickup lanes, and the like as well.
Quote from: txstateends on April 18, 2018, 06:54:05 AM
(https://preview.ibb.co/mj10mn/Screenshot_20180418_053616.jpg)
I find it really hard to believe that there are enough 18'-1" high trucks on the road to have warranted this installation.
^^ Especially when the standard minimum clearance for new bridges is 16' to 16'6"
Every bridge on a Texas highway gets those - I've seen some for bridges 20' high.
Everything is bigger in Texas (whether legal or not)
Here's a large overhead advance low clearance signn that used to exist on EB US 40 in St. Louis for the McKnight Road overpass prior to the great rebuild: Streetview. (https://goo.gl/maps/emvk5pnjzS92)
Sydney has the right idea:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiT7lxdQ.gif&hash=502655bdcbbcfff0d995bc3699e18ad4b8324fd2)
Quote from: Jet380 on April 19, 2018, 06:10:54 AM
Sydney has the right idea:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiT7lxdQ.gif&hash=502655bdcbbcfff0d995bc3699e18ad4b8324fd2)
See reply #14.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 16, 2018, 09:22:53 PM
Quote from: Jardine on April 16, 2018, 06:56:44 PM
Are they allowed to actually lie on a BGS?
Post a very low weight limit like 4000 pounds.
:-D
NY does this with clearances. "Legal clearance" (the posted clearance) is always, at minimum, a foot lower than the actual height of the bridge. Truckers know this and the effect is that standard clearance signs are completely meaningless.
The BQE, for example, has several posted 12'-2" clearance signs and tells trucks over 12'-2" to detour on Atlantic Avenue (because apparently NYC wants more truck traffic on local streets with pedestrians), but a 13'6" trailer can actually just squeak through the length of the expressway. This has necessitated the installation of "ACTUAL CLEARANCE" signs for bridges under 13'-6", which indeed display the actual clearance.
On the Hutchinson River Parkway where I was describing the sign, the road prior to Westchester Av, Tremont Av, has an actual clearance of around 14', but is signed for 10'-6". So when truckers see the next 10'-2" sign, they figure they still have room, but the actual clearance for that bridge is around 12'.
Believe me, it's not a desirable situation. Trucks quickly become aware of agencies that lowball clearances.
In New York City & New York State The Law is NO Trucks or Commercial Vehicles on Parkways due to Low Clearance and Tight Curves Including Ocean Parkway In Brooklyn, Bronx and Pelham Parkway & Mosholu Parkway in The Bronx.
My favorite is the rather blunt:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnysigns.net%2Ffiles%2Fif-you-hit-this-sign-you-will-hit-that-bridge.jpg&hash=97407472451b8df31a70c7ff57eb38dd3b759cb3)
I couldn't tell you how effective it is, though.
Quote from: wxfree on April 16, 2018, 04:25:57 PM
I've seen at least one place (I seem to think I remember another) where lights will flash warning that a truck must take a certain upcoming exit, but only when a truck over a certain height is detected. The sign says something like "Trucks take XX exit when flashing." I don't know what technology is used, and I don't remember exactly where it is. It's somewhere in Texas on I-30. The obvious weakness is the risk of equipment failure, but this is supplemental to a regular sign showing the height limit, so it's an enhancement over the minimum need.
Saw it on Loop 12 NB at the Trinity River https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7902828,-96.9196196,3a,75y,4.86h,83.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sebpO7y2CDglvZzJ4oDw38w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DebpO7y2CDglvZzJ4oDw38w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D109.6141%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7902828,-96.9196196,3a,75y,4.86h,83.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sebpO7y2CDglvZzJ4oDw38w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DebpO7y2CDglvZzJ4oDw38w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D109.6141%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)
Also I-635 WB at PGBT: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.9107401,-96.9367947,3a,26.8y,296.86h,86.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFoQ5FPq3Vzz8-HDfGK1VDQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.9107401,-96.9367947,3a,26.8y,296.86h,86.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFoQ5FPq3Vzz8-HDfGK1VDQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I'm not sure, but it ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE A BLACK LEGEND ON A YELLOW BACKGROUND. Anything else is UNACCEPTABLE by my standards and by MUTCD standards.
I've seen Gentries/BGSs with metal/rubber weights that appear quite heavy, and if hit, would probably make lots of noise. What I would do, is have signs that say:
OVERHIGHT VEHICLES
WILL HIT THESE OBJECTS.
EXIT IN xx MILES.
And have them get closer together closer to the exit. Like:
Miles:
3
2
1
.5
.25
Once you pass the exit, you have several of these in a row, so you hear a "BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM" , and maybe stop to figure out what happened.
Quote from: MCRoads on April 23, 2018, 10:39:32 AM
I’ve seen Gentries/BGSs with metal/rubber weights that appear quite heavy, and if hit, would probably make lots of noise. What I would do, is have signs that say:
OVERHIGHT VEHICLES
WILL HIT THESE OBJECTS.
EXIT IN xx MILES.
And have them get closer together closer to the exit. Like:
Miles:
3
2
1
.5
.25
Once you pass the exit, you have several of these in a row, so you hear a “BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM”, and maybe stop to figure out what happened.
The entrance ramps to Storrow Drive, Memorial Drive, and Solider's Field Road in Boston and Cambridge, which all have low clearances, use homemade rubber signs reading CARS ONLY (orange on black). These signs are suspended at the clearance height so a truck or bus will strike them. Drivers of overheight vehicles ignore them all the time.
While I certainly do not condone overheight vehicles ignoring low clearance signs & devices but maybe the solution here is to sign the alternate route for overheight vehicles to utilize; especially in areas where there are venues that will attract tourists and/or other out-of-state drivers.
Both of the bus crashes (I'm emphasizing those due to the number of passengers in the vehicles); the one recently in New York and the one five years ago in Boston (Allston) involved drivers who weren't from nor familiar with the area.
Directing one where not to go is one thing; directing one where to go is another.
If you want to eliminate overheight vehicle crashes on a road, you need to raise all the bridges up to above 13'-6". Below that, there is literally nothing that you can do to prevent careless drivers, short of 24/7 police presence. There will always be new truckers, people driving rented trucks, people who ignore signs, people who figure "I can probably make it" . . . All possible signage combinations, electronic systems, and physical contraptions have been tried and none of them fully work.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 23, 2018, 04:48:41 PM
While I certainly do not condone overheight vehicles ignoring low clearance signs & devices but maybe the solution here is to sign the alternate route for overheight vehicles to utilize; especially in areas where there are venues that will attract tourists and/or other out-of-state drivers.
Both of the bus crashes (I'm emphasizing those due to the number of passengers in the vehicles); the one recently in New York and the one five years ago in Boston (Allston) involved drivers who weren't from nor familiar with the area.
Directing one where not to go is one thing; directing one where to go is another.
Agree. Also, provide proper signing regarding the low clearance and vehicle restrictions BEFORE the overheight vehicle has a chance to enter the roadway, instead of on the ramp itself. The entrances to the O'Neill Tunnel in Downtown Boston integrate this information into the guide signs for the entrances, perhaps a similar treatment is needed here.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 23, 2018, 04:48:41 PM
While I certainly do not condone overheight vehicles ignoring low clearance signs & devices but maybe the solution here is to sign the alternate route for overheight vehicles to utilize; especially in areas where there are venues that will attract tourists and/or other out-of-state drivers.
Both of the bus crashes (I'm emphasizing those due to the number of passengers in the vehicles); the one recently in New York and the one five years ago in Boston (Allston) involved drivers who weren't from nor familiar with the area.
Directing one where not to go is one thing; directing one where to go is another.
That's assuming everyone is going the same place. A truck that was only going to be on a parkway for 3 miles had a different destination in mind than one going 20 miles.