The Clearview thread

[huskeroadgeek]

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned that Clearview looked too "friendly".  This sign is a perfect example of that.

That reminds me of the uproar in my AP American class when the slide on Indian removal was made in Comic Sans.  The fond was "too happy".

http://www.comicsanscriminal.com/

Good site.

I think I just hit on the reason why I dislike Clearview so much. It just looks inappropriate in some way. Regardless of its supposed better legibility, it looks to me like something somebody did just to "pretty up" road signs. They just don't look real to me, and I'm not sure they ever will. Whenever I see a sign in Clearview, I always want to know what it looked like in FHWA. Fortunately, since a good number of the states that use Clearview have just switched over in the last few years, most signs in Google Street View photos outside of the earliest states to switch over are still in FHWA.

[agentsteel53]

I knew Thruway signs were ugly, but I had no idea it could get this bad:

very poor proportions there - tiny shields, huge text

[cu2010]

I knew Thruway signs were ugly, but I had no idea it could get this bad:

You should see some of the new ones in Buffalo! The new ones WB for the US219 exit are particularly bad...not only do they have the new multiple-arrow signs, but the tiny US219 shield also has Clearview numbers! Yuck!

[roadfro]

Are you sure the exit numbers are Clearview. I'm no font guru, but it doesn't quite look the same to me... 

I think you misunderstood what I said in my last post.  I said the numerals for the exit and route numbers are still FHWA Series E and D.  This I am 100% certain!

Got my wires crossed while typing. That's what happens when I post while tired...

Those Nevada signs have the PennDOT curse: exit tabs in FHWA gothic with the control cities in clearview. They don't look too horrible, plus I like that cantilever.

So the word "EXIT" is in Clearview while the numbers are FHWA gothic? I'm wondering why they'd use FHWA numerals in the exit tab (other than the fact that most roadgeeks dislike the Clearview numbers more than anything)...

[Ian]

So the word "EXIT" is in Clearview while the numbers are FHWA gothic? I'm wondering why they'd use FHWA numerals in the exit tab (other than the fact that most roadgeeks dislike the Clearview numbers more than anything)...

Is the word "EXIT" really in Clearview? I couldn't really tell to be honest. PennDOT is very odd with their clearview, they seem to only use it on the control cities and THAT'S IT. Even the distances are in FHWA gothic!

[J N Winkler]

Is the word "EXIT" really in Clearview? I couldn't really tell to be honest.

I believe it is, though I can't exclude the possibility that "EXIT" is in Series D.  I can however guarantee that it is neither Series E nor Series E Modified.

PennDOT is very odd with their clearview, they seem to only use it on the control cities and THAT'S IT. Even the distances are in FHWA gothic!

It varies, but what you describe is the dominant approach ("control cities" = primary destination legend).  I have seen PennDOT signing plans with Clearview exit tabs and other signing plans with Clearview shield digits.

[The Premier]

So the word "EXIT" is in Clearview while the numbers are FHWA gothic?

Yep, although it is difficult to see it IMO.

[Scott5114]

In both of the Nevada signs, "EXIT" is in fact in Clearview.

[myosh_tino]

In both of the Nevada signs, "EXIT" is in fact in Clearview.

To me, it was very difficult to determine if the word "EXIT" was clearview or FHWA.  FWIW, on my sign drawings, the word "EXIT" is still FHWA Series E.

[InterstateNG]

After spending the weekend in eastern Ohio, I saw a few clearview signs on both I-70 and I-77. To be honest, they don't look that bad, at least compared to other states.

I was in western/central Ohio last weekend and there's Clearview in those locations as well.

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Those Nevada signs have the PennDOT curse: exit tabs in FHWA gothic with the control cities in clearview. They don't look too horrible, plus I like that cantilever.

The hell are you calling that a 'curse' for?  They're keeping the Clearview to a minimum.  That's about the only way I can tolerate its implementation.

[CL]

Those Nevada signs have the PennDOT curse: exit tabs in FHWA gothic with the control cities in clearview. They don't look too horrible, plus I like that cantilever.

The hell are you calling that a 'curse' for?  They're keeping the Clearview to a minimum.  That's about the only way I can tolerate its implementation.

Without advocating one font over the other, you've gotta keep it consistent on signage. If you're going to go Clearview, make everything (route shields exempted) in the new typeface. A mix of the two looks ugly, in my opinion.

[myosh_tino]

Those Nevada signs have the PennDOT curse: exit tabs in FHWA gothic with the control cities in clearview. They don't look too horrible, plus I like that cantilever.

The hell are you calling that a 'curse' for?  They're keeping the Clearview to a minimum.  That's about the only way I can tolerate its implementation.

Without advocating one font over the other, you've gotta keep it consistent on signage. If you're going to go Clearview, make everything (route shields exempted) in the new typeface. A mix of the two looks ugly, in my opinion.

I completely 100% disagree.  What's wrong with creating a hybrid alphabet with Clearview letters and FHWA numbers?  Like some others here, I can somewhat tolerate Clearview letters but I absolutely despise the numbers.  If a compromise has (and I stress HAS) to be made, then I'm willing to accept Clearview letters but keep the FHWA numbers.

Seriously, which one of these two shields looks better?

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

A mix of the two looks ugly, in my opinion.

But not nearly as ugly as Clearview numerals...or Clearview itself, but I guess at this point it's rather pointless to rant about that, since we appear to be stuck with it.

[agentsteel53]

the Clearview 369 has the "9" a thinner weight than the "36".  Also, I'd move the digits to the left so that they are centered more correctly.

Not that it would make it look anywhere near as good as the one on the left, but it would help.

[myosh_tino]

the Clearview 369 has the "9" a thinner weight than the "36".  Also, I'd move the digits to the left so that they are centered more correctly.

Not that it would make it look anywhere near as good as the one on the left, but it would help.

I noticed that too.  It must be a quirk in the Roadgeek fonts for Series 4W because I didn't tweak anything except for the inter-character spacing (-50 for the Series D shield and -75 for the Series 4W shield).

Here's a better comparison of the FHWA vs Clearview Digits...

The biggest problem I have with the clearview digits are the 2, 6 and 9 and, to a lesser extend, the 4 and 5.

[Quillz]

The Roadgeek imitations of the Clearview fonts are off quite a bit. It was noted in another topic. If you would like the real Clearview fonts, contact me and I can send you a copy.

[Ian]

The hell are you calling that a 'curse' for?  They're keeping the Clearview to a minimum.  That's about the only way I can tolerate its implementation.

By 'curse,' I meant something that PennDOT has been known to do. I actually don't mind them mixing it up a bit...

[agentsteel53]

I noticed that too.  It must be a quirk in the Roadgeek fonts for Series 4W because I didn't tweak anything except for the inter-character spacing (-50 for the Series D shield and -75 for the Series 4W shield).

[diagram omitted]

yeah, now that I look at it, I see what you are saying.  I have the Roadgeek Clearview set but never actually use them.  Hah.  looks like 0 is randomly thinner-stroke as well.

The biggest problem I have with the clearview digits are the 2, 6 and 9 and, to a lesser extend, the 4 and 5.

I really dislike the 5.  I am trying to figure out why I don't like the 6 and 9 because it is very similar to classic New York font, which I do like.



I have no problem with the notched 4 as it looks fairly similar to old block-font 4.



I also think the head on the 1 is way too exaggerated.  and for some reason don't like the 7.

3, 8, 0 are fine. 

[CL]

Those Nevada signs have the PennDOT curse: exit tabs in FHWA gothic with the control cities in clearview. They don't look too horrible, plus I like that cantilever.

The hell are you calling that a 'curse' for?  They're keeping the Clearview to a minimum.  That's about the only way I can tolerate its implementation.

Without advocating one font over the other, you've gotta keep it consistent on signage. If you're going to go Clearview, make everything (route shields exempted) in the new typeface. A mix of the two looks ugly, in my opinion.

I completely 100% disagree.  What's wrong with creating a hybrid alphabet with Clearview letters and FHWA numbers?  Like some others here, I can somewhat tolerate Clearview letters but I absolutely despise the numbers.  If a compromise has (and I stress HAS) to be made, then I'm willing to accept Clearview letters but keep the FHWA numbers.

Seriously, which one of these two shields looks better?

Right, which is why I say keep the route shields in Highway Gothic. I wholly, vehemently despise route shields with Clearview numerals. But... I'd rather keep the exit tab numerals Clearview, as well as any other numeral on the sign (e.g., the "25" on 25th St). Dunno, that's just personal preference (Utah, in its limited application of Clearview, does it that way and I don't mind).

[Quillz]

Both of those posted shields don't look very good in the first place, though. I think a well-designed route shield (i.e. the numbers are sized in proper proportion to the rest of the shield, etc.) can look fine when using Clearview numerals.

Had Clearview been the standard for all these decades, I wonder what our reaction might be to the FHWA Series fonts, had they been brand new.

[CL]

Both of those posted shields don't look very good in the first place, though.

The shield is in desperate need of series B or C numerals, if you ask me, a la . A pet peeve of mine has always been the three-digit shields whose numerals look like they're floating at the top.

[myosh_tino]

Both of those posted shields don't look very good in the first place, though. I think a well-designed route shield (i.e. the numbers are sized in proper proportion to the rest of the shield, etc.) can look fine when using Clearview numerals.

Actually, the shields I posted are California-spec 3-digit Interstate shields for use on guide signs which differs significantly from the FHWA-spec shield.  The California-spec use 15" numerals on a 45x38 shield.

Edit: Here are three current California-spec 2-digit Interstate sheilds (essentially 1957-spec shields).  The first uses the normal FHWA fonts (Series C and D).  The second one uses all Clearview but keeps the all caps INTERSTATE and state name.  The third one uses mixed case for INTERSTATE and state name...


I also made Clearview and FHWA versions of the California state route shield...



The Interstate shields are all 36x36 with 12-inch numerals.  The California state route shields are 30x31.25 and also use 12-inch numerals.  These are all route marker shields and are not to be used on guide signs.

[hbelkins]

The Roadgeek imitations of the Clearview fonts are off quite a bit. It was noted in another topic. If you would like the real Clearview fonts, contact me and I can send you a copy.

Sent you a private message with the e-mail address to use.

[Quillz]

Both of those posted shields don't look very good in the first place, though. I think a well-designed route shield (i.e. the numbers are sized in proper proportion to the rest of the shield, etc.) can look fine when using Clearview numerals.

Actually, the shields I posted are California-spec 3-digit Interstate shields for use on guide signs which differs significantly from the FHWA-spec shield.  The California-spec use 15" numerals on a 45x38 shield.

Edit: Here are three current California-spec 2-digit Interstate sheilds (essentially 1957-spec shields).  The first uses the normal FHWA fonts (Series C and D).  The second one uses all Clearview but keeps the all caps INTERSTATE and state name.  The third one uses mixed case for INTERSTATE and state name...


I also made Clearview and FHWA versions of the California state route shield...



The Interstate shields are all 36x36 with 12-inch numerals.  The California state route shields are 30x31.25 and also use 12-inch numerals.  These are all route marker shields and are not to be used on guide signs.

6 and 9 are my least favorite Clearview digits (I like the 1-x iteration best.) The 5 looks fine to me.