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The Clearview thread

Started by BigMattFromTexas, August 03, 2009, 05:35:25 PM

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Which do you think is better: Highway Gothic or Clearview?

Highway Gothic
Clearview

SignGeek101

#900
Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
Crossposted from the New Jersey thread. A week or two ago, I emailed NJDOT asking them if Clearview was intended to be present on new sign installs on I-195/I-295 in the Trenton area. While the email confirmed that, it also brought to light the future of the typeface:

QuoteHello Matthew,
Thank you for contacting the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT). NJDOT is aware of all signs in the field using Clearview font. FHWA gave NJDOT interim approval in 2007 for the use of Clearview lettering on I-676 and I-76 as a test case. Based on positive feedback, Clearview font was installed on additional signs on Rt. 18, Rt. 295, and Rt. 195. A representative from FHWA has reached out to us recently and told us that they will no longer be pursuing the standardization of the Clearview font. Based on this direction, NJDOT will not be fabricating or installing more signs using Clearview. These signs will be replaced in the future with signs using the EC* Modified font.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact the office of Community and Constituent Relations at (609) 530-2110.
NJ DOT Correspondence Unit

* Note - I believe "EC" was intended to be either EM or E.

It should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point. I wonder how many states will begin to re-transition to the FHWA fonts? Big ones that come to mind near me are Pennsylvania and Delaware, as well as the New York Thruway Authority.

What about E with EM spacing? I forget what the name is.

Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
It should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point. I wonder how many states will begin to re-transition to the FHWA fonts? Big ones that come to mind near me are Pennsylvania and Delaware, as well as the New York Thruway Authority.

I guess Manitoba isn't on that bandwagon. But I don't expect anything more coming from my end of the fence.



cl94

Quote from: SignGeek101 on May 11, 2015, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
Crossposted from the New Jersey thread. A week or two ago, I emailed NJDOT asking them if Clearview was intended to be present on new sign installs on I-195/I-295 in the Trenton area. While the email confirmed that, it also brought to light the future of the typeface:

QuoteHello Matthew,
Thank you for contacting the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT). NJDOT is aware of all signs in the field using Clearview font. FHWA gave NJDOT interim approval in 2007 for the use of Clearview lettering on I-676 and I-76 as a test case. Based on positive feedback, Clearview font was installed on additional signs on Rt. 18, Rt. 295, and Rt. 195. A representative from FHWA has reached out to us recently and told us that they will no longer be pursuing the standardization of the Clearview font. Based on this direction, NJDOT will not be fabricating or installing more signs using Clearview. These signs will be replaced in the future with signs using the EC* Modified font.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact the office of Community and Constituent Relations at (609) 530-2110.
NJ DOT Correspondence Unit

* Note - I believe "EC" was intended to be either EM or E.

It should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point. I wonder how many states will begin to re-transition to the FHWA fonts? Big ones that come to mind near me are Pennsylvania and Delaware, as well as the New York Thruway Authority.

What about E with EM spacing? I forget what the name is.

Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
It should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point. I wonder how many states will begin to re-transition to the FHWA fonts? Big ones that come to mind near me are Pennsylvania and Delaware, as well as the New York Thruway Authority.

I guess Manitoba isn't on that bandwagon. But I don't expect anything more coming from my end of the fence.



Canada operates under different standards. FHWA showed Clearview the door.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

TXtoNJ

I wonder if Texas will comply. My suspicion is that they will not until funding is threatened.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 11, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
I wonder if Texas will comply. My suspicion is that they will not until funding is threatened.

Comply with what?  Not pursuing is not the same as an outright ban on it.  If FHWA has given approval to Texas, that approval could be good for several years.  In terms of things to withhold money for, I would think this is going to be pretty low on the list.

cl94

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 11, 2015, 12:41:04 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 11, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
I wonder if Texas will comply. My suspicion is that they will not until funding is threatened.

Comply with what?  Not pursuing is not the same as an outright ban on it.  If FHWA has given approval to Texas, that approval could be good for several years.  In terms of things to withhold money for, I would think this is going to be pretty low on the list.

But with the highway trust fund how it is, the feds might try anything to try and lessen the money they have to pay out.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cl94 on May 11, 2015, 12:49:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 11, 2015, 12:41:04 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on May 11, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
I wonder if Texas will comply. My suspicion is that they will not until funding is threatened.

Comply with what?  Not pursuing is not the same as an outright ban on it.  If FHWA has given approval to Texas, that approval could be good for several years.  In terms of things to withhold money for, I would think this is going to be pretty low on the list.

But with the highway trust fund how it is, the feds might try anything to try and lessen the money they have to pay out.

We have 291 pages filled with examples of 'Erroneous' and 'Worst Of' signage.  If the feds were going to do something, they could start with the thousands of non-compliant signs that already exist.

jakeroot

Quote from: SignGeek101 on May 11, 2015, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
* Note - I believe "EC" was intended to be either EM or E.

What about E with EM spacing? I forget what the name is.

Enhanced E Modified. Some studies showed it being superior to Clearview and regular E(M).

I don't know all of the states using it, but probably a third of all new sign installs in Washington State over the last year have EE(M) (at least in the area where I live).

Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
It should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point.

A lot of people said that after the interim approval was denied to Gray's Harbor. So far, I haven't seen a slowdown.

J N Winkler

Quote from: jakeroot on May 11, 2015, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AMIt should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point.

A lot of people said that after the interim approval was denied to Gray's Harbor. So far, I haven't seen a slowdown.

I have--Iowa DOT has definitely thrown it overboard.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

jakeroot

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 11, 2015, 03:01:35 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 11, 2015, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AMIt should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point.

A lot of people said that after the interim approval was denied to Gray's Harbor. So far, I haven't seen a slowdown.

I have--Iowa DOT has definitely thrown it overboard.

Meant that to be a figure of speech.

SignGeek101

Quote from: cl94 on May 11, 2015, 12:25:18 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on May 11, 2015, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
Crossposted from the New Jersey thread. A week or two ago, I emailed NJDOT asking them if Clearview was intended to be present on new sign installs on I-195/I-295 in the Trenton area. While the email confirmed that, it also brought to light the future of the typeface:

QuoteHello Matthew,
Thank you for contacting the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT). NJDOT is aware of all signs in the field using Clearview font. FHWA gave NJDOT interim approval in 2007 for the use of Clearview lettering on I-676 and I-76 as a test case. Based on positive feedback, Clearview font was installed on additional signs on Rt. 18, Rt. 295, and Rt. 195. A representative from FHWA has reached out to us recently and told us that they will no longer be pursuing the standardization of the Clearview font. Based on this direction, NJDOT will not be fabricating or installing more signs using Clearview. These signs will be replaced in the future with signs using the EC* Modified font.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact the office of Community and Constituent Relations at (609) 530-2110.
NJ DOT Correspondence Unit

* Note - I believe "EC" was intended to be either EM or E.

It should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point. I wonder how many states will begin to re-transition to the FHWA fonts? Big ones that come to mind near me are Pennsylvania and Delaware, as well as the New York Thruway Authority.

What about E with EM spacing? I forget what the name is.

Quote from: Zeffy on May 11, 2015, 10:03:18 AM
It should seem that Clearview is effectively dead at this point. I wonder how many states will begin to re-transition to the FHWA fonts? Big ones that come to mind near me are Pennsylvania and Delaware, as well as the New York Thruway Authority.

I guess Manitoba isn't on that bandwagon. But I don't expect anything more coming from my end of the fence.



Canada operates under different standards. FHWA showed Clearview the door.

I know, but I still have my hopes. Quebec seems to at least notice the Mutcd. There is already a thread on this in the Canada boards, so I won't talk about it.

freebrickproductions

ALDOT's currently using a mixture of Clearview and Highway Gothic (I believe Series E(M)) on all new signs. E(M) on brand new signs at new interchanges and Clearview on replacement signage.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

Thing 342

VDOT has reigned in its use of Clearview in the past two years or so, with most new signs following a fairly strict interpretation of the FHWA's rules. Before, the font was used everywhere on most new signage.

cl94

Saw some brand-new BGSes on a new sign structure over I-190 in Buffalo. Might just be because the project is part of something done by NYSDOT, but I-190 (maintained by NYSTA) recently got some new signs that weren't Clearview. First non-Clearview signs in years. Maybe this is the beginning of the end?
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

KG909

Quote from: cl94 on May 16, 2015, 09:55:46 PM
Saw some brand-new BGSes on a new sign structure over I-190 in Buffalo. Might just be because the project is part of something done by NYSDOT, but I-190 (maintained by NYSTA) recently got some new signs that weren't Clearview. First non-Clearview signs in years. Maybe this is the beginning of the end?
Good
~Fuccboi

jakeroot

Tacoma uses Clearview in the strangest places:


codyg1985

Eww, and a borderless sign, at that.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

vdeane

Quote from: cl94 on May 16, 2015, 09:55:46 PM
Saw some brand-new BGSes on a new sign structure over I-190 in Buffalo. Might just be because the project is part of something done by NYSDOT, but I-190 (maintained by NYSTA) recently got some new signs that weren't Clearview. First non-Clearview signs in years. Maybe this is the beginning of the end?
Maybe.  There's also this relatively new sign down in Yonkers:
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Pink Jazz

#917
Just as a thought, does anyone find Clearview to be more "feminine" than Highway Gothic?  I wonder if the FHWA doesn't want American road signs to be in a girly font.  It seems that humanist sans-serif fonts are sometimes viewed as more feminine than grotesque or neo-grotesque fonts.

jakeroot

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 19, 2015, 04:15:50 PM
Just as a thought, does anyone find Clearview to be more "feminine" than Highway Gothic?  I wonder if the FHWA doesn't want American road signs to be in a girly font.

It has a more humanist feel than Highway Gothic, I believe by design. In that sense, I suppose you could consider it more feminine.

SignGeek101

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 19, 2015, 04:15:50 PM
Just as a thought, does anyone find Clearview to be more "feminine" than Highway Gothic?  I wonder if the FHWA doesn't want American road signs to be in a girly font.  It seems that humanist sans-serif fonts are sometimes viewed as more feminine than grotesque or neo-grotesque fonts.

No, I don't think you can say it looks more "feminine". I'll admit, it looks more modern and "smooth" than FHWA though.

Calibri is another example. It looks smoother than Arial or Times New Roman, even though Times New Roman is a serif font, and calibri is humanist sans-serif.

hbelkins

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 19, 2015, 04:15:50 PM
Just as a thought, does anyone find Clearview to be more "feminine" than Highway Gothic?

No.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

6a

Figured you guys would appreciate this...


SignGeek101

Quote from: 6a on May 19, 2015, 05:21:32 PM
Figured you guys would appreciate this...



I find it ironic. The "road to progress" is converting all road signage to Clearview!  :-D

Duke87

I can totally see that. Clearview is curvier than Highway Gothic, and there is definitely an association that blocky = masculine while curvy = feminine. This not only matches the forms of men's and women's bodies, it also mirrors their handwriting. I've noticed that women's handwriting is usually curvier than men's.

Of course it's a chicken-egg problem. Do we perceive curvy text as feminine because women have curvy writing, or do girls develop curvy writing when they learn to write because it's perceived as more feminine?
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

vtk

Quote from: 6a on May 19, 2015, 05:21:32 PM
Figured you guys would appreciate this...



I think you found the "smallest BGS in your area" too...
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.



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