The Clearview thread

[Takumi]

[hbelkins]

I can't see the use of Clearview on an Interstate shield. It's just ugly.

[Thing 342]

Someone in another thread mentioned that Clearview was a lot like New Coke. It may have tested better than Highway Gothic, but it faced a negative reaction by the public (in this case the forum) due to nostalgia.

[mukade]

...despite the fact that several eastern states like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio, and Texas are already applying Clearview, Highway Gothic will still be in service and won't be completely outserved by Clearview...

Indiana does not use Clearview.

[mukade]

Someone in another thread mentioned that Clearview was a lot like New Coke. It may have tested better than Highway Gothic, but it faced a negative reaction by the public (in this case the forum) due to nostalgia.

Nexus 7 now Free

It is less about nostalgia and more about:
1) Overblown claims of benefits
2) Immense waste by some states to replace a large number of perfectly good signs
3) It seemed to be a solution in search of a problem

[Big John]

...despite the fact that several eastern states like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio, and Texas are already applying Clearview, Highway Gothic will still be in service and won't be completely outserved by Clearview...

Indiana does not use Clearview.

He may have meany Illinois or Kentucky.

[corco]

3) It seemed to be a solution in search of a problem

That's my problem with it- progress is inevitable, and people who don't accept that are going to live miserable lives, but there's no reason to change things just for the sake of change, and that's what Clearview wreaks of.

[getemngo]

Hey, here's an idea! How about we just let the most legible font for each application be used for that application, regardless of how "ugly" it is?

2) Immense waste by some states to replace a large number of perfectly good signs

But yeah, let's put a stop to this. Looking at you, Michigan.

[PurdueBill]

...despite the fact that several eastern states like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio, and Texas are already applying Clearview, Highway Gothic will still be in service and won't be completely outserved by Clearview...

Indiana does not use Clearview.

There is some Clearview on the Indiana Toll Road, near Chicago.  INDOT doesn't use it in general though.

I have wondered; does the Clearview FAQ carry any weight; are the things it says in policy somewhere?  It would be nice if at least some of the things that recent PA signage has (like all-caps and numerals in FHWA lettering with only destinations in Clearview) could be adopted everywhere....Ohio's Clearview signs all have everything in Clearview but the shield numerals--including sometimes negative contrast words and sometimes not.

And indeed, there have been many places I've seen perfectly good signage replaced in order to make it Clearview; Michigan did a lot of this especially.  I am glad that two states I have lived in (Massachusetts and Indiana) have declined to use it; I wish Ohio would knock it off. 

[Billy F 1988]

...despite the fact that several eastern states like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio, and Texas are already applying Clearview, Highway Gothic will still be in service and won't be completely outserved by Clearview...

Indiana does not use Clearview.

Wait, what? I swore I thought they used it. I probably had mistaken Indiana for Illinois then.

And as for this:


Bleh! That's exactly what I mentioned about the Clearview numbers. GACK! Well, now that I've seen this photo of an Interstate shield with Clearview applied to it, this proves my point of just how ugly it looks. Something like a Maine-styled font face would work in conjunction with Clearview, but then again, I highly doubt it.

[vtk]

And indeed, there have been many places I've seen perfectly good signage replaced in order to make it Clearview; Michigan did a lot of this especially.  I am glad that two states I have lived in (Massachusetts and Indiana) have declined to use it; I wish Ohio would knock it off. 

I don't think Ohio is replacing signs just for the sake of switching to Clearview.  I think they're attempting to replace signs that are old, not reflective enough, or otherwise deficient.  The new signs are Clearview because that's the policy for new signs in most districts, but this is not the reason the replacement is happening.  The main problem is ODOT seems to be terrible at identifying and prioritizing the deficient signs, so relatively new signs get replaced needlessly while very old signs that are faded or falling apart remain in service.

[hbelkins]

I've seen some street signs in Indiana in Clearview, but none on state highways.

[PurdueBill]

And indeed, there have been many places I've seen perfectly good signage replaced in order to make it Clearview; Michigan did a lot of this especially.  I am glad that two states I have lived in (Massachusetts and Indiana) have declined to use it; I wish Ohio would knock it off. 

I don't think Ohio is replacing signs just for the sake of switching to Clearview.  I think they're attempting to replace signs that are old, not reflective enough, or otherwise deficient.  The new signs are Clearview because that's the policy for new signs in most districts, but this is not the reason the replacement is happening.  The main problem is ODOT seems to be terrible at identifying and prioritizing the deficient signs, so relatively new signs get replaced needlessly while very old signs that are faded or falling apart remain in service.

My comment in the second sentence wasn't really tied to the first, but I didn't want to start a whole new paragraph--I just wish Ohio would knock it off with the Clearview totally--not just for the sake of replacing signs that don't need it. 

You are totally correct about the main problem in Ohio--I know of signs that have gone through 2 or 3 replacements while ones in much worse shape still stand.  (315 north of Columbus is a major offender--I love the old signs for their button copy and resilience, but they are in TERRIBLE shape and worthless at night.  Meanwhile the 2001-ish button copy installed on I-70 west of downtown was replaced only a couple years later with reflective (not Clearview at least) signs while the button copy there could have at least served 15 years probably.  (The first two photos on this page show some of the ones I'm talking about--the 670 ones never even had the orange panel removed to reveal "Airport" before they were replaced!

[TCN7JM]

It seems Clearview is coming to the Dakotas in small increments. Most, if not all of the perfectly good BGSs on southbound Interstate 29 in North Dakota were replaced with Clearview ones within the past couple months. Luckily, I haven't seen much of it in South Dakota. Even though I easily prefer Highway Gothic, I don't honestly mind Clearview. My problem with it is that they took the time to replace signs that had no business being replaced.

[TEG24601]

Having spent a lot of time driving, I happen to like Clearview, for one simple reason... I can read the sign at 70+ MPH, without struggling and can read it at greater distances.  While I know usually where I'm going (been reading maps since I was 2) I have always struggled to read Highway Gothic road signs at any speed over 55.  I do believe that both can serve a useful purpose, I just don't understand the continual bashing of something that may actually make life easier for a majority of drivers.

[hbelkins]

Am I the only one who DOESN'T notice a legibility improvement with Clearview?

Not that Highway Gothic is all that great. I wouldn't have a problem with legibility of Arial or Helvetica on guide signs.

[DaBigE]

Am I the only one who DOESN'T notice a legibility improvement with Clearview?

Not that Highway Gothic is all that great. I wouldn't have a problem with legibility of Arial or Helvetica on guide signs.

No, you're not alone. I find Clearview to be harder to read at night, as I can't seem to read the sign from as far away. The stroke is seems a bit too thin. During the day, it's okay, but not enough to be worth the effort of doing a wholesale switch of fonts IMO.

[Molandfreak]

And as for this:


Bleh! That's exactly what I mentioned about the Clearview numbers. GACK! Well, now that I've seen this photo of an Interstate shield with Clearview applied to it, this proves my point of just how ugly it looks. Something like a Maine-styled font face would work in conjunction with Clearview, but then again, I highly doubt it.

Clearview numerals aren't half as bad as it gets...

[Brandon]

Am I the only one who DOESN'T notice a legibility improvement with Clearview?

Not that Highway Gothic is all that great. I wouldn't have a problem with legibility of Arial or Helvetica on guide signs.

No, you are not alone.  I find Clearview and Highway Gothic to be pretty much equal when the sign reflectivity is the same.  IMHO, we should go from using E(M) to just plain E.  E(M) was for the buttons on button copy.  Plain old E would be just as legible as Clearview when all other conditions are the same (font height, reflectivity, etc).

[Brandon]

What the Series F?

[Molandfreak]

What the Series F?

Yes. It's ten times worse than clearview.

[Brandon]

Yes. It's ten times worse than clearview.

Not really.  The problem would be the same if the numerals were Clearview or Series F.  They take up too much fricking space in the shield and look crowded.

[vdeane]

Yeah, the problem with that Clearview shield posted isn't the Clearview, its that the numbers are just way too big!  Clearview looks just fine when properly proportioned (which is rarely).

[vdeane]

Yates County, NY appears to have adopted  clearview.  I noticed clearview county and town line signs.

NYSDOT signs, or local ones?

I've seen a few Clearview NYSDOT signs around...one that comes to mind is US9 southbound at the northern terminus of NY9D in Wappingers Falls. I've seen a Clearview sign on NY104 as well.

Finally got a picture of one:

[ctrabs74]

And as for this:


Bleh! That's exactly what I mentioned about the Clearview numbers. GACK! Well, now that I've seen this photo of an Interstate shield with Clearview applied to it, this proves my point of just how ugly it looks. Something like a Maine-styled font face would work in conjunction with Clearview, but then again, I highly doubt it.

Clearview numerals aren't half as bad as it gets...

That's nothing compared to the old signs along New Hampshire's US 3/Everett Turnpike.  The green assurance signs had an absolutely hideous font for the "3" in the U.S. shield.