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Author Topic: Current state speed limit increase proposals  (Read 91378 times)

Pink Jazz

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #375 on: May 14, 2017, 07:14:51 PM »

Is Arizona too congested now to see 80 mph on certain sections of interstate? I'm surprised they haven't done it.


What has killed past attempts to raise the speed limit beyond 75 in Arizona is the state's criminal speeding law that any speed above 85 mph is considered a criminal offense.  Changing that has been a tough sell to the state's lawmakers, since a 5 mph buffer is too small.  That is why I see NM raising its speed limit before AZ since NM does not have such law.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #376 on: May 14, 2017, 08:22:47 PM »

A population density map wouldn't work in this instance. New York's density is skewed because of New York City, Long Island and a handful of other cities (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse). It's not very populated further north and the density is a lot lower in the Finger Lakes and Southern Tier.

And in some states with higher densities, a 70 MPH SL or a 65 MPH SL can exist well into urban areas, like Detroit. It's just politics as usual that dictates some awful speed limits (like Pennsylvania's law that mandates a 55 MPH SL in any urban area for any expressway/interstate).
Sure it is also politics. But population density statewide is also relevant via politics: I have hard time thinking those representing NYC would see increase of speed limit the same way as upstate. Advantage is fairly vague for the city...

Downstate politicians have been some of the main people pushing for increases. Most people think having a limit of 55 on the LIE, Sunrise Highway and the Taconic is absurd, given that everyone drives 75+, especially on the first two. The 75 bill that died a couple years ago was proposed by someone representing the Bronx. In New York, people generally go 10-15+ above the speed limit, which implies that the speed limit should be higher. Hell, the cops typically enforce speed as if the limit is 75.

And again, population density doesn't necessarily mean anything. Ohio has 65 mph limits right up to downtown Columbus and 70 mph limits INSIDE CITY LIMITS. Columbus is the 15th largest city in the country. Pennsylvania requires 55 if you're in a remotely suburban area.
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MASTERNC

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #377 on: May 14, 2017, 09:29:17 PM »

A population density map wouldn't work in this instance. New York's density is skewed because of New York City, Long Island and a handful of other cities (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse). It's not very populated further north and the density is a lot lower in the Finger Lakes and Southern Tier.

And in some states with higher densities, a 70 MPH SL or a 65 MPH SL can exist well into urban areas, like Detroit. It's just politics as usual that dictates some awful speed limits (like Pennsylvania's law that mandates a 55 MPH SL in any urban area for any expressway/interstate).
Sure it is also politics. But population density statewide is also relevant via politics: I have hard time thinking those representing NYC would see increase of speed limit the same way as upstate. Advantage is fairly vague for the city...

Downstate politicians have been some of the main people pushing for increases. Most people think having a limit of 55 on the LIE, Sunrise Highway and the Taconic is absurd, given that everyone drives 75+, especially on the first two. The 75 bill that died a couple years ago was proposed by someone representing the Bronx. In New York, people generally go 10-15+ above the speed limit, which implies that the speed limit should be higher. Hell, the cops typically enforce speed as if the limit is 75.

And again, population density doesn't necessarily mean anything. Ohio has 65 mph limits right up to downtown Columbus and 70 mph limits INSIDE CITY LIMITS. Columbus is the 15th largest city in the country. Pennsylvania requires 55 if you're in a remotely suburban area.

It's strange, because the PA Turnpike gladly posts 70 MPH in Philly but a road like US 202 is stuck at 55 MPH, when traffic could easily support 65 MPH (flow of traffic is closer to 70).
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #378 on: May 15, 2017, 02:45:14 PM »

It's strange, because the PA Turnpike gladly posts 70 MPH in near Philly but a road like US 202 is stuck at 55 MPH, when traffic could easily support 65 MPH (flow of traffic is closer to 70).
FTFY.

To date, there's no highway within Philadelphia's city limits that's posted higher than 55; even though many exceed 55 during off-peak periods.

Regarding the PA Turnpike near Philly (the I-276 section and the lower I-476/NE Extension section); the supposed reasoning for raising the limit along those stretches initially to 65 then later to 70 (even near Philly) was an effort to maintain as consistent a speed limit as possible throughout the entire Turnpike, tunnels & work zones being the exceptions.

I do agree that many highways in the immediate Greater Philadelphia area could have higher posted speed limits.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #379 on: May 19, 2017, 01:23:12 PM »

Do you see some correlation between these two maps?



I think at least some correlation is there... There are also differences, e.g. OR/WA.. But Maine definitely fits the trend.

Yes, there is a correlation.  Of course we can all come up with counterexamples, and people have been doing that in reply to your post, but they are just counterexamples.  The obvious pattern is that less dense states have higher speed limits—with the exception of some already well-known outliers like Texas and (at least recently) Oregon.

Sure, I've been in cities where traffic tends to flow at 75 mph (I lived in Chicagoland, after all).  But I think what that really signifies is that a lot of rural highways are underposted, more so than urban highways.
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #380 on: May 19, 2017, 01:38:42 PM »

Based on the map, New Mexico is definitely a state that can warrant an 80 mph speed limit on some of its rural Interstates as well as on US 70 through White Sands.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #381 on: May 19, 2017, 02:20:41 PM »

Mapping finer-grain population density, say by county, with speed limits at the spot would take away some of the seeming outliers.  For instance, Washington's 75 mph speed limits are only found east of the Cascades, where the population is sparse.  Texas' 85 mph zones I think are all in West Texas, where the population is sparse.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #382 on: May 19, 2017, 02:48:29 PM »

Mapping finer-grain population density, say by county, with speed limits at the spot would take away some of the seeming outliers.  For instance, Washington's 75 mph speed limits are only found east of the Cascades, where the population is sparse.  Texas' 85 mph zones I think are all in West Texas, where the population is sparse.


Texas only has one highway with an 85 mph speed limit, and ironically it's in a higher density area.
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jakeroot

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #383 on: May 19, 2017, 03:42:57 PM »

Mapping finer-grain population density, say by county, with speed limits at the spot would take away some of the seeming outliers.  For instance, Washington's 75 mph speed limits are only found east of the Cascades, where the population is sparse.  Texas' 85 mph zones I think are all in West Texas, where the population is sparse.

Texas only has one highway with an 85 mph speed limit, and ironically it's in a higher density area.

I'm not sure I'd describe SH-130's routing as in a "higher density area". Is it less remote than the 10 in West Texas? Sure, but it's still a very rural freeway.

I think the more important measure is AADT levels. SH-130 doesn't get much use.
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michravera

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #384 on: May 28, 2017, 02:55:27 AM »

Is Arizona too congested now to see 80 mph on certain sections of interstate? I'm surprised they haven't done it.
Arizona is too congested *IN PHOENIX* to have an 80 MPH speed limit. But, in and around Phoenix, most of the speed limits are around 65 MPH and give or take they are about right. Nothing about I-10 in eastern Arizona gives me much reason for anything but a few advisory speed limits. They could make it 90 out there.
California is too congested or too hilly for 80 MPH (or 130 km/h) *ALONG THE COAST*, but *LARGE* portions of I-5, 8, 10, and 40 and certainly I-505 and portions of 580 could support 80 MPH for cars with little trouble at all. There are even a few pockets along US-101 (San Miguel to King City, for sure) and I-80 (thinking Fairfield to Davis or West Sac), certainly portions of CASR-58 and probably 99. There are portions of CASR-85 and I-280 that are used for a clandestine race track at some times whereas, at other times, the speed limit is irrelevant because you'd have trouble exceeding it, even if it were 55 MPH.
 
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #385 on: July 15, 2017, 12:47:39 PM »

Is Arizona too congested now to see 80 mph on certain sections of interstate? I'm surprised they haven't done it.


What has killed past attempts to raise the speed limit beyond 75 in Arizona is the state's criminal speeding law that any speed above 85 mph is considered a criminal offense.  Changing that has been a tough sell to the state's lawmakers, since a 5 mph buffer is too small.  That is why I see NM raising its speed limit before AZ since NM does not have such law.

Super speeder law in Arizona? Barry Goldwater would be turning in his grave!
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #386 on: July 17, 2017, 04:43:12 PM »

Is Arizona too congested now to see 80 mph on certain sections of interstate? I'm surprised they haven't done it.


What has killed past attempts to raise the speed limit beyond 75 in Arizona is the state's criminal speeding law that any speed above 85 mph is considered a criminal offense.  Changing that has been a tough sell to the state's lawmakers, since a 5 mph buffer is too small.  That is why I see NM raising its speed limit before AZ since NM does not have such law.

Super speeder law in Arizona? Barry Goldwater would be turning in his grave!

It shocks me how few people are aware of this law.  For comparison almost everyone seems to be aware of Virginia's reckless driving over 80 law.  Is there a difference in the enforcement rates between the two states?
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cl94

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #387 on: July 17, 2017, 04:52:54 PM »

Is Arizona too congested now to see 80 mph on certain sections of interstate? I'm surprised they haven't done it.


What has killed past attempts to raise the speed limit beyond 75 in Arizona is the state's criminal speeding law that any speed above 85 mph is considered a criminal offense.  Changing that has been a tough sell to the state's lawmakers, since a 5 mph buffer is too small.  That is why I see NM raising its speed limit before AZ since NM does not have such law.

Super speeder law in Arizona? Barry Goldwater would be turning in his grave!

It shocks me how few people are aware of this law.  For comparison almost everyone seems to be aware of Virginia's reckless driving over 80 law.  Is there a difference in the enforcement rates between the two states?

Virginia has signs regarding the reckless driving law. Does Arizona post signs at regular intervals?
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #388 on: July 17, 2017, 07:12:56 PM »

Is Arizona too congested now to see 80 mph on certain sections of interstate? I'm surprised they haven't done it.


What has killed past attempts to raise the speed limit beyond 75 in Arizona is the state's criminal speeding law that any speed above 85 mph is considered a criminal offense.  Changing that has been a tough sell to the state's lawmakers, since a 5 mph buffer is too small.  That is why I see NM raising its speed limit before AZ since NM does not have such law.

Super speeder law in Arizona? Barry Goldwater would be turning in his grave!

It shocks me how few people are aware of this law.  For comparison almost everyone seems to be aware of Virginia's reckless driving over 80 law.  Is there a difference in the enforcement rates between the two states?

Virginia has signs regarding the reckless driving law. Does Arizona post signs at regular intervals?

No, and as far as I know Virginia's signage is fairly recent and so far it is only on I-95 and I-81, yet almost everyone knew about that law even before VDOT posted those signs.  However, Virginia does have its Speed Monitored by Aircraft signs.
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mrsman

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #389 on: July 20, 2017, 12:20:50 AM »

IMO there should be a large buffer between a prima facie reckless speeding law and the top speed limit in the state.  It is better to be worded as 25 mph over the speed limit, as opposed to 80 MPH.  80 MPH is very fast when the speed limits are 55 during the days of the NMSL.  It is probably the speed of a lot of traffic  when the speed limit is 70 MPH, which is where many rural interstates are signed these days.

I don't believe that 80 is reckless on any rural interstate, but 100 might be.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #390 on: July 20, 2017, 02:50:18 PM »

Of the remaining NE states that are still 65 which one is most likely to raise theirs if any?
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cl94

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #391 on: July 20, 2017, 06:57:19 PM »

IMO there should be a large buffer between a prima facie reckless speeding law and the top speed limit in the state.  It is better to be worded as 25 mph over the speed limit, as opposed to 80 MPH.  80 MPH is very fast when the speed limits are 55 during the days of the NMSL.  It is probably the speed of a lot of traffic  when the speed limit is 70 MPH, which is where many rural interstates are signed these days.

I don't believe that 80 is reckless on any rural interstate, but 100 might be.

80 generally isn't reckless on a modern-standard freeway period. Heck, traffic on I-495 and NY 27 on Long Island (both signed at 55) generally moves above 80. I've had my doors blown off when I've been going 80-85 on those roads. Hard to say the 85th percentile speed is reckless, right?  :-D

Of the remaining NE states that are still 65 which one is most likely to raise theirs if any?

Good question, as all of the remaining ones have opposition at the state level. CT and RI have the best justification for keeping it low (population density). There has been a push to raise NY and NJ to 70-75, but those bills keep dying in committee. Mass Pike up to 70 has been discussed. I don't recall any discussion whatsoever in Vermont, but all 65 zones there could handle 70.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #392 on: August 01, 2017, 10:37:18 PM »

IMO there should be a large buffer between a prima facie reckless speeding law and the top speed limit in the state.  It is better to be worded as 25 mph over the speed limit, as opposed to 80 MPH.  80 MPH is very fast when the speed limits are 55 during the days of the NMSL.  It is probably the speed of a lot of traffic  when the speed limit is 70 MPH, which is where many rural interstates are signed these days.

I don't believe that 80 is reckless on any rural interstate, but 100 might be.

80 generally isn't reckless on a modern-standard freeway period. Heck, traffic on I-495 and NY 27 on Long Island (both signed at 55) generally moves above 80. I've had my doors blown off when I've been going 80-85 on those roads. Hard to say the 85th percentile speed is reckless, right?  :-D

Of the remaining NE states that are still 65 which one is most likely to raise theirs if any?

Good question, as all of the remaining ones have opposition at the state level. CT and RI have the best justification for keeping it low (population density). There has been a push to raise NY and NJ to 70-75, but those bills keep dying in committee. Mass Pike up to 70 has been discussed. I don't recall any discussion whatsoever in Vermont, but all 65 zones there could handle 70.
ct and ri could both handle 70 if not 75.
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Rothman

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #393 on: August 01, 2017, 11:40:20 PM »



ct and ri could both handle 70 if not 75.

Not across the board.  Some places, yes.  I-95 in Providence or SW CT?  Not so much.

You seem to be on a posting spree, too.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #394 on: August 02, 2017, 03:16:59 PM »



ct and ri could both handle 70 if not 75.

Not across the board.  Some places, yes.  I-95 in Providence or SW CT?  Not so much.

You seem to be on a posting spree, too.
I meant max of 75.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #395 on: December 25, 2017, 02:19:06 AM »

So I guess this fits well in here, not really worth starting a new thread over. Had no idea this was supposed to happen until I saw the new signs today. Looks like ODOT raised the Truck speed limits in all 65/55 zones to 65/60. This matches the new rural central/eastern Oregon highways limits like US-97, it was silly to have I-5 with a lower overall speed limit. Definitely a step in the right direction. Oddly, the 60/55 zones are still the same, and they don't plan to change them.

News article: http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_to_raise_some_interstat.html

Study (PDF): http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Engineering/Docs_TrafficEng/Truck-Speed-Exec-Sum-2017.pdf

There's a few questionable/bullshit statements found in the study, which otherwise all makes sense:

Quote
It is fairly well established that increasing speeds leads to increasing crashes
Source? It's definitely not black and white like they make it out to be. I'd be interested to see how the increases have affected I84 or US-20 in Eastern Oregon, I feel like they probably didn't change much, or even got a bit better. Though I don't have the numbers.

Quote
Raising posted speeds encourages vehicles to travel faster and may result in more crashes.  Setting the speeds closer to the desired speed of travel will reduce travel speed variance between vehicles and may result in fewer crashes.
I mean, true I guess since they said "may", but you basically contradicted yourself in back to back sentences.

Quote
A posted speed increase in truck speeds may not result in much actual increase in truck travel speeds, unlike a similar raise
in passenger car speeds.
I'd like to see, for example, a comparison before and after in travel speeds of cars and trucks after Idaho raised speeds from 75/65 to 80/70. I suspect actual driving speeds didn't change that much for either type of vehicle.

Oh, ODOT...

Also worth noting they plan to lower the speed limit in Roseburg city limits from 65 to 60. Matches other urban areas like Eugene and Salem, so I can't complain too much about consistency. Other than saying that all those should be 65, and the rural areas should be 70-75, but, uh, yeah, not gonna happen.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 02:22:00 AM by doorknob60 »
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Hurricane Rex

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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #396 on: December 25, 2017, 02:43:30 AM »

So I guess this fits well in here, not really worth starting a new thread over. Had no idea this was supposed to happen until I saw the new signs today. Looks like ODOT raised the Truck speed limits in all 65/55 zones to 65/60. This matches the new rural central/eastern Oregon highways limits like US-97, it was silly to have I-5 with a lower overall speed limit. Definitely a step in the right direction. Oddly, the 60/55 zones are still the same, and they don't plan to change them.

News article: http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_to_raise_some_interstat.html

Study (PDF): http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/Engineering/Docs_TrafficEng/Truck-Speed-Exec-Sum-2017.pdf

There's a few questionable/bullshit statements found in the study, which otherwise all makes sense:

Quote
It is fairly well established that increasing speeds leads to increasing crashes
Source? It's definitely not black and white like they make it out to be. I'd be interested to see how the increases have affected I84 or US-20 in Eastern Oregon, I feel like they probably didn't change much, or even got a bit better. Though I don't have the numbers.

Quote
Raising posted speeds encourages vehicles to travel faster and may result in more crashes.  Setting the speeds closer to the desired speed of travel will reduce travel speed variance between vehicles and may result in fewer crashes.
I mean, true I guess since they said "may", but you basically contradicted yourself in back to back sentences.

Quote
A posted speed increase in truck speeds may not result in much actual increase in truck travel speeds, unlike a similar raise
in passenger car speeds.
I'd like to see, for example, a comparison before and after in travel speeds of cars and trucks after Idaho raised speeds from 75/65 to 80/70. I suspect actual driving speeds didn't change that much for either type of vehicle.

Oh, ODOT...

Also worth noting they plan to lower the speed limit in Roseburg city limits from 65 to 60. Matches other urban areas like Eugene and Salem, so I can't complain too much about consistency. Other than saying that all those should be 65, and the rural areas should be 70-75, but, uh, yeah, not gonna happen.

That is ODOT for you, giving vision zero [censored] while not backing up their facts. Plus many sources are coming out saying its safer to have faster speeds. I'm happy about the section overall as it is a step in the right direction.

Their data could be used against them as it support a a 70 mph limit. I'm highly considering proposing a speed limit increase bill to my representative because he wasn't opposed to it. To keep it reasonable to pass I wouldn't go above 70T65 except for a section of I-84/I-82 at 75T70.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #397 on: December 25, 2017, 02:45:14 AM »

Mapping finer-grain population density, say by county, with speed limits at the spot would take away some of the seeming outliers.  For instance, Washington's 75 mph speed limits are only found east of the Cascades, where the population is sparse.  Texas' 85 mph zones I think are all in West Texas, where the population is sparse.

Unless they've done something I'm not aware about since June, I-90 is still 70 east of the Cascades.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #398 on: December 25, 2017, 02:49:45 AM »

Mapping finer-grain population density, say by county, with speed limits at the spot would take away some of the seeming outliers.  For instance, Washington's 75 mph speed limits are only found east of the Cascades, where the population is sparse.  Texas' 85 mph zones I think are all in West Texas, where the population is sparse.

Unless they've done something I'm not aware about since June, I-90 is still 70 east of the Cascades.

Correct. The law allows limits up to 75, but WSDOT has not yet studied a road that it finds to be suitable for 75. Hence, no 75 mph limits yet posted.

Here's the most recent study, which was in relation to I-90 from near George, to Spokane County: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/planning/Studies/i90speedlimit/default.htm

As far as I know, WSDOT has not ruled out further studies. I-5 from Olympia to Vancouver (excluding the urban limits in between) seems like the next logical study.
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Re: Current state speed limit increase proposals
« Reply #399 on: December 25, 2017, 03:04:02 AM »

Mapping finer-grain population density, say by county, with speed limits at the spot would take away some of the seeming outliers.  For instance, Washington's 75 mph speed limits are only found east of the Cascades, where the population is sparse.  Texas' 85 mph zones I think are all in West Texas, where the population is sparse.

Unless they've done something I'm not aware about since June, I-90 is still 70 east of the Cascades.

Correct. The law allows limits up to 75, but WSDOT has not yet studied a road that it finds to be suitable for 75. Hence, no 75 mph limits yet posted.

Here's the most recent study, which was in relation to I-90 from near George, to Spokane County: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/planning/Studies/i90speedlimit/default.htm

As far as I know, WSDOT has not ruled out further studies. I-5 from Olympia to Vancouver (excluding the urban limits in between) seems like the next logical study.

That study showed a 75 mph limit was suitable at least to me (73 average). The 2 corridors I would study: The one you mentioned plus I-82 between mp 38 and the Oregon Border.

Now about Washington's 60 mph truck limit.... Or just the west coast in general....
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Road and weather geek for life.

Running till I die.

 


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