Pedestrian signals - one vs. two boxes

[Pink Jazz]

In the past, pedestrian signals were either available in one or two box variants.  In the two box variant, the DON'T WALK and WALK indications were in separate boxes.  However, it seems that the trend is now towards one box signals, while two box signals seem to be going away, although some two box signals have been retrofitted with LED indicators with the raised hand/walking man in the top box and the countdown timer in the bottom box; this was commonly done in the late 1990s as a drop-in replacement to keep the existing enclosures as a way for cities to save money.

I wonder, why are cities moving away from the two box pedestrian signals?

[KEK Inc.]

Some of the two-box variants also had symbols. 

I prefer the one-box varient.  Since 2003, they've also had countdowns which are nice.   95% of the lights in Seattle are updated, and I do like it when I'm driving at night -- I can notice how long the light will be green by looking at the pedestrian countdowns. 

[jeffandnicole]

I wonder, why are cities moving away from the two box pedestrian signals?

Unlike a traffic light, where a color-blind person may not notice a green vs red light if it was in a single box, a ped signal uses symbols in addition to colors to indicate whether a ped may or may not cross.  Thus, only one box is necessary.

[PHLBOS]

I wonder, why are cities moving away from the two box pedestrian signals?

Short answer: cost.

[Pink Jazz]

I wonder, why are cities moving away from the two box pedestrian signals?

Short answer: cost.

I know in the late 1990s, some cities retrofitted their existing two-box pedestrian signals with LED indications, with the countdown timer in the lower box.  However, now even these seem to be going away.  I don't think I have ever seen any two box pedestrian signals here in the Phoenix area.

[Revive 755]

As long as we are somewhat on the subject, did the three box pedestrian signal, as shown Figure 4E-1 of the MUTCD, ever get used anywhere?

[Big John]

As long as we are somewhat on the subject, did the three box pedestrian signal, as shown Figure 4E-1 of the MUTCD, ever get used anywhere?

I have seen one in Madison WI, but all 3 in one vertical line: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.075424,-89.450953,3a,75y,7.72h,87.41t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbZ-poC9iZgdTS8qx5AH-Zg!2e0

[DaBigE]

As long as we are somewhat on the subject, did the three box pedestrian signal, as shown Figure 4E-1 of the MUTCD, ever get used anywhere?

I have seen one in Madison WI, but all 3 in one vertical line: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.075424,-89.450953,3a,75y,7.72h,87.41t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbZ-poC9iZgdTS8qx5AH-Zg!2e0

Since you brought up Madison, they routinely install two-unit pedestrian signals for new signal installations, with a combo hand/man unit on top of a separate countdown unit. Most everyone else around Wisconsin (WisDOT included) installs the single-unit, combo hand/man/countdown indication. Similarly, they seem to refuse to switch to the polycarbonate housings, despite how much paint flakes off the metal housings within a couple years. While other communities seem to make life easier and piggyback off of WisDOT standards, Madison seems to routinely give WisDOT the middle finger.

[PurdueBill]

As long as we are somewhat on the subject, did the three box pedestrian signal, as shown Figure 4E-1 of the MUTCD, ever get used anywhere?

I have seen one in Madison WI, but all 3 in one vertical line: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.075424,-89.450953,3a,75y,7.72h,87.41t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbZ-poC9iZgdTS8qx5AH-Zg!2e0

The WALK and DONT WALK faces appear to be programmed-visibility heads there; the opposite corner of the intersection has one such setup as well and one new one with WALK and DONT WALK on top and timer on the bottom of only two heads, the type that is present elsewhere at the intersection.  The configuration of the intersection (with channelized left turns) evidently made it safest to hold over the programmed-visibility heads from the old signals (visible in older street view) so people wouldn't see the far side signal and see WALK when they really have DONT WALK.

[roadfro]

As long as we are somewhat on the subject, did the three box pedestrian signal, as shown Figure 4E-1 of the MUTCD, ever get used anywhere?

I believe that particular example is meant for installations where a countdown display is added on to an existing two section pedestrian signal. It's doubtful any agency would put in three new units when you can install an all-in-one unit for cheaper.

[M3019C LPS20]

As long as we are somewhat on the subject, did the three box pedestrian signal, as shown Figure 4E-1 of the MUTCD, ever get used anywhere?

I have seen one in Madison WI, but all 3 in one vertical line: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.075424,-89.450953,3a,75y,7.72h,87.41t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbZ-poC9iZgdTS8qx5AH-Zg!2e0

The WALK and DONT WALK faces appear to be programmed-visibility heads there; the opposite corner of the intersection has one such setup as well and one new one with WALK and DONT WALK on top and timer on the bottom of only two heads, the type that is present elsewhere at the intersection.  The configuration of the intersection (with channelized left turns) evidently made it safest to hold over the programmed-visibility heads from the old signals (visible in older street view) so people wouldn't see the far side signal and see WALK when they really have DONT WALK.

Nice find. Those are 3M PV pedestrian signals.

[spooky]

I wonder, why are cities moving away from the two box pedestrian signals?

Short answer: cost.

Yes, but in conjunction with technology. The two box ped heads had different color lights for the different legends. Once it became possible to integrate the two symbols, there was no need for separate boxes.

[PHLBOS]

As long as we are somewhat on the subject, did the three box pedestrian signal, as shown Figure 4E-1 of the MUTCD, ever get used anywhere?

I have seen one in Madison WI, but all 3 in one vertical line: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.075424,-89.450953,3a,75y,7.72h,87.41t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbZ-poC9iZgdTS8qx5AH-Zg!2e0

During the early 80s, very experimental (& short-lived) 3-box pedestrian signal heads were on several traffic signals along Beacon St. in Brookline, MA.  The top & bottom box had the usual orange DONT WALK, white WALK messages but the middle box had a white DONT START message.

The middle signal would flash while the WALK signal was on (it was lit alone for a short period).  The flashing DONT START/steady WALK display combo was intended to be interpreted/treated the same way that a flashing DONT WALK display would on other pedestrian signals (pedestrians already in the crosswalk can continue but those on the sidewalk should not start crossing the street).

[Revive 755]

While other communities seem to make life easier and piggyback off of WisDOT standards, Madison seems to routinely give WisDOT the middle finger.

It seems to be a requirement for federal funding that local agencies use state standards/design as much as possible, but somehow the bigger agencies seem to get around this (Madison in Wisconsin, Chicago in Illinois)

[Pink Jazz]

It seems to be a requirement for federal funding that local agencies use state standards/design as much as possible, but somehow the bigger agencies seem to get around this (Madison in Wisconsin, Chicago in Illinois)

Here in the Phoenix area, Tempe and Goodyear mostly use CAID Industries modular traffic posts instead of the ADOT standard.  Also, many traffic posts installed 2005 or later in the City of Phoenix use straight mast arms instead of the curved ADOT standard, although more recently Phoenix has started to installed more ADOT-style masts in a few places.

[D-Dey65]

Slightly OT, has anyone here ever seen the traffic signals at the weigh stations along US 301 in Maryland? They look like pedestrian signals but with multiple boxes.

[D-Dey65]

Slightly OT, has anyone here ever seen the traffic signals at the weigh stations along US 301 in Maryland? They look like pedestrian signals but with multiple boxes.

Here's the example of what I'm talking about, people.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NB_US_301_MD;_Upper_Marlboro_Weigh_Station-3.jpg

[jakeroot]

As long as this thread's revived.

British Columbia is a huge mix of one- and two-box pedestrian signals. The MOT can't seem to make up their mind. For signalised junctions along BC-17 (the South Fraser Perimeter Road), single-box units were utilised (these were installed around 2013). However, at the more-recently completed BC-99/16 Ave interchange (completed in 2014), the two-box units were utilised. In the City of Vancouver, the single-box unit is preferred (and has been so for some time). The same could be said for Coquitlam, however, some newer intersections utilise the two-box units. I can't quite figure out what's going on.

Washington has been a long-time user of the single-box unit. I'm not aware of any two-box units.

[jakeroot]

Slightly OT, has anyone here ever seen the traffic signals at the weigh stations along US 301 in Maryland? They look like pedestrian signals but with multiple boxes.

Here's the example of what I'm talking about, people.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NB_US_301_MD;_Upper_Marlboro_Weigh_Station-3.jpg

The only unusual adaptation of pedestrian signal heads, that I've been made aware of, has been California's use of them to indicate when a ramp meter is being used:



OT Interesting fact: The image above, shown on Caltrans' website, shows the former onramp to Hwy 1 in Port Coquitlam, BC, the only ramp meter ever used in BC (removed about four years ago).

[roadfro]

The only unusual adaptation of pedestrian signal heads, that I've been made aware of, has been California's use of them to indicate when a ramp meter is being used:

Nevada uses these as well. They're not in the MUTCD and FHWA does not like them–preference is for the static warning sign (introduced in 2009 MUTCD) with flashing beacon.

[freebrickproductions]

Slightly OT, has anyone here ever seen the traffic signals at the weigh stations along US 301 in Maryland? They look like pedestrian signals but with multiple boxes.

Here's the example of what I'm talking about, people.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NB_US_301_MD;_Upper_Marlboro_Weigh_Station-3.jpg

That's a 3M signal with a bunch of sections for the weigh station!

[US 89]

The only unusual adaptation of pedestrian signal heads, that I've been made aware of, has been California's use of them to indicate when a ramp meter is being used:

I believe that also used to be used in Utah at least at one interchange. I have no idea where it was, but I feel like I remember that. Utah certainly doesn't use that anymore, favoring the static sign with flashing beacons, as roadfro mentioned above.

[Ian]

The only unusual adaptation of pedestrian signal heads, that I've been made aware of, has been California's use of them to indicate when a ramp meter is being used:

I believe that also used to be used in Utah at least at one interchange. I have no idea where it was, but I feel like I remember that. Utah certainly doesn't use that anymore, favoring the static sign with flashing beacons, as roadfro mentioned above.

California, much like Nevada and Utah, are also shedding away from the "METER ON" ped signal in favor of the static sign/flashing beacon combo.

As far as other uses of the 16-inch pedestrian signals, I've seen municipalities in New Jersey use them for transit signals, where bar indications are used. Green = vertical bar, yellow = 45 degree angle bar, and red = horizontal bar. Here's an example in Camden...

https://goo.gl/maps/f2oVKqieKZK2

[jakeroot]

The only unusual adaptation of pedestrian signal heads, that I've been made aware of, has been California's use of them to indicate when a ramp meter is being used:

Nevada uses these as well. They're not in the MUTCD and FHWA does not like them–preference is for the static warning sign (introduced in 2009 MUTCD) with flashing beacon.

No surprise Nevada would use them too! They're kind of "California-lite".

Oregon, as far as I know, is still installing small VMS displays to alert drivers to active meters. Not sure what message is displayed, though. Washington has been using the static warning sign with flashing beacon for a while now.

[steviep24]

NYSDOT used two section ped signals for decades at least in region 4. It would have been interesting if they went to a three section head when countdown timers were introduced.